Why does the WWE value glamour and idiocy over worthy matches for Wrestlemania?

[AegonTargaryen]

It's no secret that more often than not, in the last 5 years, the WWE have given us 3 garbage matches per Wrestlemania on an average . From John Cena vs The Miz, to Snooki match, to some John Morrison tag-teaming with a diva match, to Michael Cole(with Jack Swagger who won the MITB a year ago) vs Jerry Lawler. I could enlist more but you get my gist. The Intercontinental and US titles instead of being elevated have time and time again been diminished and detracted from and Wrestlemania is a big example of that heinous act. The last time I can remember the US title being featured in a prominent way at WM was John Cena and the Big Show at WM XX, Chris Benoit-MVP at WM 23, ...? I simply can't recall if it was even defended. The IC title? Last I checked, JBL lost to Rey Mysterio for the IC title in a few seconds at WM 25. Instead of giving us meaningful matches with some athleticism, the WWE would much rather give us "Beth Phoenix and Melina (with Santino Marella) Vs Maria and Ashley in a Playboy BunnyMania Lumberjill match" and Kane beating Chavo in an 11-second match.

Consider Wrestlemania XXX. Some of you say you're high on it. The others have been feeling it to not be that great. My opinion is that the WWE will deliberately choose the wrong way. Sure, they've done one thing right. The Authority-Orton-Batista storyline has been shaping up perfectly, and HHH-Bryan. The segments they've been doing are the best, in every way. But Taker-Brock sucks on account of Undertaker's total dominance ever since the get go and the total lack of credence when it comes to Brock being a "beast incarnate" and ending the streak because quite frankly, they're doing the same shctick with a much older Uncle Fester with the lame-ass caskets and druids.

But the problem goes beyond that. How is it justifiable that Sheamus ,Alberto Del Rio, Christian, Dolph Ziggler, and Damien Sandow among others will be competing in a 30-man battle royal for a goddamn trophy of a deceased Gigantic wrestling legend from 30 years ago whereas a totally uncharismatic and lacklustre team of Ryback and Curtis Axel will have a match on the card? How can that be justified? Even Shield competing against three washed-up has-beens is a letdown IMO, and if that match indeed happen, then Elimination Chamber was the right ppv for it. Some of you may disagree with me but I think the total diminution of the US/IC titles on the WWE 's part, and 45+ wrestlers who were popular in 1998 being given a match is not right. IMO, they should've given us better stories. I could name a few:-

Cesaro, Jack Swagger and Big E could've wrestled for the IC title in a triple threat match.

The Shield could've done something better, and if they need to face a team, then it should've been something more credible, like the Wyatts.

The 30-man battle royal and Hulk Hogan as a guest host and all the nostalgic crap doesn't really make WM XXX special IMO and the card is practically lacklustre. I do look forward to the HHH-Bryan match and the WWE WHC match. But that's all.

Why does the WWE cherish and value glamour, and idiotic celebrity involvement, over worthy matches for Wrestlemania?

How can it be justified for the N number of crappy 3-minute divas matches with 10 minutes going in entrances, celebrity idiots like Snooki, idiotic few-second matches like Chavo-Kane, Mysterio-JBL, Bryan-Sheamus are always a part of Wrestlemania, and this year, the 30-man Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal but the IC/US titles aren't featured at all?

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Because it brings attention and money and those who feel they are above it still end up going on wrestling forums and posting 234 non spam times in about a month despite the fact that they are apparently so turned off by it.

Keep shitting on the undercard like it matters.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

I don't think it's that bad as you say it is. Sure, we've had some pretty bad stuff at WrestleManias, but we've had at least one GREAT match every year, with the exception of the awful awful WM27. Hell, let's count them!

There have been exactly 100 matches in the past 10 WrestleManias, and 43 of them were either good or GREAT. That isn’t that bad a score, but definitely subpar than what should be the greatest PPV of the year:

15 spectacular matches
• Rock n’ Sock vs. Evolution (WM20)
• Kurt Angle vs. Eddie Guerrero (WM20)
• Christian vs. Chris Jericho (WM20)
• Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H (WM20)
• Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle (WM21)
• Mick Foley vs. Edge (WM22)
• Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. McMahon (WM22)
• The Undertaker vs. Batista (WM23)
• John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels (WM23)
• Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels (WM24)
• Undertaker vs. Edge (WM24)
• The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (WM25)
• The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (WM26)
• Chris Jericho vs. CM Punk (WM28)
• The Undertaker vs. CM Punk (WM29)

6 Excellent Money in the Bank ladder matches
• Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Christian (WM21)
• Rob Van Dam vs. Matt Hardy vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Ric Flair vs. Finlay vs. Bobby Lashley (WM22)
• Mr. Kennedy vs. CM Punk vs. Edge vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Matt Hardy vs. Finlay vs. Randy Orton vs. King Booker (WM23)
• CM Punk vs. Mr. Kennedy vs. Chris Jericho vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Carlito vs. John Morrison vs. MVP (WM24)
• CM Punk vs. Christian vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Kane vs. Finlay vs. MVP vs. Kofi Kingston vs. Mark Henry (WM25)
• Jack Swagger vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Christian vs. Kane vs. Matt Hardy vs. Drew McIntyre vs. Kofi Kingston vs. Evan Bourne vs. MVP vs. Dolph Ziggler (WM26)

22 good matches
• John Cena vs. Big Show (WM20)
• Batista vs. Triple H (WM21)
• The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton (WM21)
• Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero (WM21)
• The Undertaker vs. Mark Henry (WM22)
• John Cena vs. Triple H (WM22)
• Mickie James vs. Trish Stratus (WM22)
• Rey Mysterio vs. Randy Orton vs. Kurt Angle (WM22)
• John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Randy Orton (WM24)
• Big Show vs. Floyd Mayweather (WM24)
• Finlay vs. JBL (WM24)
• Jeff Hardy vs. Matt Hardy (WM25)
• The Colons vs. John Morrison and The Miz (WM25)
• Edge vs. Chris Jericho (WM26)
• John Cena vs. Batista (WM26)
• Triple H vs. Sheamus (WM26)
• Edge vs. Alberto Del Rio (WM27)
• Rey Mysterio vs. Cody Rhodes (WM27)
• The Undertaker vs. Triple H (WM28) (I personally don’t like it, but I can’t deny the fact 99% of everyone loves it)
• The Shield vs. Sheamus, Big Show and Orton (WM29)
• The Rock vs. John Cena (WM29)
• Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar (WM29)

Now after that, we have 28 matches, which while not necessarily bad, they were disappointing than what you would expect from WrestleMania. A lot of them just didn’t have enough time to do something special, while others just had too many competitors.

17 okay matches
• The Undertaker vs. Kane (WM20)
• John Cena vs. JBL (WM21)
• Chris Benoit vs. JBL (WM22)
• Big Show and Kane vs. Carlito and Chris Masters (WM22)
• Bobby Lashley vs. Umaga (WM23)
• ECW Originals vs. The New Breed (WM23)
• Chris Benoit vs. MVP (WM23)
• Edge vs. John Cena vs. Big Show (WM25)
• Chris Jericho vs. Roddy Piper, Ricky Steamboat and Jimmy Snuka (WM25)
• Rey Mysterio vs. CM Punk (WM26)
• Randy Orton vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Ted DiBiase (WM26)
• The Undertaker vs. Triple H (WM27)
• CM Punk vs. Randy Orton (WM27)
• The Rock vs. John Cena (WM28)
• Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger (WM29)
• Chris Jericho vs. Fandango (WM29)
• Team Hell No vs. Dolph and Big E (WM29)

11 random throwaway matches to just get a bunch of people on the card
• Cruiserweight Open (WM20)
• Too Cool vs. WGTT vs. Basham Brothers vs. The APA (WM20)
• Booker T and RVD vs. Cade and Jindrak vs. Dudley Boyz vs. La Resistance (WM20)
• 30-man Battle Royal (WM21)
• 18-man Battle Royal (WM22)
• Ric Flair and Carlito vs. Gregory Helms and Chavo Guerrero Lumberjack match (WM23)
• 23-man Battle Royal (WM24)
• 26-man Battle Royal (WM26)
• 23-man Battle Royal (WM27)
• Primo and Epico vs. International Airstrike vs. The Usos (WM28)
• Team Johnny vs. Team Teddy (WM28)

Now here we find 29 just AWFUL matches. Most of them were doomed for failure, as they were booked as 3-minute encounters, or given the “non-match” treatment. But the worst are the ones that were supposed to be good and just screwed up in execution.

19 Garbage matches
• Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar (WM20)
• Big Show vs. Akebono (WM21)
• The Boogeyman vs. Booker T (WM22)
• Kane vs. Great Khali (WM23)
• Batista vs. Umaga (WM24)
• Kane vs. Chavo Guerrero (WM24)
• Triple H vs. Randy Orton (WM25)
• Rey Mysterio vs. JBL (WM25)
• John Morrison and R-Truth vs. ShoMiz (WM26)
• Bret Hart vs. Mr. McMahon (WM26)
• Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan (WM27)
• Jerry Lawler vs. Michael Cole (WM27)
• John Cena vs. The Miz (WM27)
• Kane, Big Show, Santino Marella and Kofi Kingston vs. The Corre (WM27)
• Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan (WM28)
• Kane vs. Randy Orton (WM28)
• Big Show vs. Cody Rhodes (WM28)
• Ryback vs. Mark Henry (WM29)
• The Miz vs. Wade Barrett (WM29)

10 Garbage Short Divas matches
• Torrie Wilson and Sable vs. Stacy Keibler and Miss Jackie (WM20)
• Victoria vs. Molly Holly (WM20)
• Trish Stratus vs. Christy Hemme (WM21)
• Torrie Wilson vs. Candice Michelle (WM22)
• Ashley vs. Melina (WM23)
• Maria and Ashley vs. Beth Phoenix and Melina (WM24)
• Miss WrestleMania Battle Royal (WM25)
• Mickie James, Gail Kim, Eve, Beth Phoenix and Kelly Kelly vs. Michelle MCool, Vickie Guerrero, Alicia Fox, Layla and Maryse (WM26)
• John Morrison, Trish Stratus and Snooki vs. Dolph Ziggler and Lay-Cool (WM27)
• Kelly Kelly and Maria Menounos vs. Beth Phoenix and Eve Torres (WM28)

 

[FlairFan2003]

Celebrity involvement = main stream press coverage = free advertising. It also raises the reputation of WWE, making them look like a profitable and reputable entertainment company, not a low brow 'wrestling show'.

Fact is fans are more likely to watch the entertainment than the tune in for the match quality. Sometimes yes, you have a big, highly anticipated match that itself is very good, but the appeal of the match isnt the idea it might be athletically good, its the appeal of the storyline that promotes the match, IE the entertainment value.

Remember back in 1998 when wrestling fans tuned out in droves from Brett Hart's Nitro Match with Van Hammer, maybe the best match Hart wrestled in WCW. Fans instead tuned into WWE which was top heavy on promos and backstage segments, light on quality wrestling matches, heavy on entertainment value though as compared to Hart's match which had no build or story behind it against a relatively unknown career mid carder.

Be happy that you usually get one or two A quality matches at W-mania, after all, they have to make time for celebrity moments and that time comes out of the matches.

 

[rbv13]

@renaissanceman2014 – It is obvious by your original post that you are a passionate wrestling fan. It is also apparent that regarding the WWE you do not understand what you are watching.

From the very moment Vincent Kennedy McMahon was given his first territory he began planting the seeds for what would become Sports Entertainment. Over the decades at each and every show his brand has been about variety and entertaining the masses. The idea behind WrestleMania, true today as it was in the beginning, is to provide an ultimate showcase for the WWF/E’s style of entertainment.

The WWE is for men, women and children. It is also for hardcore followers, casual, random, throwback and even hopeful fans. Especially true at WM, they try to work a variety of elements into every show in an attempt to grow their brand awareness. While music stars, Hollywood types, past super stars, multi individual matches and skits might not be your flavor they do work for other types of viewers.

The E also gets a lot of flak concerning other avenues of operation they have explored in the past, most notably the failures known as the WBF and the XFL. In the case of the WBF they made the mistake of branching out into an area where they was not much of a market and very little upside for the future. With the XFL they simply ran into a juggernaut in the NFL, an organization that no one is going to compete with. What is important about these failures is that they were out there trying to grow and ultimately what they learned from these experiences.

Today we see a lot of negativity concerning the company’s film division and the longevity of the Network. In both cases the criticism comes from narrow minded individuals. In each year of the film division existence they have grown. They continue to develop relationships with bigger name studios and attracted bigger name stars. With the Network I would suspect they envision a much larger operation that steps outside the lines of just professional wrestling. The Network is still in its infant stages. Over time the Network will grow to include a vast variety of programming to appeal to a much wider audience.

The important key to remember is to keep an open mind and full understanding about the goals of the WWE as a company.

While I am commenting on your thoughts I’ll also touch on the “squash” matches you frequently mentioned in your post. They are a high energy/high impact booking tool. In the case of Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan they wanted to kick off WM with a bang. It is a lot like running back the opening kick-off in football or a solo home run to start a baseball game. The intention is to show the fans they are in for a night of excitement and will not want to miss a second of the action. Thanks to the squash this match is still talked about today. On the other hand they could have been given ten minutes and the match would have been all but forgotten.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

@renaissanceman2014 – It is obvious by your original post that you are a passionate wrestling fan. It is also apparent that regarding the WWE you do not understand what you are watching.

From the very moment Vincent Kennedy McMahon was given his first territory he began planting the seeds for what would become Sports Entertainment. Over the decades at each and every show his brand has been about variety and entertaining the masses. The idea behind WrestleMania, true today as it was in the beginning, is to provide an ultimate showcase for the WWF/E’s style of entertainment.

The WWE is for men, women and children. It is also for hardcore followers, casual, random, throwback and even hopeful fans. Especially true at WM, they try to work a variety of elements into every show in an attempt to grow their brand awareness. While music stars, Hollywood types, past super stars, multi individual matches and skits might not be your flavor they do work for other types of viewers.

The E also gets a lot of flak concerning other avenues of operation they have explored in the past, most notably the failures known as the WBF and the XFL. In the case of the WBF they made the mistake of branching out into an area where they was not much of a market and very little upside for the future. With the XFL they simply ran into a juggernaut in the NFL, an organization that no one is going to compete with. What is important about these failures is that they were out there trying to grow and ultimately what they learned from these experiences.

Today we see a lot of negativity concerning the company’s film division and the longevity of the Network. In both cases the criticism comes from narrow minded individuals. In each year of the film division existence they have grown. They continue to develop relationships with bigger name studios and attracted bigger name stars. With the Network I would suspect they envision a much larger operation that steps outside the lines of just professional wrestling. The Network is still in its infant stages. Over time the Network will grow to include a vast variety of programming to appeal to a much wider audience.

The important key to remember is to keep an open mind and full understanding about the goals of the WWE as a company.

While I am commenting on your thoughts I’ll also touch on the “squash” matches you frequently mentioned in your post. They are a high energy/high impact booking tool. In the case of Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan they wanted to kick off WM with a bang. It is a lot like running back the opening kick-off in football or a solo home run to start a baseball game. The intention is to show the fans they are in for a night of excitement and will not want to miss a second of the action. Thanks to the squash this match is still talked about today. On the other hand they could have been given ten minutes and the match would have been all but forgotten.

Thank you for your wonderful and elaborate explanation. I do understand the WWE's goals as a company, the coveted mainstream attention, media, etc. Everything for everybody at Wrestlemania. I get that. But should it mean that better stories/matches such as Big E vs Cesaro vs Jack Swagger for the IC title should not happen, but Rybaxel is on the card instead, and the pointless 30-man battle royal? I'd have even liked the battle royal had it had a stipulation which'd make 30 men want to win it. Out of the 30 participants, how many will really care for attaining a trophy? Have WWE-created trophies(Bragging rights, etc.) ever meant anything like MITB, King of the Ring, Royal Rumble victory, and the World titles of course?

I can also accept Andre the Giant being a popular legend but does it mean workhorses like Damien Sandow, Dolph Ziggler, Wade Barrett(what have they done to him?), Sheamus and Christian be put along with over a dozen jobbers just for the sake of his memorial? Until previously, Wrestlemanias had 2 big feuds, 2 world title matches, MITB, etc. so it was obvious that the remaining part of the card would consist of garbage like Nicole Polizzi, Santino/Beth phoenix thing, etc. But now that there's no MITB, only 1 championship match, and with a loaded roster and almost a dozen good to great mid-card wrestlers like Cesaro, Swagger, Christian, Alberto Del Rio, Sheamus, Barrett , Big E, Sandow, Ziggler, etc. would it not have made sense to have something more than a 30-person battle royal ?

 

[AegonTargaryen]

I don't think it's that bad as you say it is. Sure, we've had some pretty bad stuff at WrestleManias, but we've had at least one GREAT match every year, with the exception of the awful awful WM27. Hell, let's count them!

There have been exactly 100 matches in the past 10 WrestleManias, and 43 of them were either good or GREAT. That isn’t that bad a score, but definitely subpar than what should be the greatest PPV of the year:



Now after that, we have 28 matches, which while not necessarily bad, they were disappointing than what you would expect from WrestleMania. A lot of them just didn’t have enough time to do something special, while others just had too many competitors.



Now here we find 29 just AWFUL matches. Most of them were doomed for failure, as they were booked as 3-minute encounters, or given the “non-match” treatment. But the worst are the ones that were supposed to be good and just screwed up in execution.

What an elaborate post! And quite a classification too, right there. I must say it's funny how you included Randy vs HHH and Batista vs Umaga right with Kane vs Chavo and others, LOL. I accept your view and sentiment about the general trajectory and trend for Wrestlemania, but I was hoping for something better at the mid-card level for WM XXX , that's all. It's my belief that now that there's only 1 world title match, and really a lacklustre Brock-Taker match, no MITB, they could do something with so many talented wrestlers that're just floating. How does Cody Rhodes deserve to be in a pointless battle royal, while Ryback and Curtis Axel wrestle for the tag titles? Cody and Goldust have done quite a bit in the past 6 months. I won't even advocate workhorses like Damien Sandow or Dolph Ziggler.

 

[TheICChampion]

I see what you mean. This Wrestlemania is supposedly "The biggest of all time", yet it seems like they've taken a random Raw, used copy and paste and presented it to us for WrestleMania 30. Let's take a look at the card so far, shall we?

WWE Tag Team Championships: The Uso's(c) vs. Rybaxel vs. The Real Americans vs. Los Matadores

Los Matadores? Rybaxel? Really? If they really wanted to put these teams into a title match, first give them a chance to really earn it, THEN maybe we'll care. Also, why these teams over Cody and Goldust? Or Harper and Rowan?

Andre The Giant Memorial 30-man Battle Royal

Sure, MAYBE this might make sense, in about 3 years or so. Point is, why are they wasting so much great talent such as Sheamus, Dolph Ziggler, Damien Sandow, etc.?

The Shield vs. Kane and The New Age Outlaws

If they had started building this feud since Royal Rumble, then I could get into this match a little bit. So, Kane and the Outlaws deserve a spot on the main card? For what? They started building a talent last year (Fandango), so why not this year (The Ascension)? Granted, Fandango has more or less flopped, but that doesn't mean The Ascension will.

Diva's Championship Invitational: AJ Lee(c) vs. Every diva on the roster.

Sure, maybe if they told us what they plan on doing for this match (Is it one fall to the finish? Gauntlet? Battle Royal?) then it might be interesting. Anyone but Natalya, Tamina or AJ walking out with that title and they'll have seriously messed it up, in my opinion.

Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker

If they had told this story properly, it could've easily been the most anticipated match in Undertaker's career. Bring up how he couldn't beat Lesnar when he was younger and healthy. Have Lesnar completely destroy him when they first started building this match, and keep him off tv. Let Heyman carry this feud. PLANT THAT SEED OF DOUBT. Sure, we all know 'Taker will keep the streak, but that doubt is what makes the match that much better.

I know I said I'd go through all the matches, but I'm keeping out the matches I really do want to see, namely the WWE WHC match, Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H and Bray Wyatt vs. John Cena. Overall, though, this isn't really what one would think is "The Biggest WrestleMania of all time". Put the US title on the line. The IC title. SOMETHING. As it stands, like I stated before, this seems almost like a Raw show. I don't know, maybe this could be the Greatest Wrestlemania of all time. But, when you consider the card, it really doesn't seem likely, does it?

 

[rbv13]

But should it mean that better stories/matches such as Big E vs Cesaro vs Jack Swagger for the IC title should not happen, but Rybaxel is on the card instead, and the pointless 30-man battle royal?

Do you sit in on Creative meetings? There could a handful of reason they’ve decided to go in the direction they are currently on. They most likely did not want a second triple threat match on the card or they did not want Swagger and Cesaro against one another yet. What they decided to on was a four team contest for tag titles. In that tag title match they have decided to include Rybaxel. Maybe they have plans for a Rybaxel push, maybe they need a team to take the fall or maybe the Big Guy and the Son of Perfection are being rewarded for something backstage. There really is no difference between competing in the tag match or the battle royal.

I'd have even liked the battle royal had it had a stipulation which'd make 30 men want to win it. Out of the 30 participants, how many will really care for attaining a trophy? Have WWE-created trophies(Bragging rights, etc.) ever meant anything like MITB, King of the Ring, Royal Rumble victory, and the World titles of course?

Why must everything have a title opportunity attached to it to make it meaningful? The downfall of the Royal Rumble match is the reality that each year only three or four guys seriously have a chance at winning it. The other participants are just filler. The Money in the Bank match has hurt just as many careers as it has helped. They make the mistake of giving the briefcase to guys that just aren’t ready for that big of a jump. When it comes to the King of the Ring only a handful of times in the tournaments existence have the winners received a title opportunity. The tournament was designed to be an honor in itself.

This year they have chosen to pay homage to the WM’s first Battle Royal victor and a man who helped but the event on the map. Through main roster programming and social media they have done a nice job of building excitement around the match. The winner will have been given the honor to shine at WM and leave with bragging rights that could mean a legit push in the future. The best part is anyone has the “possibility” to win it because there is no need to elevate them to main event status following the match.

 

[Mongoose McQueen]

WrestleMania XXX is going to sell for one reason: it's WrestleMania XXX. There's no other explanation for it, just deal with it.

 

[Headman]

Wrestlemania is a main stream event not intended for the hardcore fans. Same reason Bruno Mars played at the Superbowl. Honestly I'm shocked that some fans haven't figured this out yet.

 

[whoopin' ass]

Problem is even if you have a good match in every show and ppv, there are still more matches that are meh. There are a lot of guys that I am a fan of but I don't watch wwe because I can't stand all the other crap that goes on.

I think the problem is what wwe wants to be. They are using a soap opera approach to their show, trying to be mainstream entertainment and don't get that by emphasizing the entertainment and not the sports, they are screwing themselves. People are not going to sit down and go "do I want to watch wwe or do I want to watch mad men/law & order/agents of shield/ etc". wwe doesn't get that they are not the same type of entertainment. It's like comparing Breaking Bad to Here Comes Honey Boo Boo - they are totally different styles. wwe needs to emphasize the sports as that is their style but Vince had always wanted to be legit in entertainment hence the bad movies and crappy "sports entertainment" over the last number if years. Ultimate proof they have lost touch - only reason Bryan is going to he in the main event of Mania is because Punk walked on them and made things awkward. Even from a pure entertainment view, Bryan should have won the Rumble and been in the main event as that is good story telling.

 

[Headman]

Problem is even if you have a good match in every show and ppv, there are still more matches that are meh. There are a lot of guys that I am a fan of but I don't watch wwe because I can't stand all the other crap that goes on.

I think the problem is what wwe wants to be. They are using a soap opera approach to their show, trying to be mainstream entertainment and don't get that by emphasizing the entertainment and not the sports, they are screwing themselves. People are not going to sit down and go "do I want to watch wwe or do I want to watch mad men/law & order/agents of shield/ etc". wwe doesn't get that they are not the same type of entertainment. It's like comparing Breaking Bad to Here Comes Honey Boo Boo - they are totally different styles. wwe needs to emphasize the sports as that is their style but Vince had always wanted to be legit in entertainment hence the bad movies and crappy "sports entertainment" over the last number if years. Ultimate proof they have lost touch - only reason Bryan is going to he in the main event of Mania is because Punk walked on them and made things awkward. Even from a pure entertainment view, Bryan should have won the Rumble and been in the main event as that is good story telling.

Bryan couldn't have won the Rumble. He wasn't booked in it. Everyone who paid attention knew he wasn't booked in it. I didn' read any rumors or very many fan predictions that Bryan was going to be a mystery participant. But for some reason the second he got his ass handed to him in the opening match people got it in their heads that he would be a mystery participant in the rumble. Why? Why is that logical or good story telling? He had his feud with Orton that fizzled out and had just lost his feud with the Wayatts. The doesn't sound like a Wrestlemania main event build up to me. The best way to put him in the main event is the way they did it. Only without that stupid occupy RAW hippy crap. And it would have been nice if Bryan could hold his own on the mic. God help this guy once his catch phrase gets played out. But luckily for him wrestling fans kept that annoying "What?" chant going for over a decade so I guess Bryan will be fine.

As it stands the WWE turned one marquee match into two. That doesn't sound like idiotic booking to me. What's idiotic is using most of your talent in a filler battle royal and putting your biggest star in a match with a midcarder. Even if that midcarder is someone I happen to be a fan of.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

Problem is even if you have a good match in every show and ppv, there are still more matches that are meh. There are a lot of guys that I am a fan of but I don't watch wwe because I can't stand all the other crap that goes on.

I think the problem is what wwe wants to be. They are using a soap opera approach to their show, trying to be mainstream entertainment and don't get that by emphasizing the entertainment and not the sports, they are screwing themselves. People are not going to sit down and go "do I want to watch wwe or do I want to watch mad men/law & order/agents of shield/ etc". wwe doesn't get that they are not the same type of entertainment. It's like comparing Breaking Bad to Here Comes Honey Boo Boo - they are totally different styles. wwe needs to emphasize the sports as that is their style but Vince had always wanted to be legit in entertainment hence the bad movies and crappy "sports entertainment" over the last number if years. Ultimate proof they have lost touch - only reason Bryan is going to he in the main event of Mania is because Punk walked on them and made things awkward. Even from a pure entertainment view, Bryan should have won the Rumble and been in the main event as that is good story telling.

I agree with every point you make, but if some of the emphasis is to remain on pointless battle royals and garbage matches , the I can only sit back with a resigned attitude and watch "segments" of Wrestlemania too, because despite being the biggest show of the year, there're only a few good things about it, and it's only my fault if I expect meaningful stories/matches on the undercard.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

I see what you mean. This Wrestlemania is supposedly "The biggest of all time", yet it seems like they've taken a random Raw, used copy and paste and presented it to us for WrestleMania 30. Let's take a look at the card so far, shall we?

WWE Tag Team Championships: The Uso's(c) vs. Rybaxel vs. The Real Americans vs. Los Matadores

Los Matadores? Rybaxel? Really? If they really wanted to put these teams into a title match, first give them a chance to really earn it, THEN maybe we'll care. Also, why these teams over Cody and Goldust? Or Harper and Rowan?

Jesus christ, Los Matadores? that main event jobber team? This is even worse than I knew. I don't like Usos as it is. Rybaxel are practically uncharismatic and unexciting. These tag teams are pathetic and not wrestlemania-calibre. Excluding Real Americans, of course. And I didn't even relalize with Bray facing Cena, 2 Wyatts are available. A real wrestlemania tag-team match should have the BEST. Real Americans, Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins, Cody Rhodes and Goldust, and Wyats. THAT is a wrestlemania calibre tag team title match. Sickening.

Andre The Giant Memorial 30-man Battle Royal

Sure, MAYBE this might make sense, in about 3 years or so. Point is, why are they wasting so much great talent such as Sheamus, Dolph Ziggler, Damien Sandow, etc.?

Exactly.

The Shield vs. Kane and The New Age Outlaws

If they had started building this feud since Royal Rumble, then I could get into this match a little bit. So, Kane and the Outlaws deserve a spot on the main card? For what? They started building a talent last year (Fandango), so why not this year (The Ascension)? Granted, Fandango has more or less flopped, but that doesn't mean The Ascension will.

I don't know if they should have Ascension or some rookie on the card, but certainly I'm unimpressed and totally uninterested in a match which has 3 washed-up wrestlers from the attitude era, and one of them isn't even the same character but a suit-wearing corporate idiot.

Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker

If they had told this story properly, it could've easily been the most anticipated match in Undertaker's career. Bring up how he couldn't beat Lesnar when he was younger and healthy. Have Lesnar completely destroy him when they first started building this match, and keep him off tv. Let Heyman carry this feud. PLANT THAT SEED OF DOUBT. Sure, we all know 'Taker will keep the streak, but that doubt is what makes the match that much better.

That's how I perceive this match as well. I might come across as a relentless pessimist but how does Undertaker looking like a skinny and creepy Uncle Fester, doing the same lame deadman schtick from 1994 with the caskets and druids, with an amazing athlete and a former UFC champion, one with whom he has had a history, make the match exciting? They've practically done almost the opposite of what they should've, with what could have been a decent story. It's bad enough that the Undertaker looks weak, fragile and old alone, which is only worsened in the presence of Brock Lesnar.

I know I said I'd go through all the matches, but I'm keeping out the matches I really do want to see, namely the WWE WHC match, Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H and Bray Wyatt vs. John Cena. Overall, though, this isn't really what one would think is "The Biggest WrestleMania of all time". Put the US title on the line. The IC title. SOMETHING. As it stands, like I stated before, this seems almost like a Raw show. I don't know, maybe this could be the Greatest Wrestlemania of all time. But, when you consider the card, it really doesn't seem likely, does it?

I agree with you. I haven't really bothered watching the John Cena-Bray Wyatt thing but the Daniel Bryan-HHH and Orton-Batista-Authority is by far the most entertaining, intriguing, and must-see feuds and build-up going into WM XXX and IMO the only really "big" matches. Brock-Taker sucks donkeyballs compared to the work EVEN Batista and Orton are doing in terms of in-ring segments. I don't want to be putrid and hateful to Undertaker fans but he makes me want to puke.

 

[whoopin' ass]

Headman, the thing is this isn't the best way to get Bryan into the main event, it is a panic approach. The problem with triple threat matches is that the champ doesn't need to get pinned in order to lose the title. This is good if you want to set up a feud but in this case, you want Bryan to beat Orton given their history. With him winning the Rumble, they could have done great angles where they start throwing little obstacles in his way and as he passes them and gains momentum, Orton starts getting scared. You build the anticipation. It was a simple but good storyline and Batista wasn't needed for it to work. As they have it set now, it is unneccarily complicated and you might not get the payoff as Bryan could pin Batista to win instead of Orton - the payoff to the story isn't Bryan winning the title, it is Bryan taking the title from Orton, the chosen champ of The Authority. Plus it was the Rumble - almost anyone can appear, scheduled or not.

That's the problem with the current wwe - they need to throw all these twists and turns in to be one step ahead of the fans but by doing that they make the product convoluted and miss the basics of storytelling. If Vince, Steph and a few others there went to a writing course and actually listen to what they say instead of thinking they know everything, they would see why the product isn't as popular as it was. Just because they have been in this industry for decades doesn't mean they know everything and what's best. You need to listen to outside people to make sure you are on track. Look how many companies were successful and making money and then suddenly it seemed things changed and they were gone in no time because they thought they were untouchable. wwe is no different.

 

[Franchize1990]

Headman, the thing is this isn't the best way to get Bryan into the main event, it is a panic approach. The problem with triple threat matches is that the champ doesn't need to get pinned in order to lose the title. This is good if you want to set up a feud but in this case, you want Bryan to beat Orton given their history. With him winning the Rumble, they could have done great angles where they start throwing little obstacles in his way and as he passes them and gains momentum, Orton starts getting scared. You build the anticipation. It was a simple but good storyline and Batista wasn't needed for it to work. As they have it set now, it is unneccarily complicated and you might not get the payoff as Bryan could pin Batista to win instead of Orton - the payoff to the story isn't Bryan winning the title, it is Bryan taking the title from Orton, the chosen champ of The Authority. Plus it was the Rumble - almost anyone can appear, scheduled or not.

While I like the theory and don't see anything wrong if the WWE went with the story that you proposed, I respectfully disagree with the notion that what the WWE is doing now wasn't the best way to get Daniel Bryan into the main event scene. I believe that the payoff to this story is more about Bryan finally getting over the machine that is the Authority and in doing so finally has no more outside obstacles to claim what was rightfully his since Summer Slam, the WWE World Heavyweight Championship. While Orton has been a thorn in Bryan's side, who basically handed Orton the title at Summer Slam? Triple H. After Bryan won the title back at Night of Champions, who came up with a conspiracy theory in order to strip the title from him? Triple H. Why did the Big Show come out and cost him the match at the Battlegrounds ppv? Triple H's bidding to make sure Bryan didn't leave with the belt. It's been like this ever since he's touch the belt with him save for about a three month feud with the Wyatts. That's why I think that if/when he finally beats Triple H at WM XXX, a major weight will finally have been lifted from Bryan's shoulders (in kayfabe). Then the icing on the cake is, with no Triple H in the way, Bryan (most likely) pins Orton in the ring for the 3 count and completes his WrestleMania Moment.

As for the question stated in the title of the thread. I don't believe we can determine a "worthy" match until we've actually seen what takes place in the ring. A wrestling example would be back at WrestleMania 20 when we had Brock Lesnar vs Goldberg. On paper, easily a "worthy" match of a WrestleMania event. Two superstars who were absolute forces of nature going at it for the first time ever. Get to the event and it lays a total egg, much to the dismay of millions of fans (myself included). Point being, you can't judge a book by it's cover. While on paper the 30 Man Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal doesn't look to be the most exciting thing on the card (And personally I'm not as interested in seeing it because we just had a match similar to this two months ago called the Royal Rumble), it could open the door for some spots for other talents to shine and continue the feuds that we've been seeing develop over the last few weeks. For the most part, I believe in what the WWE is doing and will wait and see where they go with certain things before poo pooing it altogether.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

As for the question stated in the title of the thread. I don't believe we can determine a "worthy" match until we've actually seen what takes place in the ring. A wrestling example would be back at WrestleMania 20 when we had Brock Lesnar vs Goldberg. On paper, easily a "worthy" match of a WrestleMania event. Two superstars who were absolute forces of nature going at it for the first time ever. Get to the event and it lays a total egg, much to the dismay of millions of fans (myself included). Point being, you can't judge a book by it's cover. While on paper the 30 Man Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal doesn't look to be the most exciting thing on the card (And personally I'm not as interested in seeing it because we just had a match similar to this two months ago called the Royal Rumble), it could open the door for some spots for other talents to shine and continue the feuds that we've been seeing develop over the last few weeks. For the most part, I believe in what the WWE is doing and will wait and see where they go with certain things before poo pooing it altogether.

Well, it's simple. Wyatts, Cody Rhodes and Goldust, and Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins in the tag titles match, Dean Ambrose defending the US title against Big Show, Mark Henry or Alexander Rusev, Jack Swagger and Cesaro facing Big E for the IC..are all much worthtier stories/matches for WM XXX that the load of crap we're getting in the tag title match which largely consists of jobbers, the battle royal which makes me want to puke.

Tell me, what was worthier for WM 25. Chris Jericho vs Rey Mysterio in a classic match for the IC title(not on paper or theory, it'd have been one) or Jericho beating 3 decrepit legends , and Mysterio beating JBL in a few seconds? What's worthier for a wrestlemania? Practicable stories and feuds, or the involvement of Snooki, some lame Wrestlemania playboy bunny match, or that idiotic Santino Marella 25 women's battle royal thing?

 

[Zycho32]

Honestly, here's what I would've tried to do had I been in control and had the time to do it.

Tag Team Title Match: Real Americans (Cesaro/Jack Swagger), New Age Outlaws (Road Dogg/Billy Gunn), Usos (Jimmy/Jey), and Cody Rhodes/Goldust
-Rhodes and Goldust can continue their eventual breakup angle in the proper limelight instead of being buried on the Battle Royale.
-Real Americans will likely fracture entirely in this match, probably with Cesaro turning on Swagger. Again, a natural progression of the storyline.
-The Usos are here for obvious reasons, mainly because they seem to be next in line for the Tag Team push.
-The NAO are probably drawing groans right now, but this is where they ultimately belong in the grand scheme of things, especially since they appeared to have hijacked the Tag Division without warning in the early months.

Six-Pack IC/US Unification Title Match: Dean Ambrose, Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins, Kane, Big E, Sheamus
-The big reason I don't like a major face push for the Shield is this; they simply don't have enough established Heels on the roster to get in their way, hence the usage of the NAO on Kane's behalf, so scrap the tag match entirely, and throw in the Mid-Card belts as is only proper on this show.
-The Shield angle is now thus; HHH punishes them by forcing them to fight not just three challengers, but also each other, with an added barb of throwing in Ambrose's title to be unified with the IC Belt. Of course Kane gets into the fight, and I think Big E is either still the IC Belt-holder or very damn close in contention to it, and Sheamus may be better served here rather than the Royale (though if you want Sheamus to WIN said Royale, then you could replace him with someone else). Big E and Sheamus could just as easily be 'coerced' onto Kane's side for this matchup (faster and dirtier turns have been done in the past).

As for the Battle Royale, obviously Axel and Ryback take the spots vacated by Cody and Goldust, and the vacancies created by Big E and Sheamus can be fixed with minimal effort. Though in truth, I can almost see Big Show winning much like how Andre nearly always won Battle Royales (If I claim he never lost, somebody will no doubt prove me wrong) which I guess would be a nice homage, especially for a show opener.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I THINK EVERYONE HAS THE SAME OPINION AS ME, HERE IS MY OPINION, WHY DOESN'T WWE CATER TO MY OPINION

would have sufficed.


You see, pro wrestling (well, WWE) tries to bring as many eyes in as possible. So you add celebrities to the undercard, give the crowd a break from being drained from good in ring matches. Everyone wins. More eyes and a better reaction for the important stuff. Plus it's celebrity involvement that got Mania to the point it is today.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Headman, the thing is this isn't the best way to get Bryan into the main event, it is a panic approach. The problem with triple threat matches is that the champ doesn't need to get pinned in order to lose the title. This is good if you want to set up a feud but in this case, you want Bryan to beat Orton given their history. With him winning the Rumble, they could have done great angles where they start throwing little obstacles in his way and as he passes them and gains momentum, Orton starts getting scared. You build the anticipation. It was a simple but good storyline and Batista wasn't needed for it to work. As they have it set now, it is unneccarily complicated and you might not get the payoff as Bryan could pin Batista to win instead of Orton - the payoff to the story isn't Bryan winning the title, it is Bryan taking the title from Orton, the chosen champ of The Authority. Plus it was the Rumble - almost anyone can appear, scheduled or not.

That's the problem with the current wwe - they need to throw all these twists and turns in to be one step ahead of the fans but by doing that they make the product convoluted and miss the basics of storytelling. If Vince, Steph and a few others there went to a writing course and actually listen to what they say instead of thinking they know everything, they would see why the product isn't as popular as it was. Just because they have been in this industry for decades doesn't mean they know everything and what's best. You need to listen to outside people to make sure you are on track. Look how many companies were successful and making money and then suddenly it seemed things changed and they were gone in no time because they thought they were untouchable. wwe is no different.

Bryan winning the rumble would be predictable as hell. WWE has garnered a much greater reaction because they've worked the fans' perceived self-knowledge. The fans got extra pissed when they thought Bryan wasn't booked in the title match. If it was panic booking, it's a brilliant audible. If it's not (which I think it was planned this way more or less), then it's still brilliant.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

I THINK EVERYONE HAS THE SAME OPINION AS ME, HERE IS MY OPINION, WHY DOESN'T WWE CATER TO MY OPINION

would have sufficed.


You see, pro wrestling (well, WWE) tries to bring as many eyes in as possible. So you add celebrities to the undercard, give the crowd a break from being drained from good in ring matches. Everyone wins. More eyes and a better reaction for the important stuff. Plus it's celebrity involvement that got Mania to the point it is today.

Yeah so much the better with matches like John Morrison tag teaming with 2 divas vs Dolph Ziggler tag-teaming with 2 divas in a 4-minute match, or someone like the Miz being in the main-event whereas Jack Swagger is dancing around with MICHAEL FUCKING COLE WHO'S AN ACTIVE WRESTLER ON THE CARD, right!?

This crappy attitude such as yours is more suited on a "normal" casual fan who couldn't care less about who headlines Wrestlemania and who isn't on the card, not a passionate member of the IWC.

I watched Starrcade 1996 today, and guess what? Dean Malenko and Ultimo Dragon put on a 15+ minute match for the WCW cruiserweight championship and a match better than most Wrestlemania main-events we've been getting.

Try replying to threads with logical expositions instead of crappy attitude characteristic of casual John Cena-loving fans.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Yeah so much the better with matches like John Morrison tag teaming with 2 divas vs Dolph Ziggler tag-teaming with 2 divas in a 4-minute match, or someone like the Miz being in the main-event whereas Jack Swagger is dancing around with MICHAEL FUCKING COLE WHO'S AN ACTIVE WRESTLER ON THE CARD, right!?

This crappy attitude such as yours is more suited on a "normal" casual fan who couldn't care less about who headlines Wrestlemania and who isn't on the card, not a passionate member of the IWC.

I watched Starrcade 1996 today, and guess what? Dean Malenko and Ultimo Dragon put on a 15+ minute match for the WCW cruiserweight championship and a match better than most Wrestlemania main-events we've been getting.

Try replying to threads with logical expositions instead of crappy attitude characteristic of casual John Cena-loving fans.

I have a business background. I loved ultimo/malenko. The tombstone reversal spot is sweet and the crowd pops. Your elitist "IWC" attitude is shit. With wwe they try to bring good wrestling and outside entertainment. More eyes means more money. If you have a match that only a small portion like even if they claim to be smarter fans (they aren't) and no one sees he match, who gives a shit? Btw, you're talking to a guy who has driven 14 hours in a day to see Bryan danielson in roh. Keep your narrow, wannabe snobby attitude; I'll keep my broad and logical attitude. Read a book.