Is Vince McMahon Killing the WWE?

[iwinulose]

yes, VKM is killing his buisness. by the time stephanie and triple hhh get the company it will be close to being driven into the ground. vince is doing what he wants, not what the wwe universe wants. you draw valid points, people are sicks of the regular guys (cena, orton) they want new guys (not quiet sure about ryder, heard lots of different things there). the ending, easily called, infact the only ending i was wrong about (at this past ppv) was del rio beating big show (though big show was attacked so the win wasnt legit). if triple hhh gets the company and it hasnt been driven into the ground i will be highly shocked.

 

[yoshi_doce2006]

WWE fans can yell about how utterly rediculous, they can yell about how absurd this is, and all that stuff, but facts are facts. WWE Stocks are falling, I checked three years ago and the stocks were over $50 a pop, as of right now they are sitting at $9.95 a stock, huge downturn there. Where WWE use to take business from Monday Night Football and Dancing with The Stars, those shows are now taking people that would usually watch WWE.

In the last Ten Years the WWE has lost around two million viewers, myself included, when it comes to Raw. Smackdown who use to hover around a 2.0 Rating or higher is now down around a 1.6 weekly.

There have also been a lot of creative team members resigning and people confirming (Anominously of course) that the only time Vince is cooporative anymore is when Triple H pulls him aside and talks to him about something and is able to convince him to go another way.

I tend to believe this because Vince has always been someone who micromanages things and is very stubborn by nature. It fits into his personality. Also he is very close to Triple H and even listened to Trips before The Game became his right hand man. So this makes sense.

Vince has long been known as a control freak so the rumors that he doesn't listen to creative, the fact that everything goes on TV are his brainchild, the SLOWLY declining ratings, everything fits that Vince's product is no longer what it was.

If I had to compare Vince to any other business owner it would have to be Al Davis. Davis was a football genius, started out as a lowly assistant coach for the Raiders and now owns the Franchise. Vince started as an announcer, setting up rings, doing the grunt work. Now he is the owner of the WWE. Also both products, Raiders and WWE are in decline with the same guy, who is long past his prime, out of touch with his fan base, micromanaging the product.

Now I do give Vince a break because until recently Vince didnt have someone in training to take over for him, Steph was having babies and being a mom, Trips was a full time Wrestler, Shane left and before that was in the Marketing department, Vince didn't have HIS guy.

Let's just hope Vince doesnt wait to long because the product is declining, facts show that, and it will continue to happen unless some things change.

 

[WWEIsLife2]

If numbers are any indication - yes he is killing the WWE. PPV buys are down, ratings are the same if not lower, SmackDown's ratings are lower than previous years, they just hit their second lowest PPV buy-rate I believe.

Pushing "young talent" doesn't seem to do squat for them. They gave mini pushes and mega pushes to a number of guys and none of them proved to be worthy for the Main Event except for maybe The Miz. The talent they push doesn't get the audience invested in the product long term, it doesn't work, therefore the youth movement is a fail.

And it's not like wrestling will turn it around for the WWE. The wrestling on the show is decent. Nothing spectacular and some pretty horrible matches. Either way, it's acceptable. Can it be better? Yes. Will it be better? No. WWE's atttitude towards the term wrestling and the sanctity of a WRESTLING match is horrible. They don't like it. When's the last time you saw a TRUE, legendary, classic wrestling match that you'll remember for years and years that didn't involve HBK?

WWE fans and management alike might be happy with what they've got going on. Hey, at least it's not a 1.0 rating, right? Right. But how long until WWE keeps dying more and more each year? It's fine now, but what about long term? Does the WWE promise anything? I think not. The talent is anything but good with a few exceptions. It's not a roster you can count on.

Plus, WWE's idiotic train of thought when it comes to what pro wrestling should be is one of the prime reasons why the company is in distress. Overscripted promos. I understand what the idea is and what it's meant to accomplish, but get a clue - it doesn't work. The promos lack emotion, passion and credibility. There's no WAY I can get emotionally invested in someone who doesn't speak from the heart but is reciting what some dumbass Hollywood writer who doesn't know shit about wrestling WROTE for him.

Wrestlers are told how to walk, how to talk, which camera to look at, how to express their emotions. Again, I understand that Vince wants this to be fucking Hollywood in a wrestling ring, but ONCE again it won't work, it hasn't worked, it will never, ever work. Wrestlers are artists in many ways. Musicians if you will. You can tell Jimmi Hendrix to come up with a solo that starts off slow and then gets faster and more rock-like. Jimmi will do it and it's going to be awesome because he used his own creativity, you just gave him pointers. But if you tell Jimmi Hendrix EXACTLY which chords he should play, HOW he should play them, in what order, what's the rhytm of the song, the name, the melody, everything about it - fine, Hendrix will play it, but it won't be a HENDRIX song, it won't have a touch of "Hendrix" in it, it'll have a touch of you in it and you're not Hendrix. Get my point?

At the same time you have WWE writers and management figures complaining that Vince is too picky. They're exhausted, burned out, they're not given any freedom with their creativity, just like the wrestlers, because Vince is throwing their ideas back in their faces, and what do we end up with? Mascots, Hornswoggle, Laptop GM storylines that WWE's stupid creative team can't even finish, boring, basic, plain storylines that never revolve around a conflict that matters and can get people excited.

The company isn't going anywhere. There are no special, memorable moments anymore. No more great matches, no more great storylines. Nothing.

I can go on and on and on and on with the WWE for days, weeks and months. In the end, WWE is doing so many things wrong. Yes, a lot of people watch it, yes, a lot of people like it, but I feel that it's out of habit, not because they're TRULY excited to see where the company will go next, where a certain character would go or how a storyline unfolds.

WWE is circling the drain, slowly but surely, and it's not the wrestlers' fault, it's not the writers' fault, it's McMahon's fault. McMahon lost his touch. He doesn't know what's good or not anymore, he doesn't even know what HE wants 99% of the time. He lost the passion and the will to produce a quality wrestling product, but he won't let go of that Chairman position until the day he kicks the bucket. It's a sad thing to see the WWE turn into ... this.

But what do I know? I'm a TNA mark. We have no say in this, right? Right ...

Right and yet you tell us to stay out of the TNA Forum but you come in here talking your usual bullshit,hypocrite.

I fail to see how or why Vince would "kill" his own creation that his Father started years ago. That doesn't make any logical sense and why these threads keep popping up just amazes me. Did some forget that in 1996/1997 the WWF/E was in finacial pearl thanks in large part to WCW and they were doing during the nWo's run?

If anything WWE is making money today hand over fist and are still in pretty good shape. They stil draw well wherever they go,the DVDs are still top sellers,Merchandise sells like hotcakes,PPV Buyrates (which some would have you think are at an alarming rate which aren't at TNA levels) are still decent,Ratings are still pretty consistent.

So this notion of WWE being on its death bed is clearly stupid and I get tired of seeing these types of threads.

 

[Joshua]

First off WWE was not created by Vince. His father set the ground work for this company and Vince took it to and ran with it. So for people to say this is Vince destroying what he created is nuts. He didn't create this promotion it was their before him.

Then there the issue with people saying buyrates are down, attendance is down, and merchandise sales are down. Don't know if anyone has checked, but the whole economy is in the toilet, its not just the wrestling business. Going to a WWE event isn't cheap and watching the PPV from your home can get pretty pricey too. I'm not surprised revenue is down but when the economy turns and heads back in the right direction, I'm sure none of the IWC fans will be talking about how WWE is making more money then the last quarter or month.

Which brings me to a final and obvious point, the IWC is NOT the WWE's entire fanbase and they never will be for that mater. If the IWC had there way, Zack Ryder would hold every title in the promotion and wrestle six televised matches every night on Raw. There is a reason why Vince doesn't listen to the IWC and the stupid ass Ryder Revolution is living proof of my point.

Funny how most of the posters who are convinced Vince is destroying his own product are TNA marks. Strange how that works.

Last time a checked Vince and the WWE are in pretty good financial standings. I guess I'd be okay with being a millionaire and owner of the most successful wrestling promotion on the planet.

If you don't like the product then go watch TNA. I heard they are matching truck loads of cash down there in Orlando.

 

[yoshi_doce2006]

First off WWE was not created by Vince. His father set the ground work for this company and Vince took it to and ran with it. So for people to say this is Vince destroying what he created is nuts. He didn't create this promotion it was their before him.

Then there the issue with people saying buyrates are down, attendance is down, and merchandise sales are down. Don't know if anyone has checked, but the whole economy is in the toilet, its not just the wrestling business. Going to a WWE event isn't cheap and watching the PPV from your home can get pretty pricey too. I'm not surprised revenue is down but when the economy turns and heads back in the right direction, I'm sure none of the IWC fans will be talking about how WWE is making more money then the last quarter or month.

Which brings me to a final and obvious point, the IWC is NOT the WWE's entire fanbase and they never will be for that mater. If the IWC had there way, Zack Ryder would hold every title in the promotion and wrestle six televised matches every night on Raw. There is a reason why Vince doesn't listen to the IWC and the stupid ass Ryder Revolution is living proof of my point.

Funny how most of the posters who are convinced Vince is destroying his own product are TNA marks. Strange how that works.

Last time a checked Vince and the WWE are in pretty good financial standings. I guess I'd be okay with being a millionaire and owner of the most successful wrestling promotion on the planet.

If you don't like the product then go watch TNA. I heard they are matching truck loads of cash down there in Orlando.

Yes but RATINGS are also down, damn near everyone has basic cable and the ratings have been slumping for 10 years, the economy has not been slipping for 10 years, only around 6 years. You are talking as though this all happened with the Economy, it started before that.

It started when WCW Died, and Vince stopped pushing himself to produce a great product, he admitted in a video at one point of letting his ego getting ahead of him while getting complacent. I saw it on Youtube if you want to look it may still be there. The problem is that Vince never grew from that complacency, and the product began suffering.

Im not a real fan of WWE anymore, but facts are facts and supported by Ratings more than anything. Over the last 10 years the WWE have lost around two million fans, people who have cable television have stopped watching, that is a huge loss. I know people have left not only because of ratings but because I have left. The product is down now, I stuck around until about 2007, longer than a lot of people, I'm a wrestling fan, I like wrestling, not 100% predictable Sports Entertainment with a micromanager at the head.

 

[Joshua]

It crazy to say that "damn near everyone has basic cable." I live in michigan and the unemployment rate here is around 10 or 11 percent. Its safe to say the poor economy is has some sorta an influence on ratings. Maybe not huge but its not for nothing.

And even if revenue is down, WWE is still operating as the biggest and most profitable wrestling promotion in the world. Don't people in the IWC realize that if Vince really wanted to"kill" his product, he could do it a lot better than he is now. Its absurd to think Vince would kill off his company slowly and leave his wife, children, and grandchildren nothing.

 

[Tequila Dave]

If numbers are any indication - yes he is killing the WWE. PPV buys are down, ratings are the same if not lower, SmackDown's ratings are lower than previous years, they just hit their second lowest PPV buy-rate I believe.

I’m pretty sure Wrestlemania 27 drew in over a million buys…God damn WWE killer Vince McMahon. Sure Smackdown hasn’t been doing so hot lately, but with the success of Tough Enough and Raw’s stable viewership, I’m inclined to believe McMahon is not intentionally (as the OP implies) or unintentionally killing WWE. Sure the last two PPV’s haven’t been incredibly successful, but that’s hardly an indication of WWE’s decline. It’s just two PPVs.

Pushing "young talent" doesn't seem to do squat for them. They gave mini pushes and mega pushes to a number of guys and none of them proved to be worthy for the Main Event except for maybe The Miz. The talent they push doesn't get the audience invested in the product long term, it doesn't work, therefore the youth movement is a fail.

You’re aware that WWE aren’t going to immediately reap the benefits of the youth movement, right? It takes time to make stars. Look at a superstars like Edge who spent years in the midcard on the fringe of main event glory before finally finding a comfortable spot amongst WWE’s top stars. Every match, every mini push, every victory is developing stars such as Sheamus, Dolph Ziggler, and Wade Barrett. Patience.

And it's not like wrestling will turn it around for the WWE. The wrestling on the show is decent. Nothing spectacular and some pretty horrible matches. Either way, it's acceptable. Can it be better? Yes. Will it be better? No. WWE's atttitude towards the term wrestling and the sanctity of a WRESTLING match is horrible. They don't like it. When's the last time you saw a TRUE, legendary, classic wrestling match that you'll remember for years and years that didn't involve HBK?

The average WWE fan doesn’t hold wrestling in the same regard as the average IWC member does. WWE’s audience has chosen John Cena as their number one guy for reasons other than his ability to put on 5 star matches, and Smackdown’s declining ratings (despite presenting quality matches) just reconfirms that wrestling doesn’t matter as much to the average viewer.

WWE fans and management alike might be happy with what they've got going on. Hey, at least it's not a 1.0 rating, right? Right. But how long until WWE keeps dying more and more each year? It's fine now, but what about long term? Does the WWE promise anything? I think not. The talent is anything but good with a few exceptions. It's not a roster you can count on.

WWE will adapt, it always does. And while it does, it will continue to have a solid, loyal fanbase. Considering the public perception of professional wrestling and the economic recession, you gotta admit WWE is doing pretty darn good. New stars will rise or be found.

Plus, WWE's idiotic train of thought when it comes to what pro wrestling should be is one of the prime reasons why the company is in distress. Overscripted promos. I understand what the idea is and what it's meant to accomplish, but get a clue - it doesn't work. The promos lack emotion, passion and credibility. There's no WAY I can get emotionally invested in someone who doesn't speak from the heart but is reciting what some dumbass Hollywood writer who doesn't know shit about wrestling WROTE for him.

I actually agree with you here. While scripted promos do aid poor talkers to some degree, it ultimately hurts talent that are restrained by (typically bland) recited lines. That being said, it’s hardly detrimental to the WWE.

Wrestlers are told how to walk, how to talk, which camera to look at, how to express their emotions. Again, I understand that Vince wants this to be fucking Hollywood in a wrestling ring, but ONCE again it won't work, it hasn't worked, it will never, ever work. Wrestlers are artists in many ways. Musicians if you will. You can tell Jimmi Hendrix to come up with a solo that starts off slow and then gets faster and more rock-like. Jimmi will do it and it's going to be awesome because he used his own creativity, you just gave him pointers. But if you tell Jimmi Hendrix EXACTLY which chords he should play, HOW he should play them, in what order, what's the rhytm of the song, the name, the melody, everything about it - fine, Hendrix will play it, but it won't be a HENDRIX song, it won't have a touch of "Hendrix" in it, it'll have a touch of you in it and you're not Hendrix. Get my point?

Are you seriously suggesting you let the wrestlers run free with their characters? While it sounds good in theory, it’s a terrible idea. You need boundaries and guidelines to avoid rambling incoherent promos and confusion amongst performers. Storylines and WWE in general needs to move steadily together in one direction, you can’t have everyone doing their own thing.

At the same time you have WWE writers and management figures complaining that Vince is too picky. They're exhausted, burned out, they're not given any freedom with their creativity, just like the wrestlers, because Vince is throwing their ideas back in their faces, and what do we end up with? Mascots, Hornswoggle, Laptop GM storylines that WWE's stupid creative team can't even finish, boring, basic, plain storylines that never revolve around a conflict that matters and can get people excited.

You’re right, WWE has lost so many viewers over Hornswoggle and the anonymous GM…Look, as long as WWE is prospering financially (which it is), it’s very much alive. Criticise individual storylines as much as you want, WWE is, and continues to be, the most successful wrestling company of all time. So much so in fact that WWE is pretty much synonymous with the wrestling industry itself.

The company isn't going anywhere. There are no special, memorable moments anymore. No more great matches, no more great storylines. Nothing.

This is an opinion. In my eyes, John Cena and The Rock facing off was memorable, Triple H vs. ‘Taker was a great match, and the original Nexus storyline was great. Anyway, I can’t be bothered responding to the rest of your anti-WWE rant.

yes, VKM is killing his buisness. by the time stephanie and triple hhh get the company it will be close to being driven into the ground. vince is doing what he wants, not what the wwe universe wants. you draw valid points, people are sicks of the regular guys (cena, orton) they want new guys (not quiet sure about ryder, heard lots of different things there

Please tell me you realise that the opinions expressed by the IWC and this wrestling forum don’t represent the average WWE fan? You may not want to see Orton and Cena headlining, but at the end of the day, they’re in the position they’re in for a reason. More people want to see them than any other wrestlers today.

 

[itssoeasy123]

One simple answer, no.

Vince McMahon a billionare and a businessman first and foremost. He own's a worldwide juggernaut known at the WWE and it's the wrestling empire of the world.

Vince McMahon is not trying to kill his own creation. Sure, he may be more strict now than before, and the scripted promo's are osmething I'm really not a fan of, but he know's how to successfully run a company, he's been doing it since he took it from his father 30 year's ago and made it into an entertainment capitol of wrestling.

People rag on the youth movement. Well, youth isn't gonna be built in a year, or a month. Youth need's to be built and established over time, guy's like Ziggler, Barret, Miz, Riley, Swagger, Sheamus fit that catergory. The people that WWE are grooming for the future of the company. WWE has alway's been a company that moves forward, and doesn't in the past, they need and are establishing new guy's toward's the future.

Sure, some thing's I don't agree with, some thing's I think they've could've done differently and it would've had the same effect, WWE's PPV's have been very, decent as of late, but it doesn't change the fact that WWE financially and globally is in a very good place. Wrestlemania obviously got over 1 million buy's, merchandise is still up, people are still coming to their show's. WWE is a business and it run's on money, the more money they make the more the most successful they can be.

Just becuase some people don't agree with the way's things are being run storyline-wise, doesn't mean Vince McMahon is killing the WWE. John Cena is undoubtfully the biggest draw not just in WWE, but in American wreslting today, and he'll probably hold the WWE Championship until WM 28, or just before it. Randy Orton being Champion I think is the same that would've happened with Edge, and that since Edge retired, they replaced him with Orton and are probably gonna have the fued until Summerslam where Christian will prbalby win the World Championship back.

No, Vince McMahon is not trying to kill what has made him so much money and fame, just becuase a few internet smark's don't agree with his decisions.

 

[LSN80]

I think that technically the WWE is un-killable but he is definately trying whether intentional or not

How could he be "trying to" if its unintentional? I hate when smarks make blanket statements that make no sense whatsoever.

He could seriously have John Cena retain the damn title till WM Vs. Rock as planned and I bet the ratings will all still be ok

Well, seeing how he's the face of the company and past ratings have shown that Raw with Cena = better ratings then compared to Raw without Cena, Id say thats a good thing. And seeing how the largest demographic is 18-34 year old's, how exactly is Cena as champion a bad thing?

I absolutley agree that he is just giving us what HE wants. We the people (Generally speaking) want the likes of Zack Ryder , Wade Barrett , Daniel Bryan , Etc.... not to have Cena & Orton shoved down our throats for the 10th year straight

Speak for yourself. The statement of what "we" want should be replaced with "I". Anything else is just grandiose speculation. As for Ryder, Barrett, and Bryan, in the main event spots? Asinine. Seeing how ORton has only been a consistent main eventer since 07, and Cena 05, ten years is quite the stretch, me thinks.

Oh sure they (The other people) (Very casual fans) like Cena/Orton overuse but they like ANYONE that gets shoved down their throats because they don't think about it much. You could have Khali & Santino in Cena/Ortons spots and I think those fans would still eat it up.......

Highly doubtful, pretty moronic actually. Khali has been in the spot Orton i where he was the WHC, and he was main eventing back to back PPV's against Cena in 07. The fans completely crapped on it. Noone bought into Santino until he became a comedic heel, and has been typecast ever since. You think those people, even the casual viewer, would buy into a man who doesn't speak English and is immoble in the ring as one champion and a comedy figure as the other? Me thinks not.

I mean , if it were up to me right now Zack Ryder would be WWE champion (Or at least US champion)(If Miz can do it then by all means so can Zack Ryder) and Wade Barret would be the WHC.

Thank God it's not up to you. When people suddenly want a jobber on Superstars elevated to the WWE championship picture because of an internet show he does, that's sad. Oh, and that type of mindset would kill the company.

John Cena & Randy Orton would be on a vacation/part time basis like HHH/Taker are and not being shoved down our throats so hard. When Cena/Orton did wrestle they would simply & mostly do non-title things just like Taker mostly does

Here's the difference, ok? Cena and Orton are both 10 years younger then HHH and Undertaker. They're also the faces of the company, like it or not. Why would you take your two biggest stars, two of your best performers, and shelve them "just because"?

Ughh..... based on what happened at the PPV last night I just totally say he is totally screwing up at the show itself by doing the most stupid pointless and predictable shit ever.... but I will say again that the WWE is pretty much UN-killable technically cause they make so much off of commercials/Cena T shirts/Toys/Video games that theres no way to stop the WWE but yes the quality of the show has been sucking as of late

Why? Because Wade Barrett and Zach Ryder weren't wrestling a unification match of the titles? Again, specifics matter. What didnt you like? Christian/Orton? Punk/Mysterio? Ziggler/Kingston? Miz/Riley?
The main event wasn't very good, but the four matches I listed were all very good.

I remember a small era of staleness and despair occured in the mid 2000's as well and I was SO HAPPY when Nexus debuted and Miz became world champion but it looks like they have turned around and flushed all that shit back down a fucking toilet so to speak.

Again, how? You've said nothing of substance unfortunately in this post other then pretty much confirming you're a smark that dpesn't like Randy Orton ands John Cena and thinks that the two men, in the prime of their careers, should be part timers. Did I miss anything? Nexus was great, and so was Miz as champion, for a time. Miz is like Cena in thathe'll work hard to remain relevant for a long time. Did they drop the ball on Nexus prematurely? Possibly, but what we got was great. Quit whining, and don't watch if youre so dissatisfied.

Jesus Christ, do these reponses the threads get any stupider?

When you posted yours it did. I kid. Ok, not really.

Cena=boring. Why not give R-Truth a brief run with the title? Let Cena look a little human for once. In the past, they way they book XCena has buried both Big Show and Khali. Let Cena chase the title. Listen, Ray Charles, Hellen Keller and Stevie Wonder can all see the super human booking of Cena is why smart fans have turned on the guy. And imagine the promos R-Truth can give while holding the title.

Because an over-the-hill Big Show and the Great Khali should have gone over Cena? They lost nothing by losing their feuds to the face of the company, and here's why. They are either immobile and porous(Khali), or overweight and past their prime(Show). Im not sure how Cena doesn' look human when his won/loss record this year on TV and PPV combined in 16-14, counting last night's Raw.That's the epitome of average, record wise. He put over Punk on Raw, Miz at friggin Wrestlemania. Its the smarks like you that think he should lose ALL the time and job to a man in his infancy of his heel turn, R-Truth that should be banned from posting.

Santino was simply jobber material, but in a small way, there was a
Anyone who says that Orton and Cena are completely over should be banned from ever posting again because they are the walking brain dead. Cena is over with the tween crowd, that's it. As for Orton, yes, orton is over with the crowd better than Cena. However, Orton is limited as far as he speaking skills are concerned, and his monotone delivery bores fans.

I think you need get a grasp on what the definition of "over" is. Cen garners the largest reaction, whether it be positive or negative, then anyone in the company. He's a star, and he's over. Orton is less over with the crowd then Cena, and is doing the best work of his career since moving to Smackdown. At least pick relevant examples if youre going to complain. Yeesh.

Vince needs competition, bottom line. Until someone comes along on Monday Nights, and gives Vince serious competion, the WWE will continue to run on autopilot, which is how I see the company right now. But to all those saying that the company shouldn't give Christian or R-Truth the title. Think of the renewed interest it gave the company when Christian won the belt last month. People actually talked with excitement about the WWE. Ditto the attitude era when Mick Foley won the belt. You need to from time to time, shock the crowd, and give these guys a token title run.

I think this company called TNA tried that, and WWE buried them. I have no problem with Christian or Truth winning the title, I actually prefer Christian to anyone in the company other then Cena. But both of them losing Sunday just gies them further ability to develop their newly turned heel personas. When you look at, say, Christian right now, people still react to him as a face. Truth is still playing it fo laughs at times. Not the reaction you want for top heels. What exactly was the renewed interest when Christian won the title? It was a great moment, absolutely. But where was the renewed interest? Buyrates and viewership didn't increase. And to do things just for shock value isn't good business. Look at TNA for proof of that. Their booking philosophy is that of "shock value", and that's really benefitted them, eh?

But then again, we are talking about paint by the number WWE, the company that books Raw the same way each and every week (By structure, not matches). And until someone comes along on Monday nights, don't expect it to change.

Really simple solution. If you don't like the product you're seeing, don't watch it, talk about it, or buy what it's selling. Simple solution, really.

 

[Kizzo]

Nope he isn't... well not yet lol. From a pure business standpoint the company is doing "ok". Attendance at live shows is steady (some cancellations), they are still the top rated cable show (although lower ratings than last year), and there hasn't been any huge profit/revenue declines. So I don't know exactly how he is killing WWE with these types of moderate successes in a tough economy.

 

[RUTHLESS4795]

I dont think it his ego, I just think hes lost that "creative spark" he had when he first started and when it was the attitude era. Hes losing all the stars that brought him to be creative, cant work with the newer stars and hes just hastingly trying to make decisions. Once HHH takes over, I think we'll see the WWE make a huge return.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I was wondering when a thread of this type was going to pop up. It seems that about once or twice a month, someone creates a thread in which their keen powers of observation tell them that the WWE is on the verge of collapse. More often than not, the blame for said percieved collapse is Vince McMahon.

Like other threads of this type, it's basically the rantings of someone that's dissatisfied with a lot of what the WWE is doing and takes it upon themselves to be the voice of the IWC. In the process of doing so, said OP often tries to give the indication that he/she speaks for the IWC and that the IWC seems to represent the majority of the professional wrestling audience.

We all know Vince McMahon has a huge ego but I fail to see how it's destroying the WWE. Like other publicly traded companies, there are times in which WWE makes more money than at other times of the year. Some quarters are higher than others. As I recall, during the WWE's last quarterly financial report, the company had made a grand total of somewhere around $130-140 million dollars in a 3 month span. Sometimes they make more, sometimes less. But the WWE isn't "losing" money, which means they're not on the verge of collapse, which means Vince isn't "killing" it.

Let's talk about the WHC picture. Most people had written Kane off as someone whose best days were long behind him. He'd been a very solid fixture in the upper mid-card picture for over a decade and was still over with fans. Last summer, he becomes WHC and holds the title for nearly 6 months. Aside from the idiocy of the Paul Bearer kidnapping stuff, Kane had a good run as champ. He had successful matches and wins over Rey Mysterio, he finally got the better of The Undertaker in a feud and had a feud with Edge that at least produced good matches even if the "kidnapping" angle was stupid. And, of course, Kane's promos during this time were solid gold. I was surprised at how eloquently Kane could speak and the emotion he put into some of those promos, the intensity, was just plain sweet. I fail to see how anything was "destroyed". As for Christian, I think he'll eventually get a World Championship run, one that lasts more than a few days. His feud with Orton over the title has been extremely well done, it's elevated Christian to the level of a legit main eventer and it's produced some of the best matches of the year in any wrestling company. Christian is once again a relevant talent in the WWE.

As far as John Cena goes, it's common knowledge that the smarks all boo the guy. Do you know why John Cena is still the "face" of the WWE? It's a very simple question with an even simpler answer: the man makes money for the WWE. That is why he's still the top guy in the company. He's still a young man that works his ass off for the WWE both in and out of the ring and keeps people interested in what he's involved in. Whether the fans love him or hate him, Cena continuously gets an amazing reaction. Now if John Cena got no reaction at all, if it was just dead air, then there'd be a legit reason to not make him the face of the company.

As for Zack Ryder...I like the guy, don't get me wrong. I think he's a guy that could be a boon to WWE. But, at the same time, let's face facts. He's not nearly as popular as the IWC tries to make him out to be. Remember, the IWC doesn't represent the majority of the wrestling audience. Rather it makes up, at most, maybe 10%. If it was up to the IWC, Ryder would be in the main event picture with Evan Bourne despite the fact that neither of them has ever drawn a dime and it'd make absolutely no sense at this time.

If you're looking for legitimate "unpredictability", then I don't know why you watch professional wrestling. Hell, whenever WWE does do something that really does take people by surprise, all the IWC seems to do is piss and moan even more than they usually do. Doing something "unpredictable" just for the sake of it, whether it makes any sense or not, is idiotic at best.

Vince McMahon doesn't always make the best choices or anything, but nobody does. It's time to stop setting such an impossible standard, one that nobody can live up to. Like most other things in life, running a wrestling company isn't an exact science. Sometimes he'll make the right call and sometimes he won't.

 

[WWEIsLife2]

Yes but RATINGS are also down, damn near everyone has basic cable and the ratings have been slumping for 10 years, the economy has not been slipping for 10 years, only around 6 years. You are talking as though this all happened with the Economy, it started before that.

It started when WCW Died, and Vince stopped pushing himself to produce a great product, he admitted in a video at one point of letting his ego getting ahead of him while getting complacent. I saw it on Youtube if you want to look it may still be there. The problem is that Vince never grew from that complacency, and the product began suffering.

Im not a real fan of WWE anymore, but facts are facts and supported by Ratings more than anything. Over the last 10 years the WWE have lost around two million fans, people who have cable television have stopped watching, that is a huge loss. I know people have left not only because of ratings but because I have left. The product is down now, I stuck around until about 2007, longer than a lot of people, I'm a wrestling fan, I like wrestling, not 100% predictable Sports Entertainment with a micromanager at the head.

So you would rather watch a Company with no structure or any real direction. Relying on Hulk Hogan to get you Ratings,which he said a year ago said would be in the 3's by now. Hows that working out for them?

You call yourself a Wrestling fan but at the same time say you don't watch WWE at all. If you were any kind of fan you would watch it no matter what and still support it. Yes I know WWE isn't the only Company out there,I have watched other Wrestling promotions like WCW,ECW,Smokey Mountain,TNA,and if ROH comes on down here in the Fall I may check it out.

 

[StylezClash3:16]

Ugh...this is what I don't like about people. Calling someone an idiot because of what they think and what not. You know, my dad tried watching Raw with me and he hated the attitude era, but after we got an arm wrestling match between Mark Henry and Kane, he left and said this show sucks. I'd rather you watch the perverted attitude era or even the corny Hulk Hogan days than this trash. Also, pay per views are a very big deal when it comes to income, it's coming to a point where they are not even making a profit. No one in 1997 thought WCW would go under, but guess what, it did. I don't think WWE will fall, but I do think it's only a matter of time until they get close to that point, panic, and start putting out good shows.

 

[wrestlingfan]

Is he destroying? Eh he's still making money and keeping the kids happy. his only real enemies are the old-timers and IWC.

 

[WolfNyte]

You know people are always crying that PPV buys are down yet I want all to think about these facts as well

You can get PPV's FREE on the internet no need to buy them. Hell people post the links here all the time of course PPV's are going to be down cause of that.

Second why buy it when you can get the blow by blow on places like WZ or PWT they tell you within a few moments what is going on. Again this forces buy rates down

Lastly as I said before it has once more become UNCOOL to be a wrestling fan more than before its a thing for little kids not adults over 10 as many say. Example my 14 year old was a diehard fan loving WWE, TNA, WCW,NWA, ROH and old ECW. He turned 12 and said dad wrestling is gay.

Also with RAW, Smackdown and Impact aka TNA why watch it when Tuesday you can get what happened on Raw online and spoilers for all the others. Theory being why sit for 2 hours watching it when you can do other things then read what happened in less than 10 min.

Is Vince killing WWE....Is the three idiots killing TNA ....NO!!!!!! the Internet is.

Peace

 

[JBShakes]

"Is Vince's ego purposely destroying when he created?"

Short Answer? No.

This past year the two biggest things any fan of wrestling wanted to see happened..

Kane winning the World Heavyweight Championship..

Ummm...I'm a fan of wrestling, and I CERTAINLY wasn't particularly interested in a Kane title run.

Christian winning the World Heavyweight Championship..

It's what the people wanted, but were both completely destroyed and tore apart by Vince McMahon, because it wasn't what he wanted.

This may be hard for you to understand, but if Vince didn't want Kane or Christian to be champions, he WOULDN'T HAVE BOOKED THEM TO WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIPS IN THE FIRST PLACE. They didn't really "win" those championship belts, those belts are just props. Vince booked both of those guys to win those belts, and clearly felt, at least in the case of Christian, that having him lose quickly to the top face on Smackdown would be a good way to slowly build Christian up as a sneaky, whiny heel - which, for what it's worth, is EXACTLY WHAT'S HAPPENING right now.

Go to any live event anywhere in the country or world..

John Cena boo'ed out of every event..
(But we already know the story behind that)

I already know the story behind that. You imagined that, or just made it up to support your crappy argument. Cena gets a mixed reaction in many venues, gets booed in others, and gets HUGE pops in others. I know it's terribly difficult for some of the IWC "smarks" to deal with, but there's actually quite a large portion of the fanbase that greatly enjoys John Cena.

More Zack Ryder chants then all the other WWE superstars combined in one night..

Again, you either imagined this or made it up. Zack Ryder has crafted a nice little internet following for himself, but 100,000 page views on YouTube is roughly the equivalent of 2.5% of the average viewing audience of one episode of Raw. And it's "than all", not "then all", genius.

People complain about how the Attitude wasn't as good as people say, but I disagree.

The Attitude era GAVE US FANS what and who we wanted to see.

We wanted Steve Austin, he became a star.
We wanted The Rock, he became a star.

Wait...the FANS wanted Steve Austin, so he "became a star"? I think Steve Austin was already a great in-ring performer who put together a compelling character, the fans picked up on it and he became a pop-culture phenomenon. Don't dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back for making Steve Austin into a star.

As for Rock? Sure. The FANS desperately wanted Rocky Maivia to be a star. That's why they chanted "Die, Rocky, Die" at him for the first year and a half of his career. That's why "smarks" like you, even after he became "The Rock" and "The People's Champion", were on forum boards like this back in the day registering the EXACT SAME COMPLAINTS about The Rock ("5 moves!", "lame catchphrases!", "overrated on the mic!") as they do about John Cena today.

Look, you can have all of the lame half-assed nostalgia for the "Attitude Era" you want, but the bottom line is that most of what happened during those days was a perfect storm of two really and truly great performers moving to the top of an already loaded roster. Today's WWE bears very little resemblance to that roster, mostly because there's been an absolute epidemic of top-tier guys leaving the company (Angle, Lesnar), retiring early (Edge, Batista), or DYING (Benoit, Guerrero).

I like the way Mick Foley talks about the WWE product in "Have a Nice Day" - it's a bit like a circus. If you don't like the clowns, you'll like the acrobats, or the lion tamer, or the daredevil. Find something you LIKE about the product, and enjoy it. Or don't. Stop watching, if you really hate it all that much. But please, don't insult my intelligence with this kind of stupidity.

 

[JBShakes]

@wrestlingfan - Me too!

For example - what I enjoy most about Christian (besides the fact that he's a terrific worker) is the cocky, obnoxious "Captain Charisma" heel character he developed for himself while he was in TNA. So let me ask you a question - what gives him a better opportunity to develop that character in front of the WWE audience that might not have seen it in TNA? Having him win the title and then dropping it to Orton in his first title defense, or just sticking the belt on him and letting him run as a face champion?

The IWC gets waaaay too caught up in who's "being pushed" and who's not, and doesn't spend enough time looking at the big picture.

 

[wrestlingfan]

@wrestlingfan - Me too!

For example - what I enjoy most about Christian (besides the fact that he's a terrific worker) is the cocky, obnoxious "Captain Charisma" heel character he developed for himself while he was in TNA. So let me ask you a question - what gives him a better opportunity to develop that character in front of the WWE audience that might not have seen it in TNA? Having him win the title and then dropping it to Orton in his first title defense, or just sticking the belt on him and letting him run as a face champion?

The IWC gets waaaay too caught up in who's "being pushed" and who's not, and doesn't spend enough time looking at the big picture.

Well it looks as if the mods delete my post that you just replied to

Well now that he's heel he can display the gimmick more, because he lost the title but whether the gimmick will be interesting in WWE, The Instant Classic cocky heel gimmick is already being used by 80% of WWE's heels at this moment one way or another.

 

[dfitz1980]

For the people who say if you don't like it, don't watch it or buy it. Well we are left with nothing then. the fan base gave Vince his billion dollar company. then got rid of all of his rivals.So the fans that made his product number 1 are screwed.don't you think he should have a little gratitude for the fans that gave him the ability to become the only wrestling company that is mainstream?

would love to be a creative writer. but think about it what was the last great story line? the Orton Triple H feud. The home invasion bringing Steph in and her getting the ddt from Orton. That storyline had a great feel to it.

 

[wrestlingfan]

For the people who say if you don't like it, don't watch it or buy it. Well we are left with nothing then. the fan base gave Vince his billion dollar company. then got rid of all of his rivals.So the fans that made his product number 1 are screwed.don't you think he should have a little gratitude for the fans that gave him the ability to become the only wrestling company that is mainstream?

It depends. Most of Vince's old fans have grown out of wrestling and started watching other sports and MMA/Boxing. Even though statistics have proven only 20% of the people who watch RAW are under 18, most of the merchandise sales and fans for the future are KIDS. Gratitude for the fans that made him mainstream? Most of those old fans are now apart of the IWC, and Vince sees them as irrelevant. If the IWC really want their voice to be heard and for things to change, then hey why dont you go down to Vince McMahon or Dixie Carter and become a Creative Writer.

 

[Trill Co$by]

Ok there are U.S. 311,593,179 and World 6,926,020,313 when it comes to population so TNA gets 1 million viewers. That is 0.003 % of the united states population and miniscule compared to world wide population.

Of that percentage you have what bishoff calls the ten percentors who is the IWC. So the IWC TNA fans are .0003 percent of the population do you really think even TNA cares about that miniscule amount of fans do you think Vince really does either..no they dont cause we arent buying the merch

And yet WWE averages a total of 3.4 mill on their best show, Monday Night Raw. TNA iMPACT averages around 1.4 to 1.7 depending on how well they do from booking... that's only a 2 million more than TNA. As you said 3 million out of the 311 million plus isn't a huge "mainstream audience" now is it?

So in term, when I said I hate when people say TNA isn't mainstream, I stop to ask you is WWE really all that mainstream? Is WWE really THAT much greater than TNA in the eyes of the average public. Going by the numbers that YOU gave, that would mean no there's no difference and that would totally coincide with what I was saying.

 

[JBShakes]

For the people who say if you don't like it, don't watch it or buy it. Well we are left with nothing then.

I really do understand the frustration behind that statement, but the bottom line is that's just not true. TNA's product, while in no way perfect (or even consistently good), does a much better job in terms of delivering what IWC fans seem to want, based on the complaints I usually see here - more focus on in-ring action. More focus on tag-team, cruiserweight (X-division) performers. The focus at the top of the card spread out over a variety of wrestlers.

If TNA's not your thing, then there's RoH - even if you don't live in one of Sinclair's markets, you will be able to start watching their TV programming on-line in September. If you live in the Northeast, go check out a DragonGate or CHIKARA show. If hardcore's your thing, support CZW!

OK - I take that last one back. If you're so into hardcore wrestling that you get off on seeing complete no-talents smash fluorescent light bulb tubes over each other's heads, seek professional help. But you get my meaning.

If you really want to make Vince change the product in ways that you like, the best way to do that is to support companies that are doing things the way you like. The "Attitude Era" didn't just happen - it was basically a direct response to the popularity of ECW in particular.

 

[WolfNyte]

And yet WWE averages a total of 3.4 mill on their best show, Monday Night Raw. TNA iMPACT averages around 1.4 to 1.7 depending on how well they do from booking... that's only a 2 million more than TNA. As you said 3 million out of the 311 million plus isn't a huge "mainstream audience" now is it?

So in term, when I said I hate when people say TNA isn't mainstream, I stop to ask you is WWE really all that mainstream? Is WWE really THAT much greater than TNA in the eyes of the average public. Going by the numbers that YOU gave, that would mean no there's no difference and that would totally coincide with what I was saying.

That is my point and I say it in a later post that Wrestling in General and its fans are well looked down upon alot and a good percent of the population thinks its a joke and so are its fans.

Then again it doesnt help when you have people walking around stores that are in their 20's and 30's or higher wearing REPLICA Belts.

I have over heard comments that I am sure all have heard..." hey you know wrestling is fake right?"

TNA WWF/E doesnt matter its looked down upon always has been always will be as a redneck low brow thing. Do I love watching the stories and enjoy it OH HELL YEA. Do I know its all scripted and BS OH HELL YEA.

But yes the guys at work bust me about watching it "watch out He may suplex you" "Please dont clothesline me" "Dude how can you watch that crap its almost as bad as Jersey ****e...uhhh I mean Shore"

But No Wresting no mater what group is Mainstream or ever has been mainstream to the general population.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

OK people have bashed you enough OP so I'll be gentle.

I remember Taker once saying in an interview that he couldn't believe how Vince forgave some of the people and gave them a second chance, know why? Coz Vince knows where the money is, in our backpockets.

The guy who gave Warrior multiple chances, who brought Hogan back, and Austin and Bret motherfriggin' Hart and so many more. WHY? not because he is a nostalgic old fart; Vince McMahon is very very smart and thus very very successful. True some of his other ventures have failed but he does best at what he got from his dad, and that's knowing what the people want, and giving it to them.

Now a few points-

1. Kane would never draw and was a transitional champion to build up a mega win for Taker. All this was scrapped when Taker got hurt.

2. Christian, the boss doesn't see potential (so they say). Frankly, Christian is meh in the ring and passable on the mic. Has good comic timing though, that's it.

3. John Cena boo'd out of every arena; and equally cheered in the same arena. The man brings unbelievable electricity to live events even if it be by evoking two contradictory emotions in fans. The man is money, has a good persona, is good on the mic and his matches aren't as bad as people b*tch about.

4. Zack Ryder, all this IWC love is making me hate him. Don't care for him, some sporadic signs don't mean squat. If his popularity really grows, he won't be denied a push.

5. Attitude Era, is dead. Get over it. Was great, but times change.