Wouldn't It Have Been Better If CM Punk Hadn't Come Back Right Away?

[Alittude]

Who follows Punk's twitter? Punk fans. So that's irrelevant, no new interest there. Instead you're going to take a chance and have him on talk shows, which believe it or not, not everyone watches, keep him off the biggest show of the summer.

Here's what I think happened. I think they were willing to give Punk a chance, he took his chance, and got so goddamn big that they couldn't help BUT put him on summerslam. If he wasn't as over, sure, keep him off, no big loss. But when you're as hot as Punk was, it's bad to be off TV. You have to stay relevant. You can't do that through twitter (which only people who are already fans read), you can't do that through TV shows (which not everyone in your target audience watches). WWE is families now. So like 30-50% kids. You think kids watch Jimmy Fallon or sports center? Punks problem was never about not being able to get over with adult males (who watch talk shows and ESPN) or with net-users (IWC), it was he wasn't that over with kids. Unless you're going to book Punk on the Disney channel, he's not getting exposure with the segment he needs the most visibility with.

You can't book from a selfish perspective. You have to look at a guy and think "who is he not over with" and then make him over with that segment. Personally, if I were booking for my own selfish enjoyment, I would have had him go back to ROH, sign an ROH contract on the WWE title. Title vs Title in ROH in Chicago and once he wins, ADR cashes in, in Chicago, and wins back the WWE title. Now, that's a ******ed idea from a business perspective, but I personally would have loved the shit out of it.

Mate just little while ago you were saying Punk wasn't that over and was only as over as Del Rio and that he was loosing steam a lot. Now you're saying he was so big that they had to put him on Summerslam? Man you contradict yourself so much it's a joke or do you finally admit you were wrong and he has been over for a long time now.

 

[CMSawall]

I dont have a whole to much to say, but they should of let Punk go after MITB, and keep him off storylines a bit or could of had him pulled of what Cena did when he was "Fired", and just "pop" up at every show, causing all the top WWE face's, and VKM havoc, thus leading him to drive VKM crazy losing his leadership power. and then continue with what you got now...

...Although I do agree to what someone said earlier, this whole this could of better off without Nash; come on what was his point in this? a Text message he sent him self... sheesh... how dumb.

 

[xoxo French Kiss xoxo]

Who follows Punk's twitter? Punk fans. So that's irrelevant, no new interest there. Instead you're going to take a chance and have him on talk shows, which believe it or not, not everyone watches, keep him off the biggest show of the summer.

Here's what I think happened. I think they were willing to give Punk a chance, he took his chance, and got so goddamn big that they couldn't help BUT put him on summerslam. If he wasn't as over, sure, keep him off, no big loss. But when you're as hot as Punk was, it's bad to be off TV. You have to stay relevant. You can't do that through twitter (which only people who are already fans read), you can't do that through TV shows (which not everyone in your target audience watches). WWE is families now. So like 30-50% kids. You think kids watch Jimmy Fallon or sports center? Punks problem was never about not being able to get over with adult males (who watch talk shows and ESPN) or with net-users (IWC), it was he wasn't that over with kids. Unless you're going to book Punk on the Disney channel, he's not getting exposure with the segment he needs the most visibility with.

You can't book from a selfish perspective. You have to look at a guy and think "who is he not over with" and then make him over with that segment. Personally, if I were booking for my own selfish enjoyment, I would have had him go back to ROH, sign an ROH contract on the WWE title. Title vs Title in ROH in Chicago and once he wins, ADR cashes in, in Chicago, and wins back the WWE title. Now, that's a ******ed idea from a business perspective, but I personally would have loved the shit out of it.

WWE.com does a good job of putting news on its site thats related to its wrestlers. The WWE does a hell of a job on its promotional packages to get wrestlers over, and to keep wrestlers in the minds of their fans. I'm fairly certain they could have managed to keep Punk in the minds of the fans, even hinting that Punk would be at Summer Slam would have gotten buy rates without him even having to lace up his boots.

Instead the WWE does what it does best, blew its load quickly and rushed the storyline and feud to cash in, rather than saving it up and making it special.

John Cena was "fired" and managed to show up on Raw or Smackdown every week for a month during his feud with Barrett and the Nexus last year.

 

[Peoples_Champ]

I really don't see why anyone would have wanted Punk back sooner. The intrigue of his next step was insane. If I were booking the angle, I would have let Punk do an interview on the Ring of Honor website, taking pictures with him holding the WWE title in a ROH ring.

I wouldn't have kept Punk off for months, but a couple more weeks would have been ideal. It was necessary to keep him off to build an angle, which has long since been squandered. I disagree with those that claim he would've been put on ice or forgotten, because the IWC and facebook / twitter would have went nuts with news of his movements from week to week.

IMO, this was similar to Bret's return in fall 1996 - people were on the edge of their seats trying to figure out what was going to happen. And he rode that momentum all the way to the Bret v. Austin match at WrestleMania. Had Punk been given enough time off, and if WWE did more to push him being off-air (the first Raw, his name wasn't even mentioned - which makes sense if you plan to keep him off for ~6 weeks), this could have been huge, like Austin v. McMahon huge.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Mate just little while ago you were saying Punk wasn't that over and was only as over as Del Rio and that he was loosing steam a lot. Now you're saying he was so big that they had to put him on Summerslam? Man you contradict yourself so much it's a joke or do you finally admit you were wrong and he has been over for a long time now.

No, I said he was losing steam (he was). He wasn't very over in Topeka Kansas or in Oklahoma. It was because he wasn't really doing anything. I also said "I hope Punk gets more over" which is now. From MITB-Summerslam, he wasn't that over. Read my posts, it was post summerslam, he started losing steam, so thankfully they upped the feud with him and Triple H. Had he been off TV, he would NOT be as over as he is now.

I will say I was wrong. I didn't think Punk would get as over as he is now. He was over from the shoot-Summerslam, started losing steam, I said "he's not that over anymore, probably going downhill" he upped his game and got more over.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

WWE.com does a good job of putting news on its site thats related to its wrestlers. The WWE does a hell of a job on its promotional packages to get wrestlers over, and to keep wrestlers in the minds of their fans. I'm fairly certain they could have managed to keep Punk in the minds of the fans, even hinting that Punk would be at Summer Slam would have gotten buy rates without him even having to lace up his boots.

Instead the WWE does what it does best, blew its load quickly and rushed the storyline and feud to cash in, rather than saving it up and making it special.

John Cena was "fired" and managed to show up on Raw or Smackdown every week for a month during his feud with Barrett and the Nexus last year.

So you want to "sell" the firing by having WWE.com promote all his appearances? That makes sense. Or you know, if they're going to promote him, just put him on the show.

 

[Alittude]

He wasn't ever loosing steam. If he was loosing steam how would he be more over now? Just because he didn't get as loud of a reaction in one or two cities means nothing. You were overly critical of him in an effort to try to go against all the love he was getting for some reason and now you look a bit stupid. It was obvious that CM Punk was going to keep growing and become one of the main stars of the company. If you couldn't see that well I don't know what to say.

 

[xoxo French Kiss xoxo]

So you want to "sell" the firing by having WWE.com promote all his appearances? That makes sense. Or you know, if they're going to promote him, just put him on the show.

CM Punk would make WWE news due to having the WWE Title. They could report on CM Punks whereabouts and what he was doing. Punk didn't get fired, he quit, and willing left with the WWE Title. The WWE could have kept tabs on him to try and reclaim and capture back the WWE Title.

John Cena was "fired" and bought tickets to WWE shows so he could show up and get revenge on the Nexus and Barrett. He showed up every week jumped the barricade and attacked the members of the Nexus until he was "rehired." This was done to keep the storyline going between Cena and Barrett with the Nexus in tow.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

CM Punk would make WWE news due to having the WWE Title. They could report on CM Punks whereabouts and what he was doing. Punk didn't get fired, he quit, and willing left with the WWE Title. The WWE could have kept tabs on him to try and reclaim and capture back the WWE Title.

John Cena was "fired" and bought tickets to WWE shows so he could show up and get revenge on the Nexus and Barrett. He showed up every week jumped the barricade and attacked the members of the Nexus until he was "rehired." This was done to keep the storyline going between Cena and Barrett with the Nexus in tow.

Why would have they have a guy who is holding the title hostage and "hurting' the company on their site? That just screams 'WOOORK". Plus most people (outside the IWC) never really believed he was gone.

In other words you're saying "keep him off TV, but still have the WWE push him through every other means" so how is that all that different than just having him on TV? It's not more realistic, in fact, it's actually more realistic with what they did. How many times in sports do deals get done in the last minute when a side realizes "shit this is it"?

As for the Cena thing, that's Cena, no one ever believed he was fired. People are saying to keep Punk off TV to "sell him being gone". If the WWE promotes him in ANY way, it's not selling that very well, so why not just bring him back?

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

He wasn't ever loosing steam. If he was loosing steam how would he be more over now? Just because he didn't get as loud of a reaction in one or two cities means nothing. You were overly critical of him in an effort to try to go against all the love he was getting for some reason and now you look a bit stupid. It was obvious that CM Punk was going to keep growing and become one of the main stars of the company. If you couldn't see that well I don't know what to say.

He gained it back. guys lose steam and get it back. I wasn't going against anything, I'm not like that, I'm observational. Punk was ONLY getting cheered by adults and smarks for the longest time. It wasn't until he reeled in his smarminess a bit that he really got over with everyone.

I don't look stupid. I was wrong once. I've been saying Rhodes is awesome for a long time now, and he's in a feud with Orton. I've been saying that Morrison isn't that good and isn't that over, and he's a stagnate midcarder (which is how over he is). I am really good with most of my observations. for 2 weeks or so, Punk wasn't over with the audience because they weren't in smark havens, which I thought would be his downfall. He tweaked his character and the WWE stuck with him and I'm HAPPY that I was wrong. I've been following Punk since his PRE ROH days. Most people on here are just fans who heard about this net darling, bought some ROH DVDs (or torrented them) and say they've been a fan since then. I'm the real deal. I remember an Episode of heat where he was a jobber. I was watching with my grandpa, I said "i like this guy, been following him on the indies" Punk came out in his baggy shorts, a little gut, and blonde hair, my grandpa thought I was crazy. Nobody on this forum is more of a CM Punk fan than me (except for the irrational marks who are too much of a fan that they aren't realistic).

 

[Alittude]

Omg people that talk themselves up and need to validate themselves are always full of crap. Hee wasn't only getting cheered by fans and adults you fool. Kids were buying his shirts back then too he didn't just beat Cena in merchandise when that report came out it was building ever since Mitb and he would get big crowd reactions. How can you say your observational if you were you would have known Punk would be where he is at now and you would have never said he was loosing steam because he never was. You purposely tried to put him down because of your jealousy of people getting on the Punk wagon as you knew him for a while and don't even try to deny that there was plenty of posts to prove it don't make me have to go and get them to really own you. You were saying he was only as over as Del Rio as that was clearly not true so no you are not observational at all you let your emotion cloud your judgement because you have this constant hatred for the IWC not realising that you are apart of it. Btw I heard about Punk in his very early days and saw all of his old stuff way before the shoot promo ever happened and that's why it was annoying to see you try to belittle him once he finally was getting the props he deserved.

 

[HKnux5112]

Honestly, I was quite surprised when he came back so suddenly. If he had stayed away for a month or two, I would have been fooled into thinking he was gone forever, thus the power of the WWE prevails again.

It was nice seeing him back, and cutting promos again, but he would have had a bigger reaction if he stayed away longer. People would have been guessing what he was going to do next, and who was going to be the guy to stop John Cena.

 

[MJB2527]

Would of been great however as Punk said truth was Summerslam was just around the corner and you can't gamble an angle that big on what the IWC wanted

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Omg people that talk themselves up and need to validate themselves are always full of crap. Hee wasn't only getting cheered by fans and adults you fool. Kids were buying his shirts back then too he didn't just beat Cena in merchandise when that report came out it was building ever since Mitb and he would get big crowd reactions. How can you say your observational if you were you would have known Punk would be where he is at now and you would have never said he was loosing steam because he never was. You purposely tried to put him down because of your jealousy of people getting on the Punk wagon as you knew him for a while and don't even try to deny that there was plenty of posts to prove it don't make me have to go and get them to really own you. You were saying he was only as over as Del Rio as that was clearly not true so no you are not observational at all you let your emotion cloud your judgement because you have this constant hatred for the IWC not realising that you are apart of it. Btw I heard about Punk in his very early days and saw all of his old stuff way before the shoot promo ever happened and that's why it was annoying to see you try to belittle him once he finally was getting the props he deserved.

I've said that I'm a part of the IWC. When I say "IWC" I'm speaking of the general concensus, which I'm obviously not a part of.

Punk was NOT over for the shows I was reviewing. For about 2 weeks after Summerslam when he was still doing the smarmy "gonna make this fun again" shit, not that many people cared, it was the smarks and the adults. As time went on, he became more gritty and fought more, and more people related to him.

I wasn't "belittling" Punk either. It was an observation. Listen to his reactions before Summerslam, it's deep, it's an older audience. Listen to it a few weeks after SummerSlam in the midwest where there aren't as many smarks, it's not that loud, listen to it now, kids and everyone are cheering. My observation was spot on, the thing I was (happily) wrong about was that he tweaked his character and got over with everyone else.

If I were observational I would have been able to tell the future? That's ******ed. Most observational people say that CAT is a fantastic stock, it's still about 20% lower than it was a few months ago. I can be wrong once in a while.

Punk was losing steam, for at least a few consecutive shows, he wasn't getting a very loud reaction except with the same smarks and adults as he was before. I'm not going to argue this with you anymore.

Bottom line is (getting back to the thread), Punk NEEDED to be on WWE tv. He NEEDED to be as visible as possible. Pro wrestlers are products. Pro wrestling is no different than any other business. If you have a hot product, you push the fuck out of it and try to get as much of a market share as possible.

There is a business concept called the "Growth-share" matrix. On it, you have a box with 4 quadrants.
Lower right, you have dogs, dogs are worthless to a company for the most part. They have a low market share in a low-growth industry.
Upper right, you have question marks, this is a high-growth industry, but you have a low market share.
Upper left, you have stars, high growth, high market share.
Lower left, you have cash cows, low growth, but high market share.

CM Punk was a question mark before MITB on his way to being a star. His "product" (and potential money his character could generate) had a HUGE upside of potential, however, there was a low "market share". Meaning that not a whole lot of people were completely sold on him.

At MITB and a probably the weeks before, WWE knew he could be a star. However, to be a star, you need market share. If Punk isn't on WWE TV, the people you need MOST to accept him likely won't. However, WWE is obviously smarter than people on here, so they kept him on TV. Punk was pushed and eventually accepted, now he's a star.

John Cena is a cash cow. Pretty much everyone is interested in him in one way or another, but realistically there isn't much more he can grow his fanbase because it's pretty much peaked.

Understand now why WWE (a business) obviously used a business concept when deciding what to do with Punk (a product)?

When Christopher Nolan made a shitload of money with TDK did Warner Brothers say "okay Chris, do whatever now" or did they sign him to Inception and make damn sure he was doing another Batman?

 

[AndrewTMartin]

yes, CM Punk is one of the biggest fails ever. Happy we got one good match and night out of it in the beginning there though,.

 

[GrandSword]

Yes, he should have stayed away... shown up and disrupted numerous WWE events wheer talent was going to be much like he did at Comic-con.

Instead of booking a tournament for a new champion, I would have Vince walk out on Raw after MITB and said that whether CM Punk works for WWE or not, there is a 30 day title defence clause and if he doesn't show up at Sumemrslam to defend the belt, it will be stripped of him and they'll crown a new Champion that night. The whole Cena being fired thing can be stopped by The Rock showing up and telling Vince not to fire him because he wants to kick his butt at WM.

So for the next month everyone wonders if Punk will return or not. He doesn't at first at Summerslam and Vince is about to order a title match when he appears through the crowd, defeats whoever it is, and escapes back through the crowd.

Once again, he isn't on tv except for being sighted at events or whatever. Vince starts the 30 days again and says to Punk, wouldn't it be better to get paid for defedning the belt then just showing up?

Punk cuts a promo on Youtube or whatever (much like Awesome -Truth did) and gives Vince another pipe bomb about money etc.

He has this cult following and the merch would be seling as Punk gives his propaganda thorugh constant videoes uploaded to WWE.Com which are shown regualarly on Raw, about him and the WWE title still being held hostage.

HHH returns and challenges Punk to a match at Night of Champions as he tells Punk he is more than just a doofus son in law, he is the Game, the man that possibly eneded the Undertaker's career at WM. The man who is an umpteenth time World Champion and the man that personifies everything Punk hates about the WWE.

Punk agrees, returns and faces off against Triple H a few months after he left...

There ya go... Punk is now the most over dude on the roster and a huge money maker for the company.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Yes, he should have stayed away... shown up and disrupted numerous WWE events wheer talent was going to be much like he did at Comic-con.

Instead of booking a tournament for a new champion, I would have Vince walk out on Raw after MITB and said that whether CM Punk works for WWE or not, there is a 30 day title defence clause and if he doesn't show up at Sumemrslam to defend the belt, it will be stripped of him and they'll crown a new Champion that night. The whole Cena being fired thing can be stopped by The Rock showing up and telling Vince not to fire him because he wants to kick his butt at WM.

So for the next month everyone wonders if Punk will return or not. He doesn't at first at Summerslam and Vince is about to order a title match when he appears through the crowd, defeats whoever it is, and escapes back through the crowd.

Once again, he isn't on tv except for being sighted at events or whatever. Vince starts the 30 days again and says to Punk, wouldn't it be better to get paid for defedning the belt then just showing up?

Punk cuts a promo on Youtube or whatever (much like Awesome -Truth did) and gives Vince another pipe bomb about money etc.

He has this cult following and the merch would be seling as Punk gives his propaganda thorugh constant videoes uploaded to WWE.Com which are shown regualarly on Raw, about him and the WWE title still being held hostage.

HHH returns and challenges Punk to a match at Night of Champions as he tells Punk he is more than just a doofus son in law, he is the Game, the man that possibly eneded the Undertaker's career at WM. The man who is an umpteenth time World Champion and the man that personifies everything Punk hates about the WWE.

Punk agrees, returns and faces off against Triple H a few months after he left...

There ya go... Punk is now the most over dude on the roster and a huge money maker for the company.

You can't just say "there ya go, Punk is over" that's not how it works. Fact is, Punk IS now over and they didn't do what you said, so......what you're saying is what you wanted COULD possibley turn out as good as their actual choice. Probably not, but COULD.

Also, "drops another pipe bomb on youtube" yea, because getting over with the net fans is what he needed. Notice how Punk didn't get chants from kids until he was less smarmy? When you have a product on the verge of being a star, you don't limit their market share. You needed Punk to be exposed to the areas of the audience that weren't as into him (the kids that don't search for TEH SHOOTZ on youtube). You idea would have failed because you are booking for YOU and YOU are the same type of people Punk was always over with.

Pro wrestling is a business, the wrestlers are products, you understand that and you understand WWE.

 

[Lockard23]

Overall, the storyline would have probably been better but it doesn't matter anyway, Vince still would have turned him face and nothing would have changed.