I was hoping to hear your thoughts.
Anyways, I get what you are saying. I am not saying that is why, just the only thing I can think of that Vince is seeing. Heenan and Sherri were great at getting talent over and after awhile, they just became over because of what they did for previous. People point to Paul Heyman. He added to the story, sold Brock, got involved when the story called for it. I understand and AGREE that the story overrides the wrestling. But when the bell rings, there is a match that needs to take place. I got to see Cornette, Heenan, Akbar, some really good ones.
Stacey Keibler is one that sticks in my mind. Hot, but completely overshadowed who she was with. She didn't add credibility or threat or anything. She was just some chick with Test. Heyman was an X-factor; part of the story. He had expertise and knew how to handle his client in a cut-throat business. This seemed to be a trend with all of the great managers. They let their guy work the match, and added to the story by jumping when the time was right. In any story there is a right time to insert a character.
Triple H had some good matches with Flair in his corner. Flair wasn't the best but was good. I really liked Armondo A. Estrada. He may not have been great, but added some depth to Umaga. When Umaga was in the ring he took care of business. Estrada was there if Umaga started having trouble and to advertise to you "Look at this guy! The Samoan Bulldozer!" Heck, Lita gave Edge a sex element to his Rated R gimmick. Yet Edge built some good rivalries even with Lita at his side.
Heenan did overshadow some of his guys. But let's be honest, when you have an army like Heenan's, not everyone was going to shine. Vince added to Taker's credibility. His story against Austin was him aligning himself with Austin's biggest threat. But Taker and Austin established their own rivalry within the McMahon/Austin rivalry. McMahon/Austin gave birth to something else. Paul Bearer vs Taker gave birth to Mankind/Taker and Kane/Taker. Great managers produced something new. These guys had their own matches with the managers inteceding at moments that kept the story going and giving it an extra element but allowed for the two guys in the ring to build their own story. The story became the two guys in the ring trying to settle some difference (pride, championship, personal issues). Stacey I don't think was ever going to produce anything like that. I guess that is what I mean by taking away from the match. They needed to add to the story being told (yes even within the ring) but by being an element; not the star. The manager may start out being the star, but when the story is finished, the idea (or at least in my view) is that you know who is doing battle in "the fight scene."
I would love to see the WWE make some talent watch the great managers to learn it. But I don't fully understand Vince's reasoning for abandoning the idea; especially with guys like Heyman, Flair and Estrada. That is what I see managers as and I miss those days. I just wonder if it is a lost art.
It was reported that Vince took away Daivari from The Great Khali, because they felt like he "took away from the Great Khali's performance".
To that I reply ??????
If anyone needs a manager, it is The Great Khali. I am glad they did pair him up with Ranjin Singh, but you can tell that they tell today's managers basically "Not to do anything at ringside. Just stand there. Don't interact with the audience. And if ... IF ... you are lucky, then you might be able to interfere in a match once every several months."
The managers were part of the match performance back in the good old days ... even before the Attitude Era. Even though I love the Attitude Era in terms of programming content, this was essentially the Era in which WWE began to eliminate the concept of ringside managers. They replaced all the managers with just female Valets.
Here are some of the managers who I enjoyed, so you can get an idea of what I like in the managers. For the characters on this list, I enjoyed their personalities, thought their frequency of interference was just right, and nor do I think took away from matches in a negative way.
1) Jimmy Hart
2) Bobby Heenan
3) Paul Heyman
4) Slick
5) Ric Flair
6) Mr. Fuji
7) Paul Bearer
8) Clarence Mason -- this one may surprise people, so I'll elaborate. I think the guy had tremendous potential. He was a great talker on the mic when he started out as Cornette's lawyer, and began managing Crush. Had a great angle where he stole Bulldog and Owen Hart away from Jim Cornette by tricking Cornette he was signing papers to press assault and battery charges against Jose Lothario, but in reality stole the WWE Tag Team Champions from Cornette. But they watered him down when they put him in the NOD, and let Faarroq do all the talking, instead. That essentially ruined the guy.
So, you can see by that list, that I like a nice mixture. I like managers who can exhibit personality at ringside, but isn't hollering or screaming or interfering every time you turn around, to the point where it becomes a hindrance, in a bad way.
People who I thought were lousy managers who were obnoxious at ringside, in a bad way ... OR were simply lousy managers ... (in no particular order):
1) Sensational Sherri- waaaay too much interference in the matches.
2) Jim Cornette- yes, you read that name right. Despite the fact he may be regarded as one of the best managers of all time, I did not care for Cornette. Jim Cornette was the definition of someone who overacted. He was faaaar too comical and his facial expressions were ridiculous, because of the over-acting. He was just way too over-the-top and you couldn't take the guy seriously at all. In his interviews, he routinely cut intense promos, that were well-written ... but they became boring hearing them week after week after week.
3) Harvey Wippleman- absolutely terrible at cutting promos. Had horrendously cheap outfits, which made him look like a second-rate manager. Was not creative in anything he did. Used generic soundbites almost every time he spoke.
4) Bill Alfonso- loved the "call it down the middle gimmick" ... but the whistle infuriated the Hell out of me, to the point where I couldn't even concentrate watching the match.
5) Ted Dibiase- definition of someone who over-shadowed his talent. As a matter of fact, his theme music played instead of the theme music of the wrestlers he managed. His promos as a manager were not very good. He couldn't take bumps because he wasn't physically able to. He was just a terribly disappointing manager ... surprisingly bad from someone regarded as one of the best heels in the history of wrestling.
6) Lita- added nothing to the matches whatsoever. She got everyone to chant "****" at her during each match, and that was about it. Only reason she got over was because of something she did in her personal life that was turned incorporated into an angle.
7) Stacy Keibler- I agree was also useless at ringside. She did her spots. But she didn't talk whatsoever. She was just there essentially to stare at.
To your closing comment, I don't think it's a lost art. I think it's just Vince McMahon being cheap and not wanting to pay people to stand at ringside or send them on the road to interfere. So, he's changed the perception of managers so that they should only go to people who "need them". Hell, some guys still need managers on the current roster, but don't have managers.
But what Vince essentially did is removed a key component of the entertainment of the matches.
There was nothing like seeing a good manager interfere in a match, then get the Hell beat out of him after the match was over ... to the delight of the crowd.
