Wrestling fans. Love them or hate they, they pay the bills.

[Navi]

I've been seeing a lot of animosity towards wrestling fans lately here on the site. This started around the Rumble when Reigns got booed out of the ring. Back then it was mostly DB fans who got the brunt of the blame, but now it seems that all fans are being tarred with the same brush.

The WWE is a highly interactive sport. Fans pay their money, show up with their signs and their voices. They cheer who they like, and boo who they don't. Since when has this been a bad thing? It's been happening for years, but only since Reigns has received backlash it seems to be not the thing to do. If you boo or cheer certain wrestlers you're accusing of hijacking the show. Or worse yet telling the WWE who you want to see pushed and who you don't. Well as a fans of this sport isn't that the way we tell them?

Wrestlers themselves encourage fans to cheer or boo. Look at Hogan he goes from side to side, putting his hand up to his ear to hear the cheers. Miz raises his arms get's booed, and then Mizdow does the same thing to get the cheers, it's part of the act. But some don't want fans to say anything at all. They want fans to sit quietly and be respectable and not ruin the show for everyone else, even though those same people are most likely not sitting there quietly themselves.

Can you picture a RAW where no one said anything. Wrestlers who normally get cheered, would instead get a polite round of applause, and those who get booed would be greeted with silence? Part of the show is the audience whether some like it or not. A vocal crowd comes across on TV and gets us watching at home thinking that sometimes the show is better than it actually is. A dead crowd can ruin the best matches and they come across horribly on TV.

Fans going to these shows should use their discretion and not chant "CM PUNK" the guy hasn't been there for over a year, but if they want to cheer for one wrestler they like, and boo another, then who is anyone to say they can't?

 

[laodaron]

This is loaded with false dichotomies and logical fallacies. I realize that you LOATHE that I disagree with you, but I'im going to anyway.

Wrestling fans aren't the problem. Wrestling fans that think that they're entitled to run the product are the problem. Wrestling fans that boo the hero and cheer the bad guy are the problem. Wrestling fans that believe that their $14.99 for a nosebleed ticket gives them a pass to be an asshole is the problem.

You don't have to like Roman Reigns, for instance. You don't have to think that has has a chance in hell at longevity in the company. But you do have to respect everyone else that's at the shows. You owe other fans the respect to either cheer a face or shut up. You owe the other competitors in the ring the respect to cheer or boo respectively.

No one wants the fans to sit silently. Logical people want fans to stop thinking they're actually a part of the show. Every major superstar has said it, they basically hate the modern wrestling crowd. Cheering for Michael Cole during a match. Chanting CM Punk intentionally at AJ. Booing Reigns. Cheering Brock. I'd rather listen to 10 hours of Michael Cole and JBL on commentary than listen to one more Philly crowd.

 

[CharlesKane]

I agree chanting CM Punk at AJ or anyone else for that matter is disrespectful and shouldn't happen.

But cheering or booing the guys in the ring is your right whether they are face or heel. People can and do like different things from their entertainment. It'It's sports entertainment, but it is meant to resemble a sport. If you go to a boxing match no one gets mad if you cheer or boo Mayweather because that is your right.

 

[laodaron]

Wrestling isn't boxing. Wrestling has more in common with your local high school theater production than boxing. Using that comparison is illogical.

But, why do you think that 1 person that bought a ticket has the right to ruin the show for another person that bought a ticket?

 

[CharlesKane]

Wrestling isn't boxing. Wrestling has more in common with your local high school theater production than boxing. Using that comparison is illogical.

But, why do you think that 1 person that bought a ticket has the right to ruin the show for another person that bought a ticket?

Then neither of them should cheer or boo out of respect for the other.

And no, it's not a play, it's not meant to be a story only, it is a simulated sport. Sports have audiences that don't agree. Hell, plays have audiences that don't agree, one person may see Shylock from the Merchant of Venice as a horrible character that gets what he deserves, another might look at how he was persecuted in Venice for being a Jew and completely understand and agree with his actions against Antonio (the representation on his persecution)

 

[Stone Cold Tea]

Wrestling isn't boxing. Wrestling has more in common with your local high school theater production than boxing. Using that comparison is illogical.

But, why do you think that 1 person that bought a ticket has the right to ruin the show for another person that bought a ticket?

I don't agree with people chanting stupid shit like 'Cm Punk' or other irrelevant shit as that is a piss take. You can't tell people who they can and can't cheer for though. These people paid the price of admission so let them cheer who they want. They're ruining that show for the other person who bought a ticket? Well sorry that everyone's opinion in the audience isn't the same and that they all aren't eating up the shit that gets served sometimes. If I went to a show and Hulk Hogan came out i'd boo. You know why? Because I don't like him. I'd cheer the shit out of Triple H as I think he's a badass. Am I ruining the show for people because I'm expressing my opinion? If I am then fuck them they're going to have to cheer for their guy louder.

Wrestling has nothing in common with theatre with kayfabe been dead. You can't expect people to fully suspend their belief when so much backstage news is out there these days.

 

[laodaron]

Holy shit, no. Movies, plays, musicals, TV shows, they almost all have clear cut good guys and bad guys. Feeling sympathy for the bad guy doesn't make him not the bad guy. It makes him a sympathetic bad guy.

Wrestling is built around that. Booing John Cena was edgy in 2005, but in 2015, it's pathetic and disgusting. The professional wrestlers dedicate their lives to putting on a performance, NOT fighting, but acting and enduring dangerous spots to appease a crowd. When that crowd chants "This is awesome" or boos the wrong guy for the purposes of being edgy, they're disrespecting the entire craft. The Wrestling world is better without those people than it is with them.

When a wrestler is booked as a heel, and they get cheers, it means that they fucked up. They spend their lives honing that craft, and when you try to be cool and try to fuck up the experience for those groups of 12 year olds cause you're so edgy, you're also casting doubt and shame onto the wrestler. Cena might have risen above it, but you can clearly see the faces of wrestlers that get the wrong reaction from the fans, and you can tell, they loathe those fans that ruin their gimmick.

Fans today just think that they're so special since they can read results on the internet. They think they understand the backstage politics. They think that the know what a push is, or a burial is. Those fans are fucking stupid. If you can't watch a WWE Monday Night Raw without thinking to yourself, I really want to have an edgy opposite reaction for that guy, maybe you should reconsider being a fan.

I love Brock Lesnar. He's one of the greatest WWE stars of all time. But if I'm at a live show, and his music hits, out of respect for him and for the craft and for the entire process, I'm gonna boo the shit out of him. Because that's how it works, and THAT'S what helps the product.

 

[SoulTrain4]

The problem is that WWE fans have positioned themselves as the babyfaces and WWE management as the heels. They believe that everything WWE does victimizes or shows contempt for them. WWE tells you not to spend $60+ on a PPV when you only have to pay $10 for the Network and assholes are crying that Vince shows contempt for those still using PPV. The flavor of the month babyface they like isn't being pushed and assholes start crying that Vince doesn't listen to the fans. People want to go to the show and chant crazy stuff, bring huge signs etc so they take them away or send people out and "OMG Vince hates the fans!"

This leads these fools to going online spewing vitriol towards the company and fostering resentment for everything and then trying to derail the product. Anything they do it's argued they could do it better, anyone they don't push is great and everyone they do sucks. It's been so many times that these same people get caught up in their own hypocrisy it's ridiculous.

These same boards, sites and podcasts that absolutes hated Alberto Del Rio, said he was boring, said he sucked, said he "pushed down their throats" are now all over his nutsack because he left. He literally only changed his name, his moveset and virtually everything else is the same and well now he's hot property but that's because of the anti-WWE sentiments all over the web. That's just the latest in many times this has happened.

These people think they get to book the show, they NEVER get to book the show EVER. They never have and probably never will. There have been an endless number of names who were very over and never made main event or world champion because the company they worked for had other designs, other plans, other talent they wanted to showcase. This isn't a WWE thing, this is a wrestling thing period, the promoters choose who wins and loses, they chose who main events and who doesn't, this is unanimous in the industry, whether you like it or not is another question all together.

These people these days though, they just think they are entitled to pick everything from who is in the match to what kind of match to what event it takes place at to who wins and that's just not the case. Second guessing decisions is fine, it's cool having an opinion but when you angry that your fantasy booking idea isn't being used then you just a selfish dick, it's not always about you and what you want, it's not always about what one section of the crowd wants, it's not always about what management wants either, it's about finding balance and that's something all these people seem to be against, because they want what they want right now or they will blog or fire up their little podcast and proclaim WWE hates the fans and is anti-wrestling, yada yada. It's ridiculous but this is what we have now.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Crowds will do what crowds will do......or, more aptly, they do what they think everyone else is doing. Sure, there are fans who have minds of their own, but many more go along with what they think is "in."

A few people can start a chant and have the entire damn arena taking it up (ever been to a football game in the days of the "wave?"). And even while I've caught hell in the past on this forum for saying it, I maintain WWE has people planted in the crowd to start some of the chants, nudging people in the direction they want them to go. For example, during Hulk Hogan's HOF ceremony, do you really believe the "One more match!" chant started spontaneously? C'mon now.

As for the crowd themselves, I sometimes wish they'd play along with the action occurring in front of them, instead of treating the whole spectacle as a joke. On Raw, we watch Seth Rollins get slammed into the barrier outside the ring.....slammed hard.....and as he rises, the fans around are smiling and laughing, doing their best to touch him, while he's working. I always try to ignore those at ringside in order to keep my sense of suspended belief.

Do I blame the fans for this? No, because WWE re-wrote the rules for this type of thing when they declared themselves no longer in the realm of competition, and started defining their product as sports entertainment.

Before that, fans cheered the good guys and booed the bad guys. In many ways, it's better today because the characters have more complexity to them......everything isn't black & white; there are heels who sometimes do good things and faces that sometimes do evil.......so how can we expect wrestling fans to behave as in the old days? Just because I wish the fans would pretend these guys are really hurting each other is no reason for them to do it.

As Navi says, the fans pay for their admission, they can act however they want, as long as they're not hurting anyone else.

I guess.

 

[CharlesKane]

Holy shit, no. Movies, plays, musicals, TV shows, they almost all have clear cut good guys and bad guys. Feeling sympathy for the bad guy doesn't make him not the bad guy. It makes him a sympathetic bad guy.

Wrestling is built around that. Booing John Cena was edgy in 2005, but in 2015, it's pathetic and disgusting. The professional wrestlers dedicate their lives to putting on a performance, NOT fighting, but acting and enduring dangerous spots to appease a crowd. When that crowd chants "This is awesome" or boos the wrong guy for the purposes of being edgy, they're disrespecting the entire craft. The Wrestling world is better without those people than it is with them.

When a wrestler is booked as a heel, and they get cheers, it means that they fucked up. They spend their lives honing that craft, and when you try to be cool and try to fuck up the experience for those groups of 12 year olds cause you're so edgy, you're also casting doubt and shame onto the wrestler. Cena might have risen above it, but you can clearly see the faces of wrestlers that get the wrong reaction from the fans, and you can tell, they loathe those fans that ruin their gimmick.

Fans today just think that they're so special since they can read results on the internet. They think they understand the backstage politics. They think that the know what a push is, or a burial is. Those fans are fucking stupid. If you can't watch a WWE Monday Night Raw without thinking to yourself, I really want to have an edgy opposite reaction for that guy, maybe you should reconsider being a fan.

I love Brock Lesnar. He's one of the greatest WWE stars of all time. But if I'm at a live show, and his music hits, out of respect for him and for the craft and for the entire process, I'm gonna boo the shit out of him. Because that's how it works, and THAT'S what helps the product.

Well if only you were there in the 90 ' s, to stop people from cheering that heel Stone Cold and stop them from vs booing Rocky Maivia, you could have really helped the business by setting it back from it's most successful era of all time.

If Roman is meant to be the guy, getting booed may be the best thing for him, it was for The Rock.

 

[OYDK]

It doesn't really matter to me who the fans cheer or boo tbh... the thing that really bugs me are the chants. It's the mentality that, "We're so smart, we're going to shit on everything before it happens because we know it's going to happen." Off the top of my head I can think of:

"Goldberg" directed at Ryback; "LOD" to Ascension; "Albert" to Tensai; "Husky Harris" to Bray Wyatt; "Micheal Cole/JBL/Macho Man/Jerry" at any match that doesn't include a shit-ton of spots; "C.M. Punk" at every Diva segment; "What" to almost every promo at this point; "We are awesome"; "You can't wrestle"... you get the picture.

Yes fans have always cheered and booed who they liked, but never has a fanbase disrespected and buried a roster of superstars like this era's has. It's one thing to make a decision about a wrestler after watching them for a few weeks, it's completely another to try and bury them on their debut based off something you misread on the internet.

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

I love Brock Lesnar. He's one of the greatest WWE stars of all time. But if I'm at a live show, and his music hits, out of respect for him and for the craft and for the entire process, I'm gonna boo the shit out of him. Because that's how it works, and THAT'S what helps the product.

So you cheer for guys you may not like, and boo guys you do like, because of how the WWE has decided to present them to you.

That is absolutely pathetic. What a nice little mark you are.

 

[laodaron]

So you cheer for guys you may not like, and boo guys you do like, because of how the WWE has decided to present them to you.

That is absolutely pathetic. What a nice little mark you are.

Fucking Christ. No. I cheer Cena. I boo Lesnar. I cheer Reigns. I boo Rollins. I cheer Bryan. I boo HHH. Yes, I'm a mark. Because I care more about the success of the WWE than I do about trying to look cool and edgy to the pre-teen fans.

 

[chuckmdubya]

It seems the modern fan either doesn't understand or doesn't agree with the classical spirit of pro wrestling. Back in the day, you watched the program, you knew it was staged, but you didn't care. There was no need to porvoe the obvious. When Ultimate Warrior beat Hogan, you didn't boo warrior. He was a good guy too, a fan favorite, you didn't boo the good guys, whether their gimmick was lame or not. We accepted the entertainment for what it was and we either liked it, or we watched something else.

Fans simply just know too much for their own good now. All the way through the attitude era, we never even knew what a bump, a potato, or a burial was. Hell, we used to say good guy and bad guy, we didn't know the terms heel and face. And those guys that we only saw one time, getting demolished by a famous wrestler, we didn't know they were called jobbers. And of course, when you know half the story, you think you know it all, and fans know too much for their own good, but they don't know near enough to be handling the booking the way many think they could.

Now a days, every body wants to "bust" WWE. They want to watch a match or show and point out the flaws. Then we will go online and talk about it, attempting to prove to people we don't even know our own vast knowledge of the sport, and talk about how much better our ideas are than those of WWE. During the attitude era, we did the opposite. We'd say, I know its a show, but that was real, the NWO really is taking over wcw, Vince Mcmahon really hates Austin because he's such a rebel. Mick Foley really is taking those falls and chair shots (ok that one was real, lol)

The fans should be loud and crazy at the show, it's the only sport where the fans control what they do. But they need to have self control and respect the people putting on the show for them. What happens to a guy that's busting out a magician, or the guy heckling the stand up comic? They get kicked out. We saw a bit of this the other day when the guys dressed as legends where asked to change, and the IWC and media attacked WWE for it. These guys weren't told to change because of something they did. They were told to change so it would not be a distraction. WWE now takes extra precaution with fan behavior probably because of all the CM Punk chants, the booing of those who don't deserve to be booed, the threats to "hijack raw, and hashtag cancel wwe network.

So fans, be careful when you ridicule and basically threaten WWE, because the brand of entertainment we all like so much may changed forever if we don't appreciate it more.

 

[CharlesKane]

Fucking Christ. No. I cheer Cena. I boo Lesnar. I cheer Reigns. I boo Rollins. I cheer Bryan. I boo HHH. Yes, I'm a mark. Because I care more about the success of the WWE than I do about trying to look cool and edgy to the pre-teen fans.

Can you even fathom the possibility that the WWE may have a guy in the wrong position?

They did on Stone Cold they had no clue what to do with him so they made him a heel, they did on the Rock, they tried to get Rock over as the cartoon good guy with a family name and it was a disaster. Edge was hugely popular and a heel most of his career because Cena could only do the face side of a feud well. DX was originally a heel group to match up with the face Hart foundation.

 

[Stone Cold Tea]

Holy shit, no. Movies, plays, musicals, TV shows, they almost all have clear cut good guys and bad guys. Feeling sympathy for the bad guy doesn't make him not the bad guy. It makes him a sympathetic bad guy.

But in wrestling, in front of a live audience, not everybody is going to react the same or like the same thing

Wrestling is built around that. Booing John Cena was edgy in 2005, but in 2015, it's pathetic and disgusting. The professional wrestlers dedicate their lives to putting on a performance, NOT fighting, but acting and enduring dangerous spots to appease a crowd. When that crowd chants "This is awesome" or boos the wrong guy for the purposes of being edgy, they're disrespecting the entire craft. The Wrestling world is better without those people than it is with them.

When it's for the sake of been edgy, yes I agree. My point is it comes down to personal preference.

When a wrestler is booked as a heel, and they get cheers, it means that they fucked up.
They spend their lives honing that craft, and when you try to be cool and try to fuck up the experience for those groups of 12 year olds cause you're so edgy, you're also casting doubt and shame onto the wrestler. Cena might have risen above it, but you can clearly see the faces of wrestlers that get the wrong reaction from the fans, and you can tell, they loathe those fans that ruin their gimmick.

So is it the wrestlers fault? Or the fans?

Fans today just think that they're so special since they can read results on the internet. They think they understand the backstage politics. They think that the know what a push is, or a burial is. Those fans are fucking stupid. If you can't watch a WWE Monday Night Raw without thinking to yourself, I really want to have an edgy opposite reaction for that guy, maybe you should reconsider being a fan.

People should reconsider being a fan because they like the bad guy? You do realise there is a multitude of reasons that wrestlers get booed such as : Over saturation....Shit gimmick.... etc

I love Brock Lesnar. He's one of the greatest WWE stars of all time. But if I'm at a live show, and his music hits, out of respect for him and for the craft and for the entire process, I'm gonna boo the shit out of him. Because that's how it works, and THAT'S what helps the product.

So your just going to eat up the shit that's served?

At the end of the day when you have 10000 plus people in an arena everybody isn't going to have the same opinion. You think those people should leave the arena that don't like the good guy?

 

[laodaron]

But in wrestling, in front of a live audience, not everybody is going to react the same or like the same thing



When it's for the sake of been edgy, yes I agree. My point is it comes down to personal preference.



So is it the wrestlers fault? Or the fans?




People should reconsider being a fan because they like the bad guy? You do realise there is a multitude of reasons that wrestlers get booed such as : Over saturation....Shit gimmick.... etc




So your just going to eat up the shit that's served?

At the end of the day when you have 10000 plus people in an arena everybody isn't going to have the same opinion. You think those people should leave the arena that don't like the good guy?

None of those things matter. The only things that matter when it comes to booing or cheering should be face or heel. If they aren't good, shut the fuck up. If you don't like them or they're oversaturated, sit down and shut up. But if they are a good heel, and you think they're going a great job, and you cheer them, you're a fucking prick.

And we aren't talking about 1996. We aren't talking about Stone Cold or The Rock. We're not even talking about creative decisions. We're talking about wrestlers and fans. If you're intentionally disruptive, you're the problem with wrestling.

 

[Wald]

None of those things matter. The only things that matter when it comes to booing or cheering should be face or heel. If they aren't good, shut the fuck up. If you don't like them or they're oversaturated, sit down and shut up. But if they are a good heel, and you think they're going a great job, and you cheer them, you're a fucking prick.

WWE constantly tells us to boo or cheer whoever we want though. They've said loads of times in the past that sometimes what the fans want is the way they realise they have to go with a character, Steve Austin is the obvious pick of who the fans turned face but you also Hulk Hogan in WCW, Bret Hart being turned heel in WWF and countless others where the fans rejected what the company wanted. Without the fans turning on Rocky Maivia we might never have gotten the Rock.

I don't really understand why you get so angry about wrestling fans booing guys to be honest, I don't think there has ever been a time where fans agreed on one character. Back in the 1980s, before your hated IWC even existed, large sections of fans cheered Ric Flair and the Four Horsemen, hell you even have guys like Triple H saying Flair was his inspiration to get in to the business and was his favourite wrestler at that time. Is he a 'fucking prick' for not hating Flair like he was supposed to?

 

[laodaron]

WWE constantly tells us to boo or cheer whoever we want though. They've said loads of times in the past that sometimes what the fans want is the way they realise they have to go with a character, Steve Austin is the obvious pick of who the fans turned face but you also Hulk Hogan in WCW, Bret Hart being turned heel in WWF and countless others where the fans rejected what the company wanted. Without the fans turning on Rocky Maivia we might never have gotten the Rock.

I don't really understand why you get so angry about wrestling fans booing guys to be honest, I don't think there has ever been a time where fans agreed on one character. Back in the 1980s, before your hated IWC even existed, large sections of fans cheered Ric Flair and the Four Horsemen, hell you even have guys like Triple H saying Flair was his inspiration to get in to the business and was his favourite wrestler at that time. Is he a 'fucking prick' for not hating Flair like he was supposed to?

I'm going to assume that you're not stupid and can understand the difference between respect and love a wrestler, and also booing or cheering them, depending on their gimmick.

Otherwise, there's never been a time where "fans" have felt so entitled to shit all over an entire program, to ruin live shows, and to basically try to run the company out of business.

 

[Wald]

Go back and look at those Triple H interviews where he talks about cheering Ric. Hell go look at any of dozens of interviews where wrestlers talk about cheering Roddy Piper as a kid or else just look at how WWE have agreed with fans in turning Bret heel, Austin face, Rock heel etc.

This type of thing has always happened, it's not an IWC creation, and is actively encouraged by the WWE so I'd get over it if I were you because it isn't going away.

 

[CharlesKane]

If and this is a BIG IF, everyone cheered the faces and booed the heels like you suggest, should they also stop selling merchandise advertising the heels because what kind of good fan would wear a heel ' s t shirt?

 

[Stone Cold Tea]

None of those things matter. The only things that matter when it comes to booing or cheering should be face or heel. If they aren't good, shut the fuck up. If you don't like them or they're oversaturated, sit down and shut up. But if they are a good heel, and you think they're going a great job, and you cheer them, you're a fucking prick.

And we aren't talking about 1996. We aren't talking about Stone Cold or The Rock. We're not even talking about creative decisions. We're talking about wrestlers and fans. If you're intentionally disruptive, you're the problem with wrestling.

No they shouldn't have to sit down and shut the fuck up because they paid their money they've followed the product they can voice their own fucking opinions.

If their a good heel and they're doing a great job then they will be getting boos.

If they're a heel and they're getting cheered then they aren't doing a great job. That's what you said in your previous post. Have you thought that maybe, just maybe, wrestling has evolved. Don't think about it just accept that it has.

 

[laodaron]

No they shouldn't have to sit down and shut the fuck up because they paid their money they've followed the product they can voice their own fucking opinions.

If their a good heel and they're doing a great job then they will be getting boos.

If they're a heel and they're getting cheered then they aren't doing a great job. That's what you said in your previous post. Have you thought that maybe, just maybe, wrestling has evolved. Don't think about it just accept that it has.

So, Brock and Heyman aren't good heels? Cena isn't a good face? Get over yourself.

Wrestling has evolved. It's the trogolodyte morons that cheer the wrong people or boo the faces or chant Michael Cole during a Divas match that haven't evolved.

 

[Stone Cold Tea]

So, Brock and Heyman aren't good heels? Cena isn't a good face? Get over yourself.

I never said that. I said some people like heels so will cheer them. What is so hard to understand? In fact going by your logic in this debate Brock Lesnar and Paul Heyman aren't good heels because they get cheered. It was you that said if a Heel gets cheered then they fucked up.

Wrestling has evolved. It's the trogolodyte morons that cheer the wrong people or boo the faces or chant Michael Cole during a Divas match that haven't evolved.

Since this whole chanting thing is a new concept, that would not make them the troglodyte. Your outdated concept of sitting there and eating the shit your fed, cheering faces, booing the bad guy, makes you a troglodyte.

I suggest it's you that needs to get over yourself and not be so angry about people voicing their opinions on a product that is built around THE FUCKING AUDIENCE.

 

[JoeMallard]

Fucking Christ. No. I cheer Cena. I boo Lesnar. I cheer Reigns. I boo Rollins. I cheer Bryan. I boo HHH. Yes, I'm a mark. Because I care more about the success of the WWE than I do about trying to look cool and edgy to the pre-teen fans.

So when Rollins does a breathtaking move that is rarely seen on the main shows, like Royal Rumble, the fans are supposed to boo because he's a heel? If something impresses you, you have every right to do what you want to do, without an ignorant asshole, like you, telling us what we should do!