Why Do You Like Shelton Benjamin?

[Tenta]

Ok, look, this is really pissing me off.

What makes you like Shelton Benjamin? What makes you feel like this man desrves a main event spot? I mean, it's not like the WWE has tried fifty bajillion fucking times to give him a slot in the main event. It's not like they had him go over Triple H. Or given him innumerable runs with a title, had him in an admittedly outstanding match with Shawn Michaels (which, oh, by the way, shawn carried), and given him numerous gimmicks that tried to give him some sense of personality. It's not like WWE gave him ladder matches so he can spot his way into oblivion, given him good wrestlers to work with so he can potentially injure them with his spotty work, or given him television time to introduce himself to the audience multiple times. It's not like they've tried to place him on all three brands, and he failed on each and every one of them. Surely, that couldn't be the case, at all. Surely, Vince has no idea what kind of talent he has on his hands, especially when this man has stars since before most of us were sperm. Surely it isn't like Vince doesn't know talent, and isn't the man that had quite the hand in creating wrestlers like Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, The Rock, Shawn Michaels, etc. Surely creative has not tried pushing him down our throats, and given him absolutely nothing to work with. Surely Shelton's promos don't suck, and make me want to shove my head up an elephant's ass to find the Hope Diamond. Surely it isn't that he has no personality whatsoever, and is the most generic wrestler on the roster this side of Charlie Haas?

So... Again... What makes you like Shelton Benjamin? You'd better come on strong here...

 

[X]

Ok, look, this is really pissing me off.

What makes you like Shelton Benjamin?

He's a great in-ring worker. I personally enjoy great in-ring workers who are able to pull off a variety of complex moves that others can't. That's more then enough of a reason for me to like him, he's probably one of if not the best in-ring worker the WWE has. Does that mean I want him headlining Wrestlemania? No fucking way.

What makes you feel like this man desrves a main event spot? I mean, it's not like the WWE has tried fifty bajillion fucking times to give him a slot in the main event.

...I only recall one main event push, and even that wasn't actually a legit main event push. Putting him over Triple H wasn't meant as a move to put Shelton into the main event. You actually think that was a legit main event push?

Look, I don't think he deserves one either JT. Not yet, and not until he's proven he can carry a main event feud. Neither of us can predict the future so neither of us can proclaim he doesn't deserve one in the future.

Or given him innumerable runs with a title, had him in an admittedly outstanding match with Shawn Michaels (which, oh, by the way, shawn carried)

Shawn carried that match? Please. HBK, despite the great matches he can still put on occasionally, is a mere shell of his former self. Shelton more then held his own in that match.

and given him numerous gimmicks that tried to give him some sense of personality.

What gimmicks? The Shelton's Momma gimmick that came and went quickly? That's the only gimmick he's ever really had, every other "gimmick" he's had is just "I'm Shelton and I'm the best". He's been working that same gimmick since his debut really.

I don't understand your hatred for the man JT. He's a great midcarder, and nothing else for now. Who knows if in the future he develops great mic skills or goes over big with the fans, you act like the man has been in the WWE for twenty years or something, five years is absolutely nothing in a career, look at how many main eventers had to spend an even longer amount of time then that cutting their teeth in the midcard. Jeff Hardy had to work the midcard for over a decade before he was even given a title shot.

Give Benjamin some time. Five years is nothing, his career has only just begun.

For me personally though, I enjoy watching actual wrestling. In-ring work I'm talking here. And on that front, Benjamin is probably the best in the WWE.

 

[Tenta]

He's a great in-ring worker. I personally enjoy great in-ring workers who are able to pull off a variety of complex moves that others can't. That's more then enough of a reason for me to like him, he's probably one of if not the best in-ring worker the WWE has. Does that mean I want him headlining Wrestlemania? No fucking way.

I personally feel like he's not even in the top fifteen workers in the company. Sure, he can do suplexes and stuff, and jump off the top rope. My problem is that relies on his spots far too much to get him over, rather than actually using his charisma to get himself over. Then again, that would be implying that he would have charisma, because in my eyes, he doesn't.

...I only recall one main event push, and even that wasn't actually a legit main event push. Putting him over Triple H wasn't meant as a move to put Shelton into the main event. You actually think that was a legit main event push?

I feel like it's far more than anything the WWE has offered to most other wrestlers. How many wrestlers can say they beat Triple H clean? Usually, isn't that pulling the trigger, and stating that they want him in the main event. Furthermore, they always wound up giving him many chances, including, yes, Shelton's momma. The way I see it, when WWE had him come back from what ailments he had, he'd work with wrestlers like Chris Jericho, Christian, and these men would carry matters on the side of entertainment. Shelton lacked a persona, so he was paired with wrestlers with such a personality, it made up for all that Shelton lacked.

Look, I don't think he deserves one either JT. Not yet, and not until he's proven he can carry a main event feud. Neither of us can predict the future so neither of us can proclaim he doesn't deserve one in the future.

Which I get. i'm not saying he should be fired, X, because he does have his bright spots. But look at some of the threads you have on here. "Shelton Benjamin for the ME", "Shelton Benjamin Should Turn On Charlie Haas", "Shelton Benjamin is God". Ok, maybe not that last one. But the way people talk about him, you'd think he's a multiple time world champion. Just look into these threads, and find the garbage people post about him.

Shawn carried that match? Please. HBK, despite the great matches he can still put on occasionally, is a mere shell of his former self. Shelton more then held his own in that match.

I suppose, but then here's my question... why has he not had a match since that actually told somewhat of a story? To me, it seems like all of his matches rely on spots.

What gimmicks? The Shelton's Momma gimmick that came and went quickly? That's the only gimmick he's ever really had, every other "gimmick" he's had is just "I'm Shelton and I'm the best". He's been working that same gimmick since his debut really..

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa there X... Let's take a looksies here:

-The WGTT (He was paired up with Kurt Angle for christ sake. Kurt frickin Angle!)
-The prodigy (defeating Triple H, Ric Flair, etc.)
-Um... something (Yeah, that's his "I'm the best" stuff)
-Momma's boy (Again, I don't think that was too horrendous. And besides, if Shelton had a personality on his own, I'd be inclined to agree. But he's proven he doesn't.
-The WGTT (Again)
- The Gold Standard (Ok, consider this; Dolph Ziggler fucking took saying his name, and made it into a credible gimmick. are you saying Shelton can't do the same? All I've seen him do is bleach his hair)

I don't understand your hatred for the man JT...

X, it's not so much him, as much as I feel that he's godded up by people on this forum who, quite frankly, have absolutely no clue. Have you seen the drivel written on this man?

He's a great midcarder, and nothing else for now.

I personally feel he's spotty, but that's just me.

Who knows if in the future he develops great mic skills or goes over big with the fans, you act like the man has been in the WWE for twenty years or something, five years is absolutely nothing in a career,

See, here's the thing, X... to me, you can't develop charisma. You can't make the fans want to watch you... You either have their attention, or you don't. Shelton's had seven years to learn how to cut a decent promo. That's all I ask, really. Just a decent promo. He's had seven years. And that doesn't even count the time he spent in OVW. If he doesn't have it by now, then when will he get it.

look at how many main eventers had to spend an even longer amount of time then that cutting their teeth in the midcard. Jeff Hardy had to work the midcard for over a decade before he was even given a title shot.

Jeff was given the chance because Vince eventually gave in to the fans. Trust me, if he could have kept Jeff in the mid-card, he would. There's no way he trusts Jeff Hardy right now, nor should he. The man worked in the middle card because of his drug issues, and a tendency to burn out. You know what the difference between Shelton and Jeff is, though? The fans care about Jeff, and made it so Vince couldn't possibly ignore him. The fans just don't care for Shelton. He has no personality, and they just don't stick to him. That's the difference between him and Jeff.

Give Benjamin some time. Five years is nothing, his career has only just begun..

For you, X.... i'll give him another three years. And if he's in the same position, I won't be surprised.

For me personally though, I enjoy watching actual wrestling. In-ring work I'm talking here. And on that front, Benjamin is probably the best in the WWE.

And coming from you, that means something. Mainly because you have an intelligent opinion, and know the business. But again, look at the drivel you see here. I promise you, for the eloquent response you just gave me, fifteen others will come spewing crap. I assure you. Just watch, X. In the meantime, again, we'll have to agree to disagree. I respect your opinion on this one. You may have boosted Shelton's credibility, in my eyes.

 

[X]

I personally feel like he's not even in the top fifteen workers in the company. Sure, he can do suplexes and stuff, and jump off the top rope. My problem is that relies on his spots far too much to get him over, rather than actually using his charisma to get himself over. Then again, that would be implying that he would have charisma, because in my eyes, he doesn't.

See but I'm talking strictly in-ring work here though JT, something which charisma has absolutely nothing to do with. You don't need charisma to be a great in-ring worker, ask Bryan Danielson that one.

I feel like it's far more than anything the WWE has offered to most other wrestlers. How many wrestlers can say they beat Triple H clean? Usually, isn't that pulling the trigger, and stating that they want him in the main event. Furthermore, they always wound up giving him many chances, including, yes, Shelton's momma. The way I see it, when WWE had him come back from what ailments he had, he'd work with wrestlers like Chris Jericho, Christian, and these men would carry matters on the side of entertainment. Shelton lacked a persona, so he was paired with wrestlers with such a personality, it made up for all that Shelton lacked.

I defintately agree with you about pairing Shelton with more charismatic guys with bigger personalities, but the whole victory of Triple H thing was really just a fluke more in line with the 1-2-3 Kid going over Razor Ramon then a legit push for the main event. Did he deserve it? Sure, why not? It's good to show that your big guys are capable of losing unpredictably to guys who aren't as high on the card, keeps the crowd on their toes.

Which I get. i'm not saying he should be fired, X, because he does have his bright spots. But look at some of the threads you have on here. "Shelton Benjamin for the ME", "Shelton Benjamin Should Turn On Charlie Haas", "Shelton Benjamin is God". Ok, maybe not that last one. But the way people talk about him, you'd think he's a multiple time world champion. Just look into these threads, and find the garbage people post about him.

Well I totally agree with you that Benjamin doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the main event right now, not until he can make a legit connection with the fans and prove himself capable of carrying a main event feud.

But what do ya expect man? We are on a wrestling forum after all, populated by numerous smarks. Benjamin is the new IWC darling, people were having the same disgusted reaction as you are now when people were posting the same things about guys like Benoit back in the early 2000's (and I remember that on the old PWC boards). Can't take the IWC's opinions too seriously mate.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa there X... Let's take a looksies here:

-The WGTT (He was paired up with Kurt Angle for christ sake. Kurt frickin Angle!)
-The prodigy (defeating Triple H, Ric Flair, etc.)
-Um... something (Yeah, that's his "I'm the best" stuff)
-Momma's boy (Again, I don't think that was too horrendous. And besides, if Shelton had a personality on his own, I'd be inclined to agree. But he's proven he doesn't.
-The WGTT (Again)
- The Gold Standard (Ok, consider this; Dolph Ziggler fucking took saying his name, and made it into a credible gimmick. are you saying Shelton can't do the same? All I've seen him do is bleach his hair)

But JT, look at those gimmicks. Aside from the Momma's boy one, every single one of them is exactly the same. They're all the same gimmick, the cocky young up and comer who thinks he's the best. That's pretty much been his gimmick since day one.

See, here's the thing, X... to me, you can't develop charisma. You can't make the fans want to watch you... You either have their attention, or you don't. Shelton's had seven years to learn how to cut a decent promo. That's all I ask, really. Just a decent promo. He's had seven years. And that doesn't even count the time he spent in OVW. If he doesn't have it by now, then when will he get it.

I gotta disagree with you here, promo-cutting if anything does indeed take time to develop. Look for example at Bret (and to a lesser extent, Owen) Hart. The man was atrocious on the mic for a large majority of his career (and was still a World Champion by the way, without even a shred of charisma) until around 1997 when he started cutting absolute gold on the mic during the Hart Foundation days.

Seven years is nothing man, in the old days some wrestlers wouldn't even utter a single word on the mic for that long.

For you, X.... i'll give him another three years. And if he's in the same position, I won't be surprised.[/quote

I hope you don't think that I was implying that Shelton will develop those talents in 3 years, I simply said that he might. The future is always uncertain.

And coming from you, that means something. Mainly because you have an intelligent opinion, and know the business. But again, look at the drivel you see here. I promise you, for the eloquent response you just gave me, fifteen others will come spewing crap. I assure you. Just watch, X. In the meantime, again, we'll have to agree to disagree. I respect your opinion on this one. You may have boosted Shelton's credibility, in my eyes.

The way I look at it is just to enjoy Shelton soley in the ring. Don't even pretend like he's good on the mic because he simply isn't. I think part of your dislike for Shelton might actually have to do with how much the IWC and people on this board try to shove him down your throat and tell you he's the best. If you just put away those expectations of greatness and watch him with an open mind, he truly is one of the most entertaining in-ring workers in the WWE. Does that make him one of the best wrestlers in the WWE? No, because wrestling is about more then how many moves you know. But he's fun to watch from a smark's POV like I do.

 

[Tenta]

Good points all around, X. You really do make me think whenever I'm typing out my stuff. And at the moment, I'm being driven up the wall by NateDaMac over The Undertaker VS. Edge (By the way, vote Edge.... Just fucking. Vote Taker). Anyway, to sum everything up as best as I can:

I have tried to keep an open mind. Literally, I've been watching for the last month, and trying to ignore a lot of the IWc. And yet still, I just don't see it.

Granted, your point on Bret and Owen is valid... But then again, their work could help them get away with it. Shelton is no Owen, and he surely is no Bret. Again, no one in this era is, or ever will be (no pun intended on the matter), but then again, there has to be a point where you have to let yourself grow as a character. HBK did it. Edge did it. Even to some extent, Jeff Hardy did it.

And again, the fans cared about Bret and Owen. For some reason, they were colorless for a little while, but damn it did we love those two. Shelton... Who honestly loves Shelton, aside from the few people on the IWC? Who's really clamoring for Shelton to get to the main event, either than a few posters who really have no clue what they're talking about. You understand the business, but even you admit that it's the smark in you that likes Shelton. At what point does he pull in the people other than the smarks (or wannabe smarks, for that matter), and get a decent crowd reaction. Not a reaction from four years ago... But a reaction all the same. When does that happen, X?

Thank you for showing me there are some intelligent fans that care for Shelton. But even you admit that you would never see him in the ME... At least as he is. There's a whole lot of people that feel he's ME worthy now. All I want to know is why? Why is this man ready, when he gets absolutely no reaction? Do you feel like he should be in ME, X? If you do, I'll happily hear an argument. But I think even you'll agree the IWC has gone crazy on Shelton.

 

[jmt225]

See but I'm talking strictly in-ring work here though JT, something which charisma has absolutely nothing to do with. You don't need charisma to be a great in-ring worker, ask Bryan Danielson that one.

Yeah, but Bryan Danielson does have a ton of charisma nowadays, X. In fact, I’d go as far as to say Danielson has as much charisma as anyone in the sport, currently.

Anyway, like X, I like Shelton because of his in-ring work.

Back in 2002, I was a huge Kurt Angle and Paul Heyman fan, so when they debut the faction of Team Angle, I instantly became a fan of 'The World's Greatest Tag Team' and I was more impressed with Shelton than I was with Charlie Haas. Haas was cool and everything, but I just preferred Shelton's style.

Fast forward to when he got drafted to Raw and beat HHH, I marked out big time. I thought the guy was onto great things. Also during this period we as fans learned of his background and what he had to go through to get to where he got, and that just made me a bigger fan. I also liked the fact he had a legitimate background in Amateur wrestling and was Brock Lesnar's team and roommate (in case any of you haven't noticed yet I am a huge Brock Lesnar fan).

Since this time I've been very disappointed with the way Shelton has been booked, but I'm still a huge fan because when the situation has called for it, he's always delivered his best in the ring, and the outcome has always been tremendously entertaining. The guy just has great matches and that's all there is to it.

And I think with the right gimmick, he can be over and have a lot of success in WWE. I've seen a lot of high profile posters here get on people for always suggesting giving a struggling wrestler a mouth piece, well... look at how over Shelton was when he had "Momma" in his corner. The fans loved every second of that storyline. It was hilarious, and Shelton was still delivering great matches in the ring. It was perfect. And that's why managers are so useful. They help wrestlers who can't speak well on the mic hide the fact that they can't do so and the Momma angle was a perfect example of Shelton only needing a little bit of help in that area for him to get over with the audience. It's a shame she had health problems, because there's no tellin' how far Shelton could've gotten with her.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

I like Shelton's in ring work and that's it.

He's horrible on the mic and can't cut a good promo to save his life. His character, if he even has one, is bland and horrible.

however when he step into the ring he puts on a pretty godd match no matter who he's against. I don't care who tires to chove him down my throat as one of the best, I know he isn't. I find him entertaning from opening bell to the 1..2..3 and that's pretty much it.

That is why I like Shelton Benjamin.

 

[Tenta]

Yeah, but Bryan Danielson does have a ton of charisma nowadays, X. In fact, I’d go as far as to say Danielson has as much charisma as anyone in the sport, currently.

I suppose, but that's another topic for another time. We're talking about Shelton here.

Anyway, like X, I like Shelton because of his in-ring work.

As did I, until he became extremely spotty. Sure, he can do suplexes and stuff. But he relies on those, much more than he attempts to use ring psychology

Back in 2002, I was a huge Kurt Angle and Paul Heyman fan, so when they debut the faction of Team Angle, I instantly became a fan of 'The World's Greatest Tag Team' and I was more impressed with Shelton than I was with Charlie Haas. Haas was cool and everything, but I just preferred Shelton's style.

And I have a theory regarding that moment... Basically, Shelton was protected by Kurt, and Kurt's amazing promo abilities. As long as he had Kurt, he didn't have to get on the mic. But here's my question; how realistic is that for a main eventer to cling so tightly to a mouthpiece. John Cena doesn't do it. HBK doesn't do it. You get my drift. There's something completely separating these wrestlers from Shelton, and that's charisma.

Fast forward to when he got drafted to Raw and beat HHH, I marked out big time. I thought the guy was onto great things..

Well of course you did, and so did I. But I didn't mark out because Shelton won... I marked out because Triple H lost. See my point? We all hated Trips at this point. Seeing him lose made all of us so excited. Trips actually did the job.

Also during this period we as fans learned of his background and what he had to go through to get to where he got, and that just made me a bigger fan. I also liked the fact he had a legitimate background in Amateur wrestling and was Brock Lesnar's team and roommate (in case any of you haven't noticed yet I am a huge Brock Lesnar fan).

So am I, but I shouldn't root for a guy because he was someone's teamate. I should root for him if he does enough to get me to care for him. And Shelton hasn't.

Since this time I've been very disappointed with the way Shelton has been booked, but I'm still a huge fan because when the situation has called for it, he's always delivered his best in the ring, and the outcome has always been tremendously entertaining. The guy just has great matches and that's all there is to it.

Now here's where we differ... I feel he has extremely spotty matches. I feel he puts himself, and all of the other wrestlers, in danger with his spots. And that automatically puts him on my shit list. If he had any charisma, facial expressions... Anything to get a reaction, I'd agree. But he doesn't.

And I think with the right gimmick, he can be over and have a lot of success in WWE. I've seen a lot of high profile posters here get on people for always suggesting giving a struggling wrestler a mouth piece, well... look at how over Shelton was when he had "Momma" in his corner. The fans loved every second of that storyline. It was hilarious, and Shelton was still delivering great matches in the ring. It was perfect. And that's why managers are so useful. They help wrestlers who can't speak well on the mic hide the fact that they can't do so and the Momma angle was a perfect example of Shelton only needing a little bit of help in that area for him to get over with the audience. It's a shame she had health problems, because there's no tellin' how far Shelton could've gotten with her.

Well, perhaps, but there's two things. I love Shelton's momma... But;

1. It completely saps all of Shelton's credibility... Kind of a catch 22.

2. Vince seems intent on phasin out managers. So with that in mind... Well, what now for Shelton? With no mouth piece, what does he do?

I'll tell you... Continues to be his boring self.

 

[jmt225]

As did I, until he became extremely spotty. Sure, he can do suplexes and stuff. But he relies on those, much more than he attempts to use ring psychology

Dude, what match today isn't a spot fest? Every match goes to spot after spot after spot. That's a fact. Just because Shelton uses a little bit more of flashy moves than the normal person in WWE does not make him worse than them. It makes him more exciting in my mind.

And I have a theory regarding that moment... Basically, Shelton was protected by Kurt, and Kurt's amazing promo abilities. As long as he had Kurt, he didn't have to get on the mic. But here's my question; how realistic is that for a main eventer to cling so tightly to a mouthpiece. John Cena doesn't do it. HBK doesn't do it. You get my drift. There's something completely separating these wrestlers from Shelton, and that's charisma.

I'm not going to argue that. No one here is going to try and convince you Shelton is this amazing charismatic wrestler with tremendous mic skills. No.. we're just answering your question as to why we like him, and it's because of his in-ring work. He's fun to watch because he has good matches in our minds.

Well of course you did, and so did I. But I didn't mark out because Shelton won... I marked out because Triple H lost. See my point? We all hated Trips at this point. Seeing him lose made all of us so excited. Trips actually did the job.

Yes, I was happy that Triple H lost. There's probably not a bigger HHH hater on this board than I, but I was still happy Shelton was the one who defeated him because as I told you... I was a fan of his while he was in the World's Greatest Tag Team.

So am I, but I shouldn't root for a guy because he was someone's teamate. I should root for him if he does enough to get me to care for him. And Shelton hasn't.

I didn't say that was the only reason; just part of the reason.

Now here's where we differ... I feel he has extremely spotty matches.

Like I said, every wrestler today has spotty matches. It's why there are so many injuries. The wrestlers go to spot to spot to spot in every single match. That's the way it is today.

I feel he puts himself, and all of the other wrestlers, in danger with his spots. And that automatically puts him on my shit list.

Who has Shelton injured, exactly? Kennedy maybe, but that's it as far as I know. There are no more who come to mind, so that argument is weak.

Not to mention the fact that Shelton has hardly ever gotten injured since he debuted all those years ago. He's been on the show consistently, because he has yet to get seriously hurt to my recollection. That's pretty impressive considering how long he's been in the company, and speaks highly on his ability to protect himself in the ring.

If he had any charisma, facial expressions... Anything to get a reaction, I'd agree. But he doesn't.

Shelton's face expressions have improved over the years. It's not great, but neither was Bret Hart's.

And you can't just have charisma. Some people have it, some people don't. Unfortunately, Shelton doesn't, but I feel he more than makes up for it with his in-ring work.

Well, perhaps, but there's two things. I love Shelton's momma... But;

1. It completely saps all of Shelton's credibility... Kind of a catch 22.

No, it didn't. Just because someone's a momma's boy doesn't mean they can't be a bad ass at the same time. There are plenty of bad motherfuckers out there who love their momma.

2. Vince seems intent on phasin out managers. So with that in mind... Well, what now for Shelton? With no mouth piece, what does he do?

1. Fuck Vince.

2. I really don't know. I guess just rot in mid-card hell, unless he improves his mic skills. But either way.... as long as he's still putting on matches that I find entertaining, I will remain a fan of his. Wrestlers don't need to be top guys for me to like them.

I'll tell you... Continues to be his boring self.

Well, to you he's boring. To me, it's a pleasure to watch him perform in that ring, because he's pretty damn good at it.

 

[Tenta]

Dude, what match today isn't a spot fest? Every match goes to spot after spot after spot. That's a fact. Just because Shelton uses a little bit more of flashy moves than the normal person in WWE does not make him worse than them. It makes him more exciting in my mind.

Well, I don't find Cena's to be, nor do I find Shawn's, Taker's, Randy's, Triple H's.... I get what you're saying though.

I'm not going to argue that. No one here is going to try and convince you Shelton is this amazing charismatic wrestler with tremendous mic skills. No.. we're just answering your question as to why we like him, and it's because of his in-ring work. He's fun to watch because he has good matches in our minds .

Which I respect, but do you also ever want to see him in the main event? I mean, really, are you that big of a fan, that you want to see him in the ME? If not, then again, I agree to most extents you. If so... Then tell me what he's done to receive a main event push.

Yes, I was happy that Triple H lost. There's probably not a bigger HHH hater on this board than I, but I was still happy Shelton was the one who defeated him because as I told you... I was a fan of his while he was in the World's Greatest Tag Team.

Which I understand, because Kurt polished him really well, and we didn't see his flaws. But now that you see his flaws, can you see my point?

Like I said, every wrestler today has spotty matches. It's why there are so many injuries. The wrestlers go to spot to spot to spot in every single match. That's the way it is today.

Again, we're old school fans. We know what it's like to see wrestlers like Bret Hart, Mr. Perfect, and such in matches. Having said that, there's at least a general psychology to the main eventers matches. And my main focus is understanding why people believe Shelton deserves in the main event.

Who has Shelton injured, exactly? Kennedy maybe, but that's it as far as I know. There are no more who come to mind, so that argument is weak.

I've heard of instances in which he almost hurt Morrison on slams at their Extreme Rules match. I'm not going to say the flip, because that wasn't his fault. However, he did really put himself in danger by not fully rotating on that little flip thing he did. Either than that, it's not so much injuries, as his work has become a little sloppy, to me, and I fear that an injury will happen every time I watch him wrestle.

Not to mention the fact that Shelton has hardly ever gotten injured since he debuted all those years ago. He's been on the show consistently, because he has yet to get seriously hurt to my recollection. That's pretty impressive considering how long he's been in the company, and speaks highly on his ability to protect himself in the ring.

True, I suppose. Again, that goes to my belief that he works a bit sloppier than he use to.

Shelton's face expressions have improved over the years. It's not great, but neither was Bret Hart's.

And you can't just have charisma. Some people have it, some people don't. Unfortunately, Shelton doesn't, but I feel he more than makes up for it with his in-ring work..

The only wrestler I feel can make up for his charismatic flaws by his wrestling is Bret Hart. He's the only one that I see wrestle, and don't question his spot in wrestling, merely because of his technical prowress. Either than that, Shelton has to develop some sort of a persona.

No, it didn't. Just because someone's a momma's boy doesn't mean they can't be a bad ass at the same time. There are plenty of bad motherfuckers out there who love their momma

And perhaps if he was portrayed as a bad mamjama, I'd agree. But for the most part, he hid behind his mother, thus why I feel his credibility was somewhat shot.

1. Fuck Vince.

2. I really don't know. I guess just rot in mid-card hell, unless he improves his mic skills. But either way.... as long as he's still putting on matches that I find entertaining, I will remain a fan of his. Wrestlers don't need to be top guys for me to like them.

1. that's the JMT225 I know and love.

2. And again, he's ok for being in the mid-card. I'd probably peg him as more of a low card man, a curtain jerker myself, but that's just me. The issue isn't with him having a job. The issue is when people bitch that he deserves a main event spot, which it does not seem you're doing right now.

Well, to you he's boring. To me, it's a pleasure to watch him perform in that ring, because he's pretty damn good at it.

Again, a agreeance to disagreeance

 

[jmt225]

Which I respect, but do you also ever want to see him in the main event? I mean, really, are you that big of a fan, that you want to see him in the ME? If not, then again, I agree to most extents you. If so... Then tell me what he's done to receive a main event push.

Since I got the internet in 2005, I've posted on multiple messageboards how I would absolutely love to see Taz get off his chubby ass and become a manager. A manager to Shelton Benjamin, and give Shelton a gimmick similar to what Taz had in ECW. That was the way I always wanted to see Shelton get elevated to the main event. But since that's obviously never going to happen... I guess I don't want to see him there. I mean, I would love to see him have long term feuds with some of the top guys in the company, but yeah... unless the scenario I mentioned happened, I could never see a World Title around Shelton's waist because I don't think he has the ability to sell tickets as the World Champion without that type of gimmick.

Which I understand, because Kurt polished him really well, and we didn't see his flaws.

Well, in my opinion, Paul Heyman deserves more credit for that. He was booking the show at the time, and he was Team Angle's mouth piece when they first came along.

But now that you see his flaws, can you see my point?

Other then you claiming Shelton's spotty, I've always seen your point. I definitely understand how there are some fans who won't appreciate Shelton's style, and won't get over the fact that Shelton's not very charismatic.

Again, we're old school fans. We know what it's like to see wrestlers like Bret Hart, Mr. Perfect, and such in matches. Having said that, there's at least a general psychology to the main eventers matches. And my main focus is understanding why people believe Shelton deserves in the main event.

Well, you watch Shelton's matches against HBK and The Undertaker, and he's shown that he can hang with those guys and have great matches with them. That's why most of his supporters want him main eventing regularly.

I've heard of instances in which he almost hurt Morrison on slams at their Extreme Rules match. I'm not going to say the flip, because that wasn't his fault. However, he did really put himself in danger by not fully rotating on that little flip thing he did.

Yeah, that was dangerous, but it got a pop and people talked about it. All you can do as a mid-carded on a stage such as Wrestlemania is doing something people will never forget. And Shelton did that.

Also, Shelton's botch didn't look nowhere near as brutal as 'Taker's botch later that same night.

Either than that, it's not so much injuries, as his work has become a little sloppy, to me, and I fear that an injury will happen every time I watch him wrestle.

Well, I haven't watched Smackdown in a good lil' bit, so I really don't know. But I know he's been working with R-Truth, and seriously dude... Shelton can only do so much with a guy as limited as R-Truth is.

The only wrestler I feel can make up for his charismatic flaws by his wrestling is Bret Hart. He's the only one that I see wrestle, and don't question his spot in wrestling, merely because of his technical prowress.

What about Chris Benoit?

Either than that, Shelton has to develop some sort of a persona.

I agree, but isn't that WWE creative's job to do so? Wrestlers today aren't given the freedom to come up with their own stuff, so you can't blame Shelton for having a lack of character. It's WWE's job to give him one.

And perhaps if he was portrayed as a bad mamjama, I'd agree. But for the most part, he hid behind his mother, thus why I feel his credibility was somewhat shot.

Yeah, but he was still Shelton Benjamin. He still did the flashly, impressive moves and was finally starting to get his groove back considering before Momma came along, he was on a big losing streak.

And again, he's ok for being in the mid-card. I'd probably peg him as more of a low card man, a curtain jerker myself, but that's just me. The issue isn't with him having a job. The issue is when people bitch that he deserves a main event spot, which it does not seem you're doing right now.

Well, I don't frequent the WWE Boards enough to see so many people claim Shelton should be headlining Wrestlemania, so I didn't know it was that bad. I knew the guy had fans who felt he was underutilized (hell, I'm one of them), but I don't think WWE should built the entire company around him, nor should anyone else.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

This musnt be a thread about Shelton Benjamin, becuase I am seeing lots of people saying they "like his ring work"

Um, what exactly about it? You like horrible botches? ridiculous, phony looking matches? you enjoy wrestlers nearly allowing other wrestlers to break their fucking necks on high spots?

Shelton Benjamin is absolutely abysmal in the ring. Embarassing. He is easily one of the bottom 3 workers in the WWE.

No one gives a shit about him, he cant cut promos, and he is downright fucking dangerous in the ring. I dont understand what anyone else likes about him either

 

[HBK-aholic]

I think you're making the mistake of assuming if you like someone it also means you think they're good enough to be a Main Eventer, which I don't believe is true. I really like watching Benjamin wrestle. But that being said I know he shouldn't be in the ME, I've argued against that before. Benjamin doesn't have the charisma to be a good Main Eventer and I doubt he ever will be. I still like him, he just wouldn't be good for the business on top.

 

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

X, JT and jmt you just made my day. That's what these boards about, decent fucking discussions. That was the best debate I've seen in a while.

Anyways, I agree (sorry JT) with X and jmt. Shelton does do decent in-ring (haha Nor Cal) work. Seriously when has he ever hurt anyone or himself? 80% of the guys on the roster make a botch every now and then or look spotty. That's what 'professional wrestling" is. It's like a freaking dance, coreographed. Shelton just happens to be one of the few guys who will do big spots but not look like he is thinking "ok, now punch. Kick. Suplex anddddddddddddddddddd pin." He looks natural in the ring to me, yeah he does spots (so does Cena, HHH, Orton, Jericho, Mysterio, Hardy.... the list would go from start to finish of the roster). Wresting IS a spot fest.

That being said Shelton is in no way main event material though. He is a great mid carder that doesnt need mic time and just has to rock up and put on a decent match then go back to the locker room. From what I've heard he doesnt even want to be any higher up, he know's he's not great on the mic and is content and happy to put on decent match's through the mid card.

I wouldn't call myself a "fan" of his but I definatley enjoy his match's, I am consistantly entertained by them. But hey JT, everyone has different opinions on what they like and don't like. If everyone liked the same thing the world would be a fucking boring place. I DO know what you mean though about people on this board wanting to suck some Shelton cock for him to be in the main event and I'm with you on that being completely ludicrous, there is absolutley no way he should be representing any of the brands, hell not even ECW.

Thanks JT for a good thread and cheers X and jmt for good posts, this is why I come to these boards.

 

[Tenta]

Thanks Hardymark, and everyone that's posted in this matter. I don't have much energy to answer everyone's posrt.... No, that'll be for tomorrow morning, should I actually remember.

I'd just like to leave off on a few things;

JMT225, yes, he's working with the Truth, but the fact is, Truth is again carrying his own in his matches. Is Truth still spotty? Meh, I suppose so, but any more so than Shelton is in his matches. Shelton is far more prone to using dangerous moves than any other wrestler under the WWE flag. That, coupled with his gut wrenching promos, just make be the world's biggest anti-mark for Shelton Benjamin.

Whipser, it's not the educated folk of WZ that have this issue, as much so as.... Well, people like this:

I wish I had the courage to be as stupid as you are. Shelton Benjamin gets a good reaction from the crowd when he wrestles. Is it as big as someone like Jeff Hardy's? No, but to say he couldn't get X Pac heat if you multiplied by 10 is utter bullshit.

During his match last year against Matt Hardy, half the crowd was chanting his name. This was during a match against a freakin' Hardy and the crowd popped for him.

Or you can watch the match he was in with Haas against Cryme Tyme a few weeks back and see the adults in the crowd cheering for him after he hit Paydirt and pinned Shad.

So please, next time know what the fuck you're talking about.

Benjamin is as good on the mic as he needs to be. I do think he deserves a main event push, even if it's just to see what happens. I say what the WWE is gonna get out of it is a new enigmatic main eventer who has enough in-ring ability to impress even the most critical of fans. Turn Shelton face and put him up against Edge at Summerslam after Edge walks in and discovers that everything has been painted gold.

You see.... This is exactly why I had my little bar rant a couple of nights ago. This is what I've been putting up with. Flaming, flaws in grammar, but overall.... Flat out stupidity. Admittedly, the IWC has soured me on wrestlers, just like Shelton.

The question is simple, though.

1. Why do the "wannabe smarks" of the IWC do this?

2. Will you come back to the Wrestling Forums?

 

[kingdirrtysouth1]

I've been a fan ever since he debuted on SD with Hass as Team Angle. The man is unequaled as far as actual wrestling skills go. Hass may be the only person that comes close in the WWE! He out wrestled HBK on Raw & can pull off some amazing spots when called upon to do so. He proved how good he was as tag team wrestler with Team & proved how good was as a single wrestler when he faced Triple H on Raw after the draft! If WWE actually gave a shit about technical matches, or would give him a mouth piece, he would definitely be a main event player!

 

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

Whipser, it's not the educated folk of WZ that have this issue, as much so as.... Well, people like this:


[QUOTE/]Originally Posted by MyselfTheThird
Benjamin is as good on the mic as he needs to be. I do think he deserves a main event push, even if it's just to see what happens. I say what the WWE is gonna get out of it is a new enigmatic main eventer who has enough in-ring ability to impress even the most critical of fans. Turn Shelton face and put him up against Edge at Summerslam after Edge walks in and discovers that everything has been painted gold.

[/QUOTE]


Ahahahahahahaha so good. Perfect example.

The IWC tends to go that way sometimes and are just trying to be better than they really are or act like they know a lot more than they do. I've only been on the boards and i guess an IWC 'member' (i think lol) since January but I know my place and only get into a discussion if I feel good about it and have something decent to post. Some people really shit me with their egotistical bullshit in trying to build up posts.

Anyways sorry dude that was way off topic. You have my opinion above but I definatly understand what you're saying but I think Shelton is perfect right where he is (the mid card) and is good in the ring. No need for the main event, he's ok in what he's doing though.

 

[Tenta]

Oh, goody, our first contestant. I can stay up for the likes of you.

I've been a fan ever since he debuted on SD with Hass as Team Angle.

You mean when Kurt Angle was his mouthpiece, and he didn't have to show his lackluster promo ability, and could allow Kurt Angle to get all the heat either he or Charlie needed?

The man is unequaled as far as actual wrestling skills go..

...... Are we talking, you know, in the history of the WWE? Because even if we're not, I'd like to know what you mean by technical skills. Do you mean, like, botching spots, and jumping off of ladders? Or maybe you mean bouncing around the ring like a jumping bean? You probably mean his suplexes and shit, though.

Sigh.... Shelton's suplexes are sloppy, and one of these days, he's going to drop someone on their head. He already injured Kennedy. Just you wait for the next name.

Hass may be the only person that comes close in the WWE!

.... Do you mean in absolutely not being able to attract fans to his matches at all? Because, you know, Charlie had that run where he imitated people. That got a couple fans.

He out wrestled HBK on Raw

I'm sorry..... It's really late, and I'm tired. I could have sworn you said he outwrestled Shawn....

Holy Balls, you did! Jesus Christ, what the Hell! Is, like suplexes and stuff your idea of "outwrestling"? Because I can assure you one thing, Shawn carried that match. Mainly because Shawn has something Shelton still doesn't. That's "Ring psychology".

Not only that, but that was well over three years ago. Anyway...

can pull off some amazing spots when called upon to do so.

Oh.... I get it.... you like him because he does flips off of ladders and shit...

Look, doing a sommersault off a ladder isn't that hard. Painful? Absolutely. A good way to shorten your career? You bet. But it doesn't make one bit of a good wrestler. At all.

He proved how good he was as tag team wrestler with Team & proved how good was as a single wrestler when he faced Triple H on Raw after the draft!.

Sigh.... so in other words, a tag team run and beating Triple H proves he should be a main eventer? Right.....

If WWE actually gave a shit about technical matches, or would give him a mouth piece, he would definitely be a main event player!

And you have completely managed to devalue this thread I had going here. Congrats.

 

[kingdirrtysouth1]

Oh, goody, our first contestant. I can stay up for the likes of you.




You mean when Kurt Angle was his mouthpiece, and he didn't have to show his lackluster promo ability, and could allow Kurt Angle to get all the heat either he or Charlie needed?




...... Are we talking, you know, in the history of the WWE? Because even if we're not, I'd like to know what you mean by technical skills. Do you mean, like, botching spots, and jumping off of ladders? Or maybe you mean bouncing around the ring like a jumping bean? You probably mean his suplexes and shit, though.

Sigh.... Shelton's suplexes are sloppy, and one of these days, he's going to drop someone on their head. He already injured Kennedy. Just you wait for the next name.



.... Do you mean in absolutely not being able to attract fans to his matches at all? Because, you know, Charlie had that run where he imitated people. That got a couple fans.




I'm sorry..... It's really late, and I'm tired. I could have sworn you said he outwrestled Shawn....

Holy Balls, you did! Jesus Christ, what the Hell! Is, like suplexes and stuff your idea of "outwrestling"? Because I can assure you one thing, Shawn carried that match. Mainly because Shawn has something Shelton still doesn't. That's "Ring psychology".

Not only that, but that was well over three years ago. Anyway...



Oh.... I get it.... you like him because he does flips off of ladders and shit...

Look, doing a sommersault off a ladder isn't that hard. Painful? Absolutely. A good way to shorten your career? You bet. But it doesn't make one bit of a good wrestler. At all.



Sigh.... so in other words, a tag team run and beating Triple H proves he should be a main eventer? Right.....




And you have completely managed to devalue this thread I had going here. Congrats.

Sure he may be sloppy from time to time, but so is Orton! Did you not see when Shawn tried to take him down to the mat? He couldn't hang with him! Go back and watch the match, you'll see what I mean! If you think Shawn carried the match, you're out your fuckin mind! When I said Hass was the only one who come close to him, I meant technical wrestling skills! It's not his fault they don't let him display it anymore! And no, I don't mean in the history of the company. I didn't just start watching yesterday! I never said shit about charisma! He proved that he didn't need to be carried by more than holding his own with Triple who was and is a main eventer. We both know, he can do more just fall or flip off ladders! My point is that, if not for his bland mic skills and lack of charisma , he would be a main event player! But, hey, at least you know what managers are for...right? As far as devaluing this thread, you just did that. You asked for opinions & that's what I gave! You were looking for someone to "own" I guess. I hope your happy!

 

[Tenta]

Sure he may be sloppy from time to time, but so is Orton! Did you not see when Shawn tried to take him down to the mat? He couldn't hang with him! Go back and watch the match, you'll see what I mean! If you think Shawn carried the match, you're out your fuckin mind! When I said Hass was the only one who come close to him, I meant technical wrestling skills! It's not his fault they don't let him display it anymore! And no, I don't mean in the history of the company. I didn't just start watching yesterday! I never said shit about charisma! He proved that he didn't need to be carried by more than holding his own with Triple who was and is a main eventer. We both know, he can do more just fall or flip off ladders! My point is that, if not for his bland mic skills and lack of charisma , he would be a main event player! But, hey, at least you know what managers are for...right? As far as devaluing this thread, you just did that. You asked for opinions & that's what I gave! You were looking for someone to "own" I guess. I hope your happy!

Sigh..... ok, now I feel like a dick...

My bad... No harm meant by it, and simply enough, I get really into the spirit of debate. Now then.... Here's my question... Don't you feel like a certain amount of charisma, and for that matter, those mic skills, are extremely important in wrestling nowadays? And without them, how do you suppose Shelton succeeds in WWE?

 

[The Doctor]

I don't. I find him rather boring, actually. You can say he's a "FANTASTIC ATHLETE" and all that, but talent don't mean shit if you don't do anything with it. Maybe he's a good athlete, but there's nothing to me that stands out in his matches.
I haven't seen "classic" Benajmin, and I don't feel like looking it up. Go ahead and say "HE CAN DO AMAZING MOVES". That may be, but until he starts showing me those amazing moves in the present, I won't like him.
The only time I was entertained by him was when he was on ECW. His feud with Kofi was fantastic.
I think they should put him back on ECW, where the roster is smaller and he'd have more time to shine. I wouldn't mind him as an ECW Champion...

 

[Nev]

In 2004 or 2005, Trips said that Shelton Benjamin lacked "something that connects himself with the fans".

I believe it is true what he means by this.

Also, in that same sentence, which I pulled out of context(sorry), he said the same about RVD.

That really pissed off RVD, lol. Not Benjamin though.

Benjamin needs a gimmick, imo.

Or Vince wants him to get a little bit more ripped.

I hope he loses the blond hair, honestly.

 

[kingdirrtysouth1]

Sigh..... ok, now I feel like a dick...

My bad... No harm meant by it, and simply enough, I get really into the spirit of debate. Now then.... Here's my question... Don't you feel like a certain amount of charisma, and for that matter, those mic skills, are extremely important in wrestling nowadays? And without them, how do you suppose Shelton succeeds in WWE?

Don't feel bad, I wasn't offended by your response! I guess my sarcasm doesn't translate well over the net! Yes, you're right about the charisma and mic skills, but my point is that if certain people didn't think managers were obsolete, Shelton would still be in a position to at least get a crack at the main event! He does have solid matches on SD. His matches with Morrison weren't that sloppy, he wasn't sloppy against Taker, and I think working the more aggressive, straightforward style suits him better that when he does the crowd pleasing stunts! Unfortunately, his blandness does nothing but hurt him! Having his "mama" in his corner didn't exactly help matters! He's no worse than Koslov & he got a main event push! But then Koslov has size on his side & we all know how Vince loves those big men! To be honest, I've given up on him ever getting that push, especially after taking the loss in the six man tag last Friday night when they RICK ORTIZ on the same team! He'll probably be pinned by R-Truth tomorrow night as well. I don't read spoilers so I don't know,(don't tell me) but that's probably what happens!

 

[Lee]

Give Benjamin some time. Five years is nothing, his career has only just begun.

And there we have it, the phrase that will actually result in me giving a positive post about Shelton Benjamin, has the world gone mad?!

Now I have two major gripes with Benjamin

1) The love the IWC has for him, all based on a feud that happened five years ago.

2) His inconsistency.

Benjamin can perform amazingly well in the MiTB matches, but it's the rest of the year I find him boring. I know he can perform, I've seen it, but it's almost as if he's not trying. Anyways I get on the point that X noted;

He debuted in 2002, which has given him seven years in WWE, whilst some stars have rocketed to the top in that time (Orton, Batista) benjamin seems to be doing what I feel is better in the long run, he's slowly developing. Take a look at Bret Hart, how long he was in WWF before he got a real chance at the main event. I think we need to just wait and see with Benjamin, not say he's the best thing ever (because he's not) but then just give him a chance to grow.

 

[Nate DaMac]

So this what you were doing yesterday. The flaming example you used was against me. I only like Benjamin for one reason, I like spots. But knowing that, I do not think he deserves a ME spot at all. I have been letting the smarks get the best of me in the past(the post I had planned to respond to that flamer would have got me banned) but I have calmed down. To those who think he needs more time, I have to disagree. I think the only shred of a chance he had is long gone, ane he has significantly devalued over the years. Dirtysouth, why do you use exclamation points instead of periods?