Winter is Coming - The Night is Dark and Full of Spoilers

[Mighty NorCal]

They played the game of faces. Arya's giving Sansa the cat's paw dagger confirmed it. They bought time having the audience think otherwise, but the entire thing made sense.

Huh?

 

[George Steele's Barber]

If anyone can break down how the Arya - Sansa - Littlefinger arc made a lick of fucking sense, I'll owe you a fruit roll-up

It was all a ruse to keep Littlefinger overconfident.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Made sense to me. Then again, I refuse to think too deeply about this absurd (yet fantastic) show.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

It was all a ruse to keep Littlefinger overconfident.

The extended interaction between them that he never witnessed ? If they got all that info from (presumeably) Bran, then why the fuck do all this at all ?

 

[Mighty NorCal]

WHAT was the knight kings plan before the dragon came into his possession?

Why on Goddamn earth did Tyrion think he would be able to convince Cersei ?

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Little Finger is the world's greatest eavesdropper. Makes perfect sense for the Stark girls to keep up the ruse in case he was listening in. One false move and LF could have headed for The Vale and escaped justice.

Since most of us thought the White Walkers would find a way around the Wall anyways, having a dragon just made things easier, and cinematic. Wildlings like Osha could get passed The Wall, so could an army.

Even Jaime believed Cersei was on board. Not odd for Tyrion to think he was successful.

 

[A11oftheLights]

Can we just fucking tell Jon that he is not a bastard already. Fuck me I'm glad its finally been confirmed but for fucks sake. And why was Tyrion so worried about Jon fucking Dany. Would that not be the most ideal situation for him? The only two other people who want the fucking world to be better than when they left ruling together, or is Tyrion just meant to be the audience as we realise that Jon is fucking his aunt. Screw calling him aegon too, Jaehaerys makes so much more sense. I'm fucking over this storyline we've known forever that Jon aint Snow and its been dragged out for 3 seasons.

I dont know how I feel about the ice dragon. On one hand i feel like its awesome but I also feel like its just another piece of fan service

 

[A11oftheLights]

And also sam didnt fucking know of the annulment he completely skipped over it when told about it. If you are going to have that scene with him and bran why not have that scene with him and Gilly actually be when he found out about it

I think georgie boy aint got much to do with the show anymore.

"The wall's kept these things out for eight thousand years and there's no really reason it can't keep doing that unless something puts a hole in the wall," Weiss explained. "There's one thing on the board from the beginning that is now big enough to do that and that's a dragon." As such, Weiss said that having the undead dragon blaze a hole through the wall "just started to suggest itself as a logical way forward."

Two things about that
1. Why didnt they just ask GRRM how the white walkers get around the wall
2. Things just suggesting themselves as logical ways forward sounds like an excuse for "we know the end game not how to get there and are just making it up as we go"

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Can we just fucking tell Jon that he is not a bastard already.

He had to bang his aunt first.

Fuck me I'm glad its finally been confirmed but for fucks sake. And why was Tyrion so worried about Jon fucking Dany. Would that not be the most ideal situation for him?

In the long run yes, but not at this point. If you want to unite the North with a "foreign invader" it is best not to show that you might be thinking with your dick.

Other reasons:
1. There is still a lot of work to do and the prospect of marrying Dany could bring more allies to the table
2. Tyrion loves her. Ok, probably not.
3. Relationships are complicated, look at what he went through with Shae.
4. Jon is a bastard and may not be the best person to legitimize Dany's claim or hold on the throne. Optics.

In summary, Tyrion's reaction makes total sense.

The only two other people who want the fucking world to be better than when they left ruling together, or is Tyrion just meant to be the audience as we realise that Jon is fucking his aunt. Screw calling him aegon too, Jaehaerys makes so much more sense. I'm fucking over this storyline we've known forever that Jon aint Snow and its been dragged out for 3 seasons.

Do you throw fits when people you know have kids and don't name them what you want?

I dont know how I feel about the ice dragon. On one hand i feel like its awesome but I also feel like its just another piece of fan service

Why do you watch this show?

And also sam didnt fucking know of the annulment he completely skipped over it when told about it.

You assumed he toned Gilly out. He didn't. He just didn't think what she was saying was relevant since he doesn't watch the show and therefore never conceived that the information would mean anything.

If you are going to have that scene with him and bran why not have that scene with him and Gilly actually be when he found out about it

Huh? Because as we already know, the wedding and birth took place at two different points in time at two different places with different people involved. They had to put two and two together.

I think georgie boy aint got much to do with the show anymore.

I don't know but clearly since they don't have his books to copy and paste....

Two things about that
1. Why didnt they just ask GRRM how the white walkers get around the wall

How do you know they didn't Bran?

2. Things just suggesting themselves as logical ways forward sounds like an excuse for "we know the end game not how to get there and are just making it up as we go"

Isn't this how most people write long works of fiction? Did George Lucas create the Millenium Falcon and then decide that Luke should blow up the Death Star?

You really shouldn't watch this show.

 

[Lee]

You really shouldn't watch this show.

I want to say that to so many people.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Little Finger is the world's greatest eavesdropper. Makes perfect sense for the Stark girls to keep up the ruse in case he was listening in. One false move and LF could have headed for The Vale and escaped justice.

Since most of us thought the White Walkers would find a way around the Wall anyways, having a dragon just made things easier, and cinematic. Wildlings like Osha could get passed The Wall, so could an army.

Even Jaime believed Cersei was on board. Not odd for Tyrion to think he was successful.

Ok so...show him eavesdropping then? The way it was framed made no sense.

No they couldn't. The wall was imbued with magic that repelled them. Not the case with wildlings.


I meant in the first place. His idea to go to try to convince her in the first place BUT ALSO the whole WELL GO AHEAD AND KILL ME THEN deal

How the fuck did Bran need Sam to tell him about the annulment and then marriage?

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Tyrion was worried about John and Dany because it's just another factor, another weak spot. She risked herself once already to go help them beyond the wall, and now they are full-on in love.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Ok so...show him eavesdropping then? The way it was framed made no sense.

If they showed him doing so, fans would have caught on rather quickly that it was all an act. Arya was trained to be this stealthy assassin. It would have been odd for LF to continuously have the drop on her. Even moreso than Sansa, who is now supposed to be this smart character who was under LF's wing. If he was seen on-screen the whole time, fans wouldn't have thought there were legit problems with the sisters. The show messed with viewers to get us to think his plan was working all along.

It may not be altogether satisfying, but it made sense to act a certain way in case they were being watched.

No they couldn't. The wall was imbued with magic that repelled them. Not the case with wildlings.

Didn't touching Bran end all that? They were going through that wall regardless.

A dragon breaking the wall is 100% more satisfying then them walking around it, which many thought would happen.

I meant in the first place. His idea to go to try to convince her in the first place BUT ALSO the whole WELL GO AHEAD AND KILL ME THEN deal

Tyrion was distraught over Tommen and Myrcella dying. He was also told his entire life he was the reason their mom was dead. It was overdramatic, but not out of character.

He was being a bit sacrificial there going to her alone and thinking he could convince her, but it made sense. And to every other character it appeared that it worked.

It's drama. Easily the queerest way to go about a truce but made for better tension than say The Onion Knight going to Cersei.

How the fuck did Bran need Sam to tell him about the annulment and then marriage?

That and Cersei's Looney Tunes ass doublecross plan is what bothered me the most about the finale. I just assume Bran was more focused on Jon being a Targaryen instead of watching how exactly it went down. He's not as god tier as he assumes. Only thing I can get from it.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Huh?

Two words. Aegon Targaryen.

Huh?

The extended interaction between them that he never witnessed ? If they got all that info from (presumeably) Bran, then why the fuck do all this at all ?

Like Varys, it's presumed he has a network of informants. Go back and watch some of the Arya/Sansa scenes. Doors are left open, or words are said so loud that it can't be a coincidence. A girl doesn't become no one in order to clumsily give herself away repeatedly unless she wants to be heard. Perhaps some of the tension was real (like the conversation in their parents' old chambers), but I think they caught on along the way and ultimately played Baelish.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

The thing is, we are left to extrapolate all this for ourselves. Which is handling the situation sloppily.

 

[JGlass]

The thing is, we are left to extrapolate all this for ourselves. Which is handling the situation sloppily.

The whole situation definitely calls for an Ocean's 11-esque flashback sequence showing all the times Arya and Sansa were acting like everything was cool but really they were hatching their secret plan.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

The whole situation definitely calls for an Ocean's 11-esque flashback sequence showing all the times Arya and Sansa were acting like everything was cool but really they were hatching their secret plan.

100% bang- on correct

 

[It's Damn Real!]

The thing is, we are left to extrapolate all this for ourselves. Which is handling the situation sloppily.

The whole situation definitely calls for an Ocean's 11-esque flashback sequence showing all the times Arya and Sansa were acting like everything was cool but really they were hatching their secret plan.

Yet we have no issue doing this in wrestling when a face turns heel by often citing weeks' or months' worth of hints and transgressions that might have logically supported his or her eventual turn.

I guess I just don't see the big deal here. To me it was obvious as could be from the moment Arya was spying on Baelish from the stables in which she stood in the fucking window staring at him. Again, a trained assassin standing in the light within clear eyeshot of him? Why do this if not intentionally? She's either crafty (she is) or an idiot (she's not anymore).

 

[Барбоса]

There was plenty foreshadowing of LF getting Littlefingered.

Both Arya and Sansa had seen him whispering with the major players of the Vale and North. Sansa's conversations with him, particularly the last one, are also full of her getting him to essentially incriminate himself by encouraging her to isolate and then kill Arya.

I did feel, like the rest of the season, everything was rushed. 10 episodes rather than 7 would have solved those problems, as well as the characters teleporting the length and breadth of Westeros.

The Wall came down too easily for me.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

The whole situation definitely calls for an Ocean's 11-esque flashback sequence showing all the times Arya and Sansa were acting like everything was cool but really they were hatching their secret plan.

Oceans 11?!?! That's bullshit. This situation definitely called for Arya to get unmasked and do a reverse Scooby Do ending.

 

[Барбоса]

Do we really think that something which has been in front of us from the start is going to happen, given the direction of Jon, Dani, and the Night King?

The Great War to be settled at the 'Battle Where Winterfell'?

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Given the amount of shit which still needs to happen (which frankly, i find disappointing) and the lack of distance needed to travel between the wall and Winterfell, I have to think the Great War is fought over an entire episode, likely episode 2.

Then again this is GOT. Prob just end up with more talking and then never fight the battles at all.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

BTW Barbs, it's a damn shame we didn't do a GOT recap weekly podcast on Chrome Dragon.

It's big business, that.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Happy to see hype back on the menu.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I didn't mind the wall falling so easily. It didn't make the wall look weak, it made the ice dragon look like a monster to be reckoned with.