Why did Wrestlemania 19 have pathetic buy rates?

[rge2010]

Wrestlemania 19 is the stand out Mania for the lowest buy rate for the last 16 years. WWE was strong at this point, off the back of a successful Attitude Era and some strong Manias featuring HBK/Tyson/Austin, Rock/Austin, Rock/Hogan etc.

So why did a Mania 19 card that had Jericho vs HBK, Rock vs Austin III, Hogan vs Vince and Angle vs Lesnar (who was red hot) fail so badly?

Is it because emerging star John Cena wasnt on the main card and was forced to sing alone?

 

[harrythem]

I'd lay the major portion of the blame squarely on Hogan vs Vince. The fact that the most hyped match for that WM was two old guys having a brawl was just wrong...as a special attraction as well as the other matches it would've been a great addition, not as the main draw of the show (and the dvd cover showing Hogan vs Vince shows it really was the main event of that Mania)...

It's mentioned in Power Slam magazine this month and they say that Austin vs Rock was also a nostalgia match as well...it'd been done twice at WM already and it didn't have the same appeal (kinda like Rock vs Cena 2)...

What would I have done to improve the WM 19 buyrate? I have no idea, which is why I'm not working as a booker...but I do know that what they did wasn't appealing. If you look at WM19 they lost, in the space of a month, Austin, Rock, Angle (got really injured) and Triple H wasn't the guy he had been before then...it's not too hard to see why the whole year tanked for WWE with their buys (as compared to previous years)

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Hogan vs. McMahon was the main focal point. Why would you promote a match between two guys, one of which was a non-worker, with a combined age of over 100 as the biggest match on the biggest card of the year?

Also, why would Austin/Rock draw when they'd previously wrestled dozens of times, twice before at Mania and Austin has won the two Mania encounters. They had nothing to wrestle for.

And I doubt the drawing power of Angle & Lesnar. Not Lesnar now, but definately during his first WWE run.

 

[MPWFchairman]

After 2002 alot of fans just stopped watching wrestling in general. The invasion failed (i actually enjoyed it) and the WCW roster was buried the majority of the time. Hence the WCW fans didn't watch and the attitude era cooled off and alot people stopped watching after the multiple title reigns in the beginning of 2002. It had nothing to do with Hogan vs Vince. That match was not overhyped it had a good build and so did Rock Austin and Angle/Lesnar had been brewing as well as HBK and Jericho had been building a lot longer than that.

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

After 2002 alot of fans just stopped watching wrestling in general. The invasion failed (i actually enjoyed it) and the WCW roster was buried the majority of the time. Hence the WCW fans didn't watch and the attitude era cooled off and alot people stopped watching after the multiple title reigns in the beginning of 2002. It had nothing to do with Hogan vs Vince. That match was not overhyped it had a good build and so did Rock Austin and Angle/Lesnar had been brewing as well as HBK and Jericho had been building a lot longer than that.

Did a little research and 02 saw the greatest number of guys to hold the WWE Title at 8 (Jericho, HHH, Hogan, Taker, Rock, Brock, Show and Angle). Brock held the title the longest at 84 days.

 

[M3420]

One would probably have to look at the economic circumstances of the time...WM19 was probably one of the most stacked cards of all time, and WM's 17-19 frequently show up near the top of the all time rankings.

And, while Hogan and Vince were old, this was already a decade ago, and frankly they both were in decent enough shape to put on a street fight, and I thought the build to that was pretty compelling with them airing the dirty laundry of the steroid trial days.

One of the things that took away from it a little was the fact that the Taker match was pretty much a stale foregone conclusion type of match considering that he had fought Flair and HHH the prior two years

Back to my original argument, I just don't think people had a whole ton of extra money lying around that they could spend on buying the ppv.

And where in the world was Cena? did he show up in a dark match? I understand this was well before his run as the top guy began, but I know he debuted in the summer of '02...

And I shouldn't even bring this up but this show was only a few months removed from the Katie Vick incident, and parents were probablyl still a little ticked off

 

[THTRobtaylor]

It was very much a case of the fans being pissed off with Vince for the failed Invasion.

It should have been the ultimate Wrestlemania, with WCW talents finally squaring off in a titanic battle for supremacy after a year of seperate running. But Vince had already killed WCW and ECW and created the ridiculous Brand Extension. He had 2 brands... WCW could functionally have run had he given Smackdown's slot over to them. WM18 may have seen one "dream match or title unification" but 19... that was when WCW arrived en masse in a position to make Mania 19 the truly biggest event.

What we got was a very lacklustre card with ill thought out stories and no real "buzz". Triple H was running roughshod and you knew Booker had no chance of winning the belt from him due to his ridiculous build. If he's gonna win a battle royal to get the shot - give him the Rumble... and Booker T had lost so much momentum from the poor Invasion angles that it was a nothing match.

Brock v Angle wasn't much better in that Brock was being rammed down people's throats as "the next big thing" but no seeming thought was being put into making it interesting. While on paper his match with Angle was interesting, they weren't using Brock's collegiate background as a counterpoint to Angle's Olypmic...it was a monster vs a wrestler...

Hogan v Vince was not the match they needed either - If they'd done the Invasion right - this was Vince v Shane the owners and father and son finally facing off for all the Marbles make it a screwjob if you must but the hangover of that poor decision not to run WCW seperate again killed any chance for Hogan to be relevant.

People were burned... they'd been sold a bill of goods over the previous 18 months and it showed by the dwindling returns. Where was Cena? He wasn't even on Vince's radar of becoming what he did, that was serendipity. After this Mania they realized the error of killing off so much talent from WCW and luckily for them they had guys like Batista, Orton to build into the story and the trump card of Goldberg they could play...and did the next night. but they botched that one too or rather Bill did by getting his ass handed to him by Jericho.

This was the nadir time some would say, the time where Vince's arrogance hurt the business most. He HAD to destroy WCW as quickly as possible rather than use the long term "best for business" approach of running two companies. The resources were there, the risk was minimal - hell Vince could have made a WCW show a condition of future TV deals but it stroked his ego to kill it and it was more luck than judgement that it didn't kill the company. Putting himself against Hogan was the pinnacle of that. Vince truly believed people wanted to see him wrestle, he was finally Main eventing his own show and was living his dream... did we really want to see that over what we could have had? Not in a million years... and that's why people didn't buy Mania 19!

 

[#heel420]

Great Wrestlemania, 19 was the last one I bought on ppv. I feel the problem lied within the Triple H/Booker T World Heavyweight Championship match. Even as a kid(and believe me I was a total mark) I was very uninterested in this match. And that was the main Raw feud besides Rock/Austin going into WM. HHH was borderline racist for the majority of it, which I think turned a lot of people off.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

I think the entire product was just in a poor shape and a state of confusion at that point. The brand extension, it's identity crisis (Ruthless Aggression didn't last long, nWo being brought back re branded, then disbanded in a matter of 5 months), Austin and Rock gone for most of the year, Championship Belts changing hands on a monthly basis, and some really bad angles (HLA, Katie Vick). I would guess a lot of people were just turned off with the product at that point.

It probably affected WMXIX's buy rates as well.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

I remember a distinct lack of suspense about the outcome of the card. Lesnar was primed to beat Angle, Booker T stood no chance against Triple H (who had put people to sleep a month or so earlier against Scott Steiner), and few gave a real crap about Vince Vs. Hogan except history buffs who still remembered the steroid trial.

Then Rock Vs. Austin. Speaking only for myself, this was the one that cinched the lameness of the event. There was no purpose to the match except to give Rock his win over Austin; no different from Cena having a rematch with Rock at WrestleMania this year to make up for his loss. There was zero doubt about who would go over. Furthermore, both Austin and Rock had been gone from the WWF for a few months, and were only returning for WrestleMania 19. This was the first inkling that many of us had that Rock and Austin's time was at its end, and we were just going to get another match between two guys we'd seen go round and round before.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Hogan vs. McMahon was the main focal point. Why would you promote a match between two guys, one of which was a non-worker, with a combined age of over 100 as the biggest match on the biggest card of the year?

Also, why would Austin/Rock draw when they'd previously wrestled dozens of times, twice before at Mania and Austin has won the two Mania encounters. They had nothing to wrestle for.

And I doubt the drawing power of Angle & Lesnar. Not Lesnar now, but definately during his first WWE run.

I actually really liked WM19, and liked Hogan-McMahon a lot more than I thought. Mainly because it was a Streetfight, which made it a better match.

As for Austin-Rock, I have always thought it should have been career vs career match. Everyone would tip Austin, as it was known the ROck would leave to make movies. However, it would be a big shock when Austin actually lost, as Austin's career ending neck injury was not common knowledge. IT was actually SCSA's last match, and it would be the WTF moment for fans watching, and they would be angry, until they find out on the grapevine that Austin had a career-ending neck injury, and this was a way to write him out.

Doing this would have provided a stip which would have got interest, and knowing it is someone's last match would have boosted buy-rates, as SCSA and Rock were the "Big Two" and people would buy, knowing it is the last time they will see one of them in the ring. Also, Austin could cut a farewell speech and thank the fans afterwards.

 

[Jerichoholic8894]

The build was off. As said by everyone, McMahon vs Hogan shouldn't have been the focal point, it should have been Lesnar-Angle. Also, the build for the World Title was based off of Booker T's real life criminal past, not saying it should have never been brought up, but I remember Jerry Lawler bringing it up every other sentence during commentary for the entire feud which got annoying.

Another thing is the Undertaker should have had a much different feud, in my opinion with Chris Benoit. This match was booked as Undertaker and Nathan Jones vs Big Show and A-Train but ended up a handicap match. Very uninteresting feud for a Wrestlemania legend.

 

[dudedudedude]

The 'official reason' for the low butyrate was attributed to the start of the war in Iraq. WWE claimed that news coverage, which to be fair was at a record high ratings wise, took interest off the event.

However also pwtorch said Vince felt the event wasn't properly promoted, which is why from that year onwards hype for the next year essentially started during the current wrestlemania.

 

[lowandmighty]

I'd say it was just down to chance, sometimes you attract a lot of attention and sometimes you don't.

It's wrong to say it was because of the Vince/Hogan match because when they did summerslam with Hogan/Michaels the buy rate was huge.

You can't say it was because of Rock/Austin either because those guys were over at that time, way over and I for one wanted to see the rock actually win one against Austin and I'm sure everyone else thought the same.

The one thing that sticks out to me is probably that Booker T wasn't exactly the shit to wwe fans.

I don't think thats why though. To me it was just one of those things. Most of the people who buy ppv's were doing something else that year.

It's not the only example of a big event that flopped. Sometimes it's just the way she goes.

 

[bioshock]

Well I liked Wrestlemania 19, I thought the Hogan/Vince build up was great, I wasn't a fan of Rock/Austin as it was done before, thinking back on it considering Austin was a heel the better part of 2001, I bet the original plan was Rock being the face, and Austin being the heel to reverse roles from the past.

But besides the card, I agree the Invasion had to be the biggest blame and the brands. Raw was horrible leading up to WM19, the roster was thin and Triple H was burying everyone on the Raw roster along with Booker T.

Wm19 should of been what Survivor Series 2001 was, with the big WWF vs WCW & ECW, and all the matches they had. And even something like the Summerslam 2001 card that was full of WWF vs WCW/ECW matches. But again the whole invasion storyline was done so poorly it had to turn fans away.

Don't forget though WCW was horrible from 99-01 and WCW was pretty bad its self 2000-01 so neither brand really had a big strong fan base left. I bet WWE in 2001-2002 had a steady decline in ratings.

 

[rge2010]

For those asking - John Cena extended his arm out to Jayzee for a 'rap battle' at Mania 19 but Jayzee never showed. Cena instead did a rap battle with a cardboard cut out.

 

[Goldie]

If WM19 would have been billed as Austins last match it could have spiked up the buyrate... though maybe Steve wasn't 100% sure of it at the time... despite knowing that he'd been wrestling on borrowed time since Owens botched piledriver broke his neck in 1997.

Much has already been said.... Austin/Rock had been done twice before, and there was no fued to set it up this time.
Booker wasn't taken as a serious threat to Trippers world tile.. the outcome was obvious.
Brock was still a rookie... and hadn't built up the fanfare of a Rock/Austin/Hogan .... (though these 3 were on the card... Brock was wrestling for the world title).... and again Brock was a heavy favourite as Kurt needed neck surgery.

Hogan vs McMahon was a better match than expected.... but again it was obvious that Hogan would win (Vince always loses these type of matches).

Wrestling fans are more likely to part with their cash to see a 50:50 match .... if they can knowingly assume the outcome beforehand.... why shell out the cash?

The Invasion angle may have contributed.... but the WM18 buyrate was still decent.... maybe the notorious Katie Vick storyline a few months prior turned some of the more casual fans away from the product?

 

[George Steele's Barber]

There are a lot of interesting opinions here and I don't doubt most of them. For me personally I was out on WM19 for the simple fact that I was out on WWE after WM18 and the invasion angle. I probably would have called myself a casual fan by the time 19 rolled around. I watched 18 with a group of about 10 guys and no one left wanting more. Everyone loved what was happening during Hogan and Rock but the rest felt like a complete burnout of a show.

People buy and watch these shows because they expect to see something worth watching. For the casual fan, if WM18 was not worth it, then why spend time and money on WM19?

 

[Wald]

It was just too obvious who was going to win each of the star attractions.

Austin had beaten Rock twice already so was obviously putting Rock over. Hogan was beating Vince. Lesner was beating Angle.

The only shock was Booker not beating Triple H and that was only a shock because the angle had been built on racist claims by Triple H that white people were better than black people and he'd prove it by showing Booker didn't belong at the top table.

 

[Blade]

Indeed, the card kind of speaks for itself. Austin and the Rock would've drawn if they'd had new opponents, but why should we watch them wrestle for the third time at Wrestlemania, especially when the outcome is painfully predictable?

As for Hogan and McMahon, it was not only predictable, but both men are really old, and one of them isn't even a full-time wrestler. Hogan vs. McMahon would've drawn had it happened in 1998 when Vince was at the height of his heel persona and Hogan was still big. But not in 2003.

Then there's the rest of the card. Whether or not Shawn Michaels is a draw tends to depend on who he's working with. Again Flair with his career on the line or Undertaker with the streak on the line? That's money. But has Jericho really ever drawn apart from a small rise in ratings the week of and following his many, many returns?

Lesnar and Angle weren't draws then. Lesnar is a big draw now, but at the time he had only been around for a year. Being hot doesn't mean you're going to draw, as Daniel Bryan has shown us.

And the World Title match was Triple H vs. Booker T. The wrestler people were most sick of at the time against an old WCW guy who hadn't done anything of note since coming to WWE. Yep.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

I actually went to No Way Out 2003 leading into this show. It had Hogan/Rock 2 and Steiner/HHH. Honestly, it was a terrible PPV. I was becoming less and less interested in wrestling in general during this time, and I wasn't alone. A lot of fans were just getting bored with the product. It was becoming stale and formulaic. The brand extension was new and I don't think a lot of people embraced it. Hogan was taking up way too much of a spot in the program. It was good nostalgia post-WM18, but they milked it for too long. I also didn't care at all about Rock/Austin 3... someone already mentioned that it was also a nostalgia match at that point. Didn't care about HHH/Booker or Vince/Hogan. The only interesting thing that was happening during this time, in my opinion, was Brock Lesnar. He was new and unique. I wasn't a huge fan of the "ruthless aggression" era. In comparison, it was more predictable than the attitude era and invasion. I tuned out completely after WM21.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

The WCW/ECW juxtaposition; the hottest star through out that invasion was RVD, then Rhyno. RVD had gotten screwed by Flair and H like 5 months prior at Unforgiven. Rather than building a revenge program, he was on the pre-show with Kane.

Hogan could've given some rub to an up and comer or we could've had another one of our dream matches. I don't think Austin would've wanted to lose to Hogan though. But ye there are a lot of reasons why it failed. Austin/Rock, well I had no idea Austin was gonna lose so I was surprised. It was a fun match but again, a match that had no proper build and was just thrown together because of who they were. For the life of me, I dunno why Goldberg didn't debut earlier like around Rumble. For fuck's sake I know WWE experiences a slide period post Mania but you could've had one of the biggest attractions from the 90s working the biggest show. How wouldn't have THAT helped.

 

[Wald]

You probably could have tweaked the event to get more interest too but if we're honest we know that the WWE had peaked two years previously and was on a slide at that stage so the number was always going to drop from WM18.

Lesner vs Angle was the right match to book and showcase in the main event. The triple threat tag match was fine too but matches to rebook could be the Rock vs Austin and the Hogan vs Vince matches. Two nostalgia matches is one too many so either book Hogan vs Austin finally (Austin may have been more open to it for 19 than 18) and go with the Rock taking on the Undertaker or work it so that it's Austin & Hogan vs Rock & Vince. Could have easily been done given that Rock & Vince teamed up to beat Hogan at No Way Out before this card too.

RVD should have been in Booker's place for the title match against Triple H too