Why did face Hogan wrestle like such a prick?

[SilverBullet1929]

I've always noticed this and today I looked back at Survivor Series '89 and it jumped out at me before the bell even rang for his match but has anyone else ever noticed that Hulk Hogan in the '80s and early '90s completely wrestled like a total prick?

Here's a few examples, if anyone wants to add to this please do. If not, just discuss if anyone else has ever noticed this and has ever wondered why this is such? I'm shocked he did this over and over again for years and years and nobody ever thought he shouldn't do this? Were fans so blind to just let this slide? It seemed like Jesse Ventura was all over it but Gorilla Monsoon and others didn't seem to care!

Anyways at SSeries 89, when his team is faced off with DiBiase's team at the start of the match, Hogan just spits directly at the opponents! Unprovoked, he's just spitting like a camel! That's disgusting as is but isn't Hogan the superstar good guy??? A few minutes into the match he realizes he's gonna have a hard time slamming Zeus, so he just rakes his eyes then hits the slam. I understand a babyface doing what he has to do at times but it just seemed like Hogan came off as an a$$hole because Zeus didn't do anything to deserve that.

WrestleMania IV ends with Hogan nailing DiBiase in the back with a chair... he couldn't just clothesline him or something?

I dunno, I've seen it way too much to ignore it. I'm not looking through other matches now but I've seen him scratching, spitting, raking eyes, pulling tights, a whole bunch of garbage heel tactics that he always got away with.

 

[Headman]

It rubbed me the wrong way when Hogan hit Dibiase with a chair at WM IV. That didn't seem like a move the top baby face would make. He's supposed to have the moral high ground over guys like Dibiase but it just made Savage look weak and Hogan looked like a bitter cheater. And this is coming from a Hogan fan.

Fast forward to the 1992 Royal Rumble when Hogan eliminated Sid after he himself had been eliminated and got booed for it. Popular legend is that Hogan was furious at the WWF for setting him up to get booed. He's not an idiot, how would he not know this sort of thing would backfire? Who came up with these spots and why did Hogan go along with them?

 

[sdelfin]

I enjoyed the premise of your post, silverbullet. I think the quick version of it was that part of Hulk's popularity as hero to the masses was how he used heel tactics against the heels. He did some rather unsavory things, some of which you mentioned. He also was a bully to defenseless, though pesky, managers including a woman(Sherri). I guess people liked seeing someone bully the bullies. I think, if you look at programming leading to Survivor Series, you could probably find some justification for some of the things. The upside is that Jesse Ventura's constant criticism of Hogan was quite justified, and it's fun to go back and look at things in hindsight. Since you mentioned Survivor Series 89, I thought you were going to criticize the blatant favoritism for Hogan in the match. The referee eliminated the majority of Dibiase's team for Hogan.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

Well the obvious answer is that he is a prick. But he wrestled that way because he could get away with it. Who was going to stand up to Hogan? Hogan was so big he could just have you bumped back to mid card whenever he wanted. Guys wanted the big payday that came with wrestling Hogan so they had to eat his shit.

 

[lil bitch Kid]

UMMM, the obvious answer is that wrestling is a work.

The spit, I agree, jagoff move. The chair at Mania 4, is because that is what he was told to do. The rake of the eyes for the slam is because that is what was decided.

Part of all this was because of Ventura on commentary. He shot from the hip and called what he saw, to have the hero commentator, Vince or Gorilla, or Schivone, once, defend everything the hero did.

 

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

OSW Reviews made the awesome point on one of their videos.

Hogan was a face, but he wasn't booked like one.

He acted like a twat for most of his WWF run, and somehow fans were expected to cheer this man.

He threw his friends out of the Rumble (more than once - Savage and Warrior), and when they eliminated him, he threw a hissy fit and screwed them over (Sid Justice).

When he lost the title to Taker, he complained to Jack Tunney and demanded a rematch, a total heel bitch move.

He stole the thunder from Savage and ruined WMIX with his antics. I mean christ, he called Bret Hart a hulkamaniac and treated him like a kid before taking his title.

It's no wonder people had started to boo him towards the tail end of his career, as they were sick of his behaviour and sick of him.

 

[aftershock14520]

why don't you just admit that you just hate hogan and get it over with...

Out of all of the years Hogan wrestled as a face in WWF, you only pointed out a couple of things and they are not even that big of a deal.

 

[aftershock14520]

and you have a Bret Hard icon...

You really have the nerve to create a list on Hogan. Bret Hart has spit, cussed, and pulled tantrums.

 

[RicSpade]

I think you guys are missing the big picture here with Hogan and that was and Ventura use to touch on this daily, was that "Its not ok for them to do it, but when your hero does it, its fair?"

Hogan while being the top face, he did these things alot if you watch the Hogan DVD especially you will notice it, he does rake eyes or the back, he spits, he punches closed fist, but it was apart of the entertainment factor of his character like it or don't like it. If you think about the spit with Dibiase he had a heated feud with Zeus atm, so yeah of course he is going to spit. There was "animosity" still from Dibiase buying out Andre. I mean Hogan did whatever he had to do like it or don't like it to get a reaction from a crowd, and we decided to use the kiss method of keep it simple stupid, if its not broke don't fix it. It worked in the beginning and it continued to work until he went to WCW.

 

[Soulblazed]

So far people have mentioned Ventura always calling Hogan on his bullshit in the ring, yet no one seems to remember Heenan also calling Hogan on bullshit as well, just as often as Ventura did..Also, in Hogan's WWF Title rematch against Undertaker at This Tuesday In Texas, he beat Taker by doing a truly heelish move-grabbing the urn from Paul Bearer, throwing the urn dust in Taker's face and getting the quick roll-up pin to win the WWF Title back from Taker. As far as heel tactics go, Hogan also was famous for biting people.

Now, obviously his heel tactics always drew reactions from the crowd, hence understandably he stuck to it. Though one thing I always wanted to see, even though it would've been an atrocious match, Hogan vs Giant Gonzalez, just to see if Hogan could bodyslam the 7'7 Argentinian giant whose sluggishness in the ring would've made The Great Khali's lumbering, sauntering pace look athletic and limber.

 

[Tastycles]

Because nobody likes a clean cut good guy. The idea that the fans started liking people with a bit of an edge in the 90s is a total fallacy. Nobody likes the clean cut guy - which is why Hogan, Savage, Warrior etc. who all had an edge were infinitely more popular than guys like Bob Backlund who came before them. Once characters came into wrestling properly in the 70s, the clean cut total babyface had no chance. Rocky Maivia may not have been booed so relentlessly in the 80s, but he wouldn't have been popular.

Look at someone like Tito Santana - totally a face, totally liked, but never really over, because if a face is just an 'all round good guy' then he is someone who is going to get screwed over time and again. Hogan's approach meant that he could stand up for himself and not take any shit.

Do you really think they'd have had Jesse Ventura repeatedly pointing out the problems with Hogan's ethics if they didn't want the audience to notice them?

 

[Dirk]

I think you guys are missing the big picture here
with Hogan and that was and Ventura use to
touch on this daily, was that "Its not ok for them
to do it, but when your hero does it, its fair?"

This ^^^

Hogan isn't alone, either. All the top faces pull dick moves - all the time. Cena pouring out fake shit out on Ziggler and AJ? HBK superkicking the living daylights out of some poor backstage workers in DX? Even as a face, Flair cheats, blatantly. Hell, Austin's whole damn career!

The problem with Hogan (and this applies to Cena as well) is that he played a clean-cut character. Unlike the grittier Hart and Austin, the magnificent bastard Flair or the manchildren DX, Hogan was meant to be unequivocally good. Heel tactics and bullying don't suit the apple-pie hero that overcomes the odds. That's why Hollywood Hogan was so great, it was something fresh.

So basically, they all did it, but Hogan stood out, because of his character.

 

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

Because nobody likes a clean cut good guy. The idea that the fans started liking people with a bit of an edge in the 90s is a total fallacy. Nobody likes the clean cut guy - which is why Hogan, Savage, Warrior etc. who all had an edge were infinitely more popular than guys like Bob Backlund who came before them. Once characters came into wrestling properly in the 70s, the clean cut total babyface had no chance. Rocky Maivia may not have been booed so relentlessly in the 80s, but he wouldn't have been popular.

Look at someone like Tito Santana - totally a face, totally liked, but never really over, because if a face is just an 'all round good guy' then he is someone who is going to get screwed over time and again. Hogan's approach meant that he could stand up for himself and not take any shit.

Do you really think they'd have had Jesse Ventura repeatedly pointing out the problems with Hogan's ethics if they didn't want the audience to notice them?

They may have wanted an edgy guy, but this surely backfired on them. Mainly because everything Ventura said generally made perfect sense.

As a result, you have the WWF muting and editting crowd reactions because people were booing Hogan relentlessly. Sid Justice was getting bigger pops than Hogan on the live feed, but on every DVD and VHS, it's dead silence for Sid and piped in cheers for Hogan. This obviously wasnt the desired result and thus, was poor booking.

The late 80's, early 90's audience were sick of Hogans shenanigans and it showed.

Then again, they may have just been booing the fact he was a prick BEHIND the scenes and hogged the title and the spotlight, but I'm not aware of how smart fans were back then.

 

[ComeOnVince]

I was watching SummerSlam '91 the other day and you see the SAME type of stuff in the handicap tag match, which ended with crazy Warrior running down the aisle to the back and Hogan randomly producing and throwing mystery powder in sarge's face to win.

Hogan's constant whining to the refs and his use of heel tactics was something that wore on me - as a kid - in the early 90s. His run as Hollywood in WCW was tailor-made for him, because as a face - from start to finish - Hogan has always been a little heel b!tch.

 

[GameOver]

By that point Hogan had beaten pretty much everyone and he needed to freshen things up, plus those opponents were completely pissing off the Hulkster character and had been a thorn in his side for years. imo Hogan was not a kiddy fiddler character like Super Cena, Hogan appealed to everyone young and old which means every now and then he would get angry and lose the plot a bit or resort to heelish tactics, something Super Cena did not for the most part tho he did use underhanded tactics too like tying Batista's feet around the ring post so he couldn't possibly get up, is that not heelish? that's just one example.

When he was facing The Undertaker, did we forget what happened the match b4? Ric Flair got involved and prior to that he was still struggling, and then we had Earthquake that crushed his spirit. by that time Hogan was questioning his superiority started at the Royal Rumble, it was his final year "possibly" and maybe they wanted him to stay on the winning end but just barely, which is how Hollywood Hogan was aswell.

Anyway he was also appealing to the fans who hated Dibiase for instance, why shouldn't a face drop to the heels level every now and then, Eye for an Eye.

 

[legendkiller1979]

The answer is simple really. For one, Hogan could do no wrong in the 80's. And two, fans wanted to see the heels get their heads kicked in by Hogan. He was generally fighting someone who had done him wrong and had it coming.

Wrestlemania IV was brought up. People bring up that it was a rotten thing to do to hit Dibiase with a chair. I guess we are forgetting that Dibiase hit Hogan with a chair and essentially eliminated from the tournament.

I think if it would have rubbed fans the wrong way, he would have stopped. it didn't so he didn't have to.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

Well the obvious answer is that he is a prick. But he wrestled that way because he could get away with it. Who was going to stand up to Hogan? Hogan was so big he could just have you bumped back to mid card whenever he wanted. Guys wanted the big payday that came with wrestling Hogan so they had to eat his shit.

First of all, this thread is dedicated to what was going on in the kayfabe sense of things. Not backstage speculation that none of us are really privy to. So unless you can separate those two things, you really have no business posting on threads like this and actually expect people to take your opinions seriously. The armchair expert nature of your statement is very unbecoming.

As far as Hulk Hogan's in character antics, the times were changing, the Bob Backlund and Bruno Sammartino wholesome value schtick was changing. Now, don't get me wrong Hogan was nowhere near the shades of grey that Steve Austin became in the Attitude Era, but he did definitely return the favor with a lot of the heels. A lot of these examples include the chair shot to DiBiase, remember this guy paid a referee off to screw Hogan over in the first place, The Undertaker match, well as we all remember Taker won the title unfairly in the first place, he needed Flair to get that steel chair timed for that Tombstone. Hogan demanding a rematch is quite justifiable in a storyline context. Macho Man and Warrior were fair game, after all, it is the Royal Rumble..."Friend vs Friend, Foe vs Foe", don't any of you people remember that essential tagline to the event? I mean, seriously. The whole thing with Sid, yeah that was a ******** move in the storyline, and Hogan got his comeuppance by Sid walking out on him and then losing out on his title shot to Ric Flair.

Ventura and Heenan's commentary was rich though and very entertaining, they were playing the true heels that they were meant to though. Again, this thread while interesting is leading a plethora of delusional posters like SinCityBlitz to start confusing fantasy and reality. The people who are in that category like he is really needed to get their heads out of their collective asses.

 

[Matisyahu]

I noticed as a kid whenever he faced a bigger opponent such as Earthquake he would almost always wind up being locked in a Bear Hug and his only recourse would be to grab the ref by the shirt and drag him in the mix causing the hold to be broken.

Also when he came out and beat Yokozuna in about 10 seconds after Bret Hart got screwed out of the WWF title after all that buildup, at whatever Wrestlemania that was, THATS when I was done with Hulk Hogan. I remember asking my dad "What was that!? So is Hulk a bad guy now....thats total crap!"

I understand having to fight dirty here and there but when he pulled that BS, that was it for me.

Hollywood on the other hand, pure genius!

 

[salopstick]

Wrestling is fake meant to be real fighting.

Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire, even baby faces can lose their cool.

Nothing new here

 

[Soulblazed]

Because nobody likes a clean cut good guy. The idea that the fans started liking people with a bit of an edge in the 90s is a total fallacy. Nobody likes the clean cut guy - which is why Hogan, Savage, Warrior etc. who all had an edge were infinitely more popular than guys like Bob Backlund who came before them. Once characters came into wrestling properly in the 70s, the clean cut total babyface had no chance. Rocky Maivia may not have been booed so relentlessly in the 80s, but he wouldn't have been popular.

Look at someone like Tito Santana - totally a face, totally liked, but never really over, because if a face is just an 'all round good guy' then he is someone who is going to get screwed over time and again. Hogan's approach meant that he could stand up for himself and not take any shit.

Do you really think they'd have had Jesse Ventura repeatedly pointing out the problems with Hogan's ethics if they didn't want the audience to notice them?

The only true clean cut babyfaces in North America that come to my mind besides Tito Santana are Bruno Sammartino, Ricky Steamboat and Sting when he still had blonde hair in the 80s/mid 90s. Though besides that you have a good point..Most faces do need an edge to them in order to balance out their characters.

 

[Wald]

Most have got it right in here anyway so I'll just add that I never liked Hogan as a kid for all of these reasons.

People say others had an edge but Hogan was just a downright heel. He used to rake people's eyes, cheat, whine, beat up women and throw hissy fits when he lost. As a kid I thought he was a heel and not a cool heel like Flair was, I just thought he was a whiner.

The night that seals the deal on that is definitely Royal Rumble 1992. Hogan gets eliminated fair and square by Sid and so he pisses his pants in anger and helps Flair eliminate Sid. That's a full on heel turn right but because it was Hogan we were just meant to accept it.

No wonder Hogan vs Sid tanked, his 5th title was a joke and he was afraid to face Bret Hart for the title out of fear of being booed out of the arena.

 

[SilverBullet1929]

Some of you are just kinda blowing off Hogan's actions as something every face does at times. Or youre comparing him to guys like Cena. I think some of you are missing the point. Hogan was supposed to be the nicest of the nice, the ultimate good guy, never do wrong, stand up for justice, freedom, the American way... yada yada. He was, in a kayfabe sense, built up to almost an angel-like stature. I know this is wrestling and its fake and Hogan isn't really an angel and so on. But still, knowing that and then watching the evil, sneaky, unprovoked ways that Hogan cheated, it really rubs me the wrong way because he comes off as a fraud. Like I spent my whole childhood cheering for this guy because he was so "GOOD" and then I look back and see he's a complete prick. And again, it wasn't out of desperation, self defense, "pulling out all the stops", "fighting fire with fire", "doing what you have to do to win" or any other cliches. I dunno, maybe its hard to explain unless you guys just see it yourselves. I encourage you to look it up if you haven't.

Ricky Steamboat is another "utimate good guy" and he never did the things Hogan did in the ring.

Actually, the best to compare this is Superman himself. Have you ever seen Superman in a comic book, movie, etc ever act like a complete prick? Nope. But Hogan? All the time!

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

No wonder Hogan vs Sid tanked, his 5th title was a joke and he was afraid to face Bret Hart for the title out of fear of being booed out of the arena.

Afraid to face Bret Hart? Ha, that's funny. This is the same Bret Hart that supposedly argued with Vince about his last title match in the WWF right? Again, I don't know how much of the Montreal Screwjob is real (despite what we've been fed over the years), but I'd venture a guess that there were probably creative differences about how everything should go down. And I'm sure Bret very likely could have been a royal pain to deal with too. But despite what you read in dirt sheets and in those "tell all" autobiographies of these wrestlers, I'm going to need more proof than just mere words to verify whether or not there ever really were plans for a Hogan vs Hart program. Considering the fact that Bret said there was promotional material such as photos of Bret and Hogan having a tug of war with the WWF Title, and yet these photos have never surfaced, which you think they would by now, makes me wonder how legit this whole possibility ever was in the first place. But then again, it never gets old with you impressionable types about the "inner workings" of the wrestling business. Christ, it's not like this subject is about something that can really affect the world, it's just entertainment we're talking about here. It's definitely not built on a sainthood. Let's stop treating it like one, shall we?

In addition to that, after reading the posts that have been taken up the three pages of this thread, I have to laugh. I think we are all over thinking this whole matter. I'll even include myself in this argument. Yes, there was a lot of conflict in the stance of Hogan's actions and how he actually carried them out when it came to the execution of his character. Boo freaking hoo, again this is all silly make believe stuff, entertaining yes. But again nothing to over think or take too seriously. It's interesting that the previous poster made a Superman comparison, well think about this Superman's mantra is "Truth, Justice, And The American Way...", well the truth part is rather questionable when you consider the fact that Superman's downtime consists of him wearing a suit and glasses as Clark Kent. Again, I get the whole thing that he's got to have a job where he can keep his "ear to the ground", like he stated in the Man Of Steel movie, and he's also got to protect those closest to him and all that jazz. But again, it's plain and simple...nothing is black and white. Superman can justify his keeping the truth about his real identity for the sake others, but just the same he's still hiding something. And trust me, I'm a bigger comic book fan than I am wrestling, and Superman's definitely done some down and dirty stuff to prevail because in many stories he's often had to compensate for not having the same power against adversaries capable of destroying the world like Doomsday, Brainiac and Darkseid.

My advice to everyone here, just remember that at the end of the day this is all a production, this isn't real life. Who Terry Bollea really is behind the scenes shouldn't dictate a damn thing, and no matter how big and powerful the star power of Hulk Hogan was back in the day, he still had a boss like Vince McMahon who I'm assuming very likely had the final say on everything.

So let's keep things in perspective here guys and gals.

 

[Wald]

Read back what I said.

I said Hogan was afraid of facing Hart because he was afraid he would get booed out of the building, which I have no doubt he would have been at that time. This was 1993 and people had been sick of Hogan for a year plus at this stage, his pops just weren't what they used to be.

The Hitman had surpassed him as the number one face at that time, keep in mind I'm saying at that time and had they fought at Summerslam I am fully sure the crowd would have at least been 75% behind the Hitman.

 

[mr.davidson]

Bret Hart wishes he was hulk hogan

You see Bret whines alot about Hogans in ring abilities and how all these Big guys in the 80's couldnt wrestle

The sad fact is that bret should thank the gods of wrestling that Hogan and his crew left and went to WCW or else he would still be a Mid card player just like Shawn would have been

Truth is he was upset that he didnt have the same say as Hogan did with Vince over his character...

See Bret likes to think he had the same drawing power as Hogan... but in the end it took him and shwan and nash and hall and taker to use all there might to just keep WWF above board just to compete with WCW and these so called 80's big guys that couldnt wrestle..

Until Steve Austin came in WWF was hurting plain and simple.... If not for Steve austin who is at the same level as Hulk Hogan... These mid cards were given the ball and just simply could not carry it