Would Jerry "The King" Lawler have seen more success in WCW?

[It's...Baylariat!]

In the early 90's, Jerry Lawler made his debut in the WWE at the King of the Ring during Bret Hart's coronation to some mixed reactions. Most didn't really know who he was, and some did and were wondering why he was in the WWE. To me, other than his stellar color commentary career, Lawler's wrestling career faded quickly in the WWE.

I also know that Lawler worked for WWE because he used his Memphis promotion, USWA, as a developmental territory for WWE.

What if he did business with WCW instead? To me, Lawler relates more to the Southern United States fan base and would get over a lot quicker in WCW than he did in the WWE. Think about the potential clashes with the likes of Sting, Flair, Vader, and eventually Hulk Hogan.

I think he would have fit in a LOT better in WCW than the WWE.

What say you? Does Lawler see more success as a wrestler in WCW? Or was going to the WWE the better decision for him?

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I don't think he would have, if anything he embodied what Turner and Bischoff were trying to get away from... the "Southern" associations that WCW had.

Sure Lawler was a draw in those areas but for a company trying to break a stereotype he was the polar opposite of what they needed. They went for guys like Davey Boy Smith, Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage and got Flair back after WWF runs to make WCW "appear national".

Lawler could have worked fine in WCW as an upper mid/semi-main event heel just as he did in the WWF... but he would have been fed to Hogan and the like, and probably Duggan and the other ex-WWF guys rather than seriously pushed.

Ironically, despite already being national, the same "southern-ness" was actually something the WWF was embracing at the time, they were bringing in more regional talents like Jeff Jarrett, Lawler, Cornette, Matt Borne as a way to balance out the cartoonishness with solid wrestling talent. While not being hired for specifically being southern, guys like Lawler and Jarrett appealed to those areas that WWF was expanding into more often than previously and someone like Borne, despite being in a totally gimmicked character as Doink, had the wrestling chops to counter... however silly those initial runs were for Lawler, Jarrett etc at times it was always clear they could wrestle and hold their own in the WWF.

From Vince's side both USWA and SMW were offering solid mid card talents with potential at good prices and value for Vince. For Lawler it was a win/win. He got national exposure on a part time basis allowing his own Memphis business to continue with the assists from WWF talent stopping in. Look how many talents came from that USWA/SMW period starting in late 1990 through to 1994... Kane, Papa Shango/The Godfather, Al Snow, Men On A Mission, Tom Prichard... with the exception of Mo... all of those guys had LONG WWF/E careers or multiple runs... their initial gimmicks maybe didn't wash but grew into important parts of the roster...just like Lawler did. If anything it's very shrewd business from Vince and the best return on talent investment since he bought Stampede. While those guys didn't really all "main event", they all became long term assets... some like Snow and Prichard were the cornerstone of their training for years... Vis and Charles Wright on the roster for years in strong roles and Kane speaks for himself... they all came from that initial punt on Jerry Lawler, seeing it could work, then translating it to Cornette and later Heyman and ECW. Lawler deserves a LOT of credit for shaping how the modern WWE operates as USWA was the template "developmental" territory and he was smart enough to take his own ego out of the equation when it came to pushing talent. Sometimes Cornette and Paul E didn't. WCW wouldn't have done that, they'd have focused on monsters to face Hogan. Imagine if some of those guys had gone to WCW how different things would have been...


Lawler may have ended up on the mic in WCW too, but it wouldn't have been the same as working with Jim Ross. Indeed as the Monday Night Wars show is constantly saying, "WCW didn't want a Southern accent", while Vince wanted out of the booth and Lawler and Jim Ross were a natural and fan friendly pairing after trying guys like Perfect, Savage and DiBiase. They became that Monsoon/Heenan pairing that had been missing.

Jerry Lawler is one of the better success stories of the "territory" talents in the big time. He had better feuds and matches, particularly with Bret in 1993 than Dusty and Harley race managed in their whole tenures and he had the "mic skills" in his locker to enable longevity. Dusty and Harley struggled in that first run and with the "hazing" and ran back to WCW, ironically becoming little more than off-screen agents. Lawler had it too, people shitting in his crown etc... but he saw the bigger picture, did as he was told and was very much "in on the ground floor" of the post Hogan era... when guys started jumping to WCW, he had a few years "loyalty" built up, and thus he was set and even if offered a jump could say to Vince he'd stay and be rewarded.

Lawler in WCW lasts 2-3 years tops till Hogan, Flair, Duthy and all the other politicking gets him fired or let go...all would have been jealous of his Memphis business and the whole "You never beat me" thing he had with most of them...they'd have been out to get him.

With the exception of that period he left for his wife (which again probably got him his job back in the end, Vince would respect standing up for your family) he has been in the WWF for nigh on 20 years... He'd never have got that in WCW... for all his pre WWF successes, Andy Kaufman etc... Lawler is defined as a WWF lifer in many ways, for a guy who was in his forties when he debuted, that's good going!

 

[FlairFan2003]

You are forgetting that Lawler was pretty old, isn't he older than Hogan & Flair ? If so I cant see him getting a huge run in WCW.

He arrives in WCW in 93 and he's competing on a roster with Steamboat, Sting, Vader, Rick Rude, not too mention rising stars Pillman & Austin. Then you add Flair into the mix later in the year (not too mention Sid was there at that time) and Lawler to me doesn't look so hot. He had talent, no doubt, and he could work heel or face with equal effectiveness, in WWE he was an upper mid carder with some goof feuds but not in the World Title Scene (although he feuded against those who were, like Brett Hart). In WCW I think it would have been the same, I cant see him getting Vader's Title after Sid was fired, not with Flair, Sting, & Steamboat all on the roster as major faces with more mainstream exposure.

He might have had a different run, working more as a fan fave with WCW already doing well with Vader, Rude, & Austin as top heels plus Steven Regal on the under card along with Pillman. By the time Flair helped recruit Hogan & Savage to join I think Lawler would have been in trouble. Hogan exercised so much control when he came in it wasn't funny, and WCW immediately started turning into WWE PT 2 back then, only with Flair & Arn Anderson in the roles of lead villain without a Piper, Andre, or DiBiase around. By 1995 (when Lawler was nearing the end of any meaningful in ring work other than sporadic one of's with WWE) I think he would have been the odd man out, not fitting in with the Hogan's heros crowd which was basically the two WWE guys plus Sting, he might have fit in as a heel with Hogan's Enemies, but he would have been in a supporting role because Hogan always saw the big money in WCW as Hogan-Flair, the two polar opposite 80s super stars collide. Hogan's WCW in 94-early 96 was pretty consistent in constantly building Flair up against everyone else so Hogan could eventually knock him down, with Flair & Savage carrying the workload for the company while Hogan worked his part time schedule. Certainly if Lawler was here at this point he would have been asked to put over Hogan. He likely would have done it since he's an old school, company first mentality like Flair & Savage were, not sure he would have been happy.

Either way it's all conjecture, in the end I don't think Lawler going WCW in early 90s would have been a huge boast for him, it might have been marginally better than the late career WWE run but I don't think it would have been leaps and bounds better.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Jerry Lawler is one of the better success stories of the "territory" talents in the big time. He had better feuds and matches, particularly with Bret in 1993 than Dusty and Harley race managed in their whole tenures and he had the "mic skills" in his locker to enable longevity. Dusty and Harley struggled in that first run and with the "hazing" and ran back to WCW, ironically becoming little more than off-screen agents. Lawler had it too, people shitting in his crown etc... but he saw the bigger picture, did as he was told and was very much "in on the ground floor" of the post Hogan era... when guys started jumping to WCW, he had a few years "loyalty" built up, and thus he was set and even if offered a jump could say to Vince he'd stay and be rewarded.

!

I don't think it's fair to say Race & Dusty were "territory talents" when they jumped to WWE. TBS exposure meant they were every bit as "national" as anything WWE was doing, plus WWE was still expanding and building its national promotion at this time, they were still basically a "territory" company, especially in 1987 when Race was there. More viewers nationally were watching WCW SAT Night on TBS than they were watching WWE on USA on Monday Nights back then.

Race & Rhodes came over with a lot of age, Race was past his prime and on his last run where he could still wrestle. He won King Of The Ring, cleanly pinned JYD at W-Mania, and main evented vs Hogan before health issues forced him out. He barely wrestled again, occasional one of scenarios, although he proved an effective manager for Lex Luger & Vader in WCW.

Rhodes also was older and near the end of his ability to wrestle anything resembling a full time schedule. He also carried a lot of baggage from a bad exit from the NWA. He wasn't treated as well for sure, but he may not have liked being part of the show when in the NWA he WAS the show.

As far as "territory" talents were concerned, before the NWA & WWE were promoting cards all over the continental US (which they were by 1986) and
both promotions were relying almost exclusively on their core business alone, such "Territory" guys as Roddy Piper, Greg Valentine, Ricky Steamboat, and Randy Savage among others all jumped to WWE and had fairly good runs, some legendary. Add in mid carders such as JYD alongside such "territory" guys as Ted Dibiase, as well as "territory" guys who broke national post 1986 with the NWA like Mike Rotunda & Rick Rude and there were a lot of "territory" guys who did quite well for themselves later in WWE.

Lets not forget The Ultimate Warrior was a "territory" guy as well, wrestling with the short lived Mid South based UWF before joining WWE.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

By Territory Guys, I clearly mean the ones who were "The Main Men" of their territory. Harley, Dusty and Lawler and Kerry Von Erich fit into that category. They came into the WWF and were not majorly pushed in the same way as they had been. Guys like Warrior and Rude were PART of those territories and grew by being in the WWF, they weren't top men who made the leap. Vince could push Curt Hennig, Rick Martel and to a lesser extent Kerry Von Erich etc as his own creation, despite them all being former World Champions... someone like Rude, Warrior or Ted DiBiase quickly became WWF guys and their previous tenures forgotten... You couldn't do that with guys like Dusty and Harley... so they had to be used differently.

Harley and Dusty in particular were unusual signings for Vince, guys he didn't particularly want or need but obliged them and gave them work when they had no other options having damaged their bridges in the NWA and being too old to head to Japan. Jerry may have been older, but he was still working regularly in Memphis, with a strong fanbase and offer something fresh to Vince, not an NWA old timer looking for one last run/payday. It showed in how they were used in the main, Harley was given the "King" title and Heenan, so he was given some tools... Dusty wasn't in the same way, be it cos of his ego or Hogan politics he was given the short straw... and didn't really make it work.

As you said, it was only later that they went truly national, running into more southern markets and that is where Lawler excelled, he knew those markets what they wanted and Vince knew that... he let Lawler and Cornette build new talent for him and get the "double dip" from being on WWF TV... which made people come out to see them in their territory.

Harley had blown the Missouri territory by the time he got over there, he needed money... and Duthty really was washed up by that time and in denial... he at least had Dustin as his trump card. You could even argue Vince signed Dusty to get dibbs on the future Goldust.

 

[Creepy Old Man]

I don't rate Jerry Lawler at all as an in-ring performer. He booked himself as a regional legend, and the only memorable thing he did in the big leagues was a feud with Bret Hart (who exactly had a bad feud with Bret?). He was a tremendous commentator in the 1990s and early 2000s, which contorts people's perception of him into that of a "legendary" wrestler. By no means an all-time great.

 

[EastCoastFan]

Jerry Lawler was already in his mid-40's by the time he went to the WWF as a commentator, so I highly doubt he would have been given a run as a champion. He had already been the top star in Memphis for years and was AWA World Champion in 1988, so he had already had a very good career before he went north.

If he had gone to WCW instead and assuming he wasn't going to be a commentator (WCW signed Bobby Heenan away for that), he would have most likely been lost in the shuffle with all the other guys WCW brought in but had no clue how to utilize.

It should be noted that Vince tried to get Lawler into the WWF in the 80's. Vince's MO then was to steal away the top talents in a territory, then run shows in that area. As a part-owner of the Memphis territory as well as being its top star, Lawler was already making more money than Vince was offering them at the time. If Vince had been able to lure him away to the WWF back then, Lawler probably would have gotten time as IC Champion, but I highly doubt he would have had a run as WWF Champ during the peak years of Hulkamania.

 

[bioshock]

If anything Lawler could of talked him self to the top, but then again WCW had some decent talkers shortly after 93 with Flair and then Hogan coming in, but I do think he might of had some kind of a feud with Flair, Sting and Hogan going back and forth as a face and heel. But I do think he could of worked. He wasn't exactly used that good in WWF, I mean sure he had the good feud with Bret, and great on commentary, but I don't recall the Bret feud ever having a payoff. If any I'm not sure if WCW would of done any worse than WWF did.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Eh, not really. To me, Jerry Lawler was the epitome of a territory star and Lawler's territory was Memphis. By the early 90s, WCW wanted to get away from the "wrasslin'" image that wrestling had and Lawler was a prime example of the "wrasslin'" style.

You also have to consider the fact that by the time Lawler came to the WWF, he was well into his 40s and the peak years of his career and abilities inside the ring as a wrestler were behind him. The territory system was dead, Lawler had a recognizable gimmick as the "king of wrestling" and I believe he would have quickly been moved into a career as a commentator in WCW as surely as he was in WWF. I don't see Lawler making it big in WCW during that time considering that WCW had guys like Ric Flair, Sting, Lex Luger and would soon bring in guys like Hogan & Savage. On a national basis, these were wrestlers who were more well known than Lawler. Aside from Vince, WCW was the only other company that was able to successfully go national and part of the reason was they were able to utilize the talent they had on the roster and by bringing in guys who were already made into stars by the WWF. Lawler really didn't have much to offer in that sense.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Guess I'm going to be the voice of dissension here then.

I think Jerry could have been a great fit in WCW, especially if he'd stayed 'face'. Whether or not WCW was trying to move from southern stereotypes or not - their fanbase was predominantly from that area and Jerry Lawler was a huge draw in a significant part of said area. Yes, he was 42 when he joined the WWF... but he is still slightly younger than Slic Ric (who won his last WHC at 51) and less than four years older than Hogan (who won his last WWF title at 48). When he came in, he'd have had the likes of Rude, Austin, Regal and Vader to feud with; then Flair (who he'd done good business in the past with) and then what could have REALLY been big business - Randy Savage.

Randy Savage and Jerry Lawler had a feud that was legendary (and very real for a period). Had Lawler turned (after an initial face run) on Hogan with his USWA cohorts with Savage coming in to assist Hulk, we could have seen a resumption on a national stage... and who better to lead an army against the nWo with Savage than the man who put him down originally?

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Guess I'm going to be the voice of dissension here then.

I think Jerry could have been a great fit in WCW, especially if he'd stayed 'face'. Whether or not WCW was trying to move from southern stereotypes or not - their fanbase was predominantly from that area and Jerry Lawler was a huge draw in a significant part of said area. Yes, he was 42 when he joined the WWF... but he is still slightly younger than Slic Ric (who won his last WHC at 51) and less than four years older than Hogan (who won his last WWF title at 48). When he came in, he'd have had the likes of Rude, Austin, Regal and Vader to feud with; then Flair (who he'd done good business in the past with) and then what could have REALLY been big business - Randy Savage.

Randy Savage and Jerry Lawler had a feud that was legendary (and very real for a period). Had Lawler turned (after an initial face run) on Hogan with his USWA cohorts with Savage coming in to assist Hulk, we could have seen a resumption on a national stage... and who better to lead an army against the nWo with Savage than the man who put him down originally?

I get what you are saying but there were far better options for WCW and they generally took them as and when they became available. In 1992-93 they took Davey Boy, fully intending to make him the champ and capitalise on Summerslam. Then they went with Bossman, Nash Hall, Hogan, Duggan and Savage... even Piper.

I watched the doc on Hogan v Piper and realised I'd forgotten how good Piper was in WCW in 96/97... Lawler would NEVER have been that good, he never had that recognition, be in in 1992 or 1997.

At the heart of it Jerry was someone who "should" have been in the WWF all along... had he joined in the mid 80's or even around WM4 time he would have been huge as a star and talent... but he had a great thing going in Memphis and for all the knocks on his "ability" he had more in the locker than Warrior, Sid and even Taker at that time... Callaway improved by being in the WWF and so did Lawler, not so much in the ring but as a rounded out wrestling personality. Like it or not Jerry is forever associated with the WWE first now... and most fans like it that way.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

He was the proverbial big fish in a small pond but a lot of what made him the King wouldn't have translated nearly as much elsewhere. I think to be successful in WCW, he would've had to make a conscious decision to leave Memphis behind earlier than he did: I'm thinking 1989/1990 timeframe. Politically, he would've had to deal with Flair, but assuming that situation could be smoothed over and the two would work together, I could see Jim Ross' commentary really helping to put Lawler over as a major threat to Flair or Sting. In essence, I see Lawler filling the gap left by Ricky Steamboat and Terry Funk when they left in 1989. Any much later than that, and you run into the issues of Hogan coming in and the perspective of Lawler not measuring up.

 

[The Brain]

In the early 90's, Jerry Lawler made his debut in the WWE at the King of the Ring during Bret Hart's coronation to some mixed reactions. Most didn't really know who he was, and some did and were wondering why he was in the WWE.

That would have been a cool way for Lawler to debut but he had actually been in the WWF for about six months at that time. He was already doing commentary on Superstars and was in the Royal Rumble earlier that year.

Anyway, Lawler may have done ok in WCW but a couple years earlier. WCW was struggling while Flair was in WWF in 91/92. Lawler might have been able to step up in Flair's absence. By mid 1993 Flair was back and a year later Hogan had arrived. Not that Lawler couldn't have been around during that time too but I don't think he would have stood out as much. By the time we got to 1996 Lawler would have played the role of respected veteran getting destroyed by the nwo to make them look good. Lawler was definitely better of in WWF because he still has a job there over 20 years later. Even a WCW title run couldn't top that.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

That would have been a cool way for Lawler to debut but he had actually been in the WWF for about six months at that time. He was already doing commentary on Superstars and was in the Royal Rumble earlier that year.

Anyway, Lawler may have done ok in WCW but a couple years earlier. WCW was struggling while Flair was in WWF in 91/92. Lawler might have been able to step up in Flair's absence. By mid 1993 Flair was back and a year later Hogan had arrived. Not that Lawler couldn't have been around during that time too but I don't think he would have stood out as much. By the time we got to 1996 Lawler would have played the role of respected veteran getting destroyed by the nwo to make them look good. Lawler was definitely better of in WWF because he still has a job there over 20 years later. Even a WCW title run couldn't top that.

Had no idea he was already there....shows how lackluster his debut was... to me anyways.

My reason for thinking WCW might have fit him better was due to him being able to go mainstream. The Andy Kaufmann/Lawler deal showed he was relevant in pop culture, so it's not impossible to see him come right in to WCW and at least make some sort of mark.

I do agree that Hogan and Flair would have made that tough to do... same goes for Savage and others jockeying for a spot. Thinking of a Schiavone/Lawler commentating team makes me smile though, even if Heenan was there, too.

It would have been unique to see him in WCW though. I figured he fit right in, but as has been mentioned, WCW was in a state of changing to a more mainstream promotion as opposed to Southern wrasslin', so it's easy to see him being in the WWE and making a better living w/o the in-ring work he'd do in WCW.

 

[SHANE]

I think Jerry Lawler could have found some success in WCW. I picture him being over somewhat like Lord Steven Regal was. Doubt he'd get a big push to the top back then. Would have loved to see him do a program with Savage.

Being in the WWF to battle Bret right away, then finding huge success as an announcer... He followed the right path.

 

[justtxyank]

The reality is that in a big promotion, Lawler went as far as he could have. He wouldn't have been any bigger in WCW than he was in the WWF, because at the end of the day he wasn't as good as the other stars and didn't have the look. He was rarely "in shape."

He was a good fit in a regional promotion where guys are often not in shape and you can get by with sloppy brawls.

He could have been a success in WCW, just like he was in the WWF, until the rape charge. Same thing would have happened. He would have been short circuited.

He was a better fit for WCW in the mid 90s of course, but that doesn't mean he would have been any bigger of a star.

 

[rmp0012002]

If he went to WCW as a wrestler he would have just been lost in the shuffle with everything else going on but a better chance as an announcer. He made the right choice as WCW would eventually fold.
To say no one knew about Lawler isn't true. They might not have known he was a legend in Memphis but after his angle with Kauffman he was very well known. I believe he still owns Memphis and never sold that to Vince.
WWE was just a better fit for Lawler as he could get over more using his speaking talents rather than limited in ring talents.

 

[The Captain]

Lawler wasn't going to be an in ring success no matter where he wrestled.. too old school and slow moving for how wrestling evolved in the 90's... WWE really succeeded in maximizing his talents and making the announce team a much more important part of the overall show. (What happen?!)

I think if Jerry was in WcW he would have probably won a few mid card titles, maybe became a manager at some point and if he stuck around would have eventually been shuffled into the nWo.. probably into a role similar to what they did with Ted Dibiase.

Im sure like everyone else he had his chance... good he didnt.

 

[Vader]

I never saw Lawler as much of a draw. When I was a kid someone local access channel broadcasted his USWA promotion which was decent, or more of a novelty I guess. The guy is entertaining on the microphone, but looking bad everything he did with Bret, and the Warrior was really just annoying and filler. You're talking about a guy who's finishers were a pile driver and some lame jumping punch from the turnbuckle. His in-ring work seemed more like malingering from the 80s.

 

[Daggdag]

I think that he would have been over more, but I doubt he would have seen much more success. He was already in his 43 when he signed with wwe. He may have gotten a world title run or 2, in wcw, but I doubt if he would have been pushed very hard at that age when there were many more marketable guys on the roster.

 

[FromGlasgow]

Its difficult to find his time in the WWE a failure when he's worked there for 23 years give or take a few months, I enjoyed his fued with Bret Hart crossing back and forward into the USWA changing from face to heel I had never seen that done before or since and actually won the PWI feud of the year in 93, I do think he seemed to tone down his wrestling career in the late/mid 90s and concentrate more on commentary but to be honest I couldn't imagine anyone else on commentary with Jim Ross during the attitude era which he contributed to a lot I think it wouldn't have been the same with anyone else. Its difficult to tell how it would of went in WCW I'm sure he would of been succesfull anywhere in wrestling but a lot of guys were getting lost in the shuffle in WCW during the late 90s time.