WrestleMania III Main Event.

[ECW Sandman]

So everyone who is Old School knows about the Hogan Andre match at WrestleMania III and how it ended but my question is do you think there would be a WrestleMania XXVIII if Andre did not turn heel on Hulk Hogan on The Piper Pit ripping Hogan's T-Shirt and Crucifix off of him and setting up the biggest match in not just WWF history but in wrestling history.



Your Thoughts.

 

[agentmichaelscarn]

Yeah I do, I seriously think that it didn't matter who Hogan faced, as long as he faced somebody and that place would have sold out because the fact of the matter is that Hogan was that over at that time. Obviously Andre was the perfect opponent, but Hogan was so over at that time he could've faced somebody like John Studd or anybody and I think the WWE could've hyped it enough to sell out. Because if I'm not mistaken I think alot of those tickets were sold before the match was even announced, I know my Dad got the tix for him and my brother before Andre turned. I just think alot of fans and wrestlers don't realize or don't give enough credit to Hogan and how popular he is. When you have a face as popular as he was it really doesn't matter who the heel is, people are going to pay to see him.

So basically what I'm saying is that no maybe there might not have been 93,000+ people to watch that event(but then again there may have been) but there still would have been a crap load regardless of who Hogan faced and there would still be a Wrestlemania now regardless of whether Andre was in that event or not, as long as Hogan was around.

 

[thebarber]

hhahahahahahahaha of course Wrestlemania 28 would be happening. Agreed with above, it didnt matter that Hulk beat Andre, Hogan was MASSIVELY OVER eith the world at that stage, and they would have sold 78000 tickets regardless(93,000 is an inflated figure from WWE).Paul Orndorff was down injured at the time which was unfortunate and why he missed the ppv otherwise he would have been the next best alternative. If Andre was not on the scene or creative was different, Vince would have pished somebody else in mid-late 1986 to be built up as Hogans opponent. In late 1986 Hogan vs Orndorff was doing massive business, and they sold a then outdoor record of 67000 to a show in Canada. Orndorff appeared in the SNME battle royale 15 days before Mania 3 and was eliminated by Hogan, but that show was taped over 4 weeks beforehand. Point is, if they had gone with Hogan vs Orndorff one on one for the last time and no disqualificatiopn, that would have been enough to sell the card. But Orndorff wouldnt have been able to participate thus Mania 3 could have become a clusterfuck of epic proportions...or Orndorff may have wrestled injured for the mega payday and push then sold the injury as happening in the match. As Mania was booked months to a year in advance in those earlier years, it is hard to know who Vince would have slotted in for the main event. I think he would have looked to bring in somebody from the NWA but again at short notice and guys under contract, that wopuldnt have been an easy feat. In the end, history suggests the right thing happened, but Andre was not the drawcard in 1987 that WWE would have you believe.

 

[Headman]

If the show would have failed horribly there probably wouldn't have been a wrestlemania 4. This was WWF's Superbowl III. Had the Colts won Superbowl III it probably wouldn't have caught on as the AFL would have been seen as a lesser league. Yes, Orndorff was pretty over but as stated before he was injured at the time (Or atleast billed as injured). Had there been no Orndorff it would have likely been Jake "The Snake" Roberts who was getting such loud pops that they had to turn him heel in fear of him out popping Hogan. With that said, neither of these two were the draw that Andre was. Andre / Hogan was huge and if you're not old enough to remember it as it happened you probably won't understand how big a deal it was. Funny thing about Orndorff though. He was getting major pops on tv, but I don't recall anyone on the playground liking him too much. As I grew older I heard stories of how they turned him heel to protect Hogan (Kinda like Jake Roberts except I do remember him being really popular) but at the time he was just sorta there. I'm sure I just went to a strange school where Hogan, Andre, Roberts and Macho were all anyone cared about.

 

[thebarber]

Roberts didnt turn heel until mid 1991, when they set him to feud with Ultimate Warrior, well until Warrior vetoed the entire angle after Roberts turned. Roberts had just turned face before Mania 3 when Honkytonk Man blasted him with the guitar. I was around when 1987 was happening and yes as a kid I found it mesmerising, but to view it today, the match was pretty sloppy. Orndorff was legitimately injured, he had a bad arm injury from the steel cage match that they rave about from Jan 1987s Sat Night Main Event. He fought on with it hoping to make Mania. I know he was passed his best, but in March 1987, Harley Race would have been aninteresting opponent for Hogan, now knowing the history behind their backgrounds in the business. If again pushed that Race was Hogans equal, it could have been good. That Harley Race was booked in a quick squash over JYD on that card was pretty sad, considering how huge a name in the business he was pre WWE.

 

[Headman]

Roberts didnt turn heel until mid 1991, when they set him to feud with Ultimate Warrior, well until Warrior vetoed the entire angle after Roberts turned. Roberts had just turned face before Mania 3 when Honkytonk Man blasted him with the guitar. I was around when 1987 was happening and yes as a kid I found it mesmerising, but to view it today, the match was pretty sloppy. Orndorff was legitimately injured, he had a bad arm injury from the steel cage match that they rave about from Jan 1987s Sat Night Main Event. He fought on with it hoping to make Mania. I know he was passed his best, but in March 1987, Harley Race would have been aninteresting opponent for Hogan, now knowing the history behind their backgrounds in the business. If again pushed that Race was Hogans equal, it could have been good. That Harley Race was booked in a quick squash over JYD on that card was pretty sad, considering how huge a name in the business he was pre WWE.

You're right. I'm sorry I'm not in a correct state of mind at the moment (Flippin' back surgery). What I meant to say was they turned Roberts face because he was getting loud pops. All in all, my point was that Roberts was one of the most over guys at the time.

 

[thebarber]

yes agreed, Roberts and that snake were drawing well. What are your thoughts on Hulk Hogan vs Harley Race? I know back in 1987 Vince treated stars from other promotions like this was their first time in the business, never recognising other companies or titles held. Harley was a much better worker than Andre and would have been able to handle Hogan if he got too cute in the ring. And Harley would have had no problem doing the honours for Hogan knowing the subsequent payday ahead. The other thought I guess was Bruiser Brody. He was in Mexico or Peuto Rico in 1987, a year before he was murdered. Maybe if Vince nabbed him and turned him heel, he may have still been alive today with a run in WWE in 1987-1988

 

[Headman]

yes agreed, Roberts and that snake were drawing well. What are your thoughts on Hulk Hogan vs Harley Race? I know back in 1987 Vince treated stars from other promotions like this was their first time in the business, never recognising other companies or titles held. Harley was a much better worker than Andre and would have been able to handle Hogan if he got too cute in the ring. And Harley would have had no problem doing the honours for Hogan knowing the subsequent payday ahead. The other thought I guess was Bruiser Brody. He was in Mexico or Peuto Rico in 1987, a year before he was murdered. Maybe if Vince nabbed him and turned him heel, he may have still been alive today with a run in WWE in 1987-1988

If Race would have come into WWF with all of his NWA cred I would have marked even back then. I was living in the south at the time and the adults I knew who actually liked wrestling were serious about their NWA so I was very aware of Race. I don't think the kids were that behind him, and I don't think the goofy King persona helped either but there is the adult (smark me) who would have loved to see the Starcadian style match up of Hulk Hogan vs Harly Race in the main event of a Wrestlemania. But in truth, the WWF was a cartoon show even back then. Hogan vs Andre may not have been the best match, but you just couldn't put two bigger names on a bill board back then.

Brody is an interesting one. He just seems like the kind of guy Vince would want to keep as far from Hogan as humanly possible doesn't he? But still, Brody was awesome. What happened to him was a shame. He would have made a great member of the Heenan family.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

I think WWE would still be doing WM's today I am not sure if they would look the same. Some fans don't understand how huge it was when Andre laid down for Hogan. Andre doing the job elevated Hogan even higher than he was before the match. He looked invincible after that match.

In the end, history suggests the right thing happened, but Andre was not the drawcard in 1987 that WWE would have you believe.

Yes he was. People still paid money to see Andre. Plus what got Hogan really over the top was the fact that most casual fans didn't think Hogan had a chance. Andre is the one who made Hogan look legit. Sure Hogan was over but when he beat Andre he sort of became immortal. No pun intended.

As far as the talk of Brody goes, very bad idea. If he didn't like what Hogan was doing in the ring he would have went bat shit crazy on him. Plus in America he just wasn't a big enough name to main event a WM. Maybe if Vince built him up for a while it might have worked but Brody never wanted to stay in one place for too long.

 

[dd23beatlesfan1]

Would Wrestlemania, and ultimately the WWE not exist without the Andre/Hogan match at Wrestlemania III? Absolutely not. The WWE didn't really need Andre/Hogan at Wrestlemania III, to save Wrestlemania and the company. By 1987, the WWF was already one of the biggest phenomenons in American pop culture. They were already drawing big ratings on NBC with Saturday Night's Main Event. I believe Hulk Hogan's cartoon show was still airing, and Hulk Hogan was still a major pop culture icon, as were other wrestlers. The first Wrestlemania was the real "make or break" event for the company's history as well as Wrestlemania itself. If the first Wrestlemania had flopped that could've been the end of the WWE and the majority of us would probably not be wrestling fans. Even if Andre/Hulk never happened, WWE would still be going strong like it is today.

Would WWE still drew as big a house and made as much money on Wrestlemania III without Andre/Hogan being the main event? That I'm not so sure about. I believe that Hulk Hogan and the WWE were huge enough at that point that they could've put Hogan up against anybody and drew a big house, as Hogan and Paul Orndorff already drew a big house the previous summer in Canada. I do think that if they had had a final grudge match for the title between the two at Wrestlemania, that could've drawn as big as Hulk and Andre, because his feud with Mr. Wonderful did huge business. Along with Macho Man, Piper and Andre, his feud with Orndorff was his biggest feud of the 1980's.

But other than Paul Orndorff and Andre the Giant, I don't think anyone else up against Hogan would've drawn the 78,000 or 93,000 (whichever number you go with) house that the Hogan/Andre match did. Sure Jake Roberts was really over, but I don't think him and Hogan would've drawn as much as Hogan and Andre. While more serious, hardcore wrestling fans would've loved to have seen Bruiser Brody, Stan Hansen, or Harley Race go up against Hulk Hogan, your casual mainstream wrestling fans who got into it because of MTV, Mr. T, and Cyndi Lauper, etc. wouldn't have really cared near as much. In fact they probably wouldn't have even taken Harley Race seriously with the king gimmick. However if Vince had just let Bruiser and/or Stan Hansen be themselves, then they could've been considered serious threats to Hogan, especially Bruiser Brody, as he was a scary looking dude lol.

Macho Man Randy Savage was really over as well, however, I don't think a match between Hogan and Savage could've drawn 80-90,000 fans at that point in time, as their previous rivalry during 1986 was really more about just titles and one-upping the other. It wasn't near as personal as it would later get. Now if WWE had decided to have Wrestlemania V in a stadium in 1989, you bet Hogan and Savage could've drawn 80-90,000 fans. It might have even topped Andre/Hogan, I think.

While it's intriguing to think of possibilities for other opponents, I really don't think anyone, except maybe Paul Orndorff could've drawn 80-90,000 fans in the Pontiac Stadium with Hulk Hogan other than Andre the Giant. Andre the Giant was a pop culture phenomenon during the 1970's and early 1980's, when wrestling was very much a "cult" form of entertainment. So the older fans still loved and knew Andre. Andre helped draw that crowd, make no mistake about it.

 

[Grizzly0u812]

the thing about the main event with Hogan and Andrea Facing each other, was Andrea not undefeated for 15 years and Hogan did he not hold the title for what 4-5 years when he faced Andrea, if Hogan continued to face other guys and not give Andrea a match clearly people would start lobbying for it, that match had to happen to give Hogan creibiltiy in the sense how can you call yourself the champ if their is one guy who is 15 years undefeated and the size of Andrea, now if Hogan faced Andrea and lost what would that have done to his hype he would not be able to call himself the champ anymore and clearly the champ usually was the main event so Hogan would not be in the main event light which would mean one of two things, Hogan becomes a mid carder and maybe grab the Intercontenital belt or some how put the title back on him.

Everyone was after the champion, Hogan loses the title Hogan would not be champ and they would have to focus on the champ.

 

[The Brain]

If the show would have failed horribly there probably wouldn't have been a wrestlemania 4. This was WWF's Superbowl III. Had the Colts won Superbowl III it probably wouldn't have caught on as the AFL would have been seen as a lesser league.

Well said. It's hard for people to imagine today, but if WM3 wasn't as successful as it was there is a good chance mania would have just quietly died off. Sure it was the biggest event of the year for the WWF, but it hadn't established a legacy yet that made it a must see event. WM3 created that legacy. The WWF was in an experimental age with ppv and super shows. If they failed to draw there would be no reason to continue with them.

Did the main event have to be Hogan vs. Andre to be a success? Probably not. I'm sure the event could have been successful with another main event; just nowhere near as successful. While intriguing, Hogan vs. Roberts isn't even close to the blockbuster that Hogan vs. Andre was. Hogan vs. Race might have had a chance if Vince recognized who Race was before entering the WWF. He wasn't willing to do that and the middle aged guy with the crown wasn't a serious threat to the Hulkster. Savage is probably the only other guy that could have headlined such a big show with Hogan. He wasn't quite as over as he would be for their actual mania match two years later but he was over enough. If that happened though we wouldn't have gotten the other half of what made WM3 so famous; Savage vs. Steamboat.

Even though WM3 could have been successful and mania could still be alive today without Hogan vs. Andre, that was the match that had to happen to make mania what it has become.

 

[JJ15776]

First of all, let's debunk the "78,000" myth right now. The attendance was as stated - 93,173.

Back on topic, WrestleMania III had little impact on the long term viability of the WWF/WWE. Yes, there would have been a WrestleMania IV, V, and XXVIII without Andre. It was a huge, iconic moment, don't get me wrong. But if the WWF wanted Hogan vs. Race or Hogan vs. Roberts or Hogan vs. whoever to be a huge, iconic moment, it would have been. Look no further than WrestleMania VI as proof. Hulk Hogan vs. Ultimate Warrior became legendary because the WWF wanted it to. And if the WWF didn't have Hulk Hogan, somebody else would have been in his spot.

I'm not discounting the roles that Hogan and Andre played. It would likely not have been AS big without those two - but it still would have been very big, and the WWE and WrestleMania would certainly still be where they are today.

 

[lil bitch Kid]

Good discussion. I think that Mania 3 did set the bar, but not really for Mania 4 or 5, but moreso for the stadium Manias to come. I think that if Mania 3 had failed, it would have been a VERY long time before Vince would have gone for a Stadium again. Fact is that Manias 1 and 2 did good arena crowds. Could WWF have 'sold out' Pontiac without Hogan and Andre, maybe, but it would have taken something special. Fact is that Andre hadn't really been around that much prior to the build for the match. Yes, he was well known, even to the casual fan, but they could have gone another direction. Everything with that match had to do with the build up. People waited and waited for the 2 to get in the ring. WWE is currently trying to recreate that with Rock and Cena. I think anyone from Orndorff, to Savage to Snake, with the right build could have taken Andre's spot, and made for a better match. Let's remember that by no means was Hogan and Andre a technical masterpiece.

One big thing to consider is how different the landscape would have been for the next few years had they not gone with Hogan vs Andre.

 

[Dagger Dias]

I think that Wrestlemania 3's main event was an incredibly important moment. It helped create the idea that smaller guys could successfully defeat typical heavyweights in a high profile match. This is something WWE has used in countless stars over the years. Without that match it would have been much harder to believe guys like Hogan, Hart, Michaels, Jericho, Cena, Orton, etc could all be top guys. People like Lesnar, Big Show, Batista, or Mark Henry would be the guys holding the world title instead. The illusion that someone smaller could take down someone much larger than him is an important part of WWE's kayfabe strategy and without that, Wrestlemania would not be nearly as big of a deal as it is today. Would it still be around? Probably, but it would not be as big of a deal because the bigger guys would always win.

 

[Vega]

I think that Wrestlemania 3's main event was an incredibly important moment. It helped create the idea that smaller guys could successfully defeat typical heavyweights in a high profile match. This is something WWE has used in countless stars over the years. Without that match it would have been much harder to believe guys like Hogan, Hart, Michaels, Jericho, Cena, Orton, etc could all be top guys. People like Lesnar, Big Show, Batista, or Mark Henry would be the guys holding the world title instead. The illusion that someone smaller could take down someone much larger than him is an important part of WWE's kayfabe strategy and without that, Wrestlemania would not be nearly as big of a deal as it is today. Would it still be around? Probably, but it would not be as big of a deal because the bigger guys would always win.

Let's take a look at the guys who had the titles prior to Hogan and look at their billed stats:

Rogers: 6'0" - 235 lb
Sammartino: 6'1" - 260 lb
Koloff: 5'9" - 250 lb
Morales: 5'10" - 235 lb
Stasiak: 6'1" - 272 lb
Graham: 6'4" - 285 lb
Backlund: 6'1" - 241 lb
Iron Sheik: 6'0" - 262 lb
Average: 6'0" - 255 lb
And now Hogan himself: 6'7" - 294 lb

Not only is Hogan by far the tallest champion, he's also the heaviest.

If the main event was meant to establish smaller guys as main eventers, it didn't really serve the purpose. Guys like Morales (Mulligan, Kowalski, ..) or Backlund (Graham, Studd, ...) already won against bigger opponents and held onto the title for several years. It was more about changing the guard to more character based, "gimmicky" and mainstream marketable wrestlers in my opinion.

An interesting fact is that Hogan, a really big man, lost his titles almost only to bigger or equally big guys (Andre, Warrior, Undertaker, Yokozuna, Giant, Luger, Goldberg - Sting and Flair are the exception).