Why do fans hold so many grudges?

[MartialHorror]

I remember chuckling when I said I would prefer 'Triple H vs Sting' over 'Undertaker Vs Sting' and someone shot back that Triple H would just bury Sting. Admittedly there was a time when this probably would be true...like maybe 10 years ago. But when you look as his in-ring work as of 2014, he spent the entire year putting over Bryan and the Shield. Even before the Bryan backlash occurred, the original plan was for CM Punk to defeat Triple H at wrestlemania. So it's not like Triple H is that same guy.

When Rollins brought up Batista, audiences audibly booed. So they're still sore over the Rumble, even though it had almost been a year since then. There are so many comments about Cena refusing to job, even though he lost quite a bit in 2014. Even Hogan occasionally still gets bitched about.

I get being annoyed and resentful, but why do these grudges maintain so much heat after so long? Especially if the wrestler seems to have gone out of their way to change peoples perceptions about them?

 

[rmp0012002]

Wrestlers don't change their stripes because they're generous or feel the need to put people over it's because they're told to. I think people have started complaining is because it the same guys over and over and over or someone that has been gone for years, as in Batista's case or The Rock, is essentially handed the belt their first show back when other guys should be elevated. If Hogan could function the slightest he would be given a title run by Vince, that's a given. All Punk wanted was his goal of main eventing WM, how hard was it for Vince to give that to him.

Arguing over UT vs Sting or Sting vs HHH is people not living in today but ten to fifteen years ago. All three are old but Sting is 55, Taker is 48 going on 68 by his looks and HHH is in great shape for having a 20 year career. HHH vs Sting would be the better more compelling match today but it's wrestling, I don't get worked up over stupid shit like that but other people are consumed by it for some reason.

All I wanted was wrestling to have a resemblance of believability but when celebrities are winning belts and cartoon characters are beating people then you have insulted my intelligence but it seems a lot of people are sheep and eat what they are fed.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I think a lot of the complaints revolve around wrestlers who're pushed, being pushed, about to be pushed or whatever whereas some fans prefer someone else. Maybe they're just not fans of the guys being pushed or who've become big stars and thought that there were superior choices to be made. As a result of those "superior choices" not being made, some fans have to have a reason for that to happen and all these big conspiracy theories pop up and/or accusations of backstage politics or the age old "they don't know what they're doing" criticisms. For instance, I remember some posters on these boards felt that Shelton Benjamin should be given a major push. Their reasoning: he's such a great athlete. While certainly true, he also had the personality of dry grass who couldn't get fans to invest in him and it's not as though he didn't get opportunities. He had a couple of long, significant mid-card title runs, he scored wins over Triple H, RVD, Chris Jericho and some others. Benjamin was good mid-card/tag team wrestler in WWE that some felt would be a main eventer once he left. Well, Benjamin has been working primarily for ROH and New Japan since late 2010 and where's he been? Exactly where he was in WWE: in the mid-card/tag team picture.

I think that Triple H is a good example of someone that's made it as a major star who also gets a good deal of hate from a fair number of internet fans. Now someone, somewhere, somehow at any given time is going to draw the ire of some internet fans because every wrestler is going to have his or her detractors. However, Triple H is someone that's been very frequently harped on for the past 15 years or so. Triple H is criticized for his association with The Kliq back in the day, he's been accused of only being a big name because of his relationship with Stephanie McMahon, that he has an overblown ego, etc.

It's true that Triple H was part of The Kliq and that he's played politics. However, a lot of anti Triple H fans conveniently forget that their all time favorites like Hulk Hogan or Ric Flair did the same thing and played backstage politics on a whole other level. Hence, you've got something of a double standard because Flair & Hogan being childhood favorites somehow makes it different. It's true that Triple H played politics, but so has almost every major player in pro wrestling history at some point or another. Flair, Hogan, Savage, Austin, Rock, Cena, Triple H, HBK, Hall, Nash, Hart, Taker, etc. have all played the game of politics backstage as a means of advancing their own careers at the expense of others.

As for Trips only being a big star because of his relationship with Stephanie, it just doesn't hold water I'm afraid. Nepotism might open a couple of doors here and there, but it's ultimately going to have to be ability that determines how big of a star you're gonna be. In TNA within the past few years, we saw Brooke Hogan & Garett Bischoff put into some fairly high profile spots and what happened? They crashed and burned because they had no talent. If Triple H didn't make money, if he didn't have the majority of fans interested in what he was into, if they weren't into his matches, if they just weren't invested in him, then he wouldn't been one of the top guys in WWE since the very, very early 2000s.

 

[Navi]

It's not necessarily that they hold a grudge towards a particular wrestler, it's more like towards the storyline itself, like the Batista example you gave. He hadn't been back in the WWE for 4 years, and I do think fans did want to cheer for him, but it was the fact that Daniel Bryan wasn't included that they turned sour. Even everyone's favourite Rey Mysterio got boo'd that night for doing absolutely nothing but being announced.

Fans get behind a certain wrestler and when they felt that for example Daniel Bryan was getting screwed they got vocal about it. Dave Batista just happened to be in the line of fire that night and got the worst of it.

About a month or so ago fans loved the Big Show because he was on Cena's team at SS, when he turned in the middle of the match, he's now getting boo'd out the building. If he turns face again, all will be forgiven and he'll be back in the fold, so to speak.

It's when a wrestler does something outside of the ring that is deemed unworthy of people adulation then yes fans will hold a grudge. The best two examples of that are Chris Benoit. Great wrestler, horrible human being and he will be remembered forever for the last acts on the face of the earth.

The other would be CM Punk walking out and leaving everyone high and dry. Even hardcore Punk fans now won't have anything to do with him. Yes he still has fans, but lost a lot of credibility with a lot of people, because he showed his true colours. That's when people turn on you and they usually stay that way.

 

[LBGetBack]

I think a lot of the complaints revolve around wrestlers who're pushed, being pushed, about to be pushed or whatever whereas some fans prefer someone else. Maybe they're just not fans of the guys being pushed or who've become big stars and thought that there were superior choices to be made. As a result of those "superior choices" not being made, some fans have to have a reason for that to happen and all these big conspiracy theories pop up and/or accusations of backstage politics or the age old "they don't know what they're doing" criticisms. For instance, I remember some posters on these boards felt that Shelton Benjamin should be given a major push. Their reasoning: he's such a great athlete. While certainly true, he also had the personality of dry grass who couldn't get fans to invest in him and it's not as though he didn't get opportunities. He had a couple of long, significant mid-card title runs, he scored wins over Triple H, RVD, Chris Jericho and some others. Benjamin was good mid-card/tag team wrestler in WWE that some felt would be a main eventer once he left. Well, Benjamin has been working primarily for ROH and New Japan since late 2010 and where's he been? Exactly where he was in WWE: in the mid-card/tag team picture.

I think that Triple H is a good example of someone that's made it as a major star who also gets a good deal of hate from a fair number of internet fans. Now someone, somewhere, somehow at any given time is going to draw the ire of some internet fans because every wrestler is going to have his or her detractors. However, Triple H is someone that's been very frequently harped on for the past 15 years or so. Triple H is criticized for his association with The Kliq back in the day, he's been accused of only being a big name because of his relationship with Stephanie McMahon, that he has an overblown ego, etc.

It's true that Triple H was part of The Kliq and that he's played politics. However, a lot of anti Triple H fans conveniently forget that their all time favorites like Hulk Hogan or Ric Flair did the same thing and played backstage politics on a whole other level. Hence, you've got something of a double standard because Flair & Hogan being childhood favorites somehow makes it different. It's true that Triple H played politics, but so has almost every major player in pro wrestling history at some point or another. Flair, Hogan, Savage, Austin, Rock, Cena, Triple H, HBK, Hall, Nash, Hart, Taker, etc. have all played the game of politics backstage as a means of advancing their own careers at the expense of others.

As for Trips only being a big star because of his relationship with Stephanie, it just doesn't hold water I'm afraid. Nepotism might open a couple of doors here and there, but it's ultimately going to have to be ability that determines how big of a star you're gonna be. In TNA within the past few years, we saw Brooke Hogan & Garett Bischoff put into some fairly high profile spots and what happened? They crashed and burned because they had no talent. If Triple H didn't make money, if he didn't have the majority of fans interested in what he was into, if they weren't into his matches, if they just weren't invested in him, then he wouldn't been one of the top guys in WWE since the very, very early 2000s.

I've got to take issue with what you said about Benjamin. Yes, he was pushed for awhile in 2004-2005.....and it was WORKING! He was popular. Fans were into him. He was performing well. He went against Michaels, Jericho, and Cena in face vs. face matches in 2005, and Shelton had a sizable amount of the crowds rooting for him in each of those matches against huge, well established fan favorites.

WWE ruined him though. He lost the IC title, and......nothing. His storyline was "he's on a losing streak." For 6 months. He lost to everyone....Kerwin White, Trevor Murdoch....everyone. Then they turned him heel.....and gave him mf'in THEA as his "momma"/manager. You've got to be kidding me.

They absolutely sabotaged Shelton, and he never recovered. They tried pushing him again a few times(always as a heel, when he worked much better as a face), but it was too late. They blew the chance of ever elevating him beyond a mid carder.

After he lost the IC title to Carlito in summer 2005, he needed a bigtime feud with one of the top heels. Instead he got a losing streak gimmick. So dumb. Such a shame.

 

[rmp0012002]

Sometimes I think the WWE gives wrestlers a taste of being a star to see how they handle it and if they can't they can never say they didn't have a shot. I also think WWE creative doesn't know how to properly book a person for anything other than a short period so the push stops. But sometimes the roster seems too big and since they can't have everyone as a star people need to be mid careers and others need to be jobbers. Know your role. They get paid well and yeah it sucks but that's life.

 

[Aquaman6686]

Even everyone's favourite Rey Mysterio got boo'd that night for doing absolutely nothing but being announced.

I know I'll get a spam warning for this because it has nothing to do with the original topic, but Rey Mysterio has NEVER been "everyone's favorite". He has a very small fanbase. They're loud, but they're small. Nobody ever wanted Rey Mysterio at the top of the card. Just look at WrestleMania 22. Randy Orton had been talking about Eddie Guerrero being in hell for weeks, and the crowd cheered everything he did and booed Mysterio out of the building. They cheered rabidly for Angle, and cheered rabidly for Orton. Mysterio was the most hated man at WrestleMania 22.

 

[MartialHorror]

Well, like, to elaborate. Triple H gets so much hate, yet the Ultimate Warrior tended to avoid such heat- even before he passed away. Warrior was a much worse politician, apparently wasn't the most pleasant to his fans and his in-ring work kind of blew. This is common knowledge. They even made a DVD about how irksome he could be. Yet he gets more respect. It's even speculated that Triple H's unpleasant wrestlemania experience with him might've lead to his insecurity about jobbing.

Is it because Warrior's career was significantly shorter? I suppose there are other reasons, but wrestling fans long term, seemingly selective memories kind of confuses me. I'd be all for a Batista return as a face, as long as he doesn't hog the scene. But if he returns, he'd likely be booed out of the building for an angle that happened a year ago and ultimately worked in the crowds favor (since Batista was the one who put Bryan over).

 

[mkw1962]

I believe when a Wrestler is a face he gets cheered, accept if your John Cena people that boo him are just tired of him. If you are a heel you will get booed, than there are those that kind of cheer Randy Orton or Bray Wyatt even though they are heels. The fans hold grudges when a heel really does something bad to a fan favorite, now that means that the heel is doing his job. The fans I mean all of us hold grudges when Randy comes back we will cheer him because he will attack the Authority we will not remember he was one of them. We hold grudges only when someone is a heel but we forget when he turns.

 

[ilapierre]

Fans hold grudges for wrestlers playing politics? Hogan, Flair, Savage, Sammartino, Bret, Shawn, Taker, Warrior, Andre, Stone Cold, Rock Triple H, Erik Watts ALL THE BEST. No wait a sec. See all the best above politics guys (but 2) also had the ability to deliver.these are larger than life legends. Ted Dibiase and Jake the Snake and Paul Orndorff were all great heels. They were never top line performers with 20 years of lasting power...However...they could deliver in the ring in supporting roles. Unfortunately, none were married with children to Stephanie..

Jack Hammer has got to be Triple H in disguise. He's always posting these diatribes making excuses for his lack of charisma and terrible drawing power. People don't so much complain Triple H buried others. It's that he pushed himself over others more deserving and watchable for his own sake. Not for business. The 'Triple H wins 10 world titles ruthless aggression era' was the one that turned me off wrestling full time. He uses his relationship to maneuver. No matter how many excuses are made by the WWE PR guys posing as posters here to repair Hunters image, the real fans know what's what. Once a snake, always a snake. End of story with that guy..

 

[Aquaman6686]

Jack Hammer has got to be Triple H in disguise. He's always posting these diatribes making excuses for his lack of charisma and terrible drawing power. People don't so much complain Triple H buried others. It's that he pushed himself over others more deserving and watchable for his own sake. Not for business. The 'Triple H wins 10 world titles ruthless aggression era' was the one that turned me off wrestling full time. He uses his relationship to maneuver. No matter how many excuses are made by the WWE PR guys posing as posters here to repair Hunters image, the real fans know what's what. Once a snake, always a snake. End of story with that guy..

I've really got to disagree. I'd easily put Triple H in the Top 10 of all time. Triple H was the guy that got me back into watching WWE after I'd favored WCW for several years, having been turned off from WWE by DX (second-rate nWo wannabes), Mankind (a midcarder who never should have been anywhere NEAR the WWE Championship), and factions forming and breaking up constantly (a crime which WCW already started to become very guilty of around the time I switched back to WWE). Triple H's evolution into a main event talent is what convinced me to give WWE another chance. He was the definition of a MUST-SEE talent. 2002-2006 were my favorite years in wrestling, largely because of Triple H.

 

[Headman]

Wrestlers don't change their stripes because they're generous or feel the need to put people over it's because they're told to. I think people have started complaining is because it the same guys over and over and over or someone that has been gone for years, as in Batista's case or The Rock, is essentially handed the belt their first show back when other guys should be elevated. If Hogan could function the slightest he would be given a title run by Vince, that's a given. All Punk wanted was his goal of main eventing WM, how hard was it for Vince to give that to him.

Arguing over UT vs Sting or Sting vs HHH is people not living in today but ten to fifteen years ago. All three are old but Sting is 55, Taker is 48 going on 68 by his looks and HHH is in great shape for having a 20 year career. HHH vs Sting would be the better more compelling match today but it's wrestling, I don't get worked up over stupid shit like that but other people are consumed by it for some reason.

All I wanted was wrestling to have a resemblance of believability but when celebrities are winning belts and cartoon characters are beating people then you have insulted my intelligence but it seems a lot of people are sheep and eat what they are fed.

Doesn't calling people "Sheep" sort of insult their intelligence which is what you claim the WWE is doing to you? You want things to be believable? Ok, the celebrity you're so angry about winning a belt also happens to be one of the most decorated WWE superstars of all time. It's not like he's an old man either. The Rock beating Punk was most definitely believable. As for cartoon characters beating people, are you talking about that Scooby Doo movie? Because I don't remember any actual cartoon characters coming to life and beating anyone. Or are you talking about John Cena? A legit mega star with more match of the year candidates than anyone on the active roster. You're trying to justify these grudges but you end up insulting all of our intelligence with these ridiculous reasons when all you need to say is "I only cheer for the guys who the internet tells me to cheer for.". That would be believable.

 

[BestWrestlingOpinions]

I remember chuckling when I said I would prefer 'Triple H vs Sting' over 'Undertaker Vs Sting' and someone shot back that Triple H would just bury Sting. Admittedly there was a time when this probably would be true...like maybe 10 years ago. But when you look as his in-ring work as of 2014, he spent the entire year putting over Bryan and the Shield. Even before the Bryan backlash occurred, the original plan was for CM Punk to defeat Triple H at wrestlemania. So it's not like Triple H is that same guy.

When Rollins brought up Batista, audiences audibly booed. So they're still sore over the Rumble, even though it had almost been a year since then. There are so many comments about Cena refusing to job, even though he lost quite a bit in 2014. Even Hogan occasionally still gets bitched about.

I get being annoyed and resentful, but why do these grudges maintain so much heat after so long? Especially if the wrestler seems to have gone out of their way to change peoples perceptions about them?

Batista's negative reaction was from the live crowd, so, since he was a heel when he left, it's understandable and it is what should happen. Of course, I still don't understand why he is getting so much heat on the internet, since he himself admitted that he shouldn't have won the Rumble and all. Stupid from the internet fans to legit bash Batista as he legitimately cares about the business.


Now, as far as Cena and HHH go, the fans have some merit. HHH buried Punk back in 2011, and even though in 2014 he did put over Bryan and the Shield, it still seems that it is all about him. He didn't let Orton shine by himself as the WWE(WHC) champ, he isn't letting Rollins show his dominance. Everything just revolves around him. The people who say that he would bury Sting are idiots. HHH would lay down for Sting, it is obvious. But just the fact that everything still seems to revolve around him, even though it's just to put others over, is irritating to some. Instead of HHH, Rollins could take HHH's air time. They could have HHH make some decisions, but jeebus, he shouldn't be in the spotlight so much.

Cena, eh, he is still the same SuperCena he always was, maybe even more now. Apart from Punk and Bryan (maybe, since they were really over even before beating Cena but oh well), Cena only lost clean to the Rock and Lesnar, who didn't need it. He buried Wyatt, Rollins can't catch a decisive victory over Cena, Dean "defeated" Cena, yet Cena got the #1 conteder's HIAC match against Orton. Everything is about Cena. Cena vs Authority at SS, Cena vs Lesnar x1000 for the title, and it seems Cena's path of burying will continue through Rusev. I don't think they is any question why Cena is getting booed.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Wrestling is unique as a "fanboy" style product because it has a live element to it. Fans can show up to an arena and directly influence the presentation of the event... if they boo someone they're not supposed to, WWE will try and compensate with canned cheers...but movies, Marvel, TV shows, Star Wars and all the other stuff don't have that live component, you can't just turn up to JJ Abrams Star Trek set and tell him you "Spock would NEVER kiss Uhura and you shouldn't be making Sulu the focal point of the fight..." they get to watch the finished product, then bitch, tear it apart or fap over it.

When wrestling fans "hold grudges" it's usually because their own personal story wasn't catered to. They figure through forums such as these, the "smark" banter thats out there that "their guy" is better and should be getting the spot... when they don't get that, whatever they do get or rather whoever is forever gonna draw ire...

Look at the hate Jar Jar Binks got after Star Wars Ep 1... They had to make him the GUY WHO NOMINATED THE EMPEROR to make those guys happy... now imagine Roman Reigns as Jar Jar Binks... supposed to be the new "star", designed to make a tonne of money and get the kids involved... if you wanted more of Obi Wan and Qui Gon kicking ass or Darth Maul killing people and got Jar Jar... you're pissed... like wise if you want Bryan, Punk or Ambrose and you're getting Batista or Reigns in spite of that... you're gonna hate it long after that event is done.

I've been a long term believer that the WWE as we know it won't last and that once the technology allows, which is not THAT far off... WWE could even become a subscription type model were you control it to an extent with live events etc as the "supplement". Think the WWE Universe mode of the games to the ultimate degree... you're picking matches and can see them unfold in near video quality... and your "shows" pitted against others (and the main show itself) that's the only way most fans would be happy. Getting to book the whole product themselves and then you'd see if you or Vince/Trips are right. 20 years from now that is what will be happening.