WM 29: Triple H (w/HBK) vs. Brock Lesnar [No Holds Barred / HHH's Career on the Line]

[TheHorndogSays]

Well there have ALWAYS been minor plot points in that regards "oh no you've attacked me and assaulted my wife, but instead of pummeling you I'm going to stare at you from the stage or sign this contract". The same could be true of the evil GMs of the past who could have simply made their stars champions easily. Look at Vickie and Dolph from Smackdown. She could have had the champion Edge battle dolph with his hands tied behind his back. I'm sure there are thousands more but those must be overlooked for the sake of storytelling. This Brock/HHH storyline has to be done so that HHH can be viewed as the underdog going into a match of Brock's choosing. Simply having them agree to a pre-determined match would not achieve the same goal.

 

[zhaff2004]

its not a plot hole, anything but... As the previous poster said, Trips will be out for revenge after all the crap he's gone through at the hands of Lesnar and he'll be confident that he'll win... I'm hoping for a "Control of WWE" matchup which sees Lesnar winning and handing control over to Heyman, which leads to Lesnar beating Cena (Who'll more than likely walk out with the strap at Mania) at a PPV down the road and then just leaving, taking the belt with him. This will, by default, make the WHC the most important belt on the shows, giving back the belt some prestige.

Around summerslam, Lesnar will return to face someone and lose. (I hear Rock/Lesnar II is slated for Summerslam) or something along those lines... Lesnar losing the belt causes him to go ape-shit, leading HHH to come back after falling into "the doldrums" after losing the empire his father in-law's family built. This leads to the final encounter at Survivor series, where its Team Heyman vs Team McMahon. Guys like Rock, Cena, HHH, Kane and Sheamus can join forces against team Heyman (Lesnar, Punk and perhaps the shield, who can remain undefeated until survivor series where they are the tag champions and have long since invoked the freebird rule) which leads to team McMahon winning and all being right in the WWE universe. This in turn leads to HHH gaining the full respect of Vinny Mc and, on-screen at least, has the company handed down to him by his father in law.

But alas, this storyline is too layered, too complex and lacks a quick, immediate pay-off for it to ever happen.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

Some of you aren't getting my point. Obviously, Triple H is going to accept it, and obviously Lesnar is going to choose a stipulation that doesn't affect match quality.

But I'm talking about kayfabe world here. Why on Earth wouldn't Lesnar choose some sneaky type of stipulation where he basically gets to beat up Triple H for a few minutes? Blindfold? Both arms tied behind his back?

But let's say Triple H knows Brock isn't a coward and he will do a straight-up fight. I have problems with this, because it involves Triple H TRUSTING both Brock and Paul Heyman of all people, but let's just go with it. What stops Lesnar from making it a "Triple H retirement match"? Or making Paul Heyman the Special Guest referee? Or putting Triple H in any other lose-lose situation.

Seriously, this is Paul Heyman we're talking about. It wouldn't make any sense than for Triple H to be put in a lose-lose situation. He could go with "if Lesnar wins, I take over WWE" or something like that, but it still involves a Win/Lose scenario. Why take the risk? When Triple H signs that contract, Heyman holds ALL THE CARDS.

If I was Paul Heyman and was keeping in mind that Lesnar wants a straight-up match, I would go with "If Triple H loses, he retires as a wrestler. If Triple H wins, he retires as COO." It would make no sense to give Triple H any sort of reward for winning.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

A "Saw your dick off to win" match sounds like something the early days of CZW would have had. This isn't the first time a heel has said "yes I accept" but asked to name the stipulation. It's just one of the many ways of adding a gimmick, and it'll make Triple H look even better when he beats Lesnar since Brock was the one that set the stipulation. From my perspective it was kind of silly for them to go this route in a way because the No DQ was set up perfectly by their brawl a couple of weeks ago.

But I'm talking about kayfabe world here. Why on Earth wouldn't Lesnar choose some sneaky type of stipulation where he basically gets to beat up Triple H for a few minutes? Blindfold? Both arms tied behind his back?

To answer your question you simply have to think about how Lesnar is portrayed. He's a barbarian that has no fear for the most part. He likes dishing out and taking punishment. He's beaten the best of the best and most of the time he's done so cleanly. He wants to punish Triple H for making him bleed and embarrassing him above all else. But he isn't without honor, he's already beaten Triple H... Now he wants to do it outside the rules of a normal match so he can inflict more damage... But of course we could just as easily be looking at this the wrong way and Brock could put a stip that if Hunter loses he must retire.

 

[Jimmy Carter]

If I was Paul Heyman and was keeping in mind that Lesnar wants a straight-up match, I would go with "If Triple H loses, he retires as a wrestler. If Triple H wins, he retires as COO." It would make no sense to give Triple H any sort of reward for winning.

Now this would make the rematch fresh and intriguing. Putting Triple H in a tight corner where he risks losing significantly regardless of the outcome significantly raises the stakes of their rivalry, and wisely allows Lesnar to look dominant even if his opponent beats the odds. If Triple H wants to rush into the lion's den one more time, we ought to see how his pride leads to destruction. Lesnar beat him fair and clean at Summerslam, so in order for Mr. McMahon-in-Law to satisfy his bruised ego, he must pay a hefty cost one way or the other.

 

[boywithbluehanger]

I'm under the impression that HHH is going to have an ace up his sleeve. After the recent return of the NAO and the news of X-Pac returning with a legends contract, there's got to be some sort of return at WM. I think they're waiting for the grandest stage to have DX do their first relevant act in years during HHH's time of need. Brock won the first two battles and by this 3rd encounter, he will have met his match when HHH's back is up against the wall. (The good version of) DX will come out and make the save for Hunter.

Especially after the attack on the NAO on RAW, I can't see any other way to go about wrapping up this storyline without making Lesnar look weak by losing cleanly.

 

[The Butcher]

But I'm talking about kayfabe world here. Why on Earth wouldn't Lesnar choose some sneaky type of stipulation where he basically gets to beat up Triple H for a few minutes? Blindfold? Both arms tied behind his back?

Because Lesnar isn't a beeyotch like way too many heels have been portrayed as being for way too long. He's got pride. He'll chose a stipulation that enhances him more than it handicaps Triple H.

 

[The Eighties]

According to a story on the front page the stipulation may be MMA based, my mind went immediately to the old Lion's Den match Ken Shamrock had with Owen Hart, although I doubt they will built a separate structure for Lesnar and HHH t fight in.

It seems logical that Lesnar would pick a stipulation that plays to his strengths but I'm not sure that type of match suits Triple H who is better when brawling.

 

[tgrfan]

This is just silly. If Triple H agrees, Lesnar could choose ANYTHING. What's stopping him from forcing Triple H's legs and arms to be tied to each other? Or having Triple H be taped to the mat? Or a "Triple H has to saw off his own dick to win" match? It would frankly be ridiculous for Triple H to say yes. And it would be even more ridiculous for Lesnar not to take advantage of Triple H's stupidity.

All in all, this is probably one of the most illogical plot points in a long time. And that's saying something.

Do you guys agree with what I'm saying, or do you think there's an actual reason as to why it isn't incredibly stupid for the kayfabe Triple H to say yes?

i agree with everything you said.for those saying lesnar wouldnt choose those kinds of matches because he is a barbarian type guy it still makes no sense.a heel no matter what type always tries to find the easiest way to win the match.just let the feud take shape no need to some stupid stipulation to make the feud work.this is just more over kill by wwe taking an already interesting match and putting to much into it.just let the guys feud,wrestle then be done with it.

 

[Wald]

I actually immediately just thought the stip will be a Triple H has to retire if he loses to be honest.

After we've watched Flair & HBK get retired on the biggest stage of them all I think it would be safe for us to assume that Triple H would be going out that way too.

Whether he does or not is another matter entirely. I assume that Lesner signing a new deal means he has to go over here. You can't keep calling him an unstoppable monster if he is 1-2 in his record since returning. I like the idea of him signing over his COO job to Heyman though, that could work wonders for the next year of the company.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Based purely on their exchanges two weeks ago, an MMA type stipulation would restrict them. They should have a very simple street fight.

I know HHH should gain some measure of revenge in this match, but at this moment in time I can't foreee anything other than a Lesnar victor. I just can't see him being 1-2 in matches since his return to the company.

 

[gurvinder372]

Stipulation?
If Triple H wins then Paul and Brock have to leave the WWE and never come back.
If Brock wins then Vince has to hand over ownership of the WWE to Paul Heyman.
It adds drama to the match and will make it different from the first one which had nothing on the line.

Only change I will do in this match is that Brock will tell HHH that if he loses he has to hand-over Stephanie to him along with the post of CEO.

This will anger HHH to no end, and it will be interesting to see how WWE take this if they decide to book HHH lose this match. Mcmahon drama has been missing from the ring for a long time now.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

If you're looking at this strictly from a kayfabe point of view, then you have to take into account certain common aspects of wrestlers.

Pro wrestlers are almost always portrayed as proud and extremely stubborn men who put persona, even familial, pride above anything else. In this case, Triple H has an opportunity to seek revenge against a man who not only "broke" his arm twice, but "broke" the hip of the grandfather of his three children. If anyone has ever had someone very close to you hurt, it's the most natural feeling in the world to want to get even.

As for the stipulation, again, you're thinking in real world terms. When you try to apply real world logic to a choreographed sport, you're sometimes going to find that they simply don't mesh. If Lord of the Rings was historical fact from everything to the talking trees to the One Ring and I found said One Ring, I personally doubt that I'd undertake what looks like a suicide mission to wander through the hellish wilderness to toss a ring into a volcano. The "logical" thing to do would be to toss the thing into the sea or dig hole about 20 feet deep and bury the son of a bitch. But, simply doing that wouldn't be a good story just like Brock Lesnar picking some lame stipulation like blind folding Triple H or having one arm tied behind his back wouldn't be a good match.

Pro wrestlers aren't portrayed as "ordinary people". For instance, if Big Show really and truly delivered a punch to someone with all his weight and power behind it, you're looking at pretty significant injury. However, when a pro wrestler takes such a punch, he has no lasting ill effects. Wrestlers are above the physical meekness of us "regular mortals".

I remember catching one of the Transporter movies starring Jason Statham a few weeks ago on television and if you sit there critiquing every little inconsistency and over the top action sequence, then you might as well not even watch the movie. Statham's character is, essentially, a man who seems to know how to do damn near everything from martial arts to riding a bicycle like someone would do in some X Games event, only without any of the mishaps and with perfect form and execution.

If you overthink much of the content in any movie or television show, then you're probably better off just reading a book or something. There's ALWAYS going to be something in which doesn't fit your "real world" perspective, including pro wrestling.

 

[Wald]

Kayfabe wise this is simple and makes perfect sense.

Triple H is the proud face trying to take on the dastardly heel Brock Lesner. Lesner plays up being a villain by adding this stipulation in, meaning HHH has to either swallow his pride and not take the match or give in and be forced to accept. Triple H is backed into a corner on it and has to accept or be branded a coward.

It's a pretty simple good guy vs bad guy scenario.

Not to mention, in a real world sense, wrestling stipulations do not trump a country's laws, so a 'Loser has to cut off their own penis' match wouldn't actually be allowed take place.

 

[rage72]

I get your point and let me explain why Lesner wouldn't make a stupid stipulation that leads HHH helpless. Lesner is a badass and wants to prove he is a badass at WM so he wouldn't do some chicken sh&& move by stacking the deck against HHH. The badass Lesner will want prove he is the toughest and will force HHH into Lesners type of match which is a MMA type fight. By doing that Lesner can say it's time for HHH to step into his world and there you have it the HHH/Brock match is set and no stupid stips are needed.

Some of you aren't getting my point. Obviously, Triple H is going to accept it, and obviously Lesnar is going to choose a stipulation that doesn't affect match quality.

But I'm talking about kayfabe world here. Why on Earth wouldn't Lesnar choose some sneaky type of stipulation where he basically gets to beat up Triple H for a few minutes? Blindfold? Both arms tied behind his back?

But let's say Triple H knows Brock isn't a coward and he will do a straight-up fight. I have problems with this, because it involves Triple H TRUSTING both Brock and Paul Heyman of all people, but let's just go with it. What stops Lesnar from making it a "Triple H retirement match"? Or making Paul Heyman the Special Guest referee? Or putting Triple H in any other lose-lose situation.

Seriously, this is Paul Heyman we're talking about. It wouldn't make any sense than for Triple H to be put in a lose-lose situation. He could go with "if Lesnar wins, I take over WWE" or something like that, but it still involves a Win/Lose scenario. Why take the risk? When Triple H signs that contract, Heyman holds ALL THE CARDS.

If I was Paul Heyman and was keeping in mind that Lesnar wants a straight-up match, I would go with "If Triple H loses, he retires as a wrestler. If Triple H wins, he retires as COO." It would make no sense to give Triple H any sort of reward for winning.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Wait, do we know what the stipulation is or whether or not HHH has agreed?

I think we need to let this play out before we start jumping to conclusions that the writers have come up with something completely nonsensical. Heyman is smart, Brock is prideful, HHH is both. I don't think the plans are for HHH to just accept blindly or Heyman and Brock to come up with something that makes Brock look like a complete pussy.

This is all just mind games, don't jump to conclusions. Enjoy it, hopefully we get some good writing followed by some great action. Personally I'm hoping Brock demands a Chyna on the Pole match. For those not familiar with how that works, it is basically a bar room brawl that takes place at the truck stop/strip club that Chyna is currently working at near the freeway.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

Wait, do we know what the stipulation is or whether or not HHH has agreed?

I think we need to let this play out before we start jumping to conclusions that the writers have come up with something completely nonsensical. Heyman is smart, Brock is prideful, HHH is both. I don't think the plans are for HHH to just accept blindly or Heyman and Brock to come up with something that makes Brock look like a complete pussy.

This is all just mind games, don't jump to conclusions. Enjoy it, hopefully we get some good writing followed by some great action. Personally I'm hoping Brock demands a Chyna on the Pole match. For those not familiar with how that works, it is basically a bar room brawl that takes place at the truck stop/strip club that Chyna is currently working at near the freeway.

The writers are obviously going to make it an actual match, but my point is that from a kayfabe PoV, Lesnar doesn't need to choose an actual match. He could most certainly have Triple H tied to the mat and just beat him senselessly until he feels like pinning him.

And for those saying that kayfabe Lesnar is too badass to do a stip like that, there is still nothig stopping him from forcing Triple H into a no-win scenario. He loses, he retires. If he wins, he retires. Why not? He holds ALL the cards!

I'm just saying. Anyone in Triple H's position should be cautiously expecting the worse and that's why no one in their right mind would even consider handing Lesnar a blank check like that.

 

[Wolf Pac]

Paul Heyman said "stipulations", not "stipulation", didn't he? This kinda gives me the impression that it's not a gimmick match Paul is talking about, it's probably gonna be something like "If HHH loses, he has to resign as COO and Lesnar gets to bang his wife and kill his dogs & cats and eat his children. If Lesnar loses, he leaves the company (as another way to get rid of him until Summerslam)" or some stipulation like that, that will make it predictable that HHH is gonna come out the winner. If he had said "stipulation", I'd probably then think that he meant a gimmick match.

I hope I'm wrong though, I hope it's gimmick match or a gimmick match with the "if this guy loses, he does this" stipulations.

Been saying it for ages and I'll say it again, I want to see these two compete inside a Hell In A Cell. After every personal attack on HHH's friends and family, it's only fitting this intense rivalry is settled inside a big, brutal enviroment like this. And as we've seen before, both these guys are animals inside the Cell. We could see some really good things come out of the Cell between these two.

If not a Hell In A Cell match, then I wouldn't mind it being a Last Man Standing match cause we've never seen an LMS match before at Wrestlemania.

Whatever these "stipulations" are though, I expect this will top their Summerslam match and be an awesome match. And I also expect that we'll see Stephanie, Vince, Shawn, and the Outlaws all run-in at the end to get their revenge on Lesnar and help HHH win, which would be a great and fitting conclusion to this feud.

 

[i'm a cm punk girl]

HIAC wouldn't make any sense. HIAC is HHH's home. So since Brock and Heyman annouced that they get to choose the stip I think it will be something MMA related.

Hoping for I Quit, LMS, Street Fight.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I'm just saying. Anyone in Triple H's position should be cautiously expecting the worse and that's why no one in their right mind would even consider handing Lesnar a blank check like that.

I agree, my point was that I don't expect WWE to just simply have HHH agree to these unknown terms. HHH's character is not that stupid and prideful. On top of that, his character has way more on the line than just some wrestler and not that much to gain by winning. Maybe Brock and Heyman get HHH to agree using his anger similar to what HHH did to Heyman to get Lesnar in for SS. But my expectation is that HHH will at a minimum get Heyman and Lesnar to reveal the stipulation before he signs anything.

 

[Mitch Henessey]

I'm still leaning towards a submission match. Triple H has to prove something to Lesnar, not the other way around. Lesnar already beat him in the middle of the ring with Kimura Lock at Summerslam, so Triple H has a reason to fear Lesnar locking on a submission hold. Add in the fact Lesnar is a legit UFC Heavyweight Champion (could easily picture WWE really playing up Lesnar's MMA background on the road to Mania), and it's a HUGE advantage for Brock, and a big hurdle for Triple H to overcome.

Now of course this would lead to Triple H locking on a submission at Mania 29, causing Lesnar to tap out for the win. Yeah, I know, the hate for Triple H will be unreal afterwards, and it sounds like a corny ending to this feud, because...well, it is a corny ending.

But storyline wise, you have to think about a submission match as a realistic possibility. Lesnar "broke" Triple H's arm twice. After Summerslam, Lesnar broke HHH's spirit, and more recently, Lesnar attacked HHH's father-in-law. Simply landing the Pedigree for a 1-2-3 isn't going to be enough. No, Triple H needs to punish and embarrass Lesnar, and beating him at his own game would be the sweetest form of revenge.

 

[WWE4EVA!]

1. I would like to see Triple H vs Brock Lesnar II as long as Triple H wins and avenges the Summerslam lose and the beat down on Mr McMahon.

2. Like you I like the idea of a Three Stages of Hell Match but I do not really see that happening since there has not been a match of this type since 2009 which is 5 years ago, If not a Three Stages of Hell Match I think it should be a Hell In a Cell or No DQ Match, I know people will say we do not need another Hell In a Cell Match at WrestleMania but I think it would be more physical and better than the one last year because both Lesnar and Triple H will be able to have a fast paced match unlike Taker last year.

3. I thin Triple H needs to win this one because he lost at Summerslam.

 

[MCMG]

HIAC wouldn't make any sense. HIAC is HHH's home. So since Brock and Heyman annouced that they get to choose the stip I think it will be something MMA related.

Hoping for I Quit, LMS, Street Fight.

HIAC is in a cage... Lesnar has been crazy successful in UFC and has beaten the Undertaker in HIAC a few years back. It makes loads of sense to have this in HIAC.

I can't see HHH fighting putting his fists up and having a proper fight. It would create extra publicity for Mania but I can't see HHH being able to pull it off. For me, this is a simple Hell in a Cell match. Lesnar will have to use some of his old moves - this is Mania and they have to put on a 5-star match.

 

[Parasrampur]

So it was revealed that this match is a No Holds Barred match and if HHH loses then his career is over lol.

Maybe it's just me but I'm abit disappointed, I was expecting it to be HIAC or a 3 Stages of Hell match I mean after there poll in wwe.com I didn't think it would be anything otherwise.

 

[Mitch Henessey]

Eh, not a fan of the career being on the line stipulation. If anything, I think it's a giveaway to the ending of the match, and it's more obvious and likely for Triple H to emerge as the winner. With the odds stacked against him and his career on the line, Triple H defeated Lesnar to avoid early retirement, and avenge the McMahon family name (and Shawn too, I guess).

Although, I'm glad they went with a stipulation that will allow both men to beat the living hell out of each other for a heated and very personal feud (should've had a no holds barred stipulation between Orton and HHH at Mania 25, man that still pisses me off). Their match at Summerslam felt like a street fight after Triple H's "just let us fight" warning to the ref. But the rivalry has become more intense and personal this time around, so I'm expecting an all-out war from Triple H and Lesnar.

It'll be a triumphant victory for Triple H, because I honestly can't picture him losing this match. He lost at Summerslam, had his arm broken twice, the same thing happened to Shawn, and Lesnar attacked his father-in-law. This match is about payback and vengeance for Triple H, and it's that simple in my book.