Would Dolph Ziggler Be As Successful If Eddie Guerrero Hadn't Passed Away When He Did

[prosenfi]

Now, I don't mean to knock Eddie or his passing, but looking back on it, it seems like it actually benefited Dolph Ziggler's career. To give a little recap, around the time Eddie Guerrero died, Chavo Guererro was playing the character of a middle class Caucasian named Kerwin White. The storyline was that Guerrero was sick of being oppressed as a Latino and was essentially throwing away his Latino heritage. It was a golfer gimmick, and his caddy was young kid by the name of Nick Nemeth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV3jZNgrnf8&feature=related

Now, it didn't take a psychic to realize that this gimmick wasn't going anywhere, and it wouldn't be long until Nemeth got future endeavored. However, then tragedy would strike and Eddie would pass. This caused Chavo to drop the Kerwin White gimmick and go back to being a Guerrero. Nemeth would fade into the background and debut a year later as Nicky of the Spirit Squad. This gimmick was that they were a group of male cheerleaders originally debuting to protect Jonathon Coachman. They eventually went on to defend Vince and Shane McMahon against the likes of DX and others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj42Tnq2JwY&feature=fvwrel

Again, it wasn't the greatest gimmick, but it was entertaining. The Spirit Squad would go on to be tag champs on Raw until they were unceremoniously "sent back to OVW" by DX.

A year or so later, Dolph Ziggler debuted on Raw, before switching back and forth to SmackDown.

My question is, do you think Ziggler would be where he is now if Eddie didn't pass when he did? Also, it is quite ironic that Ziggler's manager is Eddie's widow, Vickie.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I'm not really seeing the connection here. It seems like you're almost trying to play that game in which you try to somehow connect everyone in Hollywood to actor Kevin Bacon, only you're substituting Eddie Guerrero for Kevin Bacon in this case.

I can't see Eddie Guerrero's death having any degree of impact whatsoever on Dolph Ziggler's career. Ziggler was initially signed to WWE because the brass believed that Ziggler brought something to the table. After he made his debut as Dolph Ziggler, he spent a lot of time getting built up into the star he's quickly becoming. Ziggler paid his dues in WWE, he's worked really hard to show what he has to offer, he's been patient and he's ran with opportunities that he's been given. Ultimately, the one most responsible for Ziggler's success has been Ziggler himself. As I aluded to, WWE has given Ziggler shots and he's made the most of them. He's grown over the past several months on the mic and has developed his character. Vickie Guerrero has helped Ziggler out quite a bit. She's generated intense heat both for herself and Ziggler, something that Ziggler now does on his own with or without Vickie. If the talent wasn't there, Ziggler definitely wouldn't be such a rising star.

So yeah..I really don't see what Eddie Guerrero has to do with anything when you get right down to it.

 

[bxbigshow]

IF Eddie didn't pass and Chavo's Kerwin White gimmick ran it's course to failure, you're assuming that Nemeth would've been Future Endeavored. There is no guarantee to that.

Nemeth was talented back then and in development in OVW, it could easily be believed that he would've been sent back down to Kentucky. It was in OVW where the Spirit Squad started, so it's possible that he still would be on the course he ran.

Now his most perilous point was actually when The Spirit Squad was disbanded. Remember the Squad was almost entirely a vehicle to get Ken (Kenny! Kenny Dykstra) Doane over.

So when the Squad broke up it could have easily been his only shot.

 

[loojceeb]

Haha yes, no offense, I agree with everybody here. Eddie's pasting did not have any impact on Dolph Ziggler at all, maybe just the fact the now Eddie is gone, WWE is in debt to Vickie Guerrero so that's way she was bought in. That is the only connection between Ziggler and Eddie. And if you do say that Vickie was the connection, then you must bring up Edge, Big show, Chavo, and Swagger because she was their manager. But I still don't see how Eddie affected Ziggler. How are they even related? Thats like me saying that because Elvis Presley died, Justin Bieber had a major push and is now a top artist. It doesn't make any sense. Or even, because JFK got shot, Obama is the first black president of the United States thanks to JFK. I mean, come on, really?

 

[Ultra Awesome]

For the pure sake of not following the trend here, I'ma go to state a way in which Eddie's death did miniscule-ly affect Ziggler's career. And that's through Vickie Guerrero. Had Eddie not died, chances are, Vickie would have never gotten involved with the WWE as much as she has to this day. She woulda remained the housewife raising her two girls as Eddie would go traveling across the country with the WWE. Ziggler, now in present times would have no manager and would, probably, have less rising stardom than he has at the moment. After all, Vickie is kinda the one responsible for helping Ziggler get as much heat as he does now.

But in the end, as Jack-Hammer said, it's quite an irrelevant point because he'da still made it to where he is now eventually. Somehow. I mean, he does have the talent.

 

[kokoBawesome]

I get where prosenfi is going with this and I think benefited is the wrong word. This is more like Deacon Batista / Reverend D'Von situation. The Dudleys got back together so Batista was dropped from a gimmicky angle and given an chance to do something less.... worthless.

Ya know the more I try to defend this guy, the stupider this sounds. I guess Edge benefited the most from Eddie's death if we're gonna play this game. It opened up a world title spot and gave him a manager years before Ziggler. Maybe we can start a thread about how TNA is the result of Owen Harts death (fill in the blanks on your own). Maybe Marty Jannety trying cocaine for the first time led to the NWO (do That math).

The point is that while Ziggler's career has been affected by Eddie's passing, the caddy angle was dead on arrival, he would have joined the spirit squad anyway, and he would have became Dolph Ziggler eventually, just without a manager.

 

[Alastor]

The one person that benefited the most from Eddie's passing is Rey Mysterio. Before Eddie's death nobody would consider Rey for the top titles in WWE. Rey's ceiling was most likely to be the mid card titles and the occasional feud with main event/upper mid card stars but never challenging for the heavyweight titles.

As for Ziggler, I think he made his way to his current position by paying his dues. He lucked out that during his earlier time on Smackdown there was a lack of star power so he was given opportunities there.

 

[Skinsley]

Jesus christ.... ive seen people try and put two and two together.... but you decided to go the "if it does not fit, use a staple gun and MAKE IT FIT!"route.
Firstly Kerwin White got plenty of Heat.... and if Eddie had not died...I think the gimmick would have continued for a while and made Chavo a pretty decent comedy Heel.

Ziggler's character has Debuted 3 times....once as Chavo's caddie....another in that group of gay wrestling cheer leaders....and again as Dolph Ziggler.
This proves that WWE had seen his potential, and had every intention of trying to make a career out of the man.

So in short....NO I dont think Eddie Guerrero's untimely death had much to do with the success of Ziggler whatsoever.

 

[DeathClutch]

Utter bullshit, Dolph debuted 2 months after Eddie died as part of the spirit squad, 11 months later the faction disbanded and sent back to OVW, now we're talking a year+ since the passing of Eddie and Dolph was placed back in OVW? I'm losing the connection here.

Late 2008/Early 2009 3+ year after Eddie died and Dolph re-debuts with a new name and look and was pretty much at the bottom of the pack until 2010's Intercontinental title run, which he should of had in mid-to-late 2009 but Rey wouldn't drop the belt to him, what I'm trying to say is; No!! the only connection between Eddie and Dolph is Vickie, nothing more, nothing less.

Nothing about Dolph screams Eddie,

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Doesn't make any sense. If the gimmick was going to be scrapped anyways and he was going to fade into obscurity and be future endeavored......when the gimmick WAS scrapped regardless, why didn't he? NONE of that is dependent on eddie dying and doesn't make any sense.

that's like saying, "if I don't clap my hands does an antelope get eaten in Africa" well maybe, maybe not, but it only holds true in the absolute philosophical/hypothetical "you change one thing and history changes" type of way.

Ziggler is extremely talented. He carries his character well and sells his ass off in the ring. 2 things the WWE LOVES.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Eddie's death has nothing to do with Ziggler succeeding or not. Vickie did help him some but he still would have made it becaus he had the skills and talent to get where he is. The golfer gimmick and the Spirit Squad were obviously not going to last. They didn't release him so that means they saw something in him by bringing him back as Ziggler. Who is to say that he still would not be even more successful? Eddie himself might have taken Dolph under his wing and the two could have put on some good matches together. His world title reign that barely lasted a few minutes might not have happened, but he is on his way to the main event scene anyhow and would have gotten there regardless.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I give the OP credit for some original thinking, but it's difficult to believe Eddie's passing had any effect on Dolph Ziggler's career. Dolph's part as a caddy was too small and insignificant at that time for his career path to have been dictated by the passing of someone who didn't even participate in the angle...... honestly, I didn't even remember there being a caddy, much less remember it was Dolph in an earlier incarnation.

The only career truly affected by Eddie's death was his nephew, in that it provided a face turn for Chavo, albeit a short one. In any event, I can't believe the Kerwin White program would have lasted long anyway, as much as Nick Nemeth might have wished it would.

Interesting speculation, though.

 

[Showtime]

I completely missed the connection first glance and then I see what you were getting at... clever. I actually thought about this years ago when Dolph debuted.

It's had to speculate. WWE has a history of releasing or doing nothing with managers/body guard types, but Dolph was young at that time. Odds are the only real difference would've been no Spirit Squad for the former Nic Nermith. He probably would've wrestled a few months as Nic Nermith after the whole Kerwin White angle ran it's course and then probably be sent back down to development. He might've actually debuted Dolph Ziggler sooner if he avoids the whole Spirit Squard group so there's actually a chance he may have been a legitimate main eventer. Of course this is all purely specualtion. No one has any idea what would've or could've been. Alls I know is this thread once again reminded me of Eddie's death and now I am.... saddddddd...

 

[The Future Rises]

I'm not a big fan of these kind of questions. How are we supposed to know what would've happened had Eddie not passed?

The "Kerwin White" gimmick was a big failure anyway. So I'm guessing Chavo would've dumped it and Ziggler would've gotten sent back to OVW to get repackaged.

There really isn't much to it. No one knows what would've happened. But as to what I think would've happened, I think Ziggler would have went out on his own without Vickie Guerrero. And he'd still be where he is today in the upper midcard ready for that big main event push.

 

[mrpops]

I think you got the names "Rey mysterio" and "Dolph Ziggler" confused. No one except for Rey benefited from Eddies death. Eddie Died, and then no name charity case Rey suddenly wins the title. Im saying that since eddies gone, that opens up a spot on the roster and rey filled it.

One could argue that Chavo also got a minor push when he became chavo again and did tribute matches to Eddie fans for months on end....but then faded away to nothing.

I cant agree with Eddie death=Vicki= to the Doplh we know and love. We have no idea if vicki wouldve came back for more storylines regardless if eddie was alive today or not. Plus Doplh ziggler wouldve succeeded without her anyway.

Im sorry, but i just dont understand where you were trying to go with this thread.

 

[drobs85]

WHAT kind of stupid A** thread is this. Where is the connection. I could see if the Kerwin White deal actually went somewhere, three weeks if that maybe a week longer. Ziggler under a different name of course was already established with the spirit squad, proof being that he's still the only one in the wwe out of the group left. So to your almost potentially riot causing question due to stupidity if Guerrero were alive Dolph Ziggler would still be Dolph Ziggler, his theme would be the same, he still would damn near lose every week, only difference is he just potentially wouldn't have Vickie.

 

[shuckyducky]

I don't see why it would have to have led to his release if he'd continued in the gimmick, he'd surely have just gone back into developmental.