Will we ever have another real innovative match concept developed again?

[RicSpade]

Since WWE's day of WWF, we have had the survivor series tag match, the Battle Royal, the Royal Rumble, Cage Matches, Last Man Standing, I quit, Hell in a Cell, Casket Matches, TLC, Ladder match, Tables Match, Elimination Chamber, MITB ladder match, Iron Man Match, Leather stap match, inferno match, Boiler Room Brawl, Hardcore, Kennel from Hell, Punjabi Prison, Falls count anywhere, Parking Lot Brawl and buried alive matches.....

Point being there have been a lot of innovative matches, and a lot of firsts, now not all necessarily came from WWE at first, but do we think we will ever see a new innovative concept match? TNA had/has king of the mountain they put a spin on things, WCW had war games and that triple cage thing from that terrible movie,ECW had barb wire matches so do you think we will have a match that could be innovative like that again? I wanna hear your thoughts on what the most innovative match concept you can come up with is, and try not be far-fetched or something that can never truly be concieved.

Personally I think if we were to have a new match concept I want to see a match with tag teams, I think like a save your partner deal or something with the winner being the team who saves their partner (maybe he's caged or cuffed or something I dunno) and then gets to a buzzer on a pole or something....ok probably not the best example but let me hear yours

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I'd say that there are probably quite a few innovative gimmick match ideas around. The problem is that just because something is innovative doesn't automatically mean that it's good. As a result, the problem lies in trying to look among all the lousy ideas, or ideas that seem lousy, to find the few that hold promise.

As far as gimmick matches that are seen in WWE, I'm of the opinion that what needs to happen is to ultimately do away with the ppv concept of a show revolving around a gimmick match. Personally, I think that WWE has ultimately gotten as much as they can from the gimmick named ppvs. I think doing so could restore some of the anticipation of such matches. Part of the attraction to some of those matches was the notion that they could be employed on any ppv at anytime, such as the Elimination Chamber or Hell in a Cell. For instance, people were genuinely thrilled at the notion of Taker vs. Triple H inside Hell in a Cell for WrestleMania 28. Nobody expected it and there'd been only one Cell match at WrestleMania, a lackluster clash between Taker and the Big Boss Man at WrestleMania XV. When it was announced, the crowd popped huge for it. While it might not have been as physical as many other past Cell matches, the story told more than made up for that in my eyes.

A few alterations in the formula of the matches could also breathe some degree of freshness into them. For instance, maybe divide the Royal Rumble into two separate battle royals comprised of 15 men each with the winners of each match facing each other in a "best of" series of matches to determine who earns a shot at WrestleMania. Also, since WWE insists on going on with the MITB ppv even though there's only one World Championship now, they could always have an MITB ladder match where the winner can choose between the IC or US titles, or whichever's left if WWE ever unifies them. These ideas aren't originals or anything but, as I alluded to, a minor tweak here and there might be all that's needed for a while.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

I'm sure there will be more great gimmick matches in the future...Elimination Chamber and Money in the Bank aren't very old, for instance. I'm sure most will build off of other gimmick matches we've seen in the past. Jackhammer brought up the main problem with gimmick matches in the WWE today: They are tied to a PPV, and therefore they must happen at those events even if there is no truly good feud to warrant the match. When that happens, the match is devalued. Gimmick matches work best when there is an element of surprise to them. I liked Hell in a Cell better when it was brought out only once every other year or so when the circumstances truly warranted a match of that type. Hell in a Cell between CM Punk and Ryback ... not so much.

 

[TheICChampion]

Even if they are tied to a PPV or "special event", it's not necessarily a bad thing sometimes. I agree that sometimes they just throw wrestlers together into certain matches just because there has to be that type of match at a PPV, but it's far and away better than throwing those same wrestlers together in a normal match at ANY PPV. You notice that all the gimmick-themed PPVs are the ones that have stuck around the longest (not counting the Big 4, obviously)? Hell in a Cell (2009), Night Of Champions (2007, I believe), TLC (2009) Money in The Bank (2010), Elimination Chamber (2010), and Extreme Rules (2006, if you count One Night Stand). Now, granted, the PPV's that they replaced were around quite a while, but my point is that in this "lazy booking" day and age, these gimmick PPV's are the ones that have been around a while because it's usually the matches that these PPV's are centered around are one of, if not the main/only selling point of the PPV. Now, regarding new gimmick matches, I'm thinking just put some twists on matches that are already established. For example, if WWE were to finally do war games, put it inside Hell in a Cell. Instead of having just one coin flip to determine who gets the advantage for the entire match, why not have one every period until one entire team is in the cage? You could see matches that are 4-on-1, 4-on-2, etc.

 

[Torgo]

WCW had war games and that triple cage thing from that terrible movie

Lol you mean the THUNDERCAGE???

do you think we will have a match that could be innovative like that again? I wanna hear your thoughts on what the most innovative match concept you can come up with is, and try not be far-fetched or something that can never truly be concieved.

Yes, I belive there will be more new gimmick matches. Hell, we just had a sort of new one with the Wee-LC match at extreme rules. Frankly, I'd like to see an old school cage match with the old blue bars cage instead of the modern chain link.


Unrealistically wwe should have a Flatbed Truck Match, where the ring is on a moving truck doing 45 down the road. Just an interesting idea.

 

[GOOZEKING]

An underwater basket wheaving match..... First to make their basket wins

 

[Radical]

First of all, I like some of the gimmick matches as themed PPVs.

The ones I like are: Elimination Chamber, Money in the Bank and Extreme Rules.

I think Elimination Chamber because it is the PPV before WrestleMania it always has a lot of momentum behind it whoever is in the match and it is a brutally interesting match to watch.

Money in the Bank is a pretty cool concept. I like it because it is timed pretty well. It is not TOO soon after WrestleMania for everybody to worry that a new Champion could happen right away but it gives one (or two) guys a push without technically holding a title, which is important, IMO. It also gives the opportunity for a dozen or so Superstars to get exposure. Guys like Tyson Kidd, Justin Gabriel, Heath Slater, Sin Cara, Evan Bourne and more have been able to do some cool things in MITB matches and hopefully turn some heads. Even if they have no chance of winning it it is a good way to add some cool highlights to their personal highlight reels which could come in handy if they get a big push.

Extreme Rules I like because what can I say? I enjoy a hardcore match. If they aren't going to bring back the Hardcore title and they are PG TV so extreme rules matches are a rarity in WWE I like they still have at least one PPV where they get extreme.

The ones I don't like are: TLC, Hell in a Cell and Night of Champions.

Yeah, TLC and Hell in a Cell matches are usually a good spectacle but I just feel it is a lot harder to have a mandatory TLC or Hell in a Cell match make sense all the time these PPVs roll around. I know it seems like a fine line but I think TLC and Hell in a Cell matches would be much better on a PPV only IF it makes sense for a particular feud.

As for Night of Champions. I absolutely hate the fact that WWE has to remind themselves to put all the Championships on the line at at least one PPV a year. I think every Championship should be on the line at EVERY PPV except if the Champion is injured or maybe in October, I think, when there are two PPVs a month. Otherwise, WWE should shoot to have a title match for each title at every PPV. They only have 3 damn singles men's titles, 1 tag title and 1 women's title. It is NOT hard to have them all on the line at each PPV, not to mention I have a feeling they are going to unify IC and US soon anyway so they better damn well be defending them every PPV.

Secondly,

WILL there ever be another innovative gimmick match? Yes.

Always something new that they can come up with in the Pro Wrestling business. Even though it wasn't really a match, maybe they WILL have match at somebodies 'home' like when Triple H went into Randy Orton's home but actually have both people aware of the match and make it falls count anywhere.

 

[TheCookieMonster]

There was a thread similar to this a week or two ago. First off, i think that there will be another gimmick match, and that there will always be innovation with match types. It's the rule of evolution (no pun intended). I don't know when another match will be created, or what it will be like, but I know that as long as wrestling is around new match types will be too.

I also agree with the notion of stopping gimmick PPV's, they cheapen the gimmick matches, and also often feel forced, or unnatural. I think that doing away with gimmick matches would add quite a bit of variation, and also add interest to PPV's, especially the smaller ones.

Finally this is the idea of a new match I had in the previous thread

Picture a ring that is twice as high off the ground as a normal ring, then above this, is another smaller ring. You start with 30 men wrestling outside the ring and once someone gets a pinfall/submission they can move to the next ring. If you enter the next level without a pinfall/submission you are then eliminated from the match. Also, if you are knocked off of a level, you must pin/submit someone to ascend again. At the top level you could either have a title/contract hanging or just be required to pin/submit someone on that level to win.

I think this would be interesting, as you can include a lot of talent and also have a lot of good spots. I have no idea how to build the structure, but I am sure it could be done. I would call it a Pyramid Match. Also, I am really enjoying this thread. Great idea!!!!

 

[JBM]

Picture a ring, surrounded by hot lava. The goal is to throw your opponents out of the ring and into the hot lava. The contestants are those who are on the annual "future endevors" list. The winner, gets a 5 year, multi-million dollar contract. The losers are out of the WWE, and WWE doesn't have to worry about them going to TNA, or Jarrets new promotion. Now imagine what kind of neat tricks Kofi Kingston could do in this type of match to avoid elimination?!?!

On point...I'm not a serious fan of wrestling, but I tune into most Raw's, and will watch the periodic PPV. My favorites are WM, RR, and MITB. SummerSlam can be allright, but it's got to have the right set of matches for me to watch. I loved Survivor Series back in the day, and would probably watch more of it if they went back to the old format....but that probably won't ever happen. As for the rest, like EC and ER...I just don't have the desire. Most of the regular PPV's are just ways to continue story lines on a higher platform, and for WWE to make $$$. There is little creativity put into the majority of the matches, and rarely put out that shock value that I enjoy. But that doesn't mean there isn't a place for the concept. Lets say they merged MITB with SummerSlam, and put the Elimination Chamber in with Extreme Rules...now you're getting viewers like me more interested in the whole product.
Bring back KOTR at Survivor Series, cause it makes sense to be there along with some other gimmick matches like an Iron Man Match.

I'm sure WWE will be able to come up with new, creative gimmick matches, but they don't have to right now because there is no sizable threat to their dominance of sport entertainment. Also, I like the idea of a MITB match being used for every title. I've wondered a few times, why they don't have a MITB match for each strap, to include the Diva's.

 

[kadroan]

Since WWE's day of WWF, we have had the survivor series tag match, the Battle Royal, the Royal Rumble, Cage Matches, Last Man Standing, I quit, Hell in a Cell, Casket Matches, TLC, Ladder match, Tables Match, Elimination Chamber, MITB ladder match, Iron Man Match, Leather stap match, inferno match, Boiler Room Brawl, Hardcore, Kennel from Hell, Punjabi Prison, Falls count anywhere, Parking Lot Brawl and buried alive matches.....

Point being there have been a lot of innovative matches, and a lot of firsts, now not all necessarily came from WWE at first, but do we think we will ever see a new innovative concept match? TNA had/has king of the mountain they put a spin on things, WCW had war games and that triple cage thing from that terrible movie,ECW had barb wire matches so do you think we will have a match that could be innovative like that again? I wanna hear your thoughts on what the most innovative match concept you can come up with is, and try not be far-fetched or something that can never truly be concieved.

Personally I think if we were to have a new match concept I want to see a match with tag teams, I think like a save your partner deal or something with the winner being the team who saves their partner (maybe he's caged or cuffed or something I dunno) and then gets to a buzzer on a pole or something....ok probably not the best example but let me hear yours

I wouldn't be surprised. A good opportunity would be for the Cena/Wyatt feud. Faced off in a traditional one on one match, cage match, maybe perhaps Wyatt could create a match type of his own to give himself an advantage over Cena and future competitors.

 

[Judah's Lion]

Jackhammer is right. some matches just need minor tweaks.

Inferno Match was created and implemented just after Mania 14 in 1998. in 2013, Bray Wyatt competed in a match against Kane called Ring of Fire. the ring was surrounded by fire, similar to the Inferno Match, but this time the match was decided by pinfall or submission as opposed to lighting your opponent on fire. same match concept, just a minor tweak.

MITB and TLC are really just tweaks of the original Ladder Match. Hell in a Cell and Elimination Chamber are really just tweaks of Cage and War Games Matches.

so some of our favorite match types are just tweaks of basic match types. TNA had some fun ideas in the Ultimate X and Elevated X. those were just tweaks of the Ladder and Scaffold Matches. ROH has Ladder Wars.

Cage Matches have added barbed wire to the top of the structure. again, minor tweak.

i'm a huge fan of lengthy matches, such as Iron Man, Gauntlet, 2/3 Falls and Best-of-# Series.

i think there will be more innovative match types in the future. people are just too creative and the supply/demand is just too great from the fans.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Since WWE's day of WWF, we have had the survivor series tag match, the Battle Royal, the Royal Rumble, Cage Matches, Last Man Standing, I quit, Hell in a Cell, Casket Matches, TLC, Ladder match, Tables Match, Elimination Chamber, MITB ladder match, Iron Man Match, Leather stap match, inferno match, Boiler Room Brawl, Hardcore, Kennel from Hell, Punjabi Prison, Falls count anywhere, Parking Lot Brawl and buried alive matches.....

Point being there have been a lot of innovative matches, and a lot of firsts, now not all necessarily came from WWE at first, but do we think we will ever see a new innovative concept match? TNA had/has king of the mountain they put a spin on things, WCW had war games and that triple cage thing from that terrible movie,ECW had barb wire matches so do you think we will have a match that could be innovative like that again? I wanna hear your thoughts on what the most innovative match concept you can come up with is, and try not be far-fetched or something that can never truly be concieved.

You seem to have your history a bit messed up. Last Man Standing was not a WWE creation per se, that match, especially in the form of Texas Death was common in the NWA in the 70s & 80s. Iron Man Matches basically are just an extension on the Best Of 3 Falls concept common throughout wrestling promotions in the 70s & 80s. "I Quit" matches clearly were not a WWE creation, at least not in the post Vince McMahon Jr/Hulk Hogan era, as the most famous "I Quit" match of all time was in 1985 (NWA US Title Tully Blanchard vs Magnum TA). Leather Strap (also known as Russian Chain, Indian Strap, and Chain matches) were common in the NWA in the 80s as well. Ladder Matches actually started in Canada and the first well known in the US was in 1987 (NWA Great American Bash event, Tully Blanchard vs Dusty Rhodes). Hell In A Cell was basically just WWE's version on the old school, 80s NWA No Disqualification Cage Matches. Barbed wire was also used as a gimmick in NWA matches in the 80s.

Most of the "Gimmick" matches are in fact created as a way to heighten the violence in a match (making them ideal for a feud ending blow off match). Since WWE these days is kid friendly like they were in the 80s (when things like Chain & Strap Matches, Barbed Wire, etc were never held in WWE) I Doubt we will see anything new. Matches that test the skill level of the performers (like Best Of 3 Falls, Iron Man, etc) can only be done by a handful of people and fans generally are not as interested in those matches unless the participants are top level stars (fans might watch John Cena vs Randy Orton in a match like that but likely will turn off Albert Del Rio vs Jack Sawgger in that kind of encounter).

With no viable competition to WWE in the US and WWE itself in a less violent era of promotion, I doubt anything new will be created anytime soon.

 

[berlinbrawler]

I vote for a 10-Men-Elimination match. Same principle as elimination style Triple Threat or Fatal Four Way matches, except with 10 blokes. Could, of course, also be 15 or 20 guys or whatever. If done right, this could be amazing. It shouldn't be just another 30-45 minute match. String it out to 90 minutes or more, with alliances forming and falling apart (before and) during the match.

 

[RicSpade]

I never meant that Last man standing was created by WWE, just like I quit wasn't a WWE thing because Terry Funk and Ric Flair did it first. But the flatbed idea in a way has already been done, Dustin Rhodes vs. Bunkhouse Bunk (Smash from Demolition) did that match where they were in the back of the truck with haybails they had a helicopter or something followed, and then whoever honked the horn won...

Guess whatever new concept does come up I can be excited about...

 

[SoulTrain4]

I don't see a need for more gimmicks. Just use the ones you have better.

If you can do some tweaks to a match-type to make it more interesting that's fine too but I don't want WWE going WCW or TNA and over-gimmicking match types for shock value.

Remember the Punjabi Prison?

 

[alex_green]

I wouldn't be surprised. A good opportunity would be for the Cena/Wyatt feud. Faced off in a traditional one on one match, cage match, maybe perhaps Wyatt could create a match type of his own to give himself an advantage over Cena and future competitors.

You mean like Brawl in a Barn?

It doesn't matter about any gimmick matches because they have this stupid PG rating they opted to have to get the younger viewers.

Until they get rid of it there will be no serious look at new gimmick matches.

However... If they were to do a gimmick match they need to look at something that TNA do like the feast or fired even hold it at MiTB all the titles shot in different cases.

If they want more gimmick matches though they need to bring back the cruiserweight division IMO

 

[@smarkmouth]

Aside from tweaking current matches, our programmed mindset when it comes to gimmick matches is that it needs some tangible structure; a cage, a ladder, an ambulance. These things are cool to look at, for sure. But like Judah's Lion pointed out, there are some great marquee matches that don't call for physical gimmicks.

If I were to sit in my fantasy booking armchair and had my arm twisted into conjuring a new match, I'd say a one on one match between champion and challenger. The catch; two special guest referees from the current roster. Whichever ref makes the official pinfall or submission call becomes the new number 1 contender.

This could end up as a clusterfuck of booking, but if we want to call for a new gimmick match, it best have the potential to tell a story. Here's a mental image; the ref/new number 1 contender raising the hand of the victor/champion.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The problem is that there is only a finite number of ways a match can end and that is somewhat limiting. It's either pin, submission, escape, top rope or some variation and most have been tried. Inherently any new idea is based on an old one.

One that I think could up the ante for Cena/Wyatt is an enforced DQ match, with the idea being to make your opponent lose control and use the weapon... where one of them snaps and gets DQ'd and they go until someone does... might play into the Wyatt wanting Cena to snap and show his ugly side, that the only way he can win is to get so nasty that he forces Wyatt to snap himself and attack him with the chair etc... but if he loses control himself, he loses the match. Admittedly it can only work for those 2 but it might be a very interesting idea if done right.

Most "gimmick" matches suck in today's climate because things are so tame, even the Chamber seems a pussywhipped version of itself and HIAC is barely used anymore. The NWA/Early WCW did them great, Bunkhouse Brawls, Wargames, I Quit and Texas Death Matches... the WWF languished far behind with Blindfold matches, Nightstick on a pole and didn't even run a Triple Threat until 1997. They upped it with HIAC but Foley and Shawn killed it as quicly as it began, 2 matches, 2 serious injuries... so it was toned down... even TLC's got tamer as time went on.

There isn't really even one "unique" match that is out there, bar the one above because DQ's are so rarely used.

 

[Jimmy Carter]

Gimmicks, gimmicks, get your gimmicks here. There's plenty of outlandish material to explore. Here are a few ideas from my startup promotion:

Lobotomy Match: Medical equipment and manuals scattered throughout the ring area. Must perform a lobotomy procedure to win. Correct lobotomies count as pinfalls, botched ones as submissions.

Fist Blood Match: Kind of like a first blood match. Winner is first who gets his hands covered in the opponent's blood.

Vampire Match: Winner must swallow a pint or more of the opponent's blood.

High Times Match: This should be RVD's specialty. Cage match where the winner must ascend all four corners and take a full rip (clearing the chamber) from the bong mounted at each corner. All four must be done in succession - any interruption restarts the count.

Enema Match: All wrestlers are given full enemas (containing dyes that match their usual ring attire) immediately prior to the match. Winner is the first who can execute a suplex/slam/maneuver that causes his opponent to void his bowels. More than two competitors dictates the winner will be the man with the last enema intact.

I have tons more, but we'll let those ideas stew for now...

 

[alex_green]

I think TNA got it right with their gimmick matches back in the old 6 sided ring days. King of the Mountain Matches, Feast or Fired, Ultimate X.

If the WWE could adapt those into there own company if would make for interesting viewing IMHO.

But as i've mentioned before WWE is PG rated and won't do anything to jeapordise it as they want the younger generation to watch where as the oldies are used to watching and seeing high octane violent bloody and extreme matches.

 

[Crypt Keeper]

I would love to see the Championship Scramble match return. I thought that was a pretty awesome match concept and I'm baffled as to why they haven't booked as many because I would've thought it'd take off.