Why not Ziggler vs Lesnar?

[NxtBigThing]

After watching Dolph Ziggler vs Luke Harper tonight on Raw I was thinking could WWE going towards a possible Lesnar vs Ziggler matchup at Wrestle Mania? Before anyone shoots that down and cyber spits at me calling me a troll and says Roman Reigns is going to face Brock Lesnar at Wrestle Mania remember Batista was supposed to win the title last year at Wrestle Mania but plans changed. Reports also are saying some officials are questioning if Reigns is ready. So while I still think Reigns is currently the favorite to face Lesnar, I think Ziggler is very close to lapping Roman Reigns.

Why Ziggler you may ask? I say why not Ziggler.

Since Survivor Series Ziggler has been given the biggest push by showcasing his abilities, taking a beating and some how coming back even with the odds against him. Sure he lost against Seth Rollins recently, but Rollins got a heel win with some outside distraction which doesn't hurt Ziggler's credibiiltiy. The WWE is building up Ziggler as the man overcoming every challenge thrown his way. Make him an early number in the Rumble, have numerous close calls of him being eliminated, and have him shock everyone eliminating Reigns last. It be a shock like back in the day before the internet when you weren't always sure who would win. Make it interesting and have a furious Roman Reigns attack Ziggler after he gets eliminated since I think he would make a better monster heel than the happy face who comes back and wins.

Anyway, if WWE did go that route you'd have a great story line in a guy who takes a beating but somehow wins vs a man who does all the beating but wins. I think Ziggler could give Lesnar a way better match than Reigns and if the WWE was smart you keep the IC belt on Ziggler til Mania so after he wins you have him forced to vacate it against his will, because even though he has the World Heavyweight belt the IC belt gets even more credibility since the last holder is the current Heavyweight champion. Heck, even have Roman Reigns end up carrying the IC belt for a while and when he wins the Heavy Weight title someday it makes the IC title stock go even higher.

So do you guys think the WWE may be going in that route if they decide against Reigns or do you think I'm crazy in thinking the WWE would allow the concussion prone Dolph Ziggler to get in the ring with Brock Lesnar especially in the main event at Wrestle Mania?

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I just don't believe they have that kind of faith in him. He's a poor mans DB. Sure there's no doubt he's more over than he's ever been, but that doesn't mean he's big enough to face Lesnar, and likely beat him, at WM31. DB was way more over than DZ is now, and whether that legitimately forced WWE's hand or not, it made a perfect storyline. DZ is not on that level.

I'm not saying Reigns is either, but he's still more likely to face Lesnar.

Also, if by chance DZ were to face Lesnar for the WHC, I'd say there's a much bigger chance at a WM cash in happening.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

If Lesnar is going to hold the title at Mania, and if he is leaving post-WM, and if DB is not returning I can't think of anyone who would be a better foil to take the title off of Lesnar at Mania. Reigns, Rock, and Cena don't have the WM smark support. Making it Sting would bury the roster. Ryback isn't trustworthy enough. Ambrose isn't ready. Orton may be a good choice.

With all the results I've read and seen over the past three months makes me thing Ziggler is getting the best push of his career. His promo tonight putting over the IC title is just one of those simple things that is going to make the WM smarks love him that much.

We will see. There is still alot left to happen. As much as I could see this happen, I could also see it getting the secondary main event slot.

 

[NxtBigThing]

Fire Marshall Bill, well alrighty then...haha. Sorry just had to say that. Anyway, I do agree with your point that Ziggler isn't as over as Daniel Bryan was last year, but the fans are behind him and receives one of the top pops at the events. Let me ask you this. Do you think if the WWE threw the fans a curve ball at the Royal Rumble and had Dolph Ziggler or someone else win like a Dean Ambrose that the shock alone would give them that added push which would make fans get behind them to dethrone the monster Brock Lesnar? People talk about Roman Reigns look, but Dolph Ziggler reminds me a bit of Shawn Michaels who was the face of the company at one point. While it wasn't during a popular era it still led to the last big boom pro wrestling had. I see a lot of people thinking WWE stinks and while I agree there is a lot of junk I do think there are a lot of good young guys both in WWE and NxT that if given the right story lines and characters we could be close to the next boom period.

Maybe having more shocking moments where the WWE finds a way to throw off the wrestling news sites and go a different route that still is believeable (not like a Santino winning the Rumble) may make wrestling a bit more entertaining with never really knowing what route they may be going.

 

[NxtBigThing]

With all the results I've read and seen over the past three months makes me thing Ziggler is getting the best push of his career. His promo tonight putting over the IC title is just one of those simple things that is going to make the WM smarks love him that much.

While I agree Dolph's promo was good, I was thinking if he brought up the fact that with Brock barely defending the Heavy Weight belt that he is truly the top guy since he is the Intercontinental Champion and he sets the bar. That be short, simple, and to the point.

That right there could have been the shot that starts the Wrestle Mania build up of having Dolph Ziggler trying to over come the odds and beat Brock Lesnar. There is still time but I felt that would have been a great opportunity to show McMahon that he wants the brass ring with that statement. Like I said earlier, I think this Wrestle Mania season is similar to last years and that someone besides Reigns is walking out of Wrestle Mania as champion, because as much as I like Roman Reigns I'm with what seems like the majority that says he isn't ready yet.

 

[BuriedByCena]

I would be very happy if Ziggler got the Rumble win and beat Lesnar at mania. He is much better in the ring and on the mic than Reigns. Ziggler has a great look, he is a young handsome man who is ripped. He has been around long enough. He is not green like Reigns. He has earned it.

Ambrose is a good second choice because he is crazy and hardcore. If they made the match a hardcore match or something, it would be believable he could beat Lesnar after like 50 chair shots.

Ryback has the look, is huge, is over with the crowd, has decent mic skills and knows more than 6 moves. That is double the amount Reigns knows.

All 3 are great choices to go over Lesnar if The Rock is not available.

Cena is not an option at this point. He already had 50 matches with Lesnar. HHH...NO. UnderTaker....NO.

Orton is a good option. I would be okay with that.

As long as Rollins cashes in and beats the face right after they beat Lesnar I am happy.

 

[shafe_41]

Why not Ziggler/Lesnar? It's not believable that's why. You have Lesnar that beats the bejesus out of Cena three times in six months if he wins at RR. Then you throw Ziggler at him? The ONLY thing that I would believe is Ziggler beating Lesnar in a ladder match so he doesn't have to be pinned. But that cheapens the win over Lesnar and there's no purpose in putting those two in a ladder match. So then what does that say about your posterboy in John Cena when he can't beat Lesnar... but Ziggler can? The size difference is too great to make it a feud I would buy into. Even pushing Ziggler to the moon would not allow be to believe he could beat Lesnar but Cena can't.

 

[NxtBigThing]

Shafe I agree Dolph Ziggler beating Lesnar is not realistic. However, in reality anyone on WWE's roster is unrealistic in beating Lesnar since Lesnar is a proven real athlete that has won both the NCAA Heavyweight Championship and the top MMA promotion UFC's Heavyweight title. He isn't just a big former football player he is a big former combative champion. Name another superstar on WWE's roster that can say that. Not one. However, Dolph Ziggler did wrestle at Kent State and did hold their win record for awhile. While he is smaller and not as accomplished as Lesnar he is quicker. If only the strong guys won then most of the current UFC champions wouldn't be champions. While in a real fight strength helps, I would take quickness and technique even with a size and strength disadvantage. Dolph Ziggler vs Brock Lesnar if done correctly could be the equivalent of Rocky Balboa vs Ivan Drago where it looks impossible for the good guy to win but their heart over comes the beating and takes advantage when the champion starts to tire from the beating they been giving. Don't forget Dolph Ziggler is a former Heavyweight champion so it helps make things a bit more believable.

You want to know how you make Dolph Ziggler vs Brock Lesnar believeable. You have an over confident Lesnar beat on Ziggler for the first 10-20 minutes straight but somehow Ziggler keeps kicking out and Lesnar due to his size starts to tire with Ziggler making a comeback then let the rollercoaster ride begin. There are games and fights where the under dog wins and Wrestle Mania has been known for that. Just look at guys such as Rey Mysterio and Daniel Bryan. Two small guys but they beat guys such as Kurt Angle, HHH, and both beat Randy Orton and this was not done on RAW but at Wrestle Mania my friend.

WWE is hurting right now. I think they need to take a gamble and save Roman Reigns push for a later date.

 

[kadroan]

After watching Dolph Ziggler vs Luke Harper tonight on Raw I was thinking could WWE going towards a possible Lesnar vs Ziggler matchup at Wrestle Mania? Before anyone shoots that down and cyber spits at me calling me a troll and says Roman Reigns is going to face Brock Lesnar at Wrestle Mania remember Batista was supposed to win the title last year at Wrestle Mania but plans changed. Reports also are saying some officials are questioning if Reigns is ready. So while I still think Reigns is currently the favorite to face Lesnar, I think Ziggler is very close to lapping Roman Reigns.

Why Ziggler you may ask? I say why not Ziggler.

Since Survivor Series Ziggler has been given the biggest push by showcasing his abilities, taking a beating and some how coming back even with the odds against him. Sure he lost against Seth Rollins recently, but Rollins got a heel win with some outside distraction which doesn't hurt Ziggler's credibiiltiy. The WWE is building up Ziggler as the man overcoming every challenge thrown his way. Make him an early number in the Rumble, have numerous close calls of him being eliminated, and have him shock everyone eliminating Reigns last. It be a shock like back in the day before the internet when you weren't always sure who would win. Make it interesting and have a furious Roman Reigns attack Ziggler after he gets eliminated since I think he would make a better monster heel than the happy face who comes back and wins.

Anyway, if WWE did go that route you'd have a great story line in a guy who takes a beating but somehow wins vs a man who does all the beating but wins. I think Ziggler could give Lesnar a way better match than Reigns and if the WWE was smart you keep the IC belt on Ziggler til Mania so after he wins you have him forced to vacate it against his will, because even though he has the World Heavyweight belt the IC belt gets even more credibility since the last holder is the current Heavyweight champion. Heck, even have Roman Reigns end up carrying the IC belt for a while and when he wins the Heavy Weight title someday it makes the IC title stock go even higher.

So do you guys think the WWE may be going in that route if they decide against Reigns or do you think I'm crazy in thinking the WWE would allow the concussion prone Dolph Ziggler to get in the ring with Brock Lesnar especially in the main event at Wrestle Mania?

You got an interesting idea. It makes sense from a storyline perspective, besides Reigns, he seems like the only face being built up to be great.

I just wonder would creative believe Ziggler is 2015's version of Daniel Bryan.

 

[Parasrampur]

I would rather orton vs lesnar. How am I supposed to beleive that a guy like ziggler can beat a beast like lesnar when the latter has dominated cena a guy that is meant to be the best.

I can beleive orton beating lesnar and that would be a feud that I would love to see but probably won't get the chance to

 

[Aquaman6686]

I would rather orton vs lesnar. How am I supposed to beleive that a guy like ziggler can beat a beast like lesnar when the latter has dominated cena a guy that is meant to be the best.

I can beleive orton beating lesnar and that would be a feud that I would love to see but probably won't get the chance to

For one thing, Dolph Ziggler is a highly accomplished amateur wrestler, and unlike Cena he can outwrestle Brock Lesnar. But something being "believable" should have ZERO bearing on a storyline. If we were talking about UFC, you'd have an argument. In WWE, that argument is invalid. Ziggler beating Brock Lesnar is no different than the dozen or so victories Rey Mysterio has over guys like The Big Show and Kevin Nash. If anything it makes more sense since Ziggler is a phenomenal amateur wrestler.

 

[Rane]

I for one agree that Dolph Ziggler is a worthy candidate to face Brock Lesnar at WM and believe he could carry Lesnar in one hell of a match whether booked to win or lose. Unfortunately I just can't see it happening because of the WWE's new obsession in Roman Reigns. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Reigns. I just think someone like Dolph Ziggler who is a young veteran in the WWE should be the next in line after Daniel Bryan had his WM moment this year. He has a great move-set, good mic skills and is over with the crowd, but he doesn't have the machine behind him.

 

[Sweettre15]

Let's also consider that Ziggler just beat one of WWE's "monsters" billed at 6 ft 5 275 pounds going by the name of Luke Harper...Brock is billed 6 ft 3 and 286 pounds whole Ziggler is 6 ft even supposedly.

Some bring up the booking of Brock at Summerslam but forget that all of that was damn near undone at Night of Champions because Cena looked like he had Brock beat prior to the run in.

Ziggler on the other hand is booked in a way where he can scratch and claw his way through difficult situations.

This match can not only build on their similarities which is having impressive careers in the amateurs but also on their difference being that Dolph will scratch and claw his way thorough the most unlikely situations such as beating "Giants" like Luke Harper while Brock is the relentless asskicker that takes pleasure in pulverizing his opponents.

This match is the kind of match that can start out on the mat and then cresendo into a Beatdown where Brock constantly cuts Ziggler off when he tries to mount offense until Ziggler reverses the F5 into the Zig Zag. What makes it "believable" or unbelievable is really how the match and feud is approached.

Either way, I'm way too hesitant to get my hopes up for Ziggler getting that spot at Mania.

 

[mral82]

My 2 picks for Brock would be either Randy Orton or Dolph Ziggler being the man whom takes the Title of of Lesnar. Who cares if it's not Believable go back and watch whom Brock's Last Reign was lost to Eddie 'Freakin' Guerrero of all people. It's Pro Wrestling you root for the under-dawg always. Plus the way it looks like Dolph might be that guy as after Dolph wins Brock takes him out and Seth cashes in as Seth and J/J Security now have The Heyman backing. So it would be awesome for Zigs to win at WM but most likely we'll get a guy whom doesn't deserve it Roman 'by gawd Rhino 2.0' Reigns be that guy which is dumb let Reigns vs Rusev at WM instead.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Given the way WWE management has handled Dolph in the past few years, it's kind of hard to know whether they foresee him competing at world title level. Yes, they've allowed it in the past, although his title reigns only lasted a day or so......and he was then dropped back down to mid-card.

I believe mid-card is where he belongs, and for all the good things we're reading about him now, Dolph is competing presently only for the IC title, right? This is where I think he belongs....and there's nothing wrong with carving out a career for himself at that level. He certainly has enough ring exposure; every time we turn around, there he is.

But if Brock Lesnar is truly leaving, he has unfinished business with people far more formidable than Dolph Ziggler, imo.

 

[Vader]

His character is a complete ripoff of Billy Gunn. How can your gimmick ripoff a midcard guy and you expect to be a main eventer?

 

[enviousdominous]

Notice how the WWE tends to create little tid-bits of storyline that aren't emphasized fully until they've committed to an idea that relies upon them. I'm speaking of the fact that Dolph isn't just being promoted as the guy who just won't quit, he's also being promoted as the guy who shows up more often than most everyone else because he loves that particular business.

All of what Dolph has emphasized about his character can work against nearly any potential opponent for WrestleMania, but I can see it working extremely well against Brock Lesnar. Brock is the arrogant mainstay champion who knows he can't lose, and is very "ho-hum" about how special being a champion is to him. If Dolph earns the world championship under any circumstances, the tears would be real.

Brock vs Reigns really doesn't work for me. I don't know about the rest of you, but Reigns' deadpan seriousness falls completely flat with me. A match with Brock would work, in that it would be booked as two unstoppable forces trying to overwhelm each other.

Bottom line: I'm a bigger fan of Rocky IV than I am Clash of the Titans.

 

[Softcore Holly]

I would rather orton vs lesnar. How am I supposed to beleive that a guy like ziggler can beat a beast like lesnar when the latter has dominated cena a guy that is meant to be the best.

I can beleive orton beating lesnar and that would be a feud that I would love to see but probably won't get the chance to

By that reasoning Orton shouldn't be believable either, after all if Cena is the best that naturally makes him > Orton, especially since Orton lost to Cena in their last match. So if we going to follow your line of thinking, how am I supposed to believe that a guy like Orton can beat Lesnar when he can't even beat the guy that was dominated by said beast?

I think if all my years of watching wrestling proved anything is that being "believable" isn't all that important. Was it "believable" that Eddie Guerrero beat Brock for the title in 2004? On paper hell no but Eddie was obviously popular enough, the talent was clearly there and it worked well as a storyline, so in general people didn't care about how "believable" it was. There's countless examples of this on the network: Popular face taking down monster heel despite how unbelievable it looks on paper. It's a classic recipe that worked before and considering how unbelievable everyone on the roster looks against Brock it's going to happen again on WM31 no matter who he faces. So whether it's Ziggler, Orton, Cena, or in the likely case Reigns you're going to have to let the whole believable thing slide quite a bit if you plan on enjoying WM31, or just plain pro-wrestling actually

 

[HORRORHOLIC]

Why not Ziggler/Lesnar? It's not believable that's why. You have Lesnar that beats the bejesus out of Cena three times in six months if he wins at RR. Then you throw Ziggler at him? The ONLY thing that I would believe is Ziggler beating Lesnar in a ladder match so he doesn't have to be pinned. But that cheapens the win over Lesnar and there's no purpose in putting those two in a ladder match. So then what does that say about your posterboy in John Cena when he can't beat Lesnar... but Ziggler can? The size difference is too great to make it a feud I would buy into. Even pushing Ziggler to the moon would not allow be to believe he could beat Lesnar but Cena can't.

I'm so sick of the whole "it's not believable" stuff. It's WWE, the same place a midget bull just pinned Goldust, Triple H was held upside down in a car by a crane and dropped only to appear the next night,The Undertaker sat up after taking countless finishing moves, a 5'3" Rey Mysterio beat a 7 foot Kevin Nash/Big Show etc... it's not real and it's always been about suspending disbelief. Plus if the wrestlers are good enough which Lesnar and Ziggler are, it's their job to make you believe it. WWE has always been about the underdog babyface beating the unbeatable monster, and that's what a Ziggler vs Lesnar match would be all about.

 

[Woodstuff]

How am I supposed to beleive that a guy like ziggler can beat a beast like lesnar when the latter has dominated cena a guy that is meant to be the best.

Cena isn't always going to be the top face of the company. Beating a guy that the biggest star in the company couldn't beat would establish Ziggler as a true main event superstar, and that's what WWE is building to.

 

[bioshock]

Ziggler is already beating guys who are bigger than Brock in size. And one thing that Ziggler could use kayfabe is that he has more stamina and can take everything Brock can offer, let Brock tire himself out. That idea seems real. Plus I think overall Brock vs Ziggler would be a far better match than Brock and Cena.

Anyone thinking they are suppose to believe, as if its suppose to be real. 5'3 Mysterio winning the Rumble, beats Nash, Big Show, fake is fake, its about putting on a good show which Ziggler does as good as anyone.

 

[Vader]

I'm not saying the guy doesn't have potential but he has to have a gimmick adjustment. It was especially dumb when Billy Gunn came back.

 

[Radical Canadian Goose]

I actually suggested this a little while back in another thread. I am all for it, as he has the fans strongly behind him right now. At the very least, have a triple threat with Ziggler, Lesnar and one of Reigns/Orton

 

[karayo]

Before WrestleMania, I would have agreed that a battle between Ziggler and Lesnar would have been epic, specially seeing Ziggler take the bout. However, let's remember that Lesnar is the one who conquered the streak... And don't get me wrong, Ziggler is an extremely good athlete, but the person that beats Lesnar after he beat the Undertaker must be someone who is just in another level.

 

[Messiah]

Why not Ziggler?.. It's very simple, Lesnar would kill him.. There would be no more Dolph Ziggler after he faces Lesnar.

They need a true challenger for Lesnar, not some worthless nobody like Dolph Ziggler.