Why couldn't Vince understand ECW?

[CM Steel]

During the late 90's WWF/E chairman Vince McMahon has slowly became a fan of Extreme Championship Wrestling. And has found a fondness for the brand. So Vince helped endourse the company. But in 2001 when ECW went out of business, Vince McMahon aquired the ECW name and the rights to it.

So five years later Vince McMahon gave ECW a "re-birth" so to speak with his own ECW on the SyFy network. From the five years that Vince's "ECW" was alive it slowly got watered down each year. Year one with the ECW storylines were great! A year later ECW storylines were just good. And things from there on just sucked opposed to Christian returning to the WWE on the ECW brand, were he alone carried the brand on his back as a two-time ECW champion. A A-List wrestler on a C-List brand.

But even as a fan, Vince McMahon just didn't understand the nature of Extreme Championship Wrestling. Even if the WWE wasn't PG rated, the brand couldn't last or survive under Vince McMahon's care. We all knew that the ECW "One Night Stand" PPV wasn't going to be around forever.

Not even Dixie Carter and TNA couldn't understand ECW for that matter.

Me & other wrestling fans still wonder if Vince McMahon is such a wrestling wiz. Why couldn't he understand the thing that was ECW?

ECW R.I.P...forever!

 

[xoxo French Kiss xoxo]

Its 2011 and ECW died almost 10 years ago. Vince understood why that product died, and tried to change it to make it profitable, but wasn't able to because to many people longed for the old days of ECW. They wanted the talentless hacks to bleed, they wanted the terrible story lines, they wanted people to break their necks on a monthly basis, they wanted barbed wire, broken tables, and chair shots to the head. They didn't care about the well being of their wrestlers they just wanted to violence.

You are right about one thing ECW is Dead, RIP ECW FOREVER lets hope its never rehashed and that people GET THE FUCK OVER IT ALREADY

 

[Genius_Deadman]

Vince did understand it, that's why he did One Night Stand. he understood it from a business perspective because he did it when the guys could perform. Dixie did it in a mark type way where she hoped the older beat up guys could still work for one night (and apparently after that).

the problem with the ECW brand was Vince tried to market it as the original ECW, but then slowly transition it to his brand (and it didn't help SyFy tried to make it worse with zombie gimmicks). Vince just tried to milk ECW dry because ECW how it was would never work under the WWE brand and, just my opinion, this is why:

because ECW was like FCW in a way. you had the Dudleyz, Taz, Sandman, etc. work there because they couldn't get to the WWF or WCW without having some name recogniation. there's a reason why they left before. they busted their bodies there for cheap pay because that's all they had. once they left to the big time, the pay was better and the punishment minimized. Vince would honestly be a moron to try to recreate the old ECW because if it succeeds some (let's just say it's ratings are better than Smackdown), then Vince would have to give the ECW guys their do financially. you're talking about paying Tommy Dreamer more for every bump he takes, same with Sandman and Sabu. give that those guys are older and more injury prone, it'd just be a mistake.

that's just my personal take on it though. Vince did the same thing with ECW that he did with Hulkamania, he sucked every penny he could from it until it became irrelevant

 

[ahess49]

Fair enough, although I did answer the question. Vince doesn't understand things that he doesn't create or doesn't PERSONALLY like. He only sees things from his own perspective. It's why he thinks that things like the Katie Vick angle are funny even if no one else does.

 

[Swamp D.]

Vince McMahon NOT understanding business is like saying you guys have lives!

If he didn't understand business then he would not have one of the most profitable companies in the world. If he did everything that you guys wanted then WWE would be just like ECW and out of business!

.........Zack Ryder and Danial Bryan Suck and should be Fired......

 

[dcarson108]

Vince McMahon NOT understanding business is like saying you guys have lives!


.........Zack Ryder and Danial Bryan Suck and should be Fired......

So by Vince having these two employed, and one of them on TV every week, mean he doesn't understand business because ''they suck and should be fired"?

I don't buy the whole "if Vince didn't create, then he won't like it" deal. That's just foolish. He may lean toward more original ideas, but if something is good for business, then he'll go with that.

The big problem here his what made ECW work isn't around anymore. And another big problem is ECW's biggest "fans" weren't even around to watch it during it's original run. It had some entertaining things no doubt, but history has certainly made the company look a lot better than it was.

 

[ECW Sandman]

ECW wasn't Vince's baby ECW was Paul Heyman's baby Vince just put money in to the company with no one knowing about it, I believe Vince tryed to do his best by putting ECW back on tv but times has changed the wrestlers were older plus Vince Mc Mahon only knew '' Sports Entertainment '' not Hardcore Wrestling and his Vision was not what the fans of the old ECW enjoyed when the new ECW started in 2006 it was cool at first but then it just went down hill from there the first match of the new ECW truely sucked they had a guy dressed and act like a zombie and his name was '' The Zombie'' right then I was thinking to my self well this product sucks the letters ECW stood for EXTREME CHAMPIONSHIP WRESTLING like Jerry Lawler said back in the 90's but this is for WWECW WWECW's name stood for Extremely Crappy Wrestling because there ECW SUCKED BADLY.

 

[Mazzaroti78]

Vince pumped hundreds of thousands of dollars into ECW in the late 90's early 2000's. He signed Tazz and the Dudley's to big contracts. I don't think Vince cared much for the violence of ECW but he liked the workers. Tazz, RVD, Dudleys, Rhyno, Tajiri, Sandman, Dreamer, Sabu(he is his own worst enemy), all had good WWE runs. I believe that Vince was investing in Paul Heyman more than the ECW brand itself. ECW was out of business and Paul was head WWE writer the next day. Vince knew the real value of ECW was Heyman and that the wrestlers were just toys in Heyman's playground. Heyman doesn'r get taken to task for all the crap he pulled with his performers he just gets praised for his booking.

 

[muzz-rocks]

It's a good thing that Vince didn't understand ECW when it was his show because, i think Tod Gordon said it best, "Don't expect lightening to strike twice". I do believe that Vince understood ECW when it wasn't his and it was a great thing that he did when he helped promote ECWs first pay per view. He got a bunch of guys from ECW including Stone Cold and Mick Foley that shows that he knew the business, either that or he got lucky when he made these guys into the 2 of the biggest stars of the Attitude era.

I look back at old ECW videos on youtube and get nostalgic. Personally i wasn't a huge fan of the attitude era, i was watching ECW on vhs and i can see where WWE got ideas for the attitude era by watching old ECW shows. There was no way that they could re-create the feeling of ECW, it's like trying to bring back Bevis and Butthead and putting them into todays world. It wouldn't work.

Just enjoy ECW for what was

 

[Fallen Angel 21.3]

Its 2011 and ECW died almost 10 years ago. Vince understood why that product died, and tried to change it to make it profitable, but wasn't able to because to many people longed for the old days of ECW. They wanted the talentless hacks to bleed, they wanted the terrible story lines, they wanted people to break their necks on a monthly basis, they wanted barbed wire, broken tables, and chair shots to the head. They didn't care about the well being of their wrestlers they just wanted to violence.

You are right about one thing ECW is Dead, RIP ECW FOREVER lets hope its never rehashed and that people GET THE FUCK OVER IT ALREADY

Talentless hacks I'm sorry i just don't understand what you mean here because I seem to remember that ECW was the first company to bring in the Lucha Libra style of wrestling to the U.S. ECW also had guys like Chris Benoit, RVD, Taz, Jerry Lynn, Rhino, Mike Awesome, Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko, Terry Funk and Mick Foley are all according to you talentles hacks because damn near everybody I said are better than whats on WWE current roster. Your one of the many people that don't get ECW and ever will. Let me guess you the type of guy that wants to cheer for John Cena and just love it when he does the 5 moves of doom or love how the Rock says he going to stick his foot put peoples asses. For me i will take that spot monkey fest you call any damn day of the week. ECW was the change that pro wrestling needed they didn't parade guys around in color outfits and create comic book characters NO these pro wrestlers were everyday guys you could be working with and were living out there dreams. ECW changed pro wrestling like Grunge changed rock and roll and ECW was taken before its time because of backstage bullshit. Also the other thing that ECW did to its fans was put there blood sweat and tears on the line, and another thing Paul Heyman didn't bullshit the fans like WWE and TNA do when sombody gets injured and they would be written off no Paul came out and said they got injured and they will be comming back. Yeah they had shitty storylines what about the Dream/Raven fued, Taz/Sabu fued, Sandman/Raven all of those fued where just a few of ECW best.

 

[Mercer the Ruthless]

I think Vince did understand it, but it's not like WWE or WCW, it was more savage and lethal (granted it was still organized). Everything about it was just plain dangerous at times; so it became a question of, how do you market a product like that to the mainstream outside of the ECW elite and hardcore, so to speak? You almost can't and I think when Vince began to use ECW as a conduit to make new stars it all sort of fell apart at the seams. In my opinion that second year killed ECW, the year Benoit died that seemed like shifted ECW's route.

 

[HamSwissman]

Its 2011 and ECW died almost 10 years ago. Vince understood why that product died, and tried to change it to make it profitable, but wasn't able to because to many people longed for the old days of ECW. They wanted the talentless hacks to bleed, they wanted the terrible story lines, they wanted people to break their necks on a monthly basis, they wanted barbed wire, broken tables, and chair shots to the head. They didn't care about the well being of their wrestlers they just wanted to violence.

You are right about one thing ECW is Dead, RIP ECW FOREVER lets hope its never rehashed and that people GET THE FUCK OVER IT ALREADY

ECW had some awesome stories and rivalries, especially toward the end. To say that their fans only wanted bloodbaths is to say that Attitude Era fans only wanted titties and ******edly childish skits. Not correct, Junior. You had to look through the trash to see the gold (the gold that is MUCH less abundant now). Vince understood ECW. He is just so arrogant that anything he didn't "create" is buried beyond belief. A shame really, as the new ECW could have really worked.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Extreme Championship Wrestling died in 2001 and it has had two ressurections.

ECW One Night Stand 2005 and 2006 did the ECW name and brand justice. The DVD sales on anything with ECW on it were going through the roof. In the 2004 - 2006 period, the acronym ECW was a cash cow, and what does Vince do with cash cows? He milks them. He brought the brand back for a profit, maybe in an attempt to be able to sign more talent and maybe just because he wanted to respect the legacy ECW left behind.

ECWonSyfy failed, and failed in a firey blaze. The one man who could run that show is Paul Heyman, and his issue was McMahon. Heyman would come to Vince with ideas and Vince would shoot them down, hence why Paul Heyman was released the day after December to Dismember and hence the reason he will never, ever work for the WWE ever again. He said in an interview with GoFightLive.tv that he felt WWE raped ECW and then stuck it back in the coffin.

Vince "understood" ECW very well. He understood he could get ratings in off it, merchandise sales, publicity and a huge profit. And that's exactly what he did. And when he was done, and when Heyman was gone, he didn't care. Because without Heyman, ECW was dead anyway.

 

[itssoeasy123]

ECW was nothing but a ballroom non-draw that get's way to much credit. It's been dead for 10 year's and still don't see why people are still talking about it, much less bringing it back, it's lasting impact is dramatically overstated.

Vince McMahon did everything he can back in 1997 to get ECW exposure, even going so far to have ECW superstar's actually on RAW. He actually gave Heyman money to help run his sompany, he endorsed in ECW, and liked ECW. But, instead of paying off his talent, Heyman bounced way to much check's and had to file for bankruptcy becuase Paul Heyman cannot count.

There's nothing to understand in ECW other than the fact it didn't draw and has'nt really done anything for the business. Heyman employed many men who are completely irrelevant today, and half of them were talentless drunks. Sure, they had some talent like Jericho, Malenko, Benoit, Mysterio, Austin, but they got popular in WCW and WWE. ECW only built drunk's like Sandman and Balls Mahoney, who in fact are completely irrelevant today. None of the wrestlers on the roster were really talented enough to be able to take an angle or their style to the next level, either, so what you saw was what you got.

The whole Hardcore shitck did not draw, as evidence as ECW going out of business in 6 year's, it's not popular anymore as evidence in TNA, and a lot of the stuff Heyman and that crew try to take credit for, is mostly bogus. Luchadores were all through the territories, so Heyman can't say that he was opening eyes to Mexico, either. And flaming table, chairs and barbwire? Well, no one in North America was doing that stuff, but FMW and Big Japan had been in full swing for a number of years.

I hardly think that a small indy promotion out of Philly had the kind of influence on the creative direction of the national companies that they think they did.

 

[abraxasdeux]

They wanted the talentless hacks to bleed, they wanted the terrible story lines, they wanted people to break their necks on a monthly basis, they wanted barbed wire, broken tables, and chair shots to the head. They didn't care about the well being of their wrestlers they just wanted to violence.

I joined just so I could comment on this absolutely tasteless post (which may or may not be geniune trollbait depending on who you ask).

ECW was never about bloodshed (though that was what they were most well known for), it was just about GOOD wrestling.

WWF/WWE only survived the Monday Night Wars by copying Paul Heyman's formula (and later bringing him on to write storylines) and if they didn't, well we probably wouldn't be sitting here talking about how so and so lost to so and so because Wrestling in the public eye wouldn't exist.

 

[wrestling89]

Vince did understand ECW. He also knew that it wasn't his creation. So after the initial outings (One Night Stand), he ran with it, tried to make it his own, and just made it disappear. He did this with many people and things.

The nWo, WCW, Ron Garvin, Dusty Rhodes, Barry Windham, the WarGames, The Great American Bash, Goldberg, DDP, Kerry Von Erich, and the list can go on and on.............

 

[relentless1]

ECW was shit, ECW is like that movie that people can quote and has that following but didnt make a dime and the critics panned, vince tried ecw because he wanted to give something to the fans. frankly he wouldve had a better shot bringing back WCW.vince didnt want to understand ECW beacuse it was a joke.period.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Say whatever you want but vince did understand ECW and what they were trying to accomplish. The big difference is that vince understood that you can't just make a product like ECW and expect it to grow and prosper on a national stage.

Even though ECW on TNN sucked horribly because of the network didn't help things ECW was always designed to appeal to the hardcore wrestling fan and nothing else. The truth is ECW could never survive long term if he didn't make changes to the product and had it appeal to the masses.

The problem is he made it a little too WWE like. I thought the first 6 months of ECW were great with a good mix of wwe and ecw programming but went a little too WWE whoch alienated its harcore fanbase which was proven when the ratings started to slide and it came to a point where it didn't really appeal to anyone, it pretty much became WWE superstars.

Vince understood the product well enough to see its flaws he just went overboard with the changes and just tried to make it another WWE brand like smackdown or RAW (which to be fair always did better than ECW ratings wise) and that's his perogitive, he just wanted to go with what he knew worked. The gamble didn't pay off because he presented it as ECW when it clearly wasn't, but its not because he didn't understand.i

 

[itssoeasy123]

*wipes tears of laughter from his eyes*

WCW was a biggest fucking joke in wrestling period

the only thing that it had going for it was the NWO, that's it

It had subpar wrestlers, terrible storylines, and only hyped the older talent and none of the up and coming wrestlers like Benoit and Jericho

TNA IS the modern day revival of WCW and we all know how well that's working out

If WCW never had the fiancial backing of Turner and the older and still popular talent roster that it had aquired, it would have folded almost instantaniously

The only reason people started tuning in was because Hulk Hogan signed with them in 92-93

WCW almost put WWE out of business, and was the only other wrestling promotion to successfully beat WWE in the rating's 84 week's in a RAW. What did ECW do, absolutely nothing in the business aspect other than be a glorified indie that folded in 6 year's becuase their owner could'nt count. IMO, ECW get's way to much credit when people say the company's of the 90's, WWE and WCW were competing and successful, ECW was just there trying to get PPV buy's.

Sure, the show may not have been young talent heavy, but at the time guy's like Hogan and Savage (RIP) were relevant, and they still drew as much as they did in WWE.

If WCW never had the fiancial backing of Turner

You can say the same thing with TNA and Panda Energy, or even Vince McMahon endorsing ECW and giving them TV time on RAW to promote their show, much less giving Paul Heyman money. But, Heyman single-handedly went bankrupt.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

The concept of ECW wasn't a difficult one to grasp. It was a legit alternative to WCW & WWF in some ways during the late 90s. Vince did understand it. He also understood that ECW as it was during it's so called peak was something that couldn't succeed on a large, mainstream basis.

When Heyman was able to land a tv deal with TNN, which eventually became Spike, the brass of the network heavily edited the content of the show. As a result, a lot of what made ECW ECW wasn't shown on tv. It became a very watered down product compared to what it generally was. The violence portrayed on ECW was, at times, extremely graphic and it could be downright raunchy at times.

Was there more to it than that? Sure, but that's not what ECW built itself on. Whenever I saw an advertisement for ECW on tv or for one of its ppvs, what did it show? The hardcore stuff. Somebody going through a flaming table, someone getting a chair bounced off their skull, someone jumping from a balcony and putting someone through a table, guys wrestling on barbed wire, Taz & Bam Bam Bigelow going through the stage leading to the ring, women gyrating and strutting their stuff like pole dancers, etc. The reason why so many people think that's all ECW was is because that's what ECW advertised itself on. That's what it used to try and get itself over. It created its own image, so I can't blame anyone for viewing ECW as just a hardcore wrestling company.

Vince tried to go a different route with ECW. It failed, it failed big time, but he tried it differently. For ECW to remain faithful to what ultimately brought it to the dance, a television deal in which the show could turn a profit was out of the question.