Would Randy Orton And Batista Have Made It Big Without Evolution?

[PlayTheGame]

Randy Orton and Batista, two of the best and most popular WWE superstars on the current roster. My question is, would they have made it quite as big without being associated with the likes of Triple H and Ric Flair so early on in the careers? The push that Evolution gave them is almost immeasurable, as being put into such a high-profile, high-priority stable would push practically anyone, rookie or not, to the top. So, if Orton and Batista were not placed into Evolution, would they have made it big in the WWE on their own?

I think Randy Orton would have eventually. He had a sort of rocky start with his arrogant heel gimmick in which he would update us all on how his rehabbing was going in the early 00's, and I sort of had my doubts about him. But, due to his overall ability that would have most likely showed one way or another over time, and due to the fact that he's a third generation star, I think he would made it big eventually. However, I'm not sure he would have quite reached the level of success that he currently has now, nor as many world title reigns.

I'm not so sure about Batista. I mean, what really set him apart from the rest before he got with Evolution? He was just a quiet, jacked heel. In fact, his first gimmick, D-Von Dudley's Deacon Batista, was a pretty rocky start. I'm not so sure he would have made it that big in the WWE. He could have easily just been a monster heel who would have eventually become a jobber after winning a few midcard belts, sort of like Umaga. I'm not so sure he would have earned the opportunity in management's eyes to headline and be able to develop into the superstar that he is today. I also couldn't see him ever becoming a world champion either without the Evolution rub.

What do you guys think?

 

[mattmcgee85]

I agree with you in that, I think , Orton would have made it big still but not Batista. I actually liked Orton's injury update gimmick. It reminded me of Kurt Angle when he first started, in that, he wasn't forcing it down your throat to not like him, but his cocky promos, like Angle's early promos, made you not like the guy. I think Orton would probably still be similar to the character he is today, because like Kurt did, he would have evolved from a somewhat commical heel to a very intense competitor.
Batista I don't think would have done good at all without the Evolution bump. I think Batista went over for three main reasons. 1) The Flair mentor angle that bought him into evolution,2) the suprise( at least for me) return and attack on Goldberg, and finally 3) the wrestlmainia build up and eventual showdown with HHH. Without those three things,IMO, he doesn't go over, and those three things don't happen without evolution. Batista probably would have wound up like Bull Buchannen or Tomko, and not even be with the company today. ( I know the latter is but you catch my drift).

 

[rowdy ruben]

i agree i think when orton first debuted in his match against hardcore holly everyone new he was gonna be a big star. he is a third generation wrestler nd has the looks

batuista started off with a bad gimmick nd had nothin for him for about a year. i think he would have ended up like tomko

 

[The True Legend Killer]

i think that orton would have had around two world titles by now, and would have many more to come.

but batista, he would be a monster heel most of his career and maybe win the intercontinental and tag titles a few times, but nothing big.

 

[4horseman fan]

I think Orton would have made it in the business because of his heel mentality as well as being a third generation superstar. He makes you want to hate him and I think that plays to what the audience likes. As far as Batista, I think he needed Evolution. He needed to have Ric Flair and Triple H on his side. He's nothing but a muscular guy who would have won a few matches every now and then and then would have faded off into the sunset. When he's hurt no one really misses him or thinks about him but Orton is hurt everyone wonders when he's coming back. Orton just has something that Batista doesn't and that's why Orton could have made it without being in Evolution.

 

[ThePeoplesChampion]

i think orton would of been a star....maybe not as soon as he did but still.....batista now i think would of been tomko.....big guy wit nothin....evolution really helped him...wit out it i see him wit out a job now!

 

[justinsayne]

Orton yes, though I don't know if he'd have had as much success as he has had, it would have taken a bit longer to get to where he is now, I think he would have prolly taken a similar path to ME heel as Edge did, meaning instead of reaching ME status after only two years it would've likely taken him closer to six years (like Edge), Evolution put Orton in the fast lane to the ME

Batista prolly not, with out Evolution Batista would've been just another big guy running around beating the shit out of people, he had, fuck that, he has no real charisma and nothing that makes him stand out, Evolution supplied Batista with the character he needs to get over, the defining moment in Batista's career is him coming out on top in his feud with Triple H, that feud would never have happened with out Evolution, therefore it's very likely Batista would never have had that defining moment needed to get over

 

[tman2019]

Not to sound like a Broken Record...

but I agree

Orton would be just fine, it just would have taken him longer to make it to main event status

Batista would still be struggling or possibly in TNA by now. I still don't see why he is a main eventer, the only reason he is is the fact that he was in Evolution. Batista has a limited move set and just reminds me too much of the Ultimate Warrior - type character to be taken seriously. A lot of intensity but not a lot of ring knowledge or psychology.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I think they both wouldve made it.

Orton is just an absolute natural at pretty much everything, and has gained the vast majority of his stardom and development on the OUTSIDE of Evolution anyway.

Batista, while having little direction, wouldve had something figured out for him. I remember watching the Evolution entrance, and Batista doing the flexing, and thinking to myself "Wow that guy just looks like a fucking STAR. He will be a huge star someday" Batista pretty much has every last peice of ability needed to be a huge star in the WWE. He wouldve made it, sooner or later.

 

[Azrael Cain]

During the formation of Evolution, Levesque and Flair walked around the locker room (or so the theory goes) and looked for those most likely to be successful, most likely to benefit from working with and under them. They (so theory goes again) personally chose Orton and Batista because they believed that those were the two most promising out of the entire roster.

To me, the very fact that they were chosen for Evolution means they would've been successful. However, that's irrelevant to this topic; if there were no Evolution, would the two guys Levesque and Flair pegged as the future stars have indeed become those stars? I say yes, to both.

Orton had the looks of a star from his very first appearance on WWE TV. He was young, charismatic, athletic, solid. I think that he would've had a slower climb to the top, and maybe would still be climbing today if it wasn't for Evolution.

Batista started as D-Von's lackey, and following that feud he could've easily been propelled up, up, up. He had the size, strength, ability, and look. It also would've taken time and a different route, but Vince likes big guys and Batista is a big guy, and from what I hear had a solid rep backstage...

The thing is that I think Evolution would've come along in some way and the two would've gotten swept up either way, in one form or another, whether feuding as members of it or as soldiers against it... many scenarios play out, and depending on who would've taken what route, different roles could've been fulfilled.

I will join in with almost all the other posters and admit that Orton would've gotten to the top faster, if only out of having a slightly better look and age on his side. But both guys are athletic as all fuck and talented as all fuck, so it would've only been a matter of time through different routes.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Orton would probably have been pushed eventually regardless. Being 3rd gen is always going to get you far in Vince's eyes. Batista would have had to work on his mic work and develop his ring skills a lot quicker than he has done to make it where he is now.

If you look at Cena's debut around the same time, even he didn't have an awesome start. He did his ruthless aggression thing for a while, and then did nothing and then started his rapper bit and they paired him with Bull Buchannan (B2) and then Rodney Mack and eventually he got over and they put him in fueds with the big guys.

Batista didn't even do much when he was in Evolution tbh. Ok so he attacked Goldberg, big whoop. He then went back to fighting random ME guys who were willing to put him over, not in proper fueds, just in one offs, and it wasn't until Orton was removed from the group did he start to stand out. So technically it took him nearly twice as long to get to the level Orton did, however you have to take into consideration the fact that he got hurt half way through his run, which didn't help.

Anyway, like i said originally, i think Batista would only just be reaching ME level now, if he'd spent the whole time working on his game etc, and hadn't gotten the 'E' rub.

 

[Pimpin]

Here is my 2 cents on this.

Orton- Yes I believe he would have made it without Evolution. From the very first moment you saw his first match on tv you figured he would become a huge star but it would have taken a bit longer than it did but the thing is he still would have made it big.

Batista- This guy is complete shit. He was stuck as Brother D-Von's deacon til Evolution took a look at him. I agree with the person who said that without the Flair protege angle, the suprise & coming out on top of the feud with Triple H that he would probably be in TNA or a jobber for life.

 

[hoffman40]

In my opinion, Randy Orton was a star on the rise that couldn't be stopped. Yes, Evolution helped speed that process along for him with great interviews and angles and yes...being the youngest World Heavyweight Champion. However, Orton is a natural in this business and I think that he would have climbed to the top no matter what and if you think about it maybe that would've been better for him...to NOT be in Evolution! JR was quoted about RKO's behavioral problems saying "thats what you get when you thrust a guy in the big time way too early." Had he not had that Evolution/HHH quick path angle to success and had to claw his way to the top maybe those behavioral problems would've subsided.

As for Batista?...I think he owes everything he is to Evolution and Ric Flair! He never would've been "The Animal" and wouldn't even be thought of to headline a Wrestlemania. Granted, I think Batista's gotten better over the years but he isn't in view of Randy Orton's league.

 

[LokiCobain]

Batista's gimmick before WWE/Evolution, I thought, was great. He was known as Leviathan, and I believe there's a video on youtube with Leviathan against Kane. Everyone keeps saying he'd be like Tomko, but if he continued that gimmick, he'd be more like an English-speaking version of Umaga, a sort of Snitsky without the foot fetish. I think he would have been more liked and more popular with that gimmick, with or without Evolution, and had he continued with that, he'd be more respected by the fans overall than Randy is now. I would go as far to say that had this scenario been the case, I wouldn't have been surprised if they had Leviathan end the Undertaker's Wrestlemania streak.

 

[ChrisIrvine]

I agree with just about all of you that Orton would have been a huge success either way. I also believe that the rub Batista got from ORTON (not necessaily HHH or Flair) is what got Batista over. Orton exploded into such heel status and after Evolution, had the rivalry already developed with Batista. And since Orton was heel, we almost HAD to cheer for Batista.

However, I am not as down on the Big Man as most of you are. Without Evolution, I don't think Batista would be the mega star he is now, but with his look and his intesity and what is actually a pretty decent move set, I could 100% see him as going the "Kane" Route. Being a dominate monster, who doesn't necessarily win the titles, but is always in the think of things. I remember the footage from OVW when Kane went down to wrestle Batista (before he debuted in WWE) and Batista effortlessly powerbombed kane. That sold me on his potential.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

I'm in agreement with the majority here, in that Orton would have made it without Evolution while Batista would have not. Although I am not a big fan of Orton, I must admit that he does bring something to the table. His gimmick as a cocky heel is utterly generic, but, there's always one of them and no one plays the part better than Orton. As for Batista, he would have gone the way of other big men had HHH not stepped in and befriended him. Well, actually, I take that back. There is the possibility that Batista would have made it without Evolution, but, without HHH, Batista would have been, at best, just another Bobby Lashley: he thinks he is worth more than he is and, while he may have sparked interest for a couple of months or maybe even a year, he would have fizzled out quickly right afterward.

 

[Rated R SuperFan]

I would have to say yes Randy Orton and Batista woul dhave made it big withouy evolution . However I feel that they wouldn't have Multipule world title runs this early in their career had it notr been for Evolution . They are both good proformers but ned that little rub from "Nature Boy" Ric Flair and Triple H .Thank you all for your time .

 

[RATED R CHAMPION]

That's Right, Exactly What I Was Going To Say, Randy Orton Would Have Still Be The Main Eventer And Phenomenal Superstar He's Today, But I Don't Think Batista Would, I Mean Batista Was Heavyly Helped By Ric Flair And The Hhh Angle Back In 05, So I Dont Think He Would Have Been Such Good As He's Today Without Evoution, As I Aforementioned, Randy Unlike Batista, Would Have....

 

[DeadmanInc.]

Orton would have definitely been where he is today eventually. Most of his success started after he broke away from Evolution anyways. While he was in Evolution all he did was have a decent reign as IC Champion and then get buried by Triple H. Orton's feud after Evolution with Undertaker and Rated RKO are what pushed him back into the main event.

Unlike others, I still think Batista would have been in the main event eventually since Vince loves big men. He probably wouldn't have been the megastar he is now but he definitely would have been in the main event since he has the look of a credible monster, along with decent mic skills.

 

[RH23]

I think Orton would have made it eventually. He's got the cocky attitude that you love to hate. As for Batista I really don't think he would have. I think that he would've ended up either in the mid card somewhere or released. He didn't have a good gimmick before he joined Evolution. He was the bodyguard of D-Von Dudley. Orton on the other hand had those annoying injury updates that people hated which really benefited him.

 

[eXtremely-Priceless2K9]

I think that RKO would, he got all his success by winning the title then getting away, for a VERY short while the fan loved him when he turned heel he was HATED. So imo Orton would be where he is today

Batista definitely would IMO he did NOTHING in evo, it made no difference to his career imho he would of also made it, Hunter even said that
"him and Ric had to find two young guys that WOULD make it on thier own but HHH wanted to give em a push"
So both would make it i reckon

 

[Captain Bean]

i think orton would have, he had the size, the speed, the agility, the attitude, the charisma, he was always going to make it. plus hes a third generation superstar, and that always helps. without evolution, he may have been slower to make it to the top, but his rise to the top would have been inevitable.

as for batista, well he may not have. he may have been just another muscle bound mid carder. i mean, yeh he is big, but so was chris masters, and he never made it to the main event. without evolution, batista may have been stuck in the mid cards i.e. umaga, or possibly released.

 

[Age of Orton]

Good question, Randy Orton yes, he was getting pushed fine when he started out and over time would of blossumed kind of like he did.. take away the 2004 world title run and his career has came along nice and steady, Batista on the other hand no, when he debuted his gimmick was lame, when he finally broke away with it he was kind of paired with Flair, had that not of happened then no, he might of rose to IC Title level, and a few runs, but in the end he would of been like Kane a flash in the pan title run at some point due to his size but nothing more.. hell go back to October 2004 (mere months before the Rumble he won) he jobbed to Maven of all people.