He was kind of stuck given that Ax retired and Crush got repacked as the Kona Crusher.
For being as silly as it was he played it to a hilt and it was he last great gimmick as I refuse to acknowledge Hole in One Darsow.
Why Are Today's Generation Of Wrestlers Complacent?
- Thread starter WrestlingFan97
- Start date
He was kind of stuck given that Ax retired and Crush got repacked as the Kona Crusher.
For being as silly as it was he played it to a hilt and it was he last great gimmick as I refuse to acknowledge Hole in One Darsow.
Cats Pajamas
Serenity now!!!
I've never had the pleasure of working with a WWE wrestler, so if I were to convict a performer of blending in too well with the woodwork I would be basing that off hearsay or just assuming it for the hell of it.
Years ago when we were hearing about guys petitioning successfully for new characters the industry was a little more competitive. Guys could come in from other companies with pull or the talented ones could leave for elsewhere if not taken seriously. Nowadays, the WWE is like a Super-Walmart amongst mom-and-pop stores. To make grown man money, you go to WWE.
With storylines booked so far in advance, I could see a wrestler pitching an idea only to hear, "Well, Mr McMahon is headed this way for the next 10 months... we'll see about it then." Further still, I could send in 32 self-authored "The Simpsons" scripts to Gracie Films and they could give me 32 "passes". Pitch all I want, if it's not copasetic with their vision, I have to enjoy someone elses script (and I do rather than lose it).
I wouldn't say the WWE has built an impenetrable assembly line for stories and characters, but all sides of the ship have to sail in the same direction. Thanks and best regards fellow wrestling fans.
Years ago when we were hearing about guys petitioning successfully for new characters the industry was a little more competitive. Guys could come in from other companies with pull or the talented ones could leave for elsewhere if not taken seriously. Nowadays, the WWE is like a Super-Walmart amongst mom-and-pop stores. To make grown man money, you go to WWE.
With storylines booked so far in advance, I could see a wrestler pitching an idea only to hear, "Well, Mr McMahon is headed this way for the next 10 months... we'll see about it then." Further still, I could send in 32 self-authored "The Simpsons" scripts to Gracie Films and they could give me 32 "passes". Pitch all I want, if it's not copasetic with their vision, I have to enjoy someone elses script (and I do rather than lose it).
I wouldn't say the WWE has built an impenetrable assembly line for stories and characters, but all sides of the ship have to sail in the same direction. Thanks and best regards fellow wrestling fans.
This is a great topic, and there's a lot of reasons why the current atmosphere in WWE feels generic and unimaginative. It's not Vince, and it's not creative. It's the talent, plain and simple. Here's some reasons why today's crop of stars lack that special something:
The wrestlers aren't innovators. Most of the current crop of active wrestlers have a strong memory in their mind of the most recent wrestling heyday: The Glorious, Flaw-Free Attitude Era. Looking at most of the underwhelming lower card in WWE or TNA you see a lot of guys who physically look as though they'd fit in that time period: Long hair or shaved heads, black ring gear, lots of posturing to seem tough. They dressed the part, but they're just marks with abs. They're not trying to reach new heights of popularity in the business, they're trying to emulate others who at one time reached a pinnacle of interest in the product. This subconscious refusal to innovate gives us guys like Curt Hawkins, Heath Slater, or Mason Ryan. The Rock and Stone Cold created their personas using their imagination and fully committing to being a living, breathing badass legend at all times.
The wrestlers' ideas aren't good ones. Let's talk about John Morrison, an extremely talented guy who never reached his full potential in WWE. The "John Morrison" gimmick was his own idea, and it stunk. It seemed to only offer horrible nicknames and catchphrases like "Friday Night Delight" and ring gear that evoked an HBK vibe but made little sense. Shawn Michaels was a pretty boy who slept around, so he dressed like a male stripper to get heat and it worked very well. Morrison dressed like a San Francisco parade marcher, because he likes the Doors? WHAT?? It was even stranger when WWE tried to push him as a babyface with that gimmick. I don't want to know what Morrison's career would have been like if management listened to his other ideas.
The wrestler's egos are overblown. Growing up I watched a lot of silly gimmicks parade down the entrance ramp, and it was always a joy when the guy took it WAY too seriously. Doink was fun because he really lived the role of an evil clown in the WWF. As unexpected as the "Funkasaurus" was, you can tell by the look on Brodus Clay's face that he isn't all about it. Is it so hard to just come out and entertain people by playing the role you're given? Look at Kaval, a guy who won NXT and looked to dominate the midcard in WWE. He threw a tantrum over how he was booked and left because he felt he was above losing in WWE. The current World Heavyweight champion was FIRED from the company prior to his recent push, and he had to job for months to get it!
Not to knock an entire generation of talent, but they're too familiar with the heights the business reached in the late 90's and aren't working hard enough to captivate a new generation of young fans. It may be a few years before we see a new crop of talent come through that has that urge to move forward and break new ground in pro wrestling.
The wrestlers aren't innovators. Most of the current crop of active wrestlers have a strong memory in their mind of the most recent wrestling heyday: The Glorious, Flaw-Free Attitude Era. Looking at most of the underwhelming lower card in WWE or TNA you see a lot of guys who physically look as though they'd fit in that time period: Long hair or shaved heads, black ring gear, lots of posturing to seem tough. They dressed the part, but they're just marks with abs. They're not trying to reach new heights of popularity in the business, they're trying to emulate others who at one time reached a pinnacle of interest in the product. This subconscious refusal to innovate gives us guys like Curt Hawkins, Heath Slater, or Mason Ryan. The Rock and Stone Cold created their personas using their imagination and fully committing to being a living, breathing badass legend at all times.
The wrestlers' ideas aren't good ones. Let's talk about John Morrison, an extremely talented guy who never reached his full potential in WWE. The "John Morrison" gimmick was his own idea, and it stunk. It seemed to only offer horrible nicknames and catchphrases like "Friday Night Delight" and ring gear that evoked an HBK vibe but made little sense. Shawn Michaels was a pretty boy who slept around, so he dressed like a male stripper to get heat and it worked very well. Morrison dressed like a San Francisco parade marcher, because he likes the Doors? WHAT?? It was even stranger when WWE tried to push him as a babyface with that gimmick. I don't want to know what Morrison's career would have been like if management listened to his other ideas.
The wrestler's egos are overblown. Growing up I watched a lot of silly gimmicks parade down the entrance ramp, and it was always a joy when the guy took it WAY too seriously. Doink was fun because he really lived the role of an evil clown in the WWF. As unexpected as the "Funkasaurus" was, you can tell by the look on Brodus Clay's face that he isn't all about it. Is it so hard to just come out and entertain people by playing the role you're given? Look at Kaval, a guy who won NXT and looked to dominate the midcard in WWE. He threw a tantrum over how he was booked and left because he felt he was above losing in WWE. The current World Heavyweight champion was FIRED from the company prior to his recent push, and he had to job for months to get it!
Not to knock an entire generation of talent, but they're too familiar with the heights the business reached in the late 90's and aren't working hard enough to captivate a new generation of young fans. It may be a few years before we see a new crop of talent come through that has that urge to move forward and break new ground in pro wrestling.
JaylisJayP
Getting Noticed By Management
I agree the current talent could work harder, etc.., etc..., but there is some great talent there.
In my opinion, 99% of the blame lies with Vince McMahon and the writers. Vince for what he's turned the company into, how "safe" they play stories and how infrequently they actually give any type of a payoff to those storylines.
Fans AND wrestlers aren't investing in these characters and stories anymore because they know there's no follow-through. It's like watching a drama or sitcom on TV that you know is just going to get canceled. WWE blows through angles with no explanations, no payoffs, or ridiculous and contrived explanations that derive from laziness and lack of planning rather than foresight and great ideas. If I were part of a company going through those changes...I might have a hard time investing everything into my work, as well.
The writers are also to blame. I don't know the backstage back and forth between them and Vince, but the stories have been awful. The characters have been awful. They destroyed Randy Orton, turned Sheamus into a vanilla (pardon the pun) copycat of every other boring face in the history of the company, and cut Punk down to another PG stooge that makes childish facial expressions. They killed so many storylines last year, finished nothing and gave us nothing to really look forward to. The ONLY storyline from last year I can ever remeber was Punk/MITB and he pretty much wrote that himself.
The wrestlers are not to blame. I look at a guy like Ziggler and see a hard worker and a great wrestler. He hasn't been put in great feuds, they devote no time or resources into improving his mic skills behind the camera and still parade him out there with Vicky in order to get him heat. He's buried on the biggest stage of the year now. I said it a couple weeks ago but if you would've gotten him some acting lessons 6 months ago and given him some room to grow, he could and should be going up against Punk at Mania for the title. Instead we get Jericho, who couldn't have returned as a worse character...I'm sorry, I hate how he turned right back into the same heel he was before and the stupid reasoning he "finally" gave last week for coming back. I don't buy it, and he's not back forever anyway. Ziggler is here now and he's great, and it's not his fault he's not a superstar yet.
In my opinion, 99% of the blame lies with Vince McMahon and the writers. Vince for what he's turned the company into, how "safe" they play stories and how infrequently they actually give any type of a payoff to those storylines.
Fans AND wrestlers aren't investing in these characters and stories anymore because they know there's no follow-through. It's like watching a drama or sitcom on TV that you know is just going to get canceled. WWE blows through angles with no explanations, no payoffs, or ridiculous and contrived explanations that derive from laziness and lack of planning rather than foresight and great ideas. If I were part of a company going through those changes...I might have a hard time investing everything into my work, as well.
The writers are also to blame. I don't know the backstage back and forth between them and Vince, but the stories have been awful. The characters have been awful. They destroyed Randy Orton, turned Sheamus into a vanilla (pardon the pun) copycat of every other boring face in the history of the company, and cut Punk down to another PG stooge that makes childish facial expressions. They killed so many storylines last year, finished nothing and gave us nothing to really look forward to. The ONLY storyline from last year I can ever remeber was Punk/MITB and he pretty much wrote that himself.
The wrestlers are not to blame. I look at a guy like Ziggler and see a hard worker and a great wrestler. He hasn't been put in great feuds, they devote no time or resources into improving his mic skills behind the camera and still parade him out there with Vicky in order to get him heat. He's buried on the biggest stage of the year now. I said it a couple weeks ago but if you would've gotten him some acting lessons 6 months ago and given him some room to grow, he could and should be going up against Punk at Mania for the title. Instead we get Jericho, who couldn't have returned as a worse character...I'm sorry, I hate how he turned right back into the same heel he was before and the stupid reasoning he "finally" gave last week for coming back. I don't buy it, and he's not back forever anyway. Ziggler is here now and he's great, and it's not his fault he's not a superstar yet.
deprice659
Dark Match Jobber
Austin, Jericho, and now Punk all went on candid interview basically saying that today's crop of wrestlers by and large lack imagination to make their own characters, the talent to cut their own promos, or the guts to tell Vince or creative they have a different idea or disagree. My problem with a lot of fans is that they put too much blame on Creative. Creative sucks. I agree. But watch Punk's recent candid interview (wish I had a link).
Punk says that when the writers give the wrestlers a script its is ALWAYS just a suggestion and guys can disagree or put their own spin on it or do it differently. He was very explicit in saying that this goes for all the wrestlers and not just him because he's special, but just said other guys either don't have the talent or the guts to do it. So obviously they would be taking a big risk b/c if their idea sucked then it would get them heat and that would probably result in a depushing. But this comment from Punk only reaffirms what I had suspected from my own observations: there just aren't a lot of very creative, innovative thinkers in wrestling right now in terms of making their own character.
BUT, I think that there are half a dozen guys I am excited to see debut from FCW to WWE this year so that could change. And, a lot of current wrestlers are still new to the industry relative to the guys in the 90s who had the territories to test their mettle for years before they made it to the bigtimes, so some of them might improve in that department.
Punk says that when the writers give the wrestlers a script its is ALWAYS just a suggestion and guys can disagree or put their own spin on it or do it differently. He was very explicit in saying that this goes for all the wrestlers and not just him because he's special, but just said other guys either don't have the talent or the guts to do it. So obviously they would be taking a big risk b/c if their idea sucked then it would get them heat and that would probably result in a depushing. But this comment from Punk only reaffirms what I had suspected from my own observations: there just aren't a lot of very creative, innovative thinkers in wrestling right now in terms of making their own character.
BUT, I think that there are half a dozen guys I am excited to see debut from FCW to WWE this year so that could change. And, a lot of current wrestlers are still new to the industry relative to the guys in the 90s who had the territories to test their mettle for years before they made it to the bigtimes, so some of them might improve in that department.
TWJC: The Beginning
Royal Rumble Winner
How do you know that's what happened? I know it's all a part of the story and shit, but really?
Ziggler pretty obviously adds shit to his character; same with Cena (I believe he is who he is on TV for the most part). I mean seriously, just because guys aren't acting like white trash hooligans and cussing and saying shit that doesn't make sense doesn't mean that they aren't putting their own stamp on things.
Also, if you think Vince wanted Rock to keep getting booed, you're nuts. Scott Hall once said that he told vince "if you want me to be GI Joe, I'll be the best GI Joe", that's an OLD SCHOOL mindset. You take what they give you and you try your best to make it work.
Also, as far as the "you can have a talented guy with a bad gimmick and it'll fail" no you can't. that's why he's talented. Golddust is a pretty damn hard gimmick, it works. Rock and Austin were extremely talented and evolved their characters into something that worked. You read the audience.
It blows my mind how many posters on here act like they know vince mcmahon, they act like they know what happened in the 80s and 90s and what happens now, and they knew vince back then. You didn't know shit. If anything, I bet Vince was more of a hardass back in the day than he is now because back then, it wasn't publicly traded and you can get away with being a ******** more in those situations. Plus it's not at all accepted in really any workplace to be utilitarian about things. You have to care about your workers' feelings, even in wrestling.
Something else to consider, look at how young the WWE roster is compared to how it used to be. Regardless of what ****** smarks thing, 25 is not a wrestler's prime. Sometime in the early to mid 30s is their peak. Wrestling is so mental. You have to be comfortable in the ring and on the mic and then you can stretch and do character work and stuff. When you've only been wrestling for 5 years, you have to remember your spots, you don't have the brain space to think "what would my character do?"
Prime example, Ted Dibaise. Great athlete, great look, great moves, shitty wrestler. Looks like he's always thinking about his next spot. Doesn't look natural in the ring and certainly doesn't look like his character. Kofi looks the same way when he's on the mic. Then look at CM Punk, EVERYTHING he does is in character. Same with Cena, and now Ziggler is getting there.
Ziggler pretty obviously adds shit to his character; same with Cena (I believe he is who he is on TV for the most part). I mean seriously, just because guys aren't acting like white trash hooligans and cussing and saying shit that doesn't make sense doesn't mean that they aren't putting their own stamp on things.
Also, if you think Vince wanted Rock to keep getting booed, you're nuts. Scott Hall once said that he told vince "if you want me to be GI Joe, I'll be the best GI Joe", that's an OLD SCHOOL mindset. You take what they give you and you try your best to make it work.
Also, as far as the "you can have a talented guy with a bad gimmick and it'll fail" no you can't. that's why he's talented. Golddust is a pretty damn hard gimmick, it works. Rock and Austin were extremely talented and evolved their characters into something that worked. You read the audience.
It blows my mind how many posters on here act like they know vince mcmahon, they act like they know what happened in the 80s and 90s and what happens now, and they knew vince back then. You didn't know shit. If anything, I bet Vince was more of a hardass back in the day than he is now because back then, it wasn't publicly traded and you can get away with being a ******** more in those situations. Plus it's not at all accepted in really any workplace to be utilitarian about things. You have to care about your workers' feelings, even in wrestling.
Something else to consider, look at how young the WWE roster is compared to how it used to be. Regardless of what ****** smarks thing, 25 is not a wrestler's prime. Sometime in the early to mid 30s is their peak. Wrestling is so mental. You have to be comfortable in the ring and on the mic and then you can stretch and do character work and stuff. When you've only been wrestling for 5 years, you have to remember your spots, you don't have the brain space to think "what would my character do?"
Prime example, Ted Dibaise. Great athlete, great look, great moves, shitty wrestler. Looks like he's always thinking about his next spot. Doesn't look natural in the ring and certainly doesn't look like his character. Kofi looks the same way when he's on the mic. Then look at CM Punk, EVERYTHING he does is in character. Same with Cena, and now Ziggler is getting there.
Because its a different environment, plain and simple. The WWF was run so much more loosely than WWE's current corporate, publicly traded empire. The guys back then were badasses who could probably care less if they were fired and actually had some creativity. Austin 3:16 didnt just come out the blue. It was done with right timing and Steve had the personality to back it all up. Triple H has mentioned how the biggest issue with the new guys is what direction that they're going to be taken character wise. They try something and halfway through it figure out it doesnt work. Not everybody is talented enough to come up with some elaborate character thats going to be a proven money machine for the WWE. Some are probably scared to get fired. Point is WWE isnt the young gun Vince McMahon willing to do anything and everything to get someone's attention on TV, its become a carefully constructed business empire and for Vince to assure himself that hes not taking an unecessary risk he needs to have total control over the talent.
PlayTheGameHHH
Pre-Show Stalwart
Wrestling is about creativity. However the WWE wrestlers don't have the freedom to think and develop ideas, it's a case of "you'll do what you're told, bitch, and you'll bloody well like it!"
What they don't realize is in 5-10 years when Cena is done who will replace him? They won't have ANY established, over-enough stars to take the ball and run with it.
What they don't realize is in 5-10 years when Cena is done who will replace him? They won't have ANY established, over-enough stars to take the ball and run with it.
robinkom
With a TEAR... IN MY EEYYEEEE....
McMahon keeps them complacent with fat pay checks and gimmicks written for them by a team of writers. I feel like there's been a severe drop in high caliber talent in the last decade who are capable of carrying themselves on the mic and in ring "off the cuff." That's what they're taught in the Indies, you have to forget all of it if you make it to WWE. But how is it not obvious when you look at tapes of Shawn Michaels, Rock, Roddy Piper, or Jake Roberts from back in the day that they understood what they wanted to present both mentally and verbally? The young guys today are all interchangeable, not one stands out from another. It could be that I'm just too jaded after watching wrestling for 20 years, watching WWF, WCW, & ECW as well as educating myself on the 70s and 80s... but I really do have a hard time watching these young wrestlers that essentially have no direction or true ambition to stand out from their peers.
Cena, Miz, and Punk are pissed about The Rock coming to steal main event time for Wrestlemania... sorry guys, but he's keeping my interest. Having Dwayne in the main event means McMahon has put my ass in a seat and that's ultimately what matters. The Rock harkens back to a previous decade when I was entertained every single week and he's still got that silver tongue to lead me along. The pertinent question is where are the next breakout stars that can live up to the reputations of guys like The Rock, Austin, and Undertaker? I'm sure as hell not going to be paying to see Heath Slater or Jinder Mahal in a Wrestlemania main event.
Cena, Miz, and Punk are pissed about The Rock coming to steal main event time for Wrestlemania... sorry guys, but he's keeping my interest. Having Dwayne in the main event means McMahon has put my ass in a seat and that's ultimately what matters. The Rock harkens back to a previous decade when I was entertained every single week and he's still got that silver tongue to lead me along. The pertinent question is where are the next breakout stars that can live up to the reputations of guys like The Rock, Austin, and Undertaker? I'm sure as hell not going to be paying to see Heath Slater or Jinder Mahal in a Wrestlemania main event.
Similar threads
- Poll