The rumble was proof that WWE doesn't give a shit what the fans think. When they hired DB and let him run with the strap it brought them a huge indy fan base, then to have him lose it due to a kiss. Then this whole you're a B rate player angle is pissing more fans off than anything. Reigns although a talented and athletic man isn't READY for a mania headline. He sucks on the mic, needs more credible in ring wins and ooh btw needs to become his own man. Lesnar can't carry a match, Reigns can't carry a match. Mania is going to be horrible this year unless WWE does something drastic
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Why Bring Daniel Back?
- Thread starter tnablows
- Start date
CaptainZaltan
Getting Noticed By Management
Yes, if the WWE wanted Reigns to get over at the RR, they should have kept Bryan's return until after the PPV. For that matter, maybe they should have also kept Ziggler, Mizdow, Ambrose, and the other half of the roster that's more over than Reigns off of the show?
You mention that Reigns worked hard to get where he is, and that the Philly crowd ruined his moment for him. DID Reigns work hard to get where he is? Reigns didn't get over because he has a connection with the crowd, or because he worked his ass off to put on the best matches or give the best promos. He didn't get over with the fans organically through his own talents or dedication. He was put in his position because the boss likes him, and decided to overlook his many shortcomings (whereas guys like Cesaro or Ziggler don't get that luxury). He was picked out by Vince very early in his career to be protected and groomed into a main eventer. Everyone he's worked with has had specific orders to make him look strong. The WWE marketing machine has done it's best to tell us that he's the superstar of the year and one of the top superstars in the company, despite the fact that his main events and singles titles (or lack thereof) say otherwise. And he's been placed in an incredibly predictable storyline specifically designed to make him the new top guy. He even had the Rock come out to try and put him over.
I'm not going to say that Reigns was handed everything, but you sure as hell can't say that other guys on that roster haven't had to work harder than him to get where they are. For example: Daniel Bryan, who busted his ass wrestling all over the world, dedicated himself completely to being the best he can be in his craft, is consistently entertaining, and has overcome adversity from management at every turn to get where he is. Or Ziggler. Or Ambrose. In 2015, real life talent, ingenuity, and dedication goes a lot further with wrestling fans than fake storylines or a slammy award, and fans can't stand to see someone get handed the keys to the kingdom while so many others bust their ass in vain. Vince Mcmahon should have known that. He's the one who screwed Reigns, because he insists that the fans learn to love what he is selling, rather than figuring out how to sell the fans something they will love.
You mention that Reigns worked hard to get where he is, and that the Philly crowd ruined his moment for him. DID Reigns work hard to get where he is? Reigns didn't get over because he has a connection with the crowd, or because he worked his ass off to put on the best matches or give the best promos. He didn't get over with the fans organically through his own talents or dedication. He was put in his position because the boss likes him, and decided to overlook his many shortcomings (whereas guys like Cesaro or Ziggler don't get that luxury). He was picked out by Vince very early in his career to be protected and groomed into a main eventer. Everyone he's worked with has had specific orders to make him look strong. The WWE marketing machine has done it's best to tell us that he's the superstar of the year and one of the top superstars in the company, despite the fact that his main events and singles titles (or lack thereof) say otherwise. And he's been placed in an incredibly predictable storyline specifically designed to make him the new top guy. He even had the Rock come out to try and put him over.
I'm not going to say that Reigns was handed everything, but you sure as hell can't say that other guys on that roster haven't had to work harder than him to get where they are. For example: Daniel Bryan, who busted his ass wrestling all over the world, dedicated himself completely to being the best he can be in his craft, is consistently entertaining, and has overcome adversity from management at every turn to get where he is. Or Ziggler. Or Ambrose. In 2015, real life talent, ingenuity, and dedication goes a lot further with wrestling fans than fake storylines or a slammy award, and fans can't stand to see someone get handed the keys to the kingdom while so many others bust their ass in vain. Vince Mcmahon should have known that. He's the one who screwed Reigns, because he insists that the fans learn to love what he is selling, rather than figuring out how to sell the fans something they will love.
sanefan_har
The Crimson Kestrel
I was predicting a final four of Bryan, Roman, Ambrose and Ziggler. Boy was I wrong.
But none of this is Roman's fault. He's much newer to pro-wrestling than Ambrose and Rollins. All his promos are (reportedly) being scripted by Vince McMahon himself and he's been given the typical babyface comeback moveset. And it's certainly not his mistake that Bryan is far more over than him.
And the whole "no one should main event Mania 2 years in a row" thing is bullshit. But I think others have countered that statement pretty well, so I'll leave that out of my rambling.
While last year's rumble was notorious solely for the fact Batista won it, this rumble match was just poor. Here's why :
1. All the surprise entrants came in before no.15. Like Bubba came out at number 3. What the hell?
2. Curtis Axel was never reported as "taken out of the match". Again, stupid mistake on the part of the creative team.
3.The botched quick elimination of Titus O'Neil. I mean that was just stupid. I can see why Justin Gabriel quit.
4. The "Kofi Kingston saves himself" spot was a massive letdown. Imagine if Mount Vesuvius kept rumbling for 3 minutes and then sent out a smoke ring. That's what this was.
5. They rung the bell after Roman eliminated Kane and Big Show, even though Rusev wasn't eliminated. What kind of referee does that?
6. Bryan should have been booked to last atleast until the final five (four is heavily debatable, despite the fact I was hoping him to win it)
And to go back to the original point of the thread, it's painfully obvious the WWE Management doesn't give audience reactions any sort of credibility. As long as that attitude isn't adjusted (sorry for the pun), I doubt the company can make legitimate superstars. As of now, it's all up to the superstars to make themselves relevant.
But none of this is Roman's fault. He's much newer to pro-wrestling than Ambrose and Rollins. All his promos are (reportedly) being scripted by Vince McMahon himself and he's been given the typical babyface comeback moveset. And it's certainly not his mistake that Bryan is far more over than him.
And the whole "no one should main event Mania 2 years in a row" thing is bullshit. But I think others have countered that statement pretty well, so I'll leave that out of my rambling.
While last year's rumble was notorious solely for the fact Batista won it, this rumble match was just poor. Here's why :
1. All the surprise entrants came in before no.15. Like Bubba came out at number 3. What the hell?
2. Curtis Axel was never reported as "taken out of the match". Again, stupid mistake on the part of the creative team.
3.The botched quick elimination of Titus O'Neil. I mean that was just stupid. I can see why Justin Gabriel quit.
4. The "Kofi Kingston saves himself" spot was a massive letdown. Imagine if Mount Vesuvius kept rumbling for 3 minutes and then sent out a smoke ring. That's what this was.
5. They rung the bell after Roman eliminated Kane and Big Show, even though Rusev wasn't eliminated. What kind of referee does that?
6. Bryan should have been booked to last atleast until the final five (four is heavily debatable, despite the fact I was hoping him to win it)
And to go back to the original point of the thread, it's painfully obvious the WWE Management doesn't give audience reactions any sort of credibility. As long as that attitude isn't adjusted (sorry for the pun), I doubt the company can make legitimate superstars. As of now, it's all up to the superstars to make themselves relevant.
Lesnar is a fucking animal. Seeing him match up and lose to Bryan would be a little ridiculous imo. Especially if DB goes for submissions or tries to out wrestle Lesnar during the match.
Hopefully, Reigns just turns into a wrecking machine. Cut out the stupid promos and just be an intense ass kicker..
Unfortunately, for Reigns fans have already made up their minds instead of giving it chance. They could do a good job and a lot of fans will still crap all over it.
Hopefully, Reigns just turns into a wrecking machine. Cut out the stupid promos and just be an intense ass kicker..
Unfortunately, for Reigns fans have already made up their minds instead of giving it chance. They could do a good job and a lot of fans will still crap all over it.
SacredMesa
Pre-Show Stalwart
The decisions of this company are a special kind of stupid. Look I get Reigns is your golden boy, go him, but when you have to book around the popularity of your other stars, like Daniel Bryan, and send out one of your biggest legends, IE The Rock, just to try and get people behind him there is a serious issue.
Look personally I like Reigns, he's a power guy but because of his time with the shield and how he carries himself when he's not on the mic I've some what became a fan. That said he is far from ready for a world title shot, especially one at Wrestlemania. Even if Daniel Bryan wasn't in the match and it was made known before hand that 100% Daniel Bryan would not of been in it the fans would of still booed Reigns like they did. Why? Because it's plain to see Reigns isn't ready and if you don't include Daniel Bryan in the Royal Rumble there where 2 people who could make an argument for deserving the spot more, Dolph Ziggler and Dean Ambrose.
Frankly I feel either of those two would of made much better stories than Reigns would. Dolph has the underdog thing going for him, and was on a damn good streak prior to his getting fired thing, and Heyman being able to sell Brocks match with things like "sure Dolph you beat 3 guys at Survivor Series but none of them where Brock Lesnar" and other kinds of exchanges would of been great to hear. Fans would of been massively behind Dolph, much like they already are, and the underdog element would of made sense with him.
Dean has the unstable and unpredictable element to his character and that is something we haven't seen Lesnar ever have to deal with. You could have RAW segments where Ambrose crazy behavior gets him the upper hand on Brock, to show potential he would catch Brock by surprise, but in the end have Brock's power win out to again paint Ambrose has a believable underdog.
Instead they are going to take a guy like Reigns who they want to sell as one of the biggest badasses on the planet and make him look like an underdog, and while to Lesnar he may be, it's a role that just doesn't suit him.
WWE really needs to learn that not all baby faces need to be underdogs and not all heels need to be cowards, Lesnar and Triple H seem to be the only heels that don't act like chicken shit during their matches.
Ok I'm about to take this from a rant about the RR to a rant about idiotic WWE booking so I'll just stop now.
Look personally I like Reigns, he's a power guy but because of his time with the shield and how he carries himself when he's not on the mic I've some what became a fan. That said he is far from ready for a world title shot, especially one at Wrestlemania. Even if Daniel Bryan wasn't in the match and it was made known before hand that 100% Daniel Bryan would not of been in it the fans would of still booed Reigns like they did. Why? Because it's plain to see Reigns isn't ready and if you don't include Daniel Bryan in the Royal Rumble there where 2 people who could make an argument for deserving the spot more, Dolph Ziggler and Dean Ambrose.
Frankly I feel either of those two would of made much better stories than Reigns would. Dolph has the underdog thing going for him, and was on a damn good streak prior to his getting fired thing, and Heyman being able to sell Brocks match with things like "sure Dolph you beat 3 guys at Survivor Series but none of them where Brock Lesnar" and other kinds of exchanges would of been great to hear. Fans would of been massively behind Dolph, much like they already are, and the underdog element would of made sense with him.
Dean has the unstable and unpredictable element to his character and that is something we haven't seen Lesnar ever have to deal with. You could have RAW segments where Ambrose crazy behavior gets him the upper hand on Brock, to show potential he would catch Brock by surprise, but in the end have Brock's power win out to again paint Ambrose has a believable underdog.
Instead they are going to take a guy like Reigns who they want to sell as one of the biggest badasses on the planet and make him look like an underdog, and while to Lesnar he may be, it's a role that just doesn't suit him.
WWE really needs to learn that not all baby faces need to be underdogs and not all heels need to be cowards, Lesnar and Triple H seem to be the only heels that don't act like chicken shit during their matches.
Ok I'm about to take this from a rant about the RR to a rant about idiotic WWE booking so I'll just stop now.
Lesnar is a fucking animal. Seeing him match up and lose to Bryan would be a little ridiculous imo. Especially if DB goes for submissions or tries to out wrestle Lesnar during the match.
Hopefully, Reigns just turns into a wrecking machine. Cut out the stupid promos and just be an intense ass kicker..
Unfortunately, for Reigns fans have already made up their minds instead of giving it chance. They could do a good job and a lot of fans will still crap all over it.
I've been watching Reigns wrestle since he came into NXT. Please tell me you're not serious. He's a big muscular guy, but seeing how easily Lesnar took care of both Cena and Rollins tonight makes me wonder. Just going by what you see Reigns do in the ring, do you really think he has a chance against someone like Lesnar? I mean I know wrestling is scripted, but you can only suspend your disbelief for so long before it's to the point of ridiculous.
I have no problem with them bringing him back before Rumble and putting him in it.
What I have issue with is where he came in and how quickly he was eliminated. No, I don't think he should have won it. But you could have let him stay in longer and eventually built something that develops into a future story.
What I have issue with is where he came in and how quickly he was eliminated. No, I don't think he should have won it. But you could have let him stay in longer and eventually built something that develops into a future story.
I've been watching Reigns wrestle since he came into NXT. Please tell me you're not serious. He's a big muscular guy, but seeing how easily Lesnar took care of both Cena and Rollins tonight makes me wonder. Just going by what you see Reigns do in the ring, do you really think he has a chance against someone like Lesnar? I mean I know wrestling is scripted, but you can only suspend your disbelief for so long before it's to the point of ridiculous.
Great points. I mean I am all for Lesnar being a ridiculous beast, but between the Cena demolition at SummerSlam following the destruction of the Undertaker's streak and then tonight...
Reigns can't beat him unless there's some sort of interference involved.
Maybe WWE knows something about Lesnar we don't. Maybe he's not going back to UFC after WrestleMania and he's walking out of Levi's Stadium with the belt.
Problems is, there doesn't appear to be anyone on the roster who can beat Lesnar 1-on-1 based on the monster they created.
I've been watching Reigns wrestle since he came into NXT. Please tell me you're not serious. He's a big muscular guy, but seeing how easily Lesnar took care of both Cena and Rollins tonight makes me wonder. Just going by what you see Reigns do in the ring, do you really think he has a chance against someone like Lesnar? I mean I know wrestling is scripted, but you can only suspend your disbelief for so long before it's to the point of ridiculous.
It's much more believable than Bryan beating Lesnar.
It's much more believable than Bryan beating Lesnar.
At least Daniel Bryan has technical skills that Reigns doesn't have. He's a fantastic in ring worker, and I do believe that if he can stay away from Lesnar long enough he can wear him down. Reigns is powerful and fast, but not as agile as Bryan is, and when Lesnar gets his mitts around him, it will be a replay of Summerslam all over again.
chicagokmc
Getting Noticed By Management
It's much more believable than Bryan beating Lesnar.
This was my other reason for not wanting Bryan back against the champion. Was it a mistake for WWE to make Lesnar into such a monster? Probably. But it's done now and to see Cena repeatedly fail, Rollins and others fail but to have Bryan succeed (along with defeating HHH, Orton and Batista in one night the year before)? You'd have Super Daniel Bryan created right there on the spot.
I agree that Reigns probably isn't ready and it looks like possibly another Batista situation having someone pushed into our faces. I just also think that there could be another time for Bryan that isn't this year.
stingray11214
Cena is no Bruno & Cole is no Solie
Look, what they should have done is have Rollins beat Lesnar and Cena tonight, defeat Orton at Fast Lane, and then drop the belt to Daniel Bryan in an epic WM that would have printed money, sold Network subscriptions up the ying-yang, and would have finally showed that WWE can create new stars. What we now have is a Main Event brought to you by Western Union, younger stars greatly discouraged, and a cratering of subscriptions to the Network. Give me one good reason to plunk down money for an event that we already know the outcome of?
StunningBlackMamba24
Savior of Unwashed IWC\\\\
They should have never brought him back. Daniel Bryan is extremely boring. Idc what yall say about this. Unless they turn him heel, and do away with his stupid ass yes chants, Daniel Bryan shouldn't be in WWE programming, and im dead fucking serious.
Are you one of those people who can't like something if everyone else likes it? Otherwise I can't see not seeing what star power Bryan hasThey should have never brought him back. Daniel Bryan is extremely boring. Idc what yall say about this. Unless they turn him heel, and do away with his stupid ass yes chants, Daniel Bryan shouldn't be in WWE programming, and im dead fucking serious.
StunningBlackMamba24
Savior of Unwashed IWC\\\\
Are you one of those people who can't like something if everyone else likes it? Otherwise I can't see not seeing what star power Bryan has
WWE was perfectly fine without him for the past year. WWE was perfectly fine without him before he debuted. The majority of the WWE fans are fake. If Daniel Bryan leaves, it'll take them not too long to get over him.
NegativeFeedback
Mid-Card Championship Winner
I believe he's ready too but he wasn't booked very well these past few months so Ziggler wouldn't have made sense. At least when Benoit won it he had been built up for months prior.
That makes it better, IMO. All these Rumble winners have been ridiculously telegraphed. Batista returning to win it. Cena getting the win to face Rock in his redemption story. Del Rio following his destiny. Roman with this bullshit. Rey to pay tribute to Eddie. Orton winning right after punting McMahon. All these guys were the clear favorites and those wins were obvious to everybody. But if Ziggler won, it would have counted as a real dark horse win which would add credibility to any future upper midcarder in the Rumble.
The biggest problem with the Rumble in recent years has just been predictability. Being brutally honest, the match was a bunch of jobbers this year. The only people in the match with a legitimate shot at winning were Bryan and Reigns (arguments could be made for Wyatt, Big Show, and Ambrose as well, but don't give me any of that Ryback/Ziggler/Cesaro crap I'm seeing posted everywhere).
When they eliminated Bryan so early (basically prior to the half-way point of the match) it completely ruined the ending. It was basically 30 minutes of knowing Reigns would toss Big Show out to win it.
I honestly feel Bryan should have had Ziggler's spot in this match (not necessarily the #30 spot, but the exit position). Have Big Show knock him out, dump him over, and play it up to the crowd.
When they eliminated Bryan so early (basically prior to the half-way point of the match) it completely ruined the ending. It was basically 30 minutes of knowing Reigns would toss Big Show out to win it.
I honestly feel Bryan should have had Ziggler's spot in this match (not necessarily the #30 spot, but the exit position). Have Big Show knock him out, dump him over, and play it up to the crowd.
sanefan_har
The Crimson Kestrel
I agree with derkman7, the predictability of a Royal Rumble doesn't help promote itself. Before they added a stipulation to the match, the Rumble was fun to watch. Duggan and Studd won the rumble and it didn't matter at all in the grand scheme of things. Now because of the "winner gets a title shot" stipulation, it becomes harder to believe "anyone" could win it. The 1994 finish to the Rumble was the stupidest in my opinion, however it made at least a modicum of sense in terms of Kayfabe and booking logic. Tonight's ending had the sole purpose of showing us Vince McMahon is still living inside his head. Like everyone else has pointed out, you know there's something wrong when even The Rock (waste of an appearance in my opinion) got jeered when alongside Reigns.
The biggest problem with the Rumble in recent years has just been predictability. Being brutally honest, the match was a bunch of jobbers this year. The only people in the match with a legitimate shot at winning were Bryan and Reigns (arguments could be made for Wyatt, Big Show, and Ambrose as well, but don't give me any of that Ryback/Ziggler/Cesaro crap I'm seeing posted everywhere).
When they eliminated Bryan so early (basically prior to the half-way point of the match) it completely ruined the ending. It was basically 30 minutes of knowing Reigns would toss Big Show out to win it.
I honestly feel Bryan should have had Ziggler's spot in this match (not necessarily the #30 spot, but the exit position). Have Big Show knock him out, dump him over, and play it up to the crowd.
This actually shows the problems associated with the lack of build for the Rumble match in the weeks leading up to it. Everyone says that the Ruble sells itself and WWE doesn't need to focus on its build-up too much. But come the Rumble match the flaws attached to this thinking begins to show.
Most of the participants in the match hadn't even once mentioned being in the Rumble and wanting to win it or talked about their dream of headlining Mania. They had no promos regarding it, no time and emotional investment for the fans. As a result, it seemed like jobber after jobber was entering the Rumble. We knew that they had no chance of winning it. Why? Coz they were never once mentioned on television as a contender and given some sort of build-up. The only entrants that fans were reacting to were Bryan, Reigns, Ambrose, Ziggler, Ryback..and yeah pretty much thats it. Why? Because they had actually delivered promos in the weeks leading up to about wanting to win the Rumble and had some sort of story attached to their participation.
Only if WWE had cared enough to devote some time on their 5+ hours of weekly programming to building up the Rumble and letting the talent speak about its importance to them, then it would not have felt like it was a pool of jobbers. Atleast we could have taken some of them more seriously such as Barrett, Stardust, Cesaro etc.
MWRedskins
Mid-Card Championship Winner
yes that's what you do then. when your target audience is booing (who you want to be) your top face, that's when you need to realize that your top face isn't this guy, but the other guy. WWE did TWO things wrong here....1) they shouldn't have put Bryan in this match and 2) by not having Bryan win, they cost themselves a huge chance at building a huge top heel. if Rollins cashes in on Reigns, the fans wouldnt react like they would've if Rollins cashed in on Bryan at WM. that would've been Rollins' Mania moment, getting booed loudly for cashing in on the hugely popular Bryan. WWE can still fix this, but likely won't. they want Reigns vs. Lesnar.....like the OP said, WWE shouldn't have brought Bryan back until Fast Lane, then him losing the rumble wouldn't have been huge.So what is WWE supposed to do for the next few years? Continue putting Bryan in the WrestleMania main event? We saw the improbable story last year. He beat all odds, wrestled twice at WM against top caliber competition and won the strap. I didn't want to see him headlining WM again and I'm glad he's not. If WWE only reacts to audience reaction, Bryan would be the champ for the next 5 years and everyone else could just pack it in until someone smaller and even more unlikely came along.
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