Who's Wrong?

[Raw Power]

So, people like Orton and Cena get mixed reactions. What does this mean. Are we, the fans, wrong for not booing Orton to hell and cheering Cena? Or is the WWE wrong?

I personally think it's kinda wrong when people say "if you are a real fan, you would cheer Cena"etc., because we should be able to cheer for who we want, and boo who we want.

I know this is a slight generalisation, but the point is made better this way - if everyone wants to cheer the guy who's punting McMahon's in the head, does that mean McMahon should change his faces to badass psychos, or does that mean he should "force" us to accept traditional babyfaces even when we don't want them? Is Vince McMahon going wrong by not giving the fans what they want, or are we wrong for not wanting what Vince is giving us?

 

[HBK-aholic]

I really don't understand why people cheer their favourite heels. It's pointless, do you think they're going to thank you for doing that? You can like them, a lot of my favourite wrestlers are currently heels, but when you cheer them it makes them look like they can't do their job properly - their job being to make you hate their character. If you like a wrestler why not do something they'll actually want, as opposed to the opposite?

 

[Raw Power]

Good point, but I guess if you like them beating the crap out of HHH, you want to show that you like to see face HHH get beaten to crap. If Vince McMahon continues to push HHH into the title scene as a mega face, even when people want to see him getting beaten up, does that mean that he should evolve with the audiences expectations of what makes a face/heel, or should we just do what the WWE tells us?

 

[HBK-aholic]

Good point, but I guess if you like them beating the crap out of HHH, you want to show that you like to see face HHH get beaten to crap. If Vince McMahon continues to push HHH into the title scene as a mega face, even when people want to see him getting beaten up, does that mean that he should evolve with the audiences expectations of what makes a face/heel, or should we just do what the WWE tells us?

I'm wary of turning this into a Triple H thread, so I'll reply briefly. A majority of people (those not on wrestling forums, for the most part) enjoy seeing Triple H. His pops prove that.

At the end of the day, yes you have the 'right' to cheer for who you want, but if that's for a heel you like you're being counter-productive. If you watch the show you should watch it and believe it. Not because it's 100% believable, but because it's better that way, instead of thinking "I hate Triple H he's married the boss's daughter for a title reign", think "Triple H is beating the heels we hate". The show is SO much more fun when you don't look too much into it, but watch it like you're a child again where you believe everything and buy into characters.

 

[Blade]

Well, wrestling doesn't have the same rules as other forms of sports. It's more like watching a play. We're supposed to cheer for the good guys and boo for the bad guys.
If the villain of a play was an amazing actor, especially compared to the hero, we wouldn't cheer for him went he did something evil.
We should cheer for the faces and boo the heels. I mean, wrestling is all about ignoring that it's "fake" and enjoying the entertainment. So why does the crowd break kayfabe when it comes to cheering or booing.

On the other hand, the crowd should be able decide whether they like someone or hate them, regardless of how they're being pushed. While I don't think this is true for cheering heels, it's definately true for booing faces.
Wrestling fans booing a face is almost like constructive critisism. They're saying "We don't like how you're pushing him." or "Please stop this extremely long title reign." I mean, obviously the crowd can't walk up to Vince and say "You're pushing Cena a bit too much, we like him but we're getting sick of him." So instead they boo Cena to get their point across. I mean, chanting "You can't wrestle!" at the guy is moronic, but I think they can boo him if they want. They're not really booing Cena, they're booing how he's being used.
Or in some cases, perhaps they're booing Cena cause they don't like what the WWE is doing in general right now. Cena is the face of the WWE, they want to boo WWE, so they boo Cena. I mean, I know that's probably not true, but it's an interesting theory.

 

[NeoScyther]

I don't really cheer for the heels or boo the faces, but I will cheer in general if the two are having a really good match.

Part of it may also be if a face is getting forced down our throats (so to speak) to the point that it's the same stuff night in and night out, we may boo the face or cheer the heel because we want something different. Well, me at least. For instance if I see Cena constantly making miracle comebacks and always beating the same people all the time I might cheer, or at least really like, when a heel beats Cena as it's a change in direction so to speak.

Just my opinion.

 

[Raw Power]

I dunno, Austin was a guy that did traditionally heel-ish stuff like acting like a prick and he became the biggest face of all time (apart from Hogan). What I'm saying is that, if the crowd is wanting their faces to do "bad stuff", should Vince take note, or should we deal with what we've got?

 

[Nate DaMac]

I personally get annoyed when people boo Cena and Hunter. It's like really? Do you just get a kick out of pissing off the little kids who came to see their favorite wrestlers? If Cena and Trips weren't putting asses in the seats, I would say yes turn them heel. But since they are big draws, I understand not wanting to rock the boat. It's not like they have competition breathing down their neck, a massive change wouldn't do a whole lot.

 

[Viola Moonlight]

As I have gotten older & completely changed my outlook on many aspects of my life, including being a wrestling fan, I really dont give a damn who is the face & who is the heel. I dont cheer someone because they are the good guy & boo the bad guy. I dont have any reaction to individual entrances at all.

All I care about is the wrestling & how this is fused/intertwinned with the entertainment aspect of the business. How wrestlers are able to work week in week out & provide solid ethics for great shows & matches.

For myself, I cant believe how many people on these forum type websites take a disliking to Rey Mysterio or Jeff Hardy being spot monkeys. There is more than one style of professional wrestling. Khali on the other hand, doesnt really have any talent per say. He is still under contract for the same reasons as Kozlov, fan followings in other countries. So I would cheer Hardy & Mysterio, yet boo Khali.

It all relies on the quality of the product for me as to whether I should boo or cheer. WWE just provides us with guidelines with heels & faces to depict fueds, storylines & matches.

Besides, WWE has a better crowd reaction than TNA. Over there, if your not in or associated with the MEM [or the Beautiful People] than your a face apparently.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Let's say your kid started watching wrestling for the time. He sees Chris Jericho or Randy Orton on the TV and says that he or she likes that wresters. So your kids starts cheering Orton and Jericho everytime they come on even though they're heels. So would you tell your kid that you're not supposed to cheer for them with the risk of turning them off wrestling? Or would you help your kid find faces that they are interested in?

Me personally, I think fans cheering heels and booing faces severely hurts the faces more. I believe it's harder to be a heel than a face then if you can't make people boo you, you're not doing your job. Everybody shits on JBL a lot but the fans never did something like they do for Orton or Edge- cheer for him.

 

[Raw Power]

I feel that the WWE regressed massively from the Austin/Bret Hart times when the heel/face line was pretty blurred, and pretty fluid depending on where the show was. Instead of running with this concept, they've blatantly gone back to what they started with - really defined faces and heels doing stereotypical things. Maybe it's McMahon getting older and stuck in his ways, but they could've really ran with a more fluid alignment concept and generally evolved pro-wrestling further - but, as we know, pro-wrestling is far more concerned with tradition than with change.

 

[Motor City Mayhem]

I think both are wrong. Because look at facts, WWE wants people to hate really hate heels, and Heels really want you to hate them, now ofcoarse people like Heels like if John Cena turned we would all love him but wed boo him because hes heel. The make of a good heel is when your getting bood outta the building and I think that people should wether or not you like them because if a heel is getting cheered then it meens he isnt doin his job.(Exeption to SCSA and tripz)So in that respect the Fans are wrong because we dont do are part in persuing the storyline by booing the bad and cheering the good BUT it is understandible because well yes John cena is getting stale,and that from me is alot because I will back him up 100% in any discussion but its true.

WWE is also wrong, look if people are booing a face then make him heel, get the hint and just do it, I know although everyone wants Cena Heel but listen to his crow pop when he comes out 80% of the building goes crazy so I can understand that its a little hard to turn him plus cash cow. And WWE has done it before, Triple H everytime he tried heel hed get cheered into being Face.But look if WWE wont change face-heelz and dont listen to fans then there wrong because if people want to see Orton face and cena heel and there not doing it then whats the point?

 

[tLight]

I remember Orton saying in an interview that fans cheer him so much sometimes its hard for him not to smile. He's fucking awesome, he's one of the best wrestlers in the business today. He doesnt have the title for no reason, he has it because he is the best the WWE has to offer on Raw.

As far as Cena goes its the same thing, theres going to be a group of people at every show that hates him, but for what the mans done for the business you cant be a true fan and hate John Cena. I couldnt stand him up until Royal Rumble 2007 when he faught Umaga. After that match he started to grow on me, and now I find him enjoyable to watch, sure his matches are mostly the same (but so were Hogans, and I bet you'd mark out if he came down to the ring on any given monday) but he's keeping people interested in the WWE.

You can love or hate either one of them, but I know for damn sure next live event I go to, Ill be cheering for both of them, and booing the piss out of Triple H. Actually I cheer for everyone, whos not Triple H

 

[Slyfox696]

For myself, I cant believe how many people on these forum type websites take a disliking to Rey Mysterio or Jeff Hardy being spot monkeys. There is more than one style of professional wrestling.

LOL

There ARE many different styles of pro wrestling, but spot monkey is not one of them, at least not one that can be used to put on good wrestling. But, then again, you'd have to actually know what a spotmonkey is to understand why.

And, you obviously don't understand what a spotmonkey is if you think Rey Mysterio is one.

I feel that the WWE regressed massively from the Austin/Bret Hart times when the heel/face line was pretty blurred, and pretty fluid depending on where the show was. Instead of running with this concept, they've blatantly gone back to what they started with - really defined faces and heels doing stereotypical things. Maybe it's McMahon getting older and stuck in his ways, but they could've really ran with a more fluid alignment concept and generally evolved pro-wrestling further - but, as we know, pro-wrestling is far more concerned with tradition than with change.

I think the WWE regressed when they blurred the lines of heel and face. Pro wrestling exists upon one basic premise...Good vs. Evil, and Good beating Evil. Just like millions of movies, the human race wants to see Good beat Evil, but only after Evil makes it look like they will be victorious.

Good vs. Evil is what draws. Now, I know some shortsighted person will mention the Attitude Era, so I'll just make a pre-emptive strike and point out that the Attitude Era didn't draw because of wrestling, it drew because of sex, sleaze and shock tv. Not wrestling.

For wrestling to draw, you have to have Good vs. Evil. The biggest problem that the WWE (and TNA) have today is the lack of realism in the product. They do Good vs. Evil, but the realism isn't there, especially in the in-ring product.

 

[stillboy21]

Its not wrong to like a heel, but if you really want to vocally motivate them then boo to them don't cheer. They want to hear the boos and the jeers, that means they're doing there job. So cheering for your favorite heel is ineffective when they live on the hate.

 

[Smart Mark]

No one is wrong when it comes who who is getting cheered. Fans should cheer for who ever they like and what ever they like. People cheered when orton punted mcmahon because the fans don't like mcmahon(he's always a heel when ever he use's him self in story lines so he cant get a face reaction for one night). Its been clear since stone cold and the rock and even guys like eddie guerrero and chris jerico that people like faces with more depth, ones who will break the rules or be a smart ass or what ever. John Cena gets booed because to an older wrestling fan he's boring, he has no depth to his character what so ever, when the pg erra entered Cena was kinda screwed because his rapper gimmick that got him over and where he'd do freestyles insulting every one and any one who was around is no longer appropriate. People cheer Edge because hes cocky, arrogant, funny, and does what it takes to get to the top, thats more like the faces of the 90's like the rock.

If any body's wrong its creative, or the wrestler, its sort of a gray area. A wrestler like Chris Jerico knows how to really have a crowd hate him. He dropped every thing people possibly liked about his character including fast passed flashy moves and highly energetic and charismatic promos, and replaced them with things that would be boring to a crowd, that got heat. But it can be creatives fault too if they put a face in boring or stupid story lines, if hes a mid card guy that could hurt his career, or make a heel do something the fans would live to see, like mcmahon get his ass kicked. So fans really have no fault here because they can't help what they like seeing

All in all you should cher and boo who ever and what ever you want. Atleast if your booing a really boring face that you genuinely don't like enough, creative will probably repackage him or turn him or something that will make the product more interesting. The product has to be about what the fans like, and booing and cheering is really the only way fans get a say in what they like and don't like...well except for sites like this but I doubt WWE creative cares what we have to say on here.

 

[Ryanhitman316]

I personally get annoyed when people boo Cena and Hunter. It's like really? Do you just get a kick out of pissing off the little kids who came to see their favorite wrestlers? If Cena and Trips weren't putting asses in the seats, I would say yes turn them heel. But since they are big draws, I understand not wanting to rock the boat. It's not like they have competition breathing down their neck, a massive change wouldn't do a whole lot.

I believe the reason why people boo people like Cena is because they know that the reason why they are a big star is because of there boss Vince. It is not because of there wrestling skills. Most of my fav. wrestlers are heels because they can actually wrestle. I only support wrestlers because it is wrestling. People like Edge, Jericho, Shelton deserve support and attention because as a wrestler they work hard to put a proper show. I am not saying people like Cena doesn't but he doesn't need to work as hard in the ring compare to people like Jericho, Edge and Shelton.

 

[Ryanhitman316]

I really don't understand why people cheer their favourite heels. It's pointless, do you think they're going to thank you for doing that? You can like them, a lot of my favourite wrestlers are currently heels, but when you cheer them it makes them look like they can't do their job properly - their job being to make you hate their character. If you like a wrestler why not do something they'll actually want, as opposed to the opposite?

The reason why I cheer the heels is because I know for a fact that they are better than the face. Whether it will be personality wise or wrestling skill wise. I don't know if people realize it but most of the heels today are far better wrestlers than the faces today.

 

[Mr_Ab_Fab]

remember when vince said he wasn't going to treat the viewing public like morons and do all the face heel stuff? this is the same thing but he's kinda gone back on his word and over doin it. the thing about austin was he was a heel he would swear at the crowd but they still loved him! basically people should be able ot cheer who they like i like the bad guys i like the way they trample faces i would love it if orton kicked the sht outta cena just because it would be so unexpected. remember when austin kicked shit outta rock after mcmahon screwed him? excellent!! bad hhh was wicked when he turned on dx woz brilliant therefore i cheered!!

 

[Raw Power]

People are slightly missing the point I feel. What I'm trying to say is that, if punting people in the head and acting like a dick gets pops, should he make his faces behave like that? If acting like a good guy, showing respect to your opponents, coming through when it matters most etc. gets boos, should Vince make his heels do those things?

 

[Suneeboy]

With the over exposure of wrestling on broadcast television, and the repetitive storylines, people are going to cheer who entertains them (particularly adults) regardless if they are heel or face. I don't take into account heels or faces when I am watching, I just want to enjoy a good show. If a heel is doing a good job at being a heel, I applaud his performance, not his character.

I am more inclined to boo or cheer at a live show because of the energy and the influence of others around me, but I don't cheer or boo because of a characters face or heel position. I just want to enjoy a good show, and if a "bad guy" gives me a good show I will cheer.

There is no right or wrong once you realize what wrestling is about. Like Blade said, wrestling is like a play, and the ring is the stage. There is no more kayfabe.

 

[Sasori]

No one's wrong! People can cheer who ever they want! And there no longer is something called a traditional face. Look at guys like Undertaker and Triple H, yeah...

Undertaker: Hey kids be like me and be satanic, chokeslam people from a 30 feet high cell, take souls, and be evil and in 20 years you'll be respected! Not saying I hate 'Taker I love the dude but I'm just proving my point!

Triple H: I was never a good person! I break into peoples homes and scare the fuck out of there familys. Again just proving my point!

But than again that Becca chick is right, boo a heel especially if he's your favorite wrestler because heels want boo's not cheer's!

 

[Ronin]

On Friday the 3rd of July WWE RAW was in New Zealand. The main event was set to be a tag match. First wrestler enters, Big Show, he is playing a heel, I cheer. Next, Randy Orton, again heel, again I cheer. It was going to be those two vs... John Cena (crowd went nutto) and Triple H (crowd went louder)

It was not until the match got started that the Big Show and Randy Orton got booed, and that cause they were doing heel things, like ducking out of the ring to stall for time. The internet has ruined wrestling for me. I should HATE Randy Orton, but I don't cause he is fucking awesome.

Are we wrong to not boo? Yeah, we are.

 

[Razor]

I personally think it's kinda wrong when people say "if you are a real fan, you would cheer Cena"etc., because we should be able to cheer for who we want, and boo who we want.

Boo Cena if you hate him. Go ahead. We can't tell you you have to cheer Cena or Triple H or HBK or anyone. But it still goes that he's a face, so if you like him, you should cheer him. He's face and that's what he wants.

If you don't like Orton, that's good. He's a heel. Boo the fuck out of him. However, if you like Orton, boo him. It's what he wants. Cheering him is entirely counterproductive.

I understand your later points about "Well, what if the crowd pops for heelish acts? Should Vince change the roles?" But the simple answer is no, he really shouldn't. Classic face/heel roles are still intact. Orton still gets boos more often then not. Cena/Triple H/HBK still get mega-pops regularly.

I believe the reason why people boo people like Cena is because they know that the reason why they are a big star is because of there boss Vince.

Yes, it is because of Vince. Vince pushed the wrestler that the crowd loves. Cena fits that description overwhelmingly.

It is not because of there wrestling skills.

What makes them better wrestlers than Cena?

Most of my fav. wrestlers are heels because they can actually wrestle. I only support wrestlers because it is wrestling. People like Edge, Jericho, Shelton deserve support and attention because as a wrestler they work hard to put a proper show.

Shelton puts on a proper show? For whom, the crickets you hear when he performs?

I am not saying people like Cena doesn't but he doesn't need to work as hard in the ring compare to people like Jericho, Edge and Shelton.

So Cena isn't a good wrestler because he gets a larger reaction than those three without having to do half the shit they do? That makes him 100x better, really.

The reason why I cheer the heels is because I know for a fact that they are better than the face. Whether it will be personality wise or wrestling skill wise. I don't know if people realize it but most of the heels today are far better wrestlers than the faces today.

I'm not going to keep commenting on what makes a wrestler a good wrestler, I have already.

But honestly, if you like the heels more, boo them. The heels want it to happen. They want to be booed! It's what they get paid to do! Seriously guys. Seriously.

 

[Pepper Wadman]

The reason why I cheer the heels is because I know for a fact that they are better than the face. Whether it will be personality wise or wrestling skill wise. I don't know if people realize it but most of the heels today are far better wrestlers than the faces today.

I posted this in another forum but I feels it is suited better here. Sorry if some of it seems out of place, I'll come back and edit later:

I like when people's solution to make someone better in wrestling involves turning them heel.

Everyone would be better if they were heel

Seriously, why does everyone obsess over the bad guys? I remember being a kid and hating Goldberg and Rock because everyone else liked them. But I grew up and realized that I was only doing it because it's not cool to conform and do what everyone else does ( again). Everyone on here loves Orton (who sucks btw, sorry, but he can't wrestle for $h!t and does 18,000 headlocks in a single match) and Jericho (OK I get it, he's funny and he's good at what he does on the mic and in the ring, but for the love of God people, he WANTS to be booed. His goal is to be booed out of the building, thats his job!) but turning Cena and HHH heel isn't the end to our problems.

And stop saying "I cheer for GOOD wrestlers, that's why I hate ____"

It's scripted television. You are supposed to BOO the HEELS and CHEER the FACES. That's like going to a movie and getting all up in arms when Spidey defeats Venom. It's good vs evil and we are supposed to sit down for how ever many hours a week and suspend our disbelief. Say to ourselves "man, Cena comes out every week and does his best (which he does BTW) and Orton and his gang of thugs just keep getting the upper hand, I really hope he comes out on top this week!" Instead of whatever the hell it is you do for 2 hours.

And I don't even need to go into whether or not Cena is a "good" wrestler. Because, as we all know, Randy Orton is a wrestling connoisseur! hahaha.

This is just my opinion I guess but it doesn't change the fact that it is NOT opinion to cheer the good guys and boo the bad. That's what we are supposed to do. Forget freedom of expression. Wrestling isn't about sitting down and expressing our rights for Christ's sake or arguing about them for that matter. It's a story where HOPEFULLY the good guy wins.