Why do the WWE persist with this?

[MaxSteel]

I simply can't help but wonder - why do the WWE persist with making their top future heels have those damn low/low-mid card rookies along with them?
I'm talking, naturally, about A-Ri and Brodus Clay. Let me state my case with each and every one of them separately -

Alex Riley was the Miz's "apprentice" since the long forgotten NXT 2. To be honest, I really liked their decision back than - Alex Riley fit The Miz greatly (character vise), and him being with the then-mid-carder Miz was a great a great elevation for him, and also helped The Miz look a bit better. However, month went by, Riley kept jobbing more and more, and on the contrary, The Miz won the WWE (now - MME ) championship. From a duo of one upper mid carder and one low mid carder. this turned into a duo of one jobber and one main eventer. At that point, while still being viable, the idea started making The Miz look more and more weak. I know the lazy ass creative team needed Riley to give The Miz a few "dirty" wins without thinking about a creative way for The Miz to win by cheating, but still, that doesn't make it look any better.
Now, the Miz's great Wrestlemania feud with John Cena and The Rock came. Here, the WWE simply had to make The Miz look strong, else there would be no point in the whole WM Championship feud (and I don't need to tell you why that'd be bad). I was afraid about them coming up with some terrible story that'd make The Miz look weaker than ever, but they impressed me - they actually let Miz beat the hell out of John Cena for nearly a month, and the best part of it was.. when they finally removed Alex Riley! Now, I got nothing against A-Ri, but the way WWE have been "building" him in the last year, he has no business being even near the main event. And without him, The Miz suddenly looked strong (while he was beating the hell out of John Cena, without any outside help). And what do WWE do? THEY BRING IT! And by "it", I mean "freaken Alex Riley". They bring him back to be with The Miz, and by doing this, they make The Miz look weak yet again. I don't care what you say, but even if you deny it, deep inside you know that the way The Rock whooped A-Ri's and Miz's candy asses in a 2v1 - a freaken 2v1 - just made The Miz look that much of a weaker champion. And I'm not saying this cause I hate The Miz, I'm actually a big fan of his, but come ON! Even with his amazing mic skills (and he really does have them - a sole mention of "the O-brothers" shows he knows how to work on the mic and make himself look relevant), he still can't look strong if the WWE continues to make him look as if he relies on Alex Riley to do all his dirty job. Stop this!

Now, about Del Rio and Rhodus Clay...
First, I want to say that Clay really has what it takes to successfully be one of WWE's giants (well.. a bit of mic skills/agility, and a huge body is all that one needs to have ), and I do see a bright future for him in the WWE. However, I want to emphasize the word future. At the moment, even if he does look somewhat impressive, he's far from being a credible wrestler. Making him job to SD! upper carders wont make him look that amazing, I assure you. He may big big, but he's still a rookie fresh out of an NXT season. Just look at Del Rio whenever he's alone, compared to whenever he has Brodus Clay to do everything for him:
Before Brodus Clay: Del Rio, the up coming Mexican super-heel of the WWE, looks.. simply amazing. He solely beats up everyone who opposes him, follows ip up by a submission that looks as if it's gonna rip their arm of, and leaves them broken in the ring/ringside. He looks like a credible strong top heel, that can get the job one by himself. That's something the WWE has been lacking for a long, long time.
After Brodus Clay: Del Rio, the Royal Rumble winner, looks like a weak, cowardly heel who needs the big semi-jobber to beat up his enemies before he's able to do anything to them. I haven't seen a single time he won any match since Clay joined him. More over, each time he and Brodus face E&C, their tag-team loses over and over again, making him (not even mentioning Brodus) look weaker. This hasn't been going for too long, so there isn't much damage done to Del Rio's character yet, but I assure you that the longer it continues, the worse Del-Rio will look. It's one thing to have the personal announcer distract your opponent for a second, giving you the win, but it's a totally different thing when you have a giant semi-jobber beating your every enemy, making you look like you rely on him. Not to mention the times when Brodus will interfere and Del Rio will still get beaten or beaten up (oh and if I know the WWE, those times will come as well). And I got an even better one - Which heel looks stronger: The one who by himself (with a bit help from his personal announcer) overcomes 2 top faces, or the one who does it with considerable help from both a giant and his announcer? You decide.
So the way I see it, Brodus may benefit from his involvement in this feud, but Del Rio surely doesn't.

So, here's the discussion:
1. How do you feel about WWE's top heels being attached those sidekicks?
2. Do you think WWE could've done anything better regarding Brodus/A-Ri?
3. When do you think WWE should disband those heel duo's (or one of them), or/and should they have done so earlier?

Discuss.

 

[Reddog1146]

i was excited when alex riley got fired, it opened up a whole lot of opportunities for him. he could go for singles, doubles, attack the miz, john cena. but no, they hire him back under some title i can not even remember. now he is back to being a scapegoat for the miz.

i hope the brodus clar del rio pairing ends soon. i hope they are just pairing them to have an excuse to get clay into smackdown without winning NXT. i thinkl that is the case, if not then that would suck because it would make brodus look that much weaker.

 

[Trill Co$by]

Well, it really wouldn't make sense to have The Miz turn CM Punk into his lackey now would it? I mean except for both being heels and hating Cena, there's nothing too substantially common about them AND they're both top heels.

I see nothing wrong with it. Miz and Del Rio are easily getting some heat for their heel characters while this also gives Riley and Clay TV time to build them up for either the separation from teacher (Riley) or the dropped from clan cause they suck and turn him face (Clay) storylines. Trust me, everything that WWE is doing is because WWE knows what they're doing.

 

[Nate DaMac]

So here we have 2 young guys who are getting TV time by being associated with the top heels on their respective brands, and you're somehow finding this to be a bad thing?

I guess it appears that you're in this group of smarks who forget everything that's ever been done in wrestling and all of a sudden heels need to be booked to look strong. NEWSFLASH: They don't. They never have and they never will. Miz has gone over DB and Kofi clean since holding the title, and he should as they are lower level guys. But when it comes to guys like Cena and Orton, he's SUPPOSED to use underhanded cheap tactics to get one over on him. It's called being a heel. You can do the same thing on Smackdown, just switch out Miz with ADR and Orton & Cena with Edge & Christian.

Giving Clay and Riley TV time is only good for everyone. It associates them with heels that are already drawing heat so it gives them heat by association. It's a safer bet than having them go over someone like say,DB and potentially harm his stock by jobbing him out to someone no one cares about when he himself needs all the credibility he can get. By taking this current route, if Clay and Riley go on their own and fail, no harm no foul.

If you really think heels need to be booked to look strong, just look back at the 2 greatest heels of all time; Ted DiBiase and Ric Flair. Both men rarely went over the top guys clean and they were always made out to look weaker than their face counterparts.

We have a name for those who win their matches clean, their called faces.

 

[rkonextphenom]

in my opinion the miz was pared with alex riley because the miz is a weak champion. It makes more sense to have Riley constantly hlep the Miz retain his title because its just not believable for the Miz to beat main eventers by himself he cant sell it. Like on Raw this monday, can anyone actually see the Miz jump the Rock by himself!? No he needs someone else to take all the heavy hits, granted heels having been doing this for a long time, with the Miz it just seems laughable that he would talk this big game and then need help to back it up. All im saying is without Riley, the Miz would be a very week champion and wouldnt last 5 minutes facing John Cena.

Now the Del Rio situation is a lot diiferent. He's not a champion but has the look and feel of a strong champion. Having Brodus Clay around is only trying to elevate him as a bigger superstar. Theres a differnece between Clay and Riley. Clay can actually have a future in the WWe as a major player(could be thenext umaga) whereas Riley once this Miz angle is done, will fall to the backburners and most likely be released. Del Rio can do a title run by himself and will look strong doing so

 

[kingjaekob]

I like the Alex Riley and Miz pairing! We will see them feud in the future, kinda like HBK vs Diesel. These pairing/feuds have been going on for a long time! Now Del Rio does not need a wrestler pairing, but could use a strong manager in my opinion! Maybe Melina/Eve Torres.

 

[Jason Scene]

Alex Riley is the opposite to Brodus Clay. Alex is a good wrestler, which can seen from watching his old FCW stuff. He fits the role as The Miz's "apprentice" well, and he has a look about him. Since he began on NXT hes simply gotten better-and-better, especially on the microphone.

And then you got Clay. Brodus is good, for a big man, but his look puts me off him. Seems to have a big belly on him, is fairly slow, and hasn't much of a personality either. Alberto Del Rio having a bodyguard fits well though, so, more power to him for being used well enough.

But still, A-Rod I can see going places, Brodus, he'll be working in JCW within the next five years.

 

[Thesage1989]

Miz and riley are golden together, Alberto on the other hand does not need Brodus but Brodus is getting a major rub for when he goes on his own. But i like Kingjaekob's idea of the female manager for ALberto however i prefer Rosa Mendes as Alberto appeared to be interested in her and she would also get the push that i want her to get.

 

[blkshp]

I have to agree with F.A.T., heels are and have ALWAYS looked weaker: Flair and Dibiase are two great examples of that. ADR has already established himself, but this whole year, his announcer has been helping him win matches! Clay is just another tool for him, and its a good rub for him to be going to WM27 in Del Rio's corner. That's a good thing for Clay and makes Del Rio look like an opportunistic heel, which is what he's been booked as the whole time anyway. As for Miz, I really don't get all the venom a lot of smarks have for the guy. He's good on the mic, I'm mean he's not Rock or Flair, but he's good at getting heat, even if he's borrowing from Jericho with the monotone talking, lol. He's improved in the ring--again, he aint HBK or Bret Hart, but he's not the worst I've even seen in a main event (ahem Great Khali anybody? THAT was painful). So he doesn't look like he can beat Cena 1 on 1...because he's not supposed too! Main event level heels cheat! They have managers/valets/sidekicks/corrupt GM's/or stables create a disadvantage so the heroic baby face can overcome. That's the point. A Ri is Miz's lapdog, and he's playing the role fine.
They got beat down by the Rock to make him look strong after 7 years off. I also hear complaining that Riley shouldn't have hit the Rock first, again who cares? Rock and Miz will have their moment, so will anybody remember Riley hit him 1st in the long run? As for their futures, Riley's looks brighter then Clay's to me IF, he stays out of trouble (no more DUI's) and improves his overall ring work. The guy can talk on the mic and is a natural heel, this should be his springboard. Clay has potential too, but IMO needs more in ring training, but then with the lack of territories, who doesn't right?

 

[blkshp]

Also, not a big fan of Del Rio having a manager, he should be the boss, it wouldn't fit his character to have a manager. A valet on the other hand would be fine, but it shouldn't be long term.

 

[Scuba 06]

I pretty much agree with what rko said. I'm not really sure why Del Rio is being paired with Clay, but it might have to do with Christian being in Edge's corner for mania. Obviously it could be to get him more heat or get tv time for clay as well. I personally dont Del Rio needs Clay and can pretty much sell himself as a top-tier competitor.

On the otherhand, The Miz needs Riley. If WWE didnt think Mike needed Riley they wouldnt have brought him back after being supposedly fired from his position. Miz its sad to say, although he is WWE Champion, is not an established main eventer. Its hard to take Miz seriously not because he looks or acts goofy, its because he never did anything of significane before winning the strap.

Del Rio had a long program with one of the top faces in the company and came out the better man. the matches were pretty good and Del Rio showed and consistently proves he brings it in the ring. Then he went on to the rumble with 40 people and won. Although I think WWE is rushing his push, they did give him some strong credentials to back it up, not to mention he is already a legit and huge wrestling star outside the U.S. Del Rio has pretty much proven he can probably be a legit champ, he obviously he gets the heat anyway.

With the Miz, the booking of his character has done more damage to him than good. First off WWE took the US title off him and before spending a minute in the main event scene, he is already crowned WWE champion. Miz already had a lot of doubters, esentially because he never defended his us title and his performances were very average. So you have a guy who is basically a paper champ who cant hold is own in the ring to put the doubters to rest.

WWE did good by letting him beat Orton but he because of his kind of fluke title win he needed to go over clean. But those matches werent that great and one was competed under one of the most gimmicky matches possible. Then as the doubters grow, you book him against lawler, who is over 60 years old ? What about surviving the chamber with 5 other guys. The Miz is just built to look weak, but which dosent help him get over because its cheap heat. So to make up for his lack of heat, he needs his own manager and his announcer. Really how can anyone say Miz has been booked well ? Does a heel cheat yes. But Miz is a special case, where as he has some many people sayinh he isnt legit champ, WWE could just put him over by having him win clean, then he could come out and say he is that good.

Thats only part of it though and it will take more than that to get him over. Here is the difference btw ADR & Miz. Del Rio is good in the ring and the mic. Miz is only good on the mic. The Miz lovers need to realize, WWE will continue to make Miz look weak until he rises to the occasion. I have never been a fan of Miz for that reason. He is an extremely average performer. Miz can not sell his matches or performances and until he does, he will not earn the respect of most fans. HHH didnt become respected because he beat Foley, its fake, no one beats anyone. Its the match that sold HHH to the fans. Those matches were great and became classic. Miz lacks anything like that throughout his mediocre career. Thats why he isnt respected. He pretty much is a paper champ who was given the strap to add a new face to the ME scene. Only Miz can step up and prove himself and no amount of promos will make up for that.

 

[Rampage Bentley]

First of all, I think you're making the mistake of refering to Miz and ADR as the top heels, or even future top heels. Miz isn't top anything, I'm patiently awaiting for his 15 minutes to end, that way the real top heels like CM Punk can be in the main event.

And while I do like Alberto, and I do think he can and probably will be one of the top heels, you have to remember, he (and Miz) have absolutely no credibility right now. The only reason they're main eventing Mania is because of an extremely shallow roster this year. For them to be taking on guys like Cena and Edge, they have to be given a kayfabe chance to walk out as neither one of them is a solidified main eventer yet.

Having their little cronies is benefitting Miz and Del Rio as much as it is Alex Riley and Brodus Clay.

 

[80's were better]

As stated earlier heels are meant to look weak so that the Face can look unbeatable. Having a lackey is not abad thing for either the Miz or ADR both guys serve their purpose. Riley takes the beatings while the Miz runs his mouth about how awesome he is. Its working considering how much heat he gets on here. As for ADR and Brodus it makes sense because isn't ADR suppose to be this wealthy snobby Mexican aristocrat why wouldn't he have a bodyguard,Dibease did.
It the long run it doesn't hurt anyone involved if anything it helps.

 

[CuddleBuns84]

Ask Orton about hanging around the top heel of the company for a few years. It can do wonders for one's career.

Anyways, what better way for these young guys to get a good rub. Being henchmen for top heels. It helps the heels get over, and helps these guys get over.

For example. Virgil. Yes, he was mid-card at best. But, if you watch his Summerslam match against the Million Dollar Man in 91 I do believe. He got a huge pop when he beat him. Virgil had a good run as the Million Dollar champion. Was relevant for a while. Sure, he had no career like the Million Dollar Man, but hey he got broke in, got noticed, and some of us still remember him from the long days ago.

HBK for 7 months had Chyna and HHH follow him around. Did wonders for their career. HBK left, and look what happen. HHH became a decent draw. Chyna did things that most women wrestlers could only dream of.

The Rock got paired with the Nation, which was a huge career move for him. He went heel, got more mic time. People started liking him more. Him and Farooq (Ron Simmons) had a decent feud. If he didn't do that, he would of been just the blue chipper that no one liked.

Now, their are times when having a lackey or henchmen doesn't help. I mean they had that Australian by the name of Nathan Jones, who worked with the Undertaker at Wrestlemania. After that, we never saw him again. In fact we never saw him in the match till the very end at WM19 I do believe.

So overall, pair a young talent, with an over talent is a good move in my book. It helps more people get over, and gets them noticed. Not everyone can be Bill Goldberg who comes out, and just smashes everyone in the ring, and get huge pops for it. If it was that easy, Matt Morgan would be main eventing Wrestlemania after Wrestlemania (I like Matt Morgan by the way, but it was very hard to get that guy over).

 

[El Rev sXe]

In some way I can see what the OP is saying. I don't like Alex Riley, I hate his gimmick. However every single great heel has at leat one henchman. Orton, Punk, HHH, HBK, Ted Dibiase, Angle, Flair... Is heel 101 basically. There is a point where they don't need them like Orton, SCSA did. However for a newbie (as far maint event concerns) like the Miz, he needs a henchman to get his ass kicked every single week. The same thing about Alberto Del Rio.

One thing, Brodus Clay doesn't belong with Alberto. Look at Riley, he looks like a Miz wannabe. Brodus Clay has nothing in him that looks like Alberto. I mean, the guy should be someone else's bitch. Plus Alberto already has his announcer.

 

[silrock316]

Wait this is a serious thread?

They have been doing this FOR YEARS. Most of the time the wrestler they use to help the main eventer at the time turns out to be good. Diesel came over from WCW and was a bodyguard for HBK and he turns out being a maineventer.

HHH brings Batista along out of nowhere and then he comes a star.

In some cases it does NOT happen however like when Ted Dibease had Virgil.

Even Ezekel Jackson was a bodyguard for the little blonde hair dude(forget his name haha)

This has been something going on for YEARS in all of wrestling. I am not going to insult you about the thread but this thread is not a good one.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Big Bossman was a Henchman for Akeem/Slick on his debut...that it went the other way and Bossman became the star was not planned, but it worked... Piper had Orton Sr and Orndorff, Trish was just the T & A in the team of the same name, Earthquake was simply a "fan" in the story who got a job with Jimmy Hart after attacking Hogan... Arn Anderson was originally billed as a cousin to Ole Anderson, who trusted to Flair to "mould" his family member...

Protoge and Teacher/Leader has been used for years, since Zybysko turned on Bruno Sammartino... bring in new blood with established stars and if the cream rises then put a belt on them or main event them.

Even Virgil got his push, wins over DiBiase for the M$ title, Piper in his corner at Mania... at one time he was a big deal and thought to be a future star. That he blew it with those trousers (shudders) is beside the point.

 

[bxbigshow]

I'll keep it short because alot of decent points have been made on both sides of the argument. And I'll only speak on Brodus because Miz had A-Ri for almost a year now (including NXT2).

I like Brodus, he has passable mic skill, can work a bit in the ring, but has a massive/impressive look. His promo at the end of his NXT season was the best promo on any NXT in my opinion..

His being ADR's bodyguard works well. It helps get him on SD! w/o explaining how the loser of NXT has a job while the winner is invisible. He plays the Curtis Hughes/Kevin Nash role to ADR's Shawn Michaels. He get the needed in-ring experience...all positives for him.

As for Del Rio? He is the aristocratic heel, while he's showed in the Mysterio/Christian feuds that he can legitimately beat you. Now by adding a bodyguard, something that DiBiase and JBL (by extention his 'Cabinet) have done with the same gimmick, he shows that he doesn't have to.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Yeah I'm sorry but this sounds like a perfect example of someone not having a clue about how professional wrestling works at all.

First of all, you have young guys like Alex Riley & Brodus Clay getting time on television. That's a good thing in and of itself for these guys. The WWE obviously likes these two enough to place them with two of the most over heels in wrestling right now. It's referred to as getting a rub. But Riley & Clay aren't top level guys yet and the way that they're being used is appropriate. After all, Clay's not gonna go over Edge, an 11 time World Champion, right now. All that would do at this point would hurt Edge and send his stock with fans plummeting.

As far as the heel thing goes, what is this obssession some modern fans have with heels beeing booked to be this badasses? The greatest heel characters in wrestling history have been consistently booked to look far weaker than their babyface counterparts. You know the reason why wrestling companies keep doing that? Because it works, that's why. The Miz, since becoming WWE Champion, has scored clean pinfall victories over John Morrison, Daniel Bryan & Kofi Kingston. These three guys are currently mid-card/upper mid-card wrestlers while The Miz is a main eventer. The Miz went over those guys cleanly, just as he should be expected to, as he's "above" those particular guys right now. Wrestlers like John Cena & Randy Orton are two of the most over faces in wrestling right now and are both multiple time World Champions. Miz is supposed to cheat his ass off to score wins or to score any sort of advantage over those two that he possibly can.

Ric Flair, Ted Dibiase, Macho Man Randy Savage, Shawn Michaels Triple H, The Rock, and any number of other huge stars throughout wrestling history that've been heels at one point have been booked EXACTLY the same as heels today. Why? As I said earlier, it's because it ALWAYS works.

 

[merce07]

I think the big problem is that Riley isnt going to get much from the Miz. The Miz is nowhere near a top heel. Upper mid card at best but he is still being pushed. When established names like Triple H, Ted Dibiase and even Orton had henchmen they really got a great rub since they were associated with top stars. Riley is viewed as nothing more than a joke since his boss is more or less a joke himself. So I would expect Riley to go the Kenney from the Spirit Squad route, wrestle a few years in the lower mid card and never be heard of again.


However even though Del Rio is more or less on the same level as the Miz I think Brodus Clay will get a good rub. Del Rio can actually be taken seriously and monsters are pretty easy to build. All he will have to do is spend a couple of months destroying Del Rios opponents and decimating jobbers and he will be a solid mid card threat.