Who was the best ever???

[relentless1]

Ok, so lets get down to it, forget who you are the bigger fan of personally, who was the greatest of all time between the two men who have done more for this business than anyone else......

On the one hand you have Ric Flair, a 16 time World Champion, one of the greatest in ring performers of all time, greatest mic workers of all time and the best heel there ever was...

On the other you have Hulk Hogan, wrestlings greatest hero, was world champ for most of the 80's and the 90's, of the chart charisma, the most recognisable face in all of professional wrestling....

 

[Iversen]

It's a difficult question because I'd say Hulk Hogan has done the most for the buisness in terms of taking it somewhere and making it a main stream thing. On the other hand I would say Flair's out of Hogan's league in between the ropes as his in ring ability was by far superior.

However in terms of your question of who has done the most for the buisness then it has to be Hogan. As I said he made it main stream and everyone knew who he was. Flair is no where near the house hold name Hogan is.

 

[Awesome_Miz]

Hulk Hogan just for the reason he has helped wrestling be known worldwide

 

[LoudClearVoice]

If we're talking about pure WRESTLING, then there's no question it's Ric Flair.

However, if we're talking about OVERALL (this includes wrestling ability, mic skills, entertainment value, impact) then it's Hulk Hogan.

Hulk Hogan IS professional wrestling. You can go anywhere in the world and they'll know who Hulk Hogan is or they will have heard of him.


People that have no idea about wrestling and have never seen it in their life, have still heard of Hulk Hogan. Same is not true for Flair.

 

[mrpops]

When you ask anyone who the best ever is the first 3 names are always Hulk Hogan, Stone Cold, and The Rock. They are the top 3 ever... FACT. These 3 are above and beyond everyone else. No one can reach these mens levels of success.

Then you have Ric flair, Cena, Bret hart, Kurt angle, Andre, piper, benoit, HHH, shawn micheals, undertaker, sting, goldberg....basically every other main eventer that ever lived. These men come close to the big 3 but they just could not quite make it. They will never reach the popularity or success the big 3 have.

I dont care if ric flair could wrestle amazing matches 30 years ago in the 80's. Fact is barely anyone knows who the fucking guy is. Everyone knows who hulk hogan is despite his average ring skills.

 

[Miz_Mark]

Ok, Hulk Hogan is my definitive vote, but I think it's more than a little absurd to say that barely anyone knows who Ric Flair is... Ric Flair is one of the biggest legends and biggest names in the history of this business, and you're a fool if you don't think the vast majority of wrestling fans know exactly who he is.

 

[Mustang Sally]

If we're talking about pure WRESTLING, then there's no question it's Ric Flair. .....However, if we're talking about OVERALL (this includes wrestling ability, mic skills, entertainment value, impact) then it's Hulk Hogan.

Agreed, on both counts. Hulkamania was a phenomenon; a once-in-a-lifetime event in an industry that needed one. As stated above, he made pro wrestling relevant in places it wasn't even noticed before. He brought it all mainstream and nothing can take away his impact, no matter how much of a self-aggrandizing moron he's become since.

That said, it must be recognized that he accomplished all this only with the aid of crews of production and promotion people, television, Vince McMahon and a thousand other features designed to put him in front as the star. He worked hard but he didn't do it alone......yet, many of his comments these past years ("I taught Vince McMahon the wrestling business") have led many to believe he thinks he did it all himself. His actual work in wrestling matches was mediocre, repetitive and often seemed restricted only to special events like pay-per-views.

Ric Flair, on the other hand, wrestled, wrestled......and wrestled some more to establish a claim to "best ever." He fought on PPVs, he fought on regular TV shows, he fought in house shows, he fought everywhere.....and he did it for so many years and with such intensity, it was insane.

Flair's greatness was forged from actual ring wrestling, while Hogan's was a combination of wrestling and tons of promotion; both by the company and himself.

Who had the bigger impact on pro wrestling?....probably Hogan.

Who was the best ever?....definitely Flair.

 

[ilapierre]

Hulk Hogan is the greatest mainstream wrestling entertainer of all time. Ric Flair is the alternative greatest wrestler entertainer of all time. To the poster who said "Hogan, Stone Cold, and Rock are the three greatest FACT", you are only looking at mainstream impact. Stone Cold may have been the greatest single wrestler to make an impact in wrestling but he was only big and wrestling for 5 years. The Rock is the best wrestler on the mic ever but he was only big for 6 or 7 years. Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan have amassed decades in the mainstream spotlight and have made enormous impact in those years. That is why Rock and Stone Cold are left out of this. Hogan and Flair have dedicated their lives to wrestling. Rock and Stone Cold made a mark and left. It's like with rock music saying the Beatles, Nirvana and Amy Winehouse are the greatest bands or musicians ever and ignoring the careers of the Stones or Pink Floyd just because Nirvana and Amy Winehouse had a greater impact in a shorter time.

Personally my two favourite wrestlers are Shawn Michaels and Randy Savage. I found them both more entertaining than Hogan or Flair. Not as much as Rock and Stone Cold, but their mainstream careers were a lot longer and they made an enormous impact as well. Without Savage, Hogan may not have had a bigger impact than Flair. The poster who wrote up a list that included Goldberg, lol, must not remember that Goldberg was pushed out of nowhere and did nothing but a streak where he squashed 140 no names. He had a two year 'impact' on wrestling, one of the biggest impacts ever, but he was only around for a few years after the streak and made little to no impact on the wrestling business during that time. That doesn't put you in consideration for one of the top 10 best ever.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

Hulk Hogan

It has to be. He is the guy who led wrestling out of the dark ages and brought it into the mainstream. He was the catalyst and the superstar that brought the business out of the smoky small buildings and into the mega-arenas and was the first wrestler to be known on a worldwide stage as a true superstar. Everyone knows Hulk Hogan.

Ask anyone who the most important and most famous wrestler is, and they will ALL say Hulk Hogan. He was a phenomenon and is still probably the most famous wrestler in the world even 30 years after his prime.

Ric Flair is the better at the actual WRESTLING, but Hogan's matches always told a story and got the fans emotionally involved. No-one in the business has ever been able to milk the crowd like Hogan, get them to cheer for a comeback and get the insane pops that The Hulkster did. He was a master of storytelling in the ring, and even better than Flair in that sence (Although Ric is magnificent too)

Without the combination of Vince McMahon and Hulk Hogan, the business would be totally different than it is today. Hulk had the combination of the charisma, the size and muscle and the larger-then-life superhero character to become a hero and inspiration of fans all over the world. People IDOLISED him, and I have never seen a performer like him.

He was the biggest babyface of all time, and then totally reinvented himself in the mid 90s in WCW to be the biggest heel in the business. The nWo revolutionised the business, and made Hogan relevent again when he was far past his prime. To be able to do that takes some talent, and Hogan had it.

I much prefer Flair, and he is definitely one of the all time greatest, but you cannot look past Hogan when you want to pick the best ever.

 

[sdaniel1977]

You have to say Flair if for only one reason. From a standpoint of the business itself he was and is not all about Flair. Sure, he was the champ most of the time, but he didn't bury other guys with his character, he made other workers look good. Had it not been for him we would never have seen much of Dusty, Sting, Barry Windham, and the list goes on. If Ric put his stamp on you you were in. Whereas Hogan was the opposite. He was the consumate unprofessional. The only guys he ever put over were "injury" overs, and people forgot those when he came back and seemingly destroyed the guy. WCW, when Bischoff took over, forgot who got them where they were. In my opinion Hogan is a big part of the reason they went under because while it's ok to befriend the boss, he and the rest of the nWo took it too far and made sure guys they didn't like stayed out of "their" spotlight. I guess what I'm trying to say is Flair was selfless, even in his hayday, Hogan thinks it's about him.

 

[legendkiller1979]

Allow me to answer this question by asking and answering another question. What would wrestling be like today without each of these men?

With out Ric Flair we would not have had some of the greatest matches of all time and some classic promos

With out Hulk Hogan we don't have wrestlemania. Hulk Hogan brought wrestling to the mainstream. If you ask 100 people who Hulk Hogan, I would bet 80% would know who he is. Let's face it, that number would be far less with Flair.

Vince McMahon used Hulk Hogan to explode the business. Let's be honest, Ric Flair would not have made wrestlemania the initial success it was. He would not have put 93,000 people in the silverdome for wrestlemania III.

Bottom line is that Ric Flair had better matches but Hulk Hogan did so much more for wrestling that without him, the WWF might not have even survived and who knows what the product would be like today.

 

[CH David]

What made Flair great was his matches and promos, along with the Horsemen. What made Hogan great was his promos, charisma, and he had some great matches in his time, or great at the time and haven't aged well because they are the old school style. However, Flair had great matches with other great wrestlers. Do we penalize him for that? No. Hogan had great matches as well, and the stories put out were crazy. Hogan vs. Andre is all that needs to be said in that regard.

Hogan is the greatest of all time, and I'm not even much of a fan. He was able to launch the WWF thanks to slamming Andre, and he had everybody in the palm of his hand. Those drug fueled promos were great!

People that watched the NWA are probably going to say Flair because that was who they grew up with. Flair was great don't get me wrong, but Hogan could have also wrestled a more technical style, he just didn't need to. Watch his stuff in Japan, it's much different than what he did in the States. Hogan was already insanely popular in the AWA, and when he jumped to the WWF and turned face to win the title, it was off the charts.

 

[MMK]

Well, seeing as how we live in a democracy, which means I can choose not to vote for either of the two choices presented to me and instead vote for a write-in candidate. The best of all time is Bret The Hitman Hart.

Bret had the best match of the year every year from 1991-1997. Hogan and Flair can not make that kind of claim for any period in their career.
Summerslam 1991:Bret vs Mr.Perfect
Summerslam 1992:Bret vs Bulldog
King Of The Ring 1993:Bret vs Mr.P
Wrestlemania 1994:Bret vs Owen (shawn vs razor a close 2nd)
Wrestlemania 1996:Bret vs Shawn Iron Man or Bret vs Austin at Survivor Series
Wrestlemania 1997: Bret vs Austin
(*there were no good WWF matches in 1995. I for one have erased that year from my memory. Sorry Mantaur and Techno Team 2000, but to me you never existed.)

What I loved about Brets matches, unlike Flair and Hogans formulaic cartoony style, was that Bret's matches all had spontaneous finishes that felt like overtime Hockey games where the winning goal (or in this case pinfall) could come at any moment. Watch the matches against Owen, Davey, Curt, Piper and the Survivor Series match with Austin, and you'll see what I mean. The finishes come seemingly out of nowhere. I like that. I don't even mind that Brets mic work wasn't the best. In fact, Im not a big fan of overly articulate promos. After a football or hockey game, you rarely see an athlete give a reporter some incredibly articulate summary of what transpired on the field or ice. It's usually a bunch of cliches. For me, wrestling is at its best when it feels and is treated like a real sport. Not a tv show. So I don't put much stock into promos. Thats the icing on the cake. Its a nice bonus, but its not why I got into wrestling. Wrestling is the primary foundation (no pun intended:Hart Foundation). For me, Bret really is the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.

BUT, since this seems to be a popularity contest more than anything. If I am to pick someone based solely on mainstream pop culture exposure, then I STILL don't pick either Hogan or Flair. Stone Cold Steve Austin circa 1998/1999 is by far the greatest entertainer in the history of wrestling. So even on that basic level neither Hogan nor Flair are the correct choice. Neither one of them ever got the kind of pop that Austin got when he walked into an arena during that time period. Go back and watch the night Mankind won the title. Listen to the crowd explode when that glass breaks and Austin walks out. In terms of pure charisma, Austin is way ahead of Hogan, and in terms of pop culture mainstream exposure he's lightyears ahead of Flair. Oh hell yeeeeeeeeeah!

 

[rokuma]

(*there were no good WWF matches in 1995. I for one have erased that year from my memory. Sorry Mantaur and Techno Team 2000, but to me you never existed.)

I have to agree to disagree with you. 1995 was a horrible year for the WWF, but Bret had 2 of the 3 best matches that year as well. HBK vs Razor at Summerslam was tremendous, then you had Hart vs Diesel (my pick for the best match of the year and Nash's career), and also Hart vs Bulldog at In Your House in December.

My vote for best wrestler ever has to be Shawn Michaels. He could do it all...wrestle a technical style (see first 30 minutes of the Iron Man match), brawl (see Mind Games vs Mankind), more fast paced matches (see vs 1-2-3 Kid on Raw or Owen Hart, February 1996 IYH), and could make big men with few moves look like gold (yes you Sid, Diesel to some extent, Vader to some extent, Yokozuna, Jim freakin' Duggan, Isaac Yankem, Razor Ramon etc.)

Let's not even forget his memorable matches and memorable moments. The iconic ladder match at Wrestlemania X, the Iron Man Match (and the Boyhood dream), Mind Games and that brawl vs Mankind, the "I lost my smile" speech, Degeneration X and changing the entire face of the WWF at the time, finishing his Royal Rumble match against the Undertaker with a severely injured back, Hell in a Cell 1 (enough said), Wrestlemania XIV where he could barely take bumps, but yet kept taking them to put on an amazing main event, the retirement, his charisma that he could return as commissioner and do some commentating here and there, his return against HHH (showing he still had it), his entire run from 2002-2010 and the memorable matches against HHH, Undertaker (WM 25 and 26), matches against Angle, Cena, Jericho, Benoit, even the likes of Goldberg and Flair...making the new generation look better and putting his opponents over and reinventing his style and career on the fly. Will anyone else ever perform at THAT level in their 40s?!

No question, HBK, is the one and only and the best wrestler ever.

 

[RicoLen]

I can't believe this is even a debate. It's Hulk Hogan. Hogan made everyone he worked with rich. Nobody outside the business knows who Ric Flair is.

Ric Flair is a NOBODY.

Flair may be a local hero to the wrestling world but no one knows or cares about him anywhere else.

Ric Flair is the Brett Favre of pro-wrestling.

Put your shirt on, stop showing off your flabby great-grandfather man boobs and stop wrestling you sick freak!

People say Hogan has spoiled HIS legacy? Holy crap at least he doesn't spend all his time pretending he's an active wrestler anymore.



Oh and BTW People this isn't about anyone other than Hogan or Flair, did you not see the poll?

 

[gh88us]

There is not debating this one. BUT, i go with a HOGAN/McMahon combo.
Sports Illustrated, Espn, NBC Saturday Night's Main Event, cartoons, MTV, the list goes on, and on. HOGAN and McMahon brought popularity and money into the wrestling business. THEY has done more for wresting than anyone has. Sure, Flair had world class matches, but noone knew about them. HOGAN and McMahon right time, right people.

 

[MMK]

I have to agree to disagree with you. 1995 was a horrible year for the WWF, but Bret had 2 of the 3 best matches that year as well. HBK vs Razor at Summerslam was tremendous, then you had Hart vs Diesel (my pick for the best match of the year and Nash's career), and also Hart vs Bulldog at In Your House in December.

I guess there were some good matches in 1995. You're right. But I maintain that 95 is still the worst year for the WWF in the 90's. I wouldn't call any of them classics, but you've certainly pointed out some good diamonds in the ruff.

 

[rokuma]

Those are definitely some. To further pad my case for HBK, the 1995 Rumble showed how great he was...he carried a bunch of losers like the "Blu Brothers", Well Dunn, the Bushwhackers (well past whatever prime they had), a 300 lb Rick Martel, the Mantaur, Mabel, Mo, and Dick Murdoch to a fairly entertaining rumble.

Also, his IC Title match with Jarrett was pretty fantastic and another diamond in the rough is HBK/Diesel vs Yoko and Bulldog (to begin Camp Cornette) with all of the titles on the line.

Wrestlemania XI with Diesel was pretty good, but his promo on Sid the night after and getting beat up set the stage for a decent rivalry with him and turned him into the face of the company basically. And his late year match with Owen Hart and the whole "concussion" angle set up some good feuds and took Owen to new heights. Big year for HBK.

 

[SickJames]

Hulk Hogan is the bigger STAR

Ric Flair is the better WRESTLER

simply the answer is Hulk Hogan because although wrestling does matter, this business has always been about entertainment and superstardom first and Hulk was a bigger mainstream icon, he undoubtedly gets the edge if you HAD to pick one, but still Hogan bigger Star, Flair better Wrestler

 

[SickJames]

I would like to point out also that the poll says Who WAS The Greatest of All Time. People are welcome to their own opinions, but there's no reason to come in posting Bret or Shawn when the OP is specifically talking about who the greatest between two specific stars are, who were at one time the two greatest of all time and made wrestling big, but now really they arent close.

It's sad to see what both have done to themselves, and they really arent in the Top 5 of the Top 10 anymore when you have so many stars who got bigger mainstream appeal and entertained like no other like The Rock, who outdid them in merchandise sales like Austin, who wrestled better and performed like no other in Shawn Michaels or just had an all out more respectable and long tenured career like The Undertaker

I'd put all four of those guys way above Hogan and Flair now, but this thread is a WAS thread even if the OP didnt intend it to be

 

[THE AWESOME MIZFIT]

Both men are incredibly good. They are both icons. They are both legends. They will both go down as the two greatest superstars of all time.

If I had to decide who was the best ever it would be without a doubt Hulk Hogan. First I would like to say I'm in no way shape or form a fan of Hogan.

Hogan has done more for the business then any other wrestler in history has. Hulk turned it main stream. It's because of him that WWE is as big as it is and that they wrestle in some of the biggest arenas in the world. When you ask someone to name one wrestler 90% of the time people are going to mention Hulk Hogan. Another reason Hulk is the best ever is because he connected and still connects to the fans like no other wrestler has. Hulk may not be a great wrestler but its because of him that wrestling is so big today. FLair is the better wrestler but he did nothing for the wrestling business.

Hogan was the total package. He was big. He connected to the fans like no one else. His mic skills were good. He was one of the most marketable faces in the wrestling world.

 

[mancpenguin]

I think I must be a rare kind of wrestling fan. I first started getting into wrestling just as Hulk Hogan was leaving WWF/E. He reappeared at Wrestlemania 9 defeating Yokozuna in what was possibly the worst ending to a Wrestlemania ever. I have to admit I knew of wrestling when Hogan was involved but it never appealed to me. It just seemed too corny - the same kind of storylines and the obvious outcome. I was more intrested in wrestling when I saw the matches involving people like Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, British Bulldog etc - In fact the first match I remember watching thinking it was a classic was HBK/Bulldog from Saturday Night Main event.

For me - the matches between those people seemed a little bit more unpredictable and the action was more exciting.

Of course he's done loads for the business and maybe Sky wouldn't have bothered showing WWF in the UK had it not been for his popularity.

 

[robbo316]

There is not debating this one. BUT, i go with a HOGAN/McMahon combo.
Sports Illustrated, Espn, NBC Saturday Night's Main Event, cartoons, MTV, the list goes on, and on. HOGAN and McMahon brought popularity and money into the wrestling business. THEY has done more for wresting than anyone has. Sure, Flair had world class matches, but noone knew about them. HOGAN and McMahon right time, right people.

1995...May Day Stadium, Pyongyang, North Korea.
Ric Flair vs Antonio Inoki - Attendance: 150000
I'd say a few people knew about that one.

Admittedly, in terms of the business I would have to say Hogan.
RicoLen: At least Ric Flair doesn't have himself pictured next to his naked daughter, or rubs baby oil onto her a**. Would you say Lou Thesz spoiled his legacy by wrestling when he was mid 70's?

 

[FanSince85]

1995...May Day Stadium, Pyongyang, North Korea.
Ric Flair vs Antonio Inoki - Attendance: 150000
I'd say a few people knew about that one.

Giving Flair a lot of credit for wrestling an Asian legend like Inoki. I mean Inoki fought Ali in what could be called the first MMA match. Flair was great but I have to go with Inoki being the main draw on that one.

 

[S.J. Maximus]

If Ric Flair was in the WWF in the 80's/90's while Hulk was in the NWA and AWA during that time, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Hulk Hogan is the biggest name in the history of wrestling because he had the greatest promoter and promotion in the history of professional wrestling. Vince invested every dollar he had in Hulkamania, and used commercial slots, action figures, cartoon shows, and any media outlet he could to promote his star. If Flair was in the company, he would've been that guy because Vince would've pushed the more talented man, which is/was/always will be Ric Flair.