Why change in the first place?

[FreedomOfMan]

This is a question I've had on my mind since it was announced H was gonna use bullet points for wrestlers as opposed to scripts (ala back in the day).

It seemed to have been a winning formula back when the attitude era and ruthless aggression era as there have been so many memorable events and promos, it makes you wonder why a change in the formula was even implemented.

Thats my biggest schpeal with the product at the moment. Why did Vince decide to change it up in the first place? Was he just tired of the formula? Wanted absolute (or close to it) control of all the work with the wrestlers? or did he just lose faith in his wrestlers (He had lost alot of big names amongst this transition)?

I feel that had he not tightned the reigns on what his workers could say, we'd have alot more people that are over and scrambling for the title as opposed to today.

I guess im asking everyones opinion on why do you think Vince changed his formula?

I try to make an hypothesis theory and a solution andit honestly doesnt add up. One can say money is the overall goal for change, but when you take into account ring upgrades, visual upgrades and renting of stadiums add to the turnoff of alot of disgruntled fans, sooner or later without a product everyone can truely find interesting, he'll find himself in the red.

 

[SuperKick36]

Simpy put: the PG rating.

Most wrestlers (many people in general, really), when they get emotional, will being using inappropriate language or dialogue. The best wrestlers who cut promos have the ability to control the content of their promos, however this requires experience. Many wrestlers that the WWE has had over the past 8 years or so do NOT have that experience or control.

These wrestlers are brought up in an intense, testosterone flooded, competitive environment where people curse like sailors consistently and discuss things that kids should not necessarily hear (based on most parent's opinions). When this language is used on a regular basis, it's hard to not say these words when you're on a roll cutting a promo.

When you follow a script as closely as possible, you are not going to get as much of the "not so kid friendly" content if it is written as such.

Vince and the WWE wanted to go to a more kid friendly environment and make their product a show that is more family oriented vs. targeting adults.

If creative is writing the scripts essentially word for word, the performer's dialogue is in control.

HHH's implementation of the bullet points is just getting these newer guys used to cutting promos. It's an excellent idea and they can begin coaching guys to make sure they don't say "bad stuff."

The script idea, from the start, was stupid and it is part of the reason why the product is stale because guys don't have the ability to be themselves.

 

[FreedomOfMan]

I agree on all points there man. But one have to ask was it worth it? Vince was at one point a billionare, which even further confuses me with his plan for PG.

I understand that the Rock and Wrestling era Caaaan be consider PG (To an extent), but they werent stifeled no where near these guys today.

To quote Lewis Black, "I'm surprised that wrestlers found out about it, they didnt rise as one and slay" him.

Simpy put: the PG rating.

Most wrestlers (many people in general, really), when they get emotional, will being using inappropriate language or dialogue. The best wrestlers who cut promos have the ability to control the content of their promos, however this requires experience. Many wrestlers that the WWE has had over the past 8 years or so do NOT have that experience or control.

These wrestlers are brought up in an intense, testosterone flooded, competitive environment where people curse like sailors consistently and discuss things that kids should not necessarily hear (based on most parent's opinions). When this language is used on a regular basis, it's hard to not say these words when you're on a roll cutting a promo.

When you follow a script as closely as possible, you are not going to get as much of the "not so kid friendly" content if it is written as such.

Vince and the WWE wanted to go to a more kid friendly environment and make their product a show that is more family oriented vs. targeting adults.

If creative is writing the scripts essentially word for word, the performer's dialogue is in control.

HHH's implementation of the bullet points is just getting these newer guys used to cutting promos. It's an excellent idea and they can begin coaching guys to make sure they don't say "bad stuff."

The script idea, from the start, was stupid and it is part of the reason why the product is stale because guys don't have the ability to be themselves.

 

[donfryeismyhero]

It has nothing to do with it becoming pg again. They started doing scripted promos before that point. It was either towards the end of the Attitude Era or soon after. Vince is a control freak & as he's gotten older, he's become more so one then previous.

 

[VinnieSunshine]

It has nothing to do with it becoming pg again. They started doing scripted promos before that point. It was either towards the end of the Attitude Era or soon after. Vince is a control freak & as he's gotten older, he's become more so one then previous.

True statement. Vince likes to control what his workers say and do. Case in point, the announcers. It's partly why JR isn't there anymore and the reason Foley left and went to TNA. Vince commands them from a headset in the back. They are his puppets, every word from their mouth is from his. He tells them what to say.

There was a report about The Highlight Reel segment a few weeks back that said Vince told Cole and Lawler to bury it because he thought it was awful. Again, Brad Maddox forgot his lines and stumbled (making that ending far worse than the segment was).

Triple H isn't a control freak. He wants wrestlers to feel relaxed and natural when delivering a promo. Go back and watch old promos from John Morrisons and how robotic he sounded (granted his mic skills aren't THAT great).

 

[willross]

Vince RUSSO was the one who started scripting promos for guys back in the attitude era. First time it had happened across the board.

Certain guys were given bullet points but most were given word for word things to say most of the time back then. It carried over into writers of now.

The big difference was, GUYS BACK THEN KNEW THEIR CHARACTERS. Guys now DO NOT.

Triple H sees it and realizes that characters ceilings will continuously be lower and lower if they aren't allowed to make the characters their own, take an idea and mold it to their comfortability.

IN the next 5 -10 years we will see a lot more natural sounding promos and characters just due to the performer being the voice and not a guy with a pencil.

Scripting worked but everything has to change eventually.

 

[SuperKick36]

Vince RUSSO was the one who started scripting promos for guys back in the attitude era. First time it had happened across the board.

Certain guys were given bullet points but most were given word for word things to say most of the time back then. It carried over into writers of now.

The big difference was, GUYS BACK THEN KNEW THEIR CHARACTERS. Guys now DO NOT.

Triple H sees it and realizes that characters ceilings will continuously be lower and lower if they aren't allowed to make the characters their own, take an idea and mold it to their comfortability.

IN the next 5 -10 years we will see a lot more natural sounding promos and characters just due to the performer being the voice and not a guy with a pencil.

Scripting worked but everything has to change eventually.

Right, and look what happened to Vince Russo... but they KEPT the scripting plan.

WWE has been moving away from the "Attitude Era" for years. They've been getting less and less adult-oriented and more kid friendly since the early to mid 2000's. Just go back and look at their collective story-lines and how they've been changing content-wise.

The scripting isn't ENTIRELY due to the PG era, obviously, but it must be a large part of the reason why it has been kept.

Of course, not one single person on any dirt-sheet website or forum knows the true reason so I'm not arguing that I'm absolutely right, but this is the way I've seen it for a while now.

Nor do I like it.

 

[Headman]

One answer would be the attitude audience abandoned them because wrestling wasn't cool any more. And then you have this notion that the attitude era was what it was based on booking alone (Which I think sucked btw). People pine about bringing back the attitude era as if it's as easy as writing new fart jokes every week. They overlook the most obvious component for the era's success... The roster duh!

As far as the booking goes, it all comes down to money. If Vince thought dick jokes were still in vogue he'd bring them back in a heart beat. If he thought championship hot potato
was the answer, we'd see more of that as well.

Times have changed and so has the booking. I feel the same exact way when watching cartoons now days. It's almost as if they're not being written for a man in his 30's! Shocking! So pretty much if you feel it's not for you, it's probably because it's not intended to be.

 

[M]

I think it had something to do with the main talent on the rosters starting to leave the company, it probably made Vince scared that the talent he did have left wasn't going to be good enough to handle themselves alone without the full guidance of a script, so rather than risk the product becoming an unwatchable trainwreck he played the safer option of giving them scripts so he could be sure that he wasn't going to destroy his show.

What made him keep doing it, however, was probably his thinking of "why fix something that could be held together with duct-tape and badly rehearsed lines?" - other crap like ratings and personal control freak-ness probably had a big thing to do with it too, but that's too obvious to discuss.

 

[MCMG]

Society has moved on since the Attitude era. Vince wants his product exposed to as many people as possible. You can't do that with edgy storylines so going PG will mean younger people are interested in WWE. It should mean that there is greater revenue for the WWE. IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.

 

[FreedomOfMan]

Society has moved on since the Attitude era. Vince wants his product exposed to as many people as possible. You can't do that with edgy storylines so going PG will mean younger people are interested in WWE. It should mean that there is greater revenue for the WWE. IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.

But time has shown that Vince ultimately lost money. He was once a billionaire who is now a millionaire. It seems going PG is the safe steady bet to not lose anymore money, but the longer he keeps the scripts, the more peoplewill be dissatisfied with the problem,like now, and the more blame will be placed on other people (Brad Maddox anyone?).

If Vince would just have more faith in his workers, I believe who could do PG and still kept the other demographics happy.

 

[MCMG]

But time has shown that Vince ultimately lost money. He was once a billionaire who is now a millionaire. It seems going PG is the safe steady bet to not lose anymore money, but the longer he keeps the scripts, the more peoplewill be dissatisfied with the problem,like now, and the more blame will be placed on other people (Brad Maddox anyone?).

If Vince would just have more faith in his workers, I believe who could do PG and still kept the other demographics happy.

Many companies are loosing money. I was suggesting that this change was a decision to make money but didn't work.

Changing again would be crazy risky. There is a massive transitional change so it may take a while to develop a new fan base.

 

[FreedomOfMan]

Many companies are loosing money. I was suggesting that this change was a decision to make money but didn't work.

Changing again would be crazy risky. There is a massive transitional change so it may take a while to develop a new fan base.

Indeed. Hmm...I had a scary thought. Do you think that this "era" is the last era we'll ever see before an ultimate kaput of Business? With H, maybe there will be another era coming, how many more transitions do they have in them? I mean what could be done that could bring back a disenfranchised fan base?

Ha, we had a rock and wrestling era, are we gonna have a dub and stomp era?

 

[FlairFan2003]

The Rock & Wrestling era was way more kid friendly and childish than today's product. It was like Disney w/ a ring. It's the main reason the NWA got such good ratings on TBS back then despite not having near the slickly produced, polished look for the product WWE had. Better matches, adult language, much harsher violence, compared to WWE it was like the difference between Hannah Montana & Die Hard.

Scripting promos rose as a way to help less creative, and in some cases less charismatic performers get over with the TV audience. To an extent it worked, the biggest problem being too many guys never developed the charisma or had the talent to maintain the initial push. WWE hasnt produced many legit stars post 2000 and with no other wrestling company rivaling them for ratings and PPV Audience there is no viable alternative for producing stars outside the WWE Universe (TNA, even w/ Hogan, Sting, & Angle struggles to do half the audience WCW was doing their final 6 mths on air, let alone what they did at the height of the NWO angle, or even the pre NWO numbers when the show was basically just Hogan-Flair-Savage).

One thing the more course language and sex ridden product of The Attitude Era did was make advertisers leary of association with WWE. The company had multiple issues w/ censors with Both USA & Spike Networks. Merchandise sales are a huge part of the company business and WWE was routinely getting bad publicity due to various advocacy groups protesting the nature of the programming when so much of the business model depended on selling toys, posters, & DVDs to kids. Vince went edgy, or at least went crude (Attitude was defined by juvenille, immature humor and course language, WCW was investing in a more adult oriented storyline product with the undertones of a divided roster trying to unite against the NWO during the Invasion Angle) as a way to get the audience attention away from WCW at a time they were considered cutting edge and adult and WWE was passe. Once WCW folded Vince & company started moving away from Attitude towards a more traditional product. Ruthless Aggression had some moments but overall was very similar to the current show. It was more popular only because it relied heavily on older 80s guys like HBK, Flair, Hogan, and older 90s guys like Triple H & Taker, guys who drew an older audience due to their popularity. It isnt a coincidence that numbers are way down from 10yrs or even 5yrs ago now that HBK & Flair are gone, Taker & HHH almost gone. It hurts that two guys who became legit stars post 2000 (Edge, Batista) ended their careers early, they would be assets in this star-starved time today.

No one can predict when the next business boom will come. Fans need not worry, WWE remains a billion dollar international corporation that generates hundreds of millions in revenue EVERY QUARTER. They are making money, Vince is laughing all the way to the bank, passing much improved relationship with advertisers and sponsors on his way. Fans can also take heart, it is possible that the next great industry boom could be created by talent already a part of the current product. Remember, WWEs Attitude Era drew low numbers and was not that big a part of the last boom till the tail end. That period was spearheaded by guys who achieved audience recogntion during the much malligned New Generation Era (Nash & Hall) and a small collection of older 80s stars (Hogan, Sting, Flair, Savage). John Cena and Randy Orton could be on the cusp of initiating the next great industry expansion, you never know.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

In some ways, Vince McMahon is an extremely strange man. In some ways he's a visionary and in some ways, he seems like a fool.

For more than a decade now, Vince is someone who has really & truly wanted to change the image of WWE. For some strange reason, Vince seems to be almost embarrassed by the idea that WWE is a wrestling company. He's wanted people to see WWE as more than a wrestling company, hence all the stuff with WWE Films, the WWE Network, courting social media, the use of buzz words like sports entertainment & superstar, etc.

When it comes to the image of WWE, Triple H is someone who seems to have no problem whatsoever with people seeing WWE as being exactly what it is: a professional wrestling company. I think Triple H is someone that's grounded enough to know that no matter what, people are always going to think of WWE as a wrestling company first & foremost. It was a wrestling company LONG before Vince took over from his father, it's a wrestling company now and it'll be a wrestling company when they plant Vince in the ground. The only way that changes is if WWE just goes completely belly up.

Triple H is said to be a much more "old school" oriented guy in terms of how certain things work. I believe he's also someone that has an idea of what works and what doesn't. For instance, Vince embracing social media is actually a good idea for WWE because big changes are coming to all of entertainment because of it. Beginning in the fall, Nielsen, which tabulates the ratings & viewership for every show on television, will now, somehow, begin factoring in devices like phones & tablets and computers when it comes to ratings. WWE has a strong presence there and, as a result, WWE's overall viewership could be exceedingly high when all those other media outlets are factored in along with traditional television. Trips is someone that embraces all that stuff but I don't think he's someone that really, really is infatuated with it in the same ways that Vince is.

When it comes to pro wrestling, it's always going to be viewed as kind of "low brow" no matter how many celebrities rub elbows with WWE wrestlers or how many Oscar winners star in movies WWE makes. But that's okay. Most of the top shows on television are pretty low brow. Everything from Duck Dynasty to Storage Wars to The Walking Dead are kinda sorta low brow, but they have rabid fans just like WWE does. When it comes to WWE, Triple H is someone who knows that fans will always be there if they have the basics: wrestlers they care about, interesting feuds and good wrestling matches.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I don't think Vince is embarrased of it being a "wrestling company" more that everything else he has tried has ultimately failed. He's embarrased of being remembered as a wrestling promoter rather than a "Media Mogul" which is what he clearly has always wanted. The irony is that if he stuck to what he knew, as he did in the 80's the mainstream ops were there... People came to WWF in the 80's not like today...

Vince ultimately was never a great "wrestling man" but one who could market to children very well indeed. Disney with a ring is right, I am even willing to bet that Vince is secretly hoping the Mouse House comes and makes him an offer like they did with Marvel and Star Wars rather than hand it over to Trips and Steph.

 

[cubuff37]

Wow I love HHH's idea of bullet points. In today's WWE, the best talkers are just simply the guys that can add the most effective enthusiasm to what they are told to say. The superstar's aren't given much freedom, and they're not being themselves. They're being the person the WWE makes them.

If the superstar's are just told to cover main points and are given the freedom to talk on their own and be themselves, that would take more talent, more confidence, and would be a lot more authentic. Sure, maybe sometimes you may not have quite the speech the writers came up with, but it would be authentic. It would be what the actual superstar said, not what he was told to say.

Not to mention, when superstars are confronted and must give their rebuddle, it would make things a lot more interesting.

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

Wow I love HHH's idea of bullet points. In today's WWE, the best talkers are just simply the guys that can add the most effective enthusiasm to what they are told to say. The superstar's aren't given much freedom, and they're not being themselves. They're being the person the WWE makes them.

If the superstar's are just told to cover main points and are given the freedom to talk on their own and be themselves, that would take more talent, more confidence, and would be a lot more authentic. Sure, maybe sometimes you may not have quite the speech the writers came up with, but it would be authentic. It would be what the actual superstar said, not what he was told to say.

Not to mention, when superstars are confronted and must give their rebuddle, it would make things a lot more interesting.

Is this why your favorite wrestler (Morrison) was one of the worst talkers in the business when he was in the WWE? Because it was scripted?

 

[wrestlingfan]

I agree on all points there man. But one have to ask was it worth it? Vince was at one point a billionare, which even further confuses me with his plan for PG.

I understand that the Rock and Wrestling era Caaaan be consider PG (To an extent), but they werent stifeled no where near these guys today.

To quote Lewis Black, "I'm surprised that wrestlers found out about it, they didnt rise as one and slay" him.

Believe it or not, PG makes him money. Vince made 106 million off of John Cena in 2011, and that was just Cena. He was still making money off of Punk in that year too.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Why did Vince decide to change it up in the first place? Was he just tired of the formula? Wanted absolute (or close to it) control of all the work with the wrestlers?

Three things, I would think:

Age- The older a person gets, the stodgier their thinking. Their thought process often gets narrower, as does their tolerance for surprises. They often no longer appreciate the value of allowing their people to express themselves, thinking that scripting every move is a better course to follow, a better way to eliminate errors.

Self-importance- If he sees his company as an extension of himself (which VKM surely does), he might start to presume that the product would be better if he directed all aspects of it. He knows he built an empire and reasons that his way is the only way.....and he has the power to implement it. Which leads to.....

Control freak- The aspect VKM has been accused of for years.....and it only got stronger as time went on. As his arteries hardened, I can see him trusting others less and less, figuring that since things couldn't run without him, he might as well tighten the screws and channel all parts of the promotion through himself. To add to that mess, the passing years have caused him to react with extreme anger to anything that displeased him, a condition that makes the working environment rotten for everyone.

A decent example of the last point is all the women who have left the company. Look at the ranks of the top divas who've departed in the past year. Their circumstances must be truly bad to cause such an extreme exodus......and if the leader of the company is the man you simply can't go to when things are bad, your only choice is to abandon the great paying job and leave.

VKM is too old....he's been doing this too many years.....and his method of doing business has devolved to an autocracy: a President who won't listen to his Cabinet. That's why he changed the way it's done.

Take a vacation, Vince......a long one.