Why does YOUR favorite wrestler beat Stan "the Lariat" Hansen?

[Remix]

Somebody else proposed The Undertaker, but I'm going to champion him as well.

Why could The Undertaker beat Hansen? Because he's bigger, stronger more agile and tougher than Hansen. I'll deal with each of these points in turn.

Size

The numbers speak for themselves, as a 45 yearold man with bad hips, knees and every other bodypart in a bad way, he's 300 pounds. for most of his career he was over 320. I believe Hansen was 305. Likewise 'Taker's got 7.5 inches on Hansen. Add 'Taker's abilities to these mumbers and The Ball's firmly in 'Taker's court.

Strength

It cannot be argued that the Undertaker is one strong motherfucker. Not saying that Hansen isnt, but 'Taker is that much stronger.

Take this video:
[YOUTUBE]E7m2DurHXP4[/YOUTUBE]

Taker's strong enough to Chokeslam and Tombstone Mark Henry (who's comfortably got 90 pounds on Hansen) Say what you like about Hansen's strength and the versitility of his lariats, but the one place he isnt hitting a lariat is when The Undertaker holding him upside down and drives his skull into the canvas. And even if one Tombstone isnt enough, Taker's more than capable of delivering many Tombstones in rapid succession, such as he did to Kane in their first match at wrestlemania. After one tombstone, Hansen isn't going to be able to stop 'Taker delivering more until he's finally out cold for the three count.

Agility

For a man his size, Taker is a gymnast. His agility is one area that he's got Hansen beaten by a country mile. Admitedly some of the moves that showcase this would be little more than invitations for the latiat (walking the ropes would be suicide. He'd get pulled off and lariated in mid air), but 'Taker's agility advantage is a massive one. Especially combined with 'Taker's strength advantage and toughness.

Toughness

The Undertaker will has been wrestling for 26 years, 20 (In November) of which were in WWE. In those 20 years, Taker has wrestled with some of the best submission artists in america. He's wrestled with Bret Hart, Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle, William Regal, Ric Flair and Chris Jericho, among others. YOu know how many times he's tapped out? Never. That alone speaks volumes about his toughness, as does his undefeated streak at Wrestlemania. The Undertaker is a hard bastard to put down. So's Hansen. However I think that the man from the darkside is that crucial bit tougher to knock down and out.

How the match would go

The fans would be behind Hansen. No denying that. He's a man who made his name in Japan. 'Taker has spent no siginifcant time there. However the crowd has never affected 'Taker, so that's irrelevent. THere's also one thing I've not mentioned about the Undertaker. He knows how to choke a bitch. In his arsenal He's got the gogoplata (which there's no way Hansen's letting him apply whilst he has his strength (and if he doesnt, 'Taker would go for the pin anyway)), the dragon sleeper (likewise, I expect) and most usefully, the triangle choke. Like the gogoplata he has to be on his back to lock it in. Unlike the gogoplata though, it can be applied much more easily from a strategically more useful location.

Observe:
[YOUTUBE]vhJs46mtyr4[/YOUTUBE](skip to 15 seconds in)

As you can see, The Undertaker is capable of choking out the Big Show from being pinned by the former. If 'Taker locks in the triangle choke, Hansen's had it. And I think that 'Taker can apply this legit (albeit not legitly applied) hold.

It'd be an epic and brutal match. However there's only one way its ending. With Hansen lying on his back, staring at the ceiling as The Undertaker celebrates his victory.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

I'll give the point to you that it is a bit hard to set up, especially compared to the lariat. What if he were to try the one executed to an opponent on the turnbuckle?
[YOUTUBE]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EpDu1klifIg&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EpDu1klifIg&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

Not bad. I don't see Hansen getting to the Top Turnbuckle without putting up a fight. And besides. Hansen's very top heavy and not built like the wrestlers Kobashi's put in that maneuver.

It's quite possible that Hansen will end up face towards the corner after Kobashi ducks a lariat. In addition, it's a lot easier when you're trying to execute it on someone who is a bit tired out. You've said it yourself that Hansen isn't the most athletic guy out there. Kobashi has kept himself in much better shape through his career then Hansen has. I'm not saying if you have a Kobashi with the Burning Hammer in his arsenal in his prime against a Hansen in his prime, Kobashi would win every time. I'm saying that in this new best of seven scenario, Kobashi would be the one to win 4-3.

I admire your case here but the thing is, that move, albeit effective, is still tough to execute on someone of Hansen's size. Not saying it's impossible, but Hansen's never been tired enough to let someone put him on his shoulders. I think that in the attempt to do it, Hansen would slip out, nail him with The Lariat and pin him. If he even gets to attempt the Burning Hammer at all.

 

[Mr. Truth]

You're a tough one to crack Lariat. While I'm not admitting defeat on this one, I will say that I haven't seen enough of Hansen's matches to say whether or not Kobashi has a shot of executing the Burning Hammer or not. You have seen enough of his matches so I'm going to trust you and say Kobashi has about as low a chance as any of getting Hansen on his shoulders. I'll concede this to Xfear to figure out some way for Kobashi to win.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Somebody else proposed The Undertaker, but I'm going to champion him as well.

Why could The Undertaker beat Hansen? Because he's bigger, stronger more agile and tougher than Hansen. I'll deal with each of these points in turn.

Hope your case is better than the last one. Because magic's not a factor in this. lulz.

Size

The numbers speak for themselves, as a 45 yearold man with bad hips, knees and every other bodypart in a bad way, he's 300 pounds. for most of his career he was over 320. I believe Hansen was 305. Likewise 'Taker's got 7.5 inches on Hansen. Add 'Taker's abilities to these mumbers and The Ball's firmly in 'Taker's court.

I'd say the height difference is less than 6 inches, but it's still significant. But Hansen's not above beating someone that can match his size. He'll be tougher to push around, but Hansen would still beat on him.

Strength

It cannot be argued that the Undertaker is one strong motherfucker. Not saying that Hansen isnt, but 'Taker is that much stronger.

Take this video:
[YOUTUBE]E7m2DurHXP4[/YOUTUBE]

Taker's very strong. Maybe even able to hit a chokeslam on Hansen, but who's to say that Hansen can't hit an elbow and short armed Lariat. What I've been getting at with most of my cases is that Hansen's move is a knockout blow and a quick one at that. Taker has a lot of strength, but the Lariat's knocked out strong guys like Dr. Death Steve Williams, Terry Gordy, and others.

Taker's strong enough to Chokeslam and Tombstone Mark Henry (who's comfortably got 90 pounds on Hansen) Say what you like about Hansen's strength and the versitility of his lariats, but the one place he isnt hitting a lariat is when The Undertaker holding him upside down and drives his skull into the canvas. And even if one Tombstone isnt enough, Taker's more than capable of delivering many Tombstones in rapid succession, such as he did to Kane in their first match at wrestlemania. After one tombstone, Hansen isn't going to be able to stop 'Taker delivering more until he's finally out cold for the three count.

No. The Tombstone would be near impossible to get Hansen in. One reason is that Hansen can fight that attempt and avoid it. The other is the top heaviness of Hansen. He's 300 lbs and it's centered in his stomach. Taker would have a rough time getting him up for anything except a chokeslam in my opinion.

Agility
For a man his size, Taker is a gymnast. His agility is one area that he's got Hansen beaten by a country mile. Admitedly some of the moves that showcase this would be little more than invitations for the lariat (walking the ropes would be suicide. He'd get pulled off and lariated in mid air), but 'Taker's agility advantage is a massive one. Especially combined with 'Taker's strength advantage and toughness.

You just nipped the agility argument in the bud. Old School would not fly with Hansen. If he was weakened and dazed, sure. But it still wouldn't pin him. Agility is overrated in this case just because of Taker's size.

Toughness

The Undertaker will has been wrestling for 26 years, 20 (In November) of which were in WWE. In those 20 years, Taker has wrestled with some of the best submission artists in america. He's wrestled with Bret Hart, Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle, William Regal, Ric Flair and Chris Jericho, among others. YOu know how many times he's tapped out? Never. That alone speaks volumes about his toughness, as does his undefeated streak at Wrestlemania. The Undertaker is a hard bastard to put down. So's Hansen. However I think that the man from the darkside is that crucial bit tougher to knock down and out.

I'll match toughness with any wrestler in the world against Stan Hansen. The main word used to describe Hansen is TOUGH. Taker is a tough sum bitch, but he's not tougher than Hansen. The only downfall Hansen may have is the ability to keep Taker down. He can take lots of punishment and the only way to keep him down would be to knock him out. And the Lariat can do the job. And tapping out's irrelevant as Hansen wouldn't go to tap him out.

How the match would go

The fans would be behind Hansen. No denying that. He's a man who made his name in Japan. 'Taker has spent no siginifcant time there. However the crowd has never affected 'Taker, so that's irrelevent. THere's also one thing I've not mentioned about the Undertaker. He knows how to choke a bitch. In his arsenal He's got the gogoplata (which there's no way Hansen's letting him apply whilst he has his strength (and if he doesnt, 'Taker would go for the pin anyway)), the dragon sleeper (likewise, I expect) and most usefully, the triangle choke. Like the gogoplata he has to be on his back to lock it in. Unlike the gogoplata though, it can be applied much more easily from a strategically more useful location.

Hansen would fight the choke submission tooth and nail. And I don't even know if Hansen's ever been submitted in a match. He probably has, but I don't know about it. I think it's going to be a slug fest. Taker will try to use his offense on Hansen, and Hansen will wait for a mistake and capitalize on it. Yes, Taker makes mistakes. Too many high risk moves. And the only finishers he may even be able to apply would be his chokehold or the chokeslam. No way Taker gets him in a Tombstone or a Last Ride. Period. This may be one of Hansen's tougher opponents and despite the near immortality of Taker, Hansen can knock Taker out, which has been done on a few occasions. And he could win the match.

Observe:
[YOUTUBE]vhJs46mtyr4[/YOUTUBE](skip to 15 seconds in)

As you can see, The Undertaker is capable of choking out the Big Show from being pinned by the former. If 'Taker locks in the triangle choke, Hansen's had it. And I think that 'Taker can apply this legit (albeit not legitly applied) hold.

I'll give you that. Hansen would be in trouble if that choke comes in to play. But good luck getting Hansen weak enough to do that to him. Because it won't happen.

It'd be an epic and brutal match. However there's only one way its ending. With Hansen lying on his back, staring at the ceiling as The Undertaker celebrates his victory.

Right. It ends with Taker trying a chokeslam after he's not able to lift him up for a tombstone and ends up hitting the Lariat for the win. Don't believe it can happen? Don't think Taker can be knocked out by Hansen's Lariat?

[YOUTUBE]1PJn8iuAK_E[/YOUTUBE]

You'll notice that JBL models his move set after him. I would too. And you'll see in this epic video that JBL knocked the Taker out numerous times with his 'Clothesline from Hell'. It can be done. And has been done. Hansen wins Via Lariat.

 

[Remix]

Hope your case is better than the last one. Because magic's not a factor in this. lulz.

I'll try.

I'd say the height difference is less than 6 inches, but it's still significant.

Hansen's billed as 6ft 3in, 'Taker's billed as 6ft 10.5. my maths is flawless. and agreed, it's significant

But Hansen's not above beating someone that can match his size. He'll be tougher to push around, but Hansen would still beat on him.

Agreed, Hansen a tough motherfucker and would hit 'Taker hard.

Taker's very strong. Maybe even able to hit a chokeslam on Hansen

glad we're on the same page.

but who's to say that Hansen can't hit an elbow and short armed Lariat.

and who's to say that 'Taker cant duck the oncoming lariat and hit a chokeslam.

What I've been getting at with most of my cases is that Hansen's move is a knockout blow and a quick one at that.

'Taker's sat up from knockout blows before. I honestly think that it'd take more than one lariat to make him stay down.

Taker has a lot of strength, but the Lariat's knocked out strong guys like Dr. Death Steve Williams, Terry Gordy, and others.

very true.

No. The Tombstone would be near impossible to get Hansen in.

Disagree. 'Taker can apply the tombstone to heavier wrestlers and he's applied it to top heavy wrestlers as well (e.g. Foley), no reason for 'Taker to not be able to tombstone him

One reason is that Hansen can fight that attempt and avoid it.

[YOUTUBE]BMJhBu1txj4[/YOUTUBE] Yeah, Taker knows a thing or two about fighting in and out of tombstones.

The other is the top heaviness of Hansen. He's 300 lbs and it's centered in his stomach.

and Mark Henry weich 396 pouinds and isnt exactly slim. Not to mention he's tombstoned Foley, who's likewise topheavy.

Taker would have a rough time getting him up for anything except a chokeslam in my opinion.

'Taker never goes for the Tombstone unless the opponent is already out of it. for example after a chokeslam, like you've admitted Taker can deliver. Your move on this front Lariat.

You just nipped the agility argument in the bud. Old School would not fly with Hansen. If he was weakened and dazed, sure. But it still wouldn't pin him. Agility is overrated in this case just because of Taker's size.

Agreed, 'Taker isnt pinning Hansen after an old school (and who the hell is, btw?). However, his agility is most definately not irrelavent. If nothing else, the Suicide dive could give Taker an edge, and oppertunity to whale on Hansen. Agilty, while not the defining feature of 'Taker's moveset is still important.

I'll match toughness with any wrestler in the world against Stan Hansen. The main word used to describe Hansen is TOUGH. Taker is a tough sum bitch, but he's not tougher than Hansen.

who is?

The only downfall Hansen may have is the ability to keep Taker down.

and UT has the ability to keep Hansen down.

He can take lots of punishment and the only way to keep him down would be to knock him out. And the Lariat can do the job. And tapping out's irrelevant as Hansen wouldn't go to tap him out.

'Taker's got moves to knock guys out. If Taker hits a spiked (i.e. jumping) tombstone, Hansen's out for the count.

Hansen would fight the choke submission tooth and nail.

when you're choking, you cant fight effectively. 'Taker was also able to hold on against a struggling Big Show. Hansens' strong but Big Show's stronger. Not to mention, the harder you fight a chokehold, the faster you pass out.

And I don't even know if Hansen's ever been submitted in a match. He probably has, but I don't know about it. I think it's going to be a slug fest. Taker will try to use his offense on Hansen, and Hansen will wait for a mistake and capitalize on it. Yes, Taker makes mistakes.

yes he does. He's human after all. Hansen makes mistakes too by the way. Taker could just as easily capitalise on one of them.

Too many high risk moves.

...The only two moves in 'Takers arsenal that could be considered remotely high risk are the suicide dive (used once a year) and the old school (which I've admitted could be a game over move if countered)

And the only finishers he may even be able to apply would be his chokehold or the chokeslam.

and the tombstone. Top heavy Hansen may be, but if you can Tombstone Mark Henry, Mick Foley and bodyslam Khali and The Big Show, I think Hansen isnt out of the question if he's dazed from a big boot or a chokeslam.

No way Taker gets him in a Tombstone or a Last Ride. Period.

Last ride? not a chance. Tombstone, yes.

This may be one of Hansen's tougher opponents and despite the near immortality of Taker, Hansen can knock Taker out, which has been done on a few occasions. And he could win the match.

yes, it could go either way. Hansen could definately beat 'Taker. 'Taker is definately capable of pinning Hansen though.

I'll give you that. Hansen would be in trouble if that choke comes in to play. But good luck getting Hansen weak enough to do that to him. Because it won't happen.

Would Hansen be able to stop it if 'Taker locked it in on him? I dont remember that match vs the big show (I could look it up though and check my hypothesis) but in a long match with both 'Taker and Hansen on the ground. Hansen crawls over and hooks a leg. Bam, triangle choke. It wouldnt be a move he'd try early on. It'd be a move he'd apply on a tired Hansen if the opertunity arose. It wouldnt be a move he'd conciously plan to lock in or go for. If he had the burning desire to try and choke a bitch, he'd try (and fail) to lock in the gogoplata.

Right. It ends with Taker trying a chokeslam after he's not able to lift him up for a tombstone and ends up hitting the Lariat for the win. Don't believe it can happen? Don't think Taker can be knocked out by Hansen's Lariat?

We've been here. Taker's picked up guys heavier than hansen and dropped them on their heads. The tombstone is definately an option here. The lariat's ability to spring out of nowhere's a big thing though. Howevertaker could reverse or duck the lariat, hit a big boot and then carry on with his moves of doom (boot, chokeslam, Tombstone(s), win). The reversal of a finisher goes both ways.

[YOUTUBE]1PJn8iuAK_E[/YOUTUBE]

JBL was trained by Stan Hansen. You'll notice that JBL models his move set after him. I would too. And you'll see in this epic video that JBL knocked the Taker out numerous times with his 'Clothesline from Hell'. It can be done. And has been done. Hansen wins Via Lariat.

hell yes Hansen's lariat could KO 'Taker. However, I dont think that one short arm lariat would have the momentum to get a three count. I think that it'd take two in quick succession to take him down for the three count. JBL also had a lot more momentum behind his lariats (as he bounces off the ropes first and runs at his opponents to deliver it). As I say, Hansen could certainly put 'Taker to sleep. Taker could do the same in more ways.

If you'd open the contest to people who debuted pre 05, I'd be championing Barrett. Who's certainly on the same (kayfabe) level of toughness. Even if he's certainly not as tough as Hansen is legitimately.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

I'll try.Hansen's billed as 6ft 3in, 'Taker's billed as 6ft 10.5. my maths is flawless. and agreed, it's significant

Hansen's billed as 6'5, 305 lbs. Has been his entire career. But you're right. It's a height advantage nonetheless.

Agreed, Hansen a tough motherfucker and would hit 'Taker hard.glad we're on the same page. and who's to say that 'Taker cant duck the oncoming lariat and hit a chokeslam. 'Taker's sat up from knockout blows before. I honestly think that it'd take more than one lariat to make him stay down.

Short armed Lariat? Yes. Running Lariat? No. As I showed you with JBL, Hansen could knock Taker out for a three count and win. Even you conceited that.

very true.

Glad we agreeed.

Disagree.

Go on.....

'Taker can apply the tombstone to heavier wrestlers and he's applied it to top heavy wrestlers as well (e.g. Foley), no reason for 'Taker to not be able to tombstone him

Foley and Henry are nowhere near Stan Hansen's level of wrestling skill. Hansen could be lifted possibly, but it would take a helluva beating for that to happen. Could it happen? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[YOUTUBE]BMJhBu1txj4[/YOUTUBE] Yeah, Taker knows a thing or two about fighting in and out of tombstones.and Mark Henry weich 396 pouinds and isnt exactly slim. Not to mention he's tombstoned Foley, who's likewise topheavy.

And neither could carry Hansen's jock strap. As I said, Hansen wouldn't let himself get into a spot where he would be put in that move.

'Taker never goes for the Tombstone unless the opponent is already out of it. for example after a chokeslam, like you've admitted Taker can deliver. Your move on this front Lariat.

True... but who's to say Hansen will be out of it? And as you said, it'll be tough to jump with Hansen in that move.

Agreed, 'Taker isnt pinning Hansen after an old school (and who the hell is, btw?). However, his agility is most definately not irrelavent. If nothing else, the Suicide dive could give Taker an edge, and oppertunity to whale on Hansen. Agilty, while not the defining feature of 'Taker's moveset is still important.

It can also be his downfall. Remember his dive against HBK? Exactly. Even if he would be able to execute it, he'd punish himself as much as Hansen, which would offset whatever damage he done with that move.

who is?

Nobody, IMO.

and UT has the ability to keep Hansen down. 'Taker's got moves to knock guys out. If Taker hits a spiked (i.e. jumping) tombstone, Hansen's out for the count.

Don't think he'll be able to jump and do the Tombstone with Hansen.

when you're choking, you cant fight effectively. 'Taker was also able to hold on against a struggling Big Show. Hansens' strong but Big Show's stronger.

Big Show is also too dependent on his strength and doesn't rely on ring smarts or toughness. Hansen does. And that's why he wouldn't let himself get into a spot to have to defend himself from a submission.

Not to mention, the harder you fight a chokehold, the faster you pass out.

If he's able to apply it.

yes he does. He's human after all. Hansen makes mistakes too by the way.

Not as costly as what Taker would make. Hansen doesn't dive over the top rope or walk ropes holding his opponents hand. Hansen's worst mistake would be underestimating what it would take to beat Taker. But Hansen rarely makes a mistake to cost him the match.

Taker could just as easily capitalise on one of them. ...The only two moves in 'Takers arsenal that could be considered remotely high risk are the suicide dive (used once a year) and the old school (which I've admitted could be a game over move if countered) and the tombstone.

The chokeslam's a risk, too. Not a high one, but a risk at being reversed so easily and being hit with a Short Arm Lariat. And yes, it would take more than one to keep him down. That's why he finished by going to the ropes and nailing him.

Top heavy Hansen may be, but if you can Tombstone Mark Henry, Mick Foley and bodyslam Khali and The Big Show, I think Hansen isnt out of the question if he's dazed from a big boot or a chokeslam.

Could concede this because Taker can lift a heavier guy. But won't concede that Taker wouldn't be able to hit the Tombstone. I mean, I have to, or else Hansen would lose.

Last ride? not a chance. Tombstone, yes.

Anything's possible. But this is highly unlikely.

yes, it could go either way. Hansen could definately beat 'Taker.

And chalk up one more for the good guys.

'Taker is definately capable of pinning Hansen though.

Taker's capable of pinning anyone. But he wouldn't pin Hansen. As tough and as brutal as Taker is, Hansen is tougher and more brutal and after beating each other within an inch of their lives, I say Hansen would come out on top as it's much easier to hit a Lariat than a Tombstone when you're weak.

Would Hansen be able to stop it if 'Taker locked it in on him? I dont remember that match vs the big show (I could look it up though and check my hypothesis) but in a long match with both 'Taker and Hansen on the ground. Hansen crawls over and hooks a leg. Bam, triangle choke. It wouldnt be a move he'd try early on. It'd be a move he'd apply on a tired Hansen if the opertunity arose. It wouldnt be a move he'd conciously plan to lock in or go for. If he had the burning desire to try and choke a bitch, he'd try (and fail) to lock in the gogoplata.

That's a debatable subject, but I'll say that Hansen wouldn't let it happen, because in Japan, you learn to defend yourself from submissions and I would think that Hansen would be weary of going for anything involving Taker's legs to get himself in a spot to be choked out.

We've been here. Taker's picked up guys heavier than hansen and dropped them on their heads. The tombstone is definately an option here.

Sure it's an option. An option that won't work for him.

The lariat's ability to spring out of nowhere's a big thing though.

Exactly. The element of a surprise shot can daze Taker for more than three seconds, which is all Hansen needs to win.

However taker could reverse or duck the lariat, hit a big boot and then carry on with his moves of doom (boot, chokeslam, Tombstone(s), win). The reversal of a finisher goes both ways

He sure could. But it wouldn't be reversed into a finisher that could pin him. A chokeslam wouldn't pin Hansen and neither would a big boot.

.hell yes Hansen's lariat could KO 'Taker.

I win.

However, I dont think that one short arm lariat would have the momentum to get a three count.

It could depending on how long the match has gone on. Hansen KO'd Dr. Death with a short arm Lariat out of the corner and was able to pin him.

I think that it'd take two in quick succession to take him down for the three count.

He would possibly hit a short arm, and then I'd imagine him waiting for Taker to get up, then running into the ropes and nailing his Lariat with full momentum.

JBL also had a lot more momentum behind his lariats (as he bounces off the ropes first and runs at his opponents to deliver it). As I say, Hansen could certainly put 'Taker to sleep. Taker could do the same in more ways.

Hansen's finishing Lariat is the same. Which is why I posted the video of JBL coldcocking Undertaker numerous times with it.

If you'd open the contest to people who debuted pre 05, I'd be championing Barrett. Who's certainly on the same (kayfabe) level of toughness. Even if he's certainly not as tough as Hansen is legitimately.

Umm...OK.

My final argument is this. You already conceded that Taker would be KO'd by Hansen, which would be enough to pin him. Despite the brutal battle these two would have, I'd give the nod to Hansen, because The Lariat is dangerous, and it's capable of winning any match he's in with anyone. It's rare to see a finisher that could finish nearly anyone in sight. But I'll say besides Kobashi, Undertaker would give Hansen his best fight. But it would still be Hansen with the win.

 

[Remix]

Hansen's billed as 6'5, 305 lbs. Has been his entire career. But you're right. It's a height advantage nonetheless.

Wiki says 6' 3". I was going by that.

Short armed Lariat? Yes. Running Lariat? No. As I showed you with JBL, Hansen could knock Taker out for a three count and win. Even you conceited that.

'Taker wouldn't need to duck the running lariat. He can hit a big boot before it connects.

Foley and Henry are nowhere near Stan Hansen's level of wrestling skill.

Yes, I agree. However they were for the illustrative purpose of debunking your 'topheavy' arguement. Taker's put plenty of great wrestlers in the tombstone too, you know. Him tombstoning guys like Kurt Angle and HBK, and his reversed reversal of the tombstone on Austin are proof of his ability to deliver the move on more skilled opponents and keep ahold of a fiercely resisting opponent.

Hansen could be lifted possibly

given that he's picked up guys who have 90 pounds on Hansen, I'd say probably.

but it would take a helluva beating for that to happen.

good job that the tombstone is typically delivered on a battered opponent after another power move, rending the 'it'd take a helluva beating' criterion.

Could it happen? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it.

I would. But then, I'm supposed to. I'm fighting in his corner.

And neither could carry Hansen's jock strap.

Very true. As said above, they were for proof of strength.

As I said, Hansen wouldn't let himself get into a spot where he would be put in that move.

you also said that Hansen was willing to do the job when he was told to. contradiction, much? And ignoring booking (as we both have been fore the entire debate) Hansen doesn't have to let 'Taker do anything. As long as Hansen doesnt completely sandbag it, Taker can pick him up for the Tombstone anyway. We've established that Hansen isnt a sandbagging dick, so Taker can deliver the Tombstone as long as Hansen's out of it enough to make it physically possible. It'll be an epic slog, but 'Taker is capable of pulling it off.

True... but who's to say Hansen will be out of it? And as you said, it'll be tough to jump with Hansen in that move.

...You're saying that at the end of a 'slugfest', and taking a chokeslam from UT that Hansen wouldn't be out of it?

It can also be his downfall. Remember his dive against HBK? Exactly.

remember every other time, when the dive's done more damage to the opponent than 'Taker? Exactly.

Even if he would be able to execute it, he'd punish himself as much as Hansen, which would offset whatever damage he done with that move.

not neccesaraly. It depends on how close hansen is to the railing and how hard he hits it. We both know Hansen has back problems. A sussessful suicide dive knocking him into the railings is the sort of thing that'd do a lot of damage to it.

Nobody, IMO.

huge shock there.

Don't think he'll be able to jump and do the Tombstone with Hansen.

I'm pretty sure he's jumped with wrestlers weighing about as much as Hansen (who we've concluded that to be in this situation he'd have to be in no condition to fight the move, and thus there's no reason he couldn't)

proof that he physically could:
[YOUTUBE]oCiQi6Mz8T4[/YOUTUBE]

Admitedly, the imposter undertaker was 15 pounds lighter than Hansen, but I dont think 7.5 kilos is going to massively impair 'Taker's vertical leap.

Big Show is also too dependent on his strength

true. and doesn't rely on ring smarts or toughness.[/quote]mainly because he lacks the former and die to his size and strength has no particular need for the latter.

Hansen does. And that's why he wouldn't let himself get into a spot to have to defend himself from a submission.

You're telling me that Stan Hansen could defend himself from a 'legit' choke hold that takes him by surprise whilst he's exhausted? Jesus, why do people make chick norris jokes and not Stan Hansen jokes?

If he's able to apply it.

yes, as stared, the triangle choke, while very effective is situational in this match. I said as much.

Not as costly as what Taker would make. Hansen doesn't dive over the top rope or walk ropes holding his opponents hand.

granted.

Hansen's worst mistake would be underestimating what it would take to beat Taker. But Hansen rarely makes a mistake to cost him the match.

The same goes for 'Taker.

The chokeslam's a risk, too. Not a high one, but a risk at being reversed so easily and being hit with a Short Arm Lariat. And yes, it would take more than one to keep him down. That's why he finished by going to the ropes and nailing him.

going to the ropes for a running lariat gives 'Taker ample time to raise his foot and big boot Hansen in the skull, do a legdrop and telegraph the chokeslam/tombstone.

Could concede this because Taker can lift a heavier guy. But won't concede that Taker wouldn't be able to hit the Tombstone. I mean, I have to, or else Hansen would lose.

If only 'Taker had a finisher that could be more easilt applied. He dis a mean spear to Edge once? would that work?

Glad to see that a loss for Hansen is a posibility in your mind.

Anything's possible. But this is highly unlikely.

the tombstone that you've admited that a tired and beaten up Hansen could end up getting at the end of a match? And sometihng that 'Taker has proven himself more than capable of delivering.

Taker's capable of pinning anyone.

Chalk one up for the good guys.

But he wouldn't pin Hansen.

Hansen isn't included in the very broad category of 'anyone'? that's hardcore man. PLease dont spout the cliched 'Stan Hansen's not just anyone' line. I'm begging you.

As tough and as brutal as Taker is, Hansen is tougher and more brutal

Given that he knocked out someone's eye he's certainly more brutal. 'Taker jumped through the cell with a broken foot, climbed the steel cage with a detatched bicep, had been wrestling for years with arthritic hips, wrestled with a broken orbital bone, comes back from injuries early (in fact, Vince often has to keep him away from coming back too early), and wrestled a PPV a couple of days after having his knee scoped. I think 'Taker's well on par for being as tough as, if not more though than Hansen

and after beating each other within an inch of their lives, I say Hansen would come out on top as it's much easier to hit a Lariat than a Tombstone when you're weak.

Given that 'Taker's wrestled countless brutal matches in the past and never encountered this problem before, I think you're grasping at straws here. For an example, see Randy Orton vs 'Taker in the Cell. Taker won a brutal (by gimmick) match against someone with a finisher that's more dificult to predict than a lariat. And at Wrestlemania 14 he delivered 3 tombstones to Kane to end the match, this was after a brutal, even match like this would be to a larger wrestler.

That's a debatable subject, but I'll say that Hansen wouldn't let it happen, because in Japan, you learn to defend yourself from submissions and I would think that Hansen would be weary of going for anything involving Taker's legs to get himself in a spot to be choked out.

Hansen doesn't hook the leg when he's going for pins? That's all it took for Show to get choked out. MMAists learn to defend themselves from submissions too, and yet people still get choked out by the Triangle Choke.

Sure it's an option. An option that won't work for him.

Right, Taker's finisher which he can deliver to Hansen and has put away countless guys that dont get pinned easily is an option that wont work against this breed of Texan tough guy. Why exactly? you've admitted that 'Taker can deliver the tombstone and that Hansen isnt immune to the effect of piledrivers. Why wouldnt this option be effective?

Exactly. The element of a surprise shot can daze Taker for more than three seconds, which is all Hansen needs to win.

Indeed, a shock lariat is all it takes for Hansen to win here. and were this a match to initiate a feud and/or series of matches between the two that'd doubtless be what happens. However, if we assume that you and Hansen looking for a definitive, nonlucky shit induced victory, that's not what's happening here.

He sure could. But it wouldn't be reversed into a finisher that could pin him. A chokeslam wouldn't pin Hansen and neither would a big boot.

The point here is that the boot, and chokeslam are moves used to set up the tombstone. Watch any 'Taker match and you'll spot the following sequence at some point. Snake eyes, big boot, legdrop, arm in the air wiggling fingers, chokeslam, cut throat, tombstone, pin. The point I was making was that Taker can perform a reversal that puts him back on the course to victory.

I win.

not yet you don't.

It could depending on how long the match has gone on. Hansen KO'd Dr. Death with a short arm Lariat out of the corner and was able to pin him.

Is the Undertaker Dr Death? I'd say something along the lines of Undertaker's more tough than Williams, but if I'm honest, I know nothing about him except that Jack swagger uses the gutwrench powerbomb as a tribute to him becuase they trained together, or something along those lines. In any case I should have said 'I dont think that a short arm lariat has the momentum to get a threecount on The Undertaker' better?

He would possibly hit a short arm, and then I'd imagine him waiting for Taker to get up, then running into the ropes and nailing his Lariat with full momentum.

giving 'Taker a chance to regroup on his back is a baaad idea. We all know what happens when he does the situp (which is what would happen here) he's somehow back to full power, and Hansen has every chance of getting clocked by UT's feet before the Lariat (express delivery) reached its destination.

Hansen's finishing Lariat is the same. Which is why I posted the video of JBL coldcocking Undertaker numerous times with it.

Yes, if Hansen's running lariat hits 'Taker in the head, Hansen gets the win. Now you admit that Taker's more than capable of delivering the tombstone to Hansen and that if 'Taker hits the tombstone on Hansen 'Taker wins.

Umm...OK.

It's late, I'm tired. Allow me to waffle.Allow me to twist this paragraph to suit my own ends before debunking yours:

My final argument is this. You already conceded that Hansen would be Tombstoned by 'Taker , which would be enough to pin him. Despite the brutal battle these two would have, I'd give the nod to Undertaker, because The Tombstone is dangerous, and it's capable of winning any match he's in with anyone. It's rare to see a finisher that could finish nearly anyone in sight. But I'll say besides Kobashi, Undertaker would give Hansen his best fight. But it would be Undertaker with the win.

My final argument is this. You already conceded that Taker could be KO'd by Hansen, which would be enough to pin him.

It's not a forgone conclusion that the lariat gets successfully delivered. As I say, Taker could avoid harm by using the age old method of ducking, and/or delivering a conter attack.

Despite the brutal battle these two would have, I'd give the nod to Hansen

It's fairly obvious that I'd disagree.

because The Lariat is dangerous, and it's capable of winning any match he's in with anyone.

That sentence also applies to the tombstone. The number of people who've kicked out of that is very small. Even smaller is the number of them that haven't been pinned by 'Taker's tombstone in the end. Like you say, this would be an epic match. However it's an epic match that 'Taker stands every chance of winning. Especially if we take into account that this match would be quite long. By your own admission, Hansen's endurance is not great, meaning that unless Hansen can cut the match short with a lariat (which if I'm honest I dont see happening) this epic match favors 'Taker. A tired Hansen is a Hansen which can be easily tombstoned and pinned.