Who The NWO's 3rd Man Should Have Been

[Prince Punk]

I am old enough to have lived through this(35) that I can safely say in that moment NO ONE ELSE made anymore sense then Hogan. The main thing is too remember Hogan WAS "WWF"!!! That was the point with Hall and Nash they were also "WWF"!!! Those 3 were sent down by the "North" to destroy the WCW. End of story now can we all move on.

You gave the biggest argument for WHY Hogan Made a bad 3rd man and WHY it would have made sense to reveal him as the 4th man A.K.A Ring Leader. 1996 is when the angle took place, Hogan signed with WCW in 1994.... So Hogan was sent two years prior as a scout? But yet he is also the leader... From the point of building into a "4th" man when you don't yet have a third the fact that the third could be a tease that the outsiders have an insider A.K.A mistreated WCW talent, the angle still takes off, You have to remember you are dealing with Nash and Hall when they were both AMAZING at what they did. Pillman would not have made the worse choice but might have been a little obvious, but still placing the third man as a WCW guy and THEN turning Hogan two months later same fashion with 4 men standing tall in the ring still would have garnered the same reaction. I really don't understand how people are ripping this post to shreds with ease when it's got logical booking sense and has foundation, I believe it comes from the fact that today's logic can't keep attention for a two month period of time like it would have back then.

 

[CM-Punkha]

One problem with your story line. Like you said, had Bischoff let Hogan sit at home, Hogan would lose negotiating power. But he would lose power with both WCW and WWF.

What if Vince did sign Hogan (as Hogan had no other option) and then came back as a heel? Then WWF takes off and would crush WCW quicker than it did.

Hogan's heel turn was like no other, no one else could replicate it cause no one else was so loved by fans for 20 years. The only other person I could maybe see having that impact (if he turned heel) is John Cena. And even then, I doubt it because after Hogan's heel turn, people expect the good guy to eventually go bad (people call Cena's heel turn every wrestlemania).

 

[BretHitmanHart92]

It was perfectly fine the way it all went down. I wouldn't change a thing (besides not adding so many unnecessary members) from the beginning of the nWo angle in 1996 through Starrcade '97. The only thing I'd change is ending the nWo angle at Starrcade '97 and having Sting win clean. After that either the nWo angle should have been dropped completely or at least temporarily with Hogan being kicked out along with a bunch of other members and Bret Hart joining Hall, Nash and add Steiner still. Basically nWo 2000 only in 1998 instead. Hart eventually goes on to beat Sting for the title around Slamboree or maybe Bash at the Beach and then they slowly build up Goldberg and give him a title shot against Hart and have Goldberg beat Hart for the title at Starrcade '98. Hogan comes back sometime and returns in the Red & Yellow and helps Goldberg, Sting, Luger and DDP battle the new nWo.

 

[Makaveli31]

The THIRD man SHOULD have been Bret Hart. Both Hall and Nash are on record saying Bisch WANTED Bret....BAD and even enlisted Hall and Nash to try convince Bret to sign with WCW. The NWO storyline was that is was IMPLIED they were "invaders' from the WWF and NO ONE represented the WWF more in 1996 than Bret Hart (Not even HBK), If Bisch would landed Bret it would have been HUGE considering he co-headlined WrestleMania just FEW months prior!!

 

[thebarber]

um, the major flaw in this scenario was that the nWo was booked as though they were ex WWE guys coming to invade WCW. Hulk Hogan was the greatest choice and history shows this was the case. Pillman had NEVER wrestled for WWE at that point of his career, thus it would have been TNA-like to have a WCW mid carder join the hottest angle in wrestling as their third guy. Apart from Vince McMhaon himself, there was nobody bigger to be the leader of the WWE invasion then the biggest name WWE produced, Hulk Hogan.

 

[Makaveli31]

Apart from Vince McMhaon himself, there was nobody bigger to be the leader of the WWE invasion then the biggest name WWE produced, Hulk Hogan.

Maybe in 1986 but this was 1996. Hogan was three years removed from ANY WWF event and 4 years removed from headlining WrestleMania 8. Bret Hart, during that time established himself as the franchise of the WWF, headlining pay per views, winning the WWF title 3 times, and like I said he JUST co-headlined WM 12 with Shawn Michaels. Bret would have had a MUCH bigger impact than Hogan.

 

[P. Nut Butters]

So I write something with the whole idea that Hogan's big turn still happens, but only after he signs a deal where he doesn't have creative control. Pillman is a stopgap, just something to keep the NWO going for two more months until Hogan can do the turn and have the big moment. That's it. Nothing more.

I'm assuming people understand just how many things he altered in WCW with this power. He decided who he faced, whether he wanted to be champ (Savage quit because of this), he could change segments that had nothing to do with him (remember Bret writing about needing Hogan to sign of on the segment where Goldberg speared him in Toronto), when he went on (In 2000, Kevin Sullivan was trying to rebuild the WCW belt and build Sid for a showdown with Goldberg...but Hogan changed his undercard match with Flair to a Yapapi strap match and made it the main event), and what his role was (Nash was booking 1999 to be about Goldberg running down all the heels before getting Hogan and the belt back at Starrcade...then Hogan comes back, decides to be a babyface and become champ again...because he could).

But rather than discussion or more accurately any acknowledgement of what I actually wrote, the response is as though I'm saying Hogans out and they still build up a big reveal and make it Pillman.

Fair enough, people here have no more reading comprehension than those in the comment section and this forum is just an extension of the comment section and not a place for discussion, so I'm not wasting my time anymore.

My vag is quite clean and I'm not upset, I just mistakenly believed this was a place where people were truly "smart" and informed, but judging from 90% of the responses to my posts that is clearly not the case. People here watch WWE DVDs and think they know history. That's cool...but as I said, I'm not wasting my time anymore.

Time to look for new horizons....

The thing I don't understand is your need for "smart". You're not "smart" to the business. I'm not "smart" to it and I dont think anyone here is.

You're "smart" to the business (any business for that matter) if you've been in it and have experienced what it's about. You're simply a fan who enjoys the product a certain way; with a certain perspective - as we all are. But if you're looking for a truly "smart" roundtable about this, go and try and ask some of the people in the business.

Otherwise, relax man. It's only a forum. We're only fans. And so are you.

Even with the whole Pillman just being a stopgap deal - from what I get here is that most people don't think he should have been involved and that the way it was done was just fine. I agree. That doesn't mean that because we disagree how you would have done things that it's a personal attack.

Hogan was the best guy for the job and the only guy who would have made it as credible at that time. Hogan was apparently being boo-ed out of the building at that point, so what better time to turn him Heel?

If there was ever to be a 'stopgap' between Hogan joining it should have remained as simply Hall and Nash, as I remember Nash saying on the Kayfabe Commentaries DVD that Hogan kind of killed the vibe Hall and Nash were looking for. Nash said Hogan turned a situation that felt 'real' into a wrestling angle with his overdone promos and over-the-top personality.

 

[Clopin]

I understand you're idea with Hogan. Personally I think Hogan would leave and sign with WWE. Somehow this relic from the past ( even in 1996) keeps getting huge contracts. And with WWE it would have been the same.

Bus if WWE didn't want Hogan then and he would not have a choice... than this idea would have been perfect. Keep him of the air until wargames, by then you could offer him a new contract with good money but without control and bring him in as a 4th member of the NWO.

But Pilmann as a Third member.... no. It must be someone with more starpower then Pilmann. Savage was a good choice for the time being, Luger and ofcourse HBK would have been the best of all, but that was not possible. Pilmann could have joined later. The third memeber had to be a 'good guy' and someone with a big name.

....

btw Hi... been reading here for some time now... wrestling fan since Saturday Night Main event 1984

 

[smalltownfan]

I cannot even believe that we're discussing this but here's my two cents. Hulk Hogan revealed as the 3rd man of the NWO and turning heel was the single biggest event in the history of the business, bar none. It was the most compelling, most shocking development ever seen and it revolutionized the business from that point on. The original NWO with Hogan, Hall, and Nash were the most powerful and dominant faction in history. The NWO group that had The Giant or Randy Savage was also powerful, but didn't have anywhere near the impact that the original NWO did. Nobody could have pulled off the 3rd man role like Hogan did.

 

[harrythem]

Pillman as the nWo 3rd man? His Loose Cannon gimmick wasn't as over as you seem to remember it. It was too inside to work in the mainstream and, with his positioning on the card, it would've been the equivalent of Paul Roma being revealed as the newest Horseman. nWo gimmick wouldn't have lasted until War Games as the interest in it wouldn't have sustained.
A main event level player, in the nWo's FIRST ever match, was the only way to go. Hogan was the ultimate good guy making the ultimate shock turn. We can all talk about changes to contracts and that but, you generally come across as a big old poo head with your whole "everyone here is stooooopid" attitude.

 

[HeenanGorilla]

If there's anybody out there that knows of a truly smart site...PLEASE message me. I try to treat wrestling like a smart fan, somebody who looks at wrestling from the business and creative side. I posit an idea that only changes the timeline of history and adds a small wrinkle to extend the big payoff by two months...TWO MONTHS!!!!...while eliminating one of the single biggest causes of WCW's downfall which is Hogan's insane contract, which allowed him to book himself wherever he wanted on the show against whomever he wanted, allowed him to change the entire card if he didn't like something, and gave him a cut of every PPV and replace it with one that just made him a well compensated talent.

And the response I get is "Nope WCW should do everything as they did and go out of business less than 5 years later."

I give up...

Unfortunately, fans like you and me are few and far between. Any new idea that requires creativity or thought gets no response or canned answers that have been beaten to death.

I think Hogan being the 3rd man was they way to go...but then he should have been dropped from the NWO not too long after. Once the momentum of the turn faded, drop him...he was a generation late at that time.

But, your idea was well thought out and made sense....which is why it won't get much credit here. The people reading this site, for the most part, are home on a weekday wearing NWO pajamas and looking to re-write, re-write and re-write the same boring arguments that are posted here allll the time. Creativity and brains are wasted here. I only check in every once in a while to see smart posts like yours. Keep me posted if anyone sends you a site for intelligent people. Good luck!

 

[AttitudeAJM]

WCW was doing everything right by the NWO until Starrcade 1997. The debacle that was Sting vs. Hogan began the slow decent of the company. They were still extremely hot into 1999 but quickly poisoned the well for a lot of reasons.

People like to throw the blame on Hogan's contract but the truth is that WCW had no leadership and no direction. The way the NWO eventually fizzled by mid 1999 was a prime example of that.

As far as the original post is concerned. Brian Pillman wouldn't have been a terrible idea if the rumored plan that he and Bischoff made had actually come to fruition. It is believed that Pillman left in February of 1996 to develop his "Loose Cannon" angle in ECW. It was Pillman who decided not to return. If this is true and he did return, perhaps it could have worked. One thing is for sure, it would have certainly been different.

 

[detroitking02]

Who made this topic Mark Madden? Hogan was the only logic choice . It was Hogan first heel turn and him reinventing himself into Hollywood Hogan. Without Hogan the NWO and WCW wouldn't of gain so much popularity . News stations, Entertainment shows , and newspaper covered the heel turn of Hogan and being the mystery 3rd guy forming the new world order. You could of put macho, piper, flair or whoever but it wouldn't of never been as popular as everyone hero at the time Hogan turning his back on his fans

 

[johnbragg]

You put a lot of thought into this, very creative.

You're mixing up two different questions--what if someone else was the Third Man, and what if Hogan didn't have Creative Control.

A lot of things line up perfectly with Hogan turning heel as the Third Man.
--Biggest heel turn in wrestling history. I remember Hogan appearing in a Muppet movie and betraying Kermit "What, I'm a bad guy now." That doesn't happen with anyone else. Not Bret Hart, not Shawn Michaels, Randy Savage, Luger, Steamboat, Flair, not the Ultimate Warrior, and not Brian Pillman.
--Climax of the angle. If someone else is the Third Man, the "Nash & Hall vs WCW" angle ends with a wet fart. (Hogan's turn is still huge, and the Outsiders still work, but does the NWO work?)
--Until they start using the NWO name, the idea is that WWF is invading WCW. Hogan was not only the biggest star in wrestling, he was the WWF's biggest star ever. No one else works as well as Mr. WWF. You could have used a couple of other people who were WWF stars, but none of them were as identified with WWF as Hogan.

Bash at the Beach combined the biggest heel turn in wrestling history, with an already-hot angle, with the guy who had been the biggest star WWF had ever seen. Take away any of that, and you lose a big part of it.

 

[lowandmighty]

Brian Pillman? that's the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard. Carrying an angle like the nWo with Brian Pillman is just ******ed, I'm sorry to say. That would not have worked in a million years.

The only reason the nWo worked as well as it did was pretty much the Hogan factor alone.
Sure Hall and Nash were pretty popular but they weren't the most popular guys in the wwf at the time, that was Shawn Micheals and Bret Hart and maybe even the Undertaker. Hall and Nash were expendable in the end.

Making Hogan sign a contract without creative control? The most famous wrestler in the world bowing down to Eric Bischoff? Don't think so.

If Bischoff treated Hogan like that, Hogan would be be back in the main event of wrestlemania the very next year. If vince was asking for Hogan back then that means he wanted him back and had genius plans as he always did. The only reason Hulkamania was "going cold" is because they were booking it shit. WCW was crap lets face it, it wasn't suited for Hulkamania apart from his first year which saw the company boom to a new height of popularity it had never seen before.
THE ONLY hugely successful angle wcw had was Hollywood Hogan and the nWo.

Half the world didn't even know Hogan was there in wcw. If he'd shown up back in the WWF it just would have been another massive explosion of Hulkamania popularity quite frankly and we probably would have had the Vince/Hogan feud early because the steroid scandal was still relatively fresh.

The fact of the matter is that if Eric Bischoff were to underestimate the power of Hogan in the world of wrestling, wcw would have been finished a lot earlier than what it was.

The Brian Pillman idea is that of a wrestling fan with depth in knowledge of wrestling, it would not appeal to the mainstream audience that can come and go, they don't know who he is and he doesn't have the charisma to make them care.

STFU Donnie's idea of "smart Bischoff" is actually dumbass Bischoff on steroids.

 

[Obliteration13]

Honestly people ... discussing something that happened 17 years ago as a "What if...?" Either there is nothing good on TV, the basement apartment in your parents house is being fumigated so you can't watch your VCR tapes of "Best of Smokey Mountain Wrestling from 1985" or your girlfriend left because she was creeped out by your Big John Studd poster above your bed. In other words you must absolutely have nothing better to do in life. It is 2013! Let it go, man, let it go! I'll never get the time back I took to respond to one of the dumbest, and also insanely longest, posts on this board. Accept the fact that the NWO was one of the greatest factions in wrestling history and without Hogan it never would have hit the heights it did. Just accept it for crying out loud. And get rid of the VCR tapes.

 

[yur_momma]

I just mistakenly believed this was a place where people were truly "smart" and informed, but judging from 90% of the responses to my posts that is clearly not the case.

dude pillman would have been a fantastic addition to the nwo at some point but the hogan heel turn was absolutely the biggest and best idea they could have done. that being said, if the way you see things was so "smart" and in-your-face obvious then SURELY someone, somewhere would have discussed it. to death. i listen to pro wrestling report, mlw/konnan, solomaster, don vito and many other wrestling related shows and over the years, guess how many "smart" insiders have brought up your obvious choice? NONE. i guess it isnt that obvious...
lastly, i doubt pillman would even agree with you. imagine pillman, who had been a heel, walking down and bobby heenan saying "yeah but whos side is he on?!" *yawn* would be the response and the heel turn would have no surprise. been there done that. but hogan?? wow. especially after weeks and weeks and weeks of him saving everyone. it literally pissed me off when he came out i was so sick of it and at bash at beach HERE COMES FRAKKING HOGAN AGAIN!!! i couldnt contain my anger.....then he legdropped macho man....i swear the world stopped. if hulk hogan can stab you in the back then how can you ever put faith in anything ever again? it was genius. pillman was no idiot and surely would agree that hogans turn and joining later was much better for business.

 

[thenextbigthing]

Would it have really mattered?

Not by a long shot.

I commend you for coming up with a logical and creative way to build a new star, but in the end the outcome would have been the same.

Hogan's contract didn't kill WCW, the nWo angle going to shit didn't kill WCW, hell even the Bischoff/Russo saga didn't kill WCW.

The AOL/Time Warner merger took World Championship Wrestling out back and ending things.

In the end, investors would have decided to go a different direction with their multi-billion dollar business conglomerate and the company would have been up for sale.

The obvious rebuttal would be that if things would have gone differently that AOL/Time Warner wouldn't have sold the brand. I would respond by assuring you that the multiple professional sports teams that were also sold during the merger weren't let go due to a "dying industry" or "creative riff raff". (see still fanatically successful industry known as Major League Baseball. i mean, come on.)

The "smart" way to look at the angle is for business. Hogan turning heel refreshed his career and continued the rise of two stars WCW were currently building: Scott Hall and Kevin Nash.

I feel as though many fans look back at the beginning of the nWo angle and remember Hall and Nash as being fantastically over at the time. Nash headlined one of the lowest drawing Wrestlemania cards of all time. Hall threw tooth picks at people. Hall and Nash were still being built into main event players. They were over in 96, at the opening stage of the nWo angle because it was a hot angle, not because they were OMGWTFMAJOROVERSTARS!!! Pairing them with Hogan and building the faction they way they did in the beginning drew a foundation which built them into the legends they would become.

Had they done a "fourth man" angle with Hogan the third man would have required a huge degree of draw anyways to keep the angle hot and continue the meteoric rise of Hall and Nash. Nash and Hall would draw air time due to the hot angle. Hogan... well, he's Hogan. Pillman would have been an excellent addition but had little to no drawing power.

You built two major stars, and you hit the refresh button on perhaps the most popular personality in sports entertainment history in the midst of a wildly hot angle. You know what that did?

That sold tickets.
That sold t-shirts.
And lunch boxes.
And video games.
And pay per views.
And action figures.
And the list goes on and on.

That choice was good for business.

And when it comes to professional wrestling, the "smartest" choice is ALWAYS the one that's good for business.

 

[Wald]

The only two people who could have replaced Hulk and a) made sense and b) made money would have been Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart.

Shawn Michaels would have made the most sense and the shock of Diesel, Razor and HBK allied in the WCW to take on the company would have been huge. Similarly no-one ever thought Bret Hart would be anything other than a WWF guy, plus he had been the man in the WWF for about 3 years at that point, him joining would also have been massive.

That said, Hogan was the right choice. He fit perfectly and played the Hollywood character to perfection.

If you'd have delayed the Hogan revel by a few months it could have cooled the angle down a lot. Wrestling is all about timing, in the ring and in angles, they struck whilst the angle was hottest and Bischoff played out the angle as good as he possibly could up until Starrcade 1997. People, including me, rage about how that night turned out all the time but credit needs to be given to Bischoff, Hogan and everyone else involved for keeping a red hot angle running for 17 months.

17 months in wrestling is a long, long time to keep the fans so interested in the one angle

 

[FlairFan2003]

Brian Pillman ?? He was a career mid carder who's best run with the company was three years earlier in the Hollywood Blondes angle with Steve Austin back when their ratings were a fraction of what they were doing in even in 1995. Other than that he had a brief run close to the top of the card only because he was associated with Flair & Arn Anderson in the Horsemen for a bit in late 95-early 96 before he left. When top stars like Flair & Lex Luger were leaving for WWE Pillman never was booked as equal to main eventers like Vader & Sting, even Ron Simmons got a main event push and World Title win, bringing in Pillman would have been at best anti climatic, oh here is that crazy jerk who ran away from a fight with Kevin Sullivan (his last storyline before leaving WCW). No doubt he was talented but at that time he didnt have the gravitas with the audience for a high profile debut alongside Nash & Hall.

Savage maybe would have worked since he was a "WWE" guy like Hogan, but Savage had always been a tweener character as a face and had so many heel turns that it wouldnt have had near the drama of Hogan's turn.

Flair was already wrestling as major heel at the time, swerving The Horsemen would have been interesting, maybe turning them face, but again not near the shock value. Plus with Hogan you get A) SuperStar dream match with Sting (who had already wrestled Flair numerous times) B) A refreshed angle with Flair where their roles were reveresed, Hogan the heel & Flair the face, which WCW fans cheered that way most of the time anyway.

Lex Luger was a big name, but like Savage he had so many heel turns (and in fact was teasing a major heel run right before the NwO angle kickstarted). Not as much drama and as big as he was, he was a step behind Flair & Savage.

Sting would have been a great swerve, and having him as a heel leading the invasion with Hogan front and center as his main opposition (with Flair No. 2) would have been interesting and maybe created some compelling TV, but again, the shock value from Hogan would not have been equaled if Sting had turned. Plus, long time fans knew it made sense that Sting was Mr WCW and would be the man to fight for the company based on past storyline presentation.

Nobody else on the roster at this time was even worth considering. I believe Vader was gone by then, Rick Rude was retired due to injury, Arn Anderson was very good but quite the star Flair, Savage, or Sting were, about the only thing this list has in common is that they all would have not been as good a choice as Hogan but everyone named here would have been better and created more buzz and made more sense than choosing Pillman.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

I can understand people's opinions that Sting being the 3rd member and turning heel would have been big news. It would have been, and would have allowed the nWo to face off against the likes of Hogan and Flair, who would have been defending the honour of WCW (hopefully causing the fans to cheer for Hulk again, as they had been slowly tiring of his American Made act).

However, the shock of Sting turning heel, however big it would have been, would have been nowhere near the shock, or have the same impact as the perennial "good guy" Hulk Hogan being the 3rd man. Still the biggest name in the business, Hogan becoming a heel was MASSIVE. No-one expected this cultural icon who had created a phenomenon with his "Hulkamania, taking your vitamins and saying your prayers" hero would have become a bad guy. It took everyone by surprise, you can see this by the amount of rubbish that fans hurled into the ring- that very rarely happens (yeah, I am not included the planted guys that threw trash in the ring when Bully won the belt).

Hogan being the 3rd man was the best decision WCW could have made, and it made them a hell of a lot of money, drew alot of fans into watching their product and although the nWo ended up becoming bloated and losing its effect, when Hogan joined it catapulted the angle to the next level.

It needed to be Hogan

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I don't know at this point in time anyone could say anyone BUT Hogan should have been the 3rd man, he really was the perfect choice and I don't think either Bret Hart or Sting would have had as much impact as the 3rd guy like Hogan did.

It just worked. Here you have Hogan, the embodiment of a face in wrestling, a guy who people are starting to boo because they aren't into his shtick anymore and they turn the former biggest name in wrestling history into a bad guy, a guy who pretty much said he came to WCW for movies and money and when he didn't get exactly what he wanted he decided to say "fuck WCW, I'm with these guys now", its brilliant plain and simple. Also with Hogan's initial promo he really sold his heel turn and after that it was off to the races.

WCW became #1 for almost 2 years and Hogan's heel turn played probably the biggest role in that success. No one else would have had the effect Hogan did, no one would have done the business Hogan did as a member of the nWo, he was the perfect guy for that spot. I shutter to think if Sting really was the 3rd man as I believe was planned, good on paper but as we've learned Sting doesn't play heel very well. Hogan on the other hand was just as good of a heel as he was a face.

 

[MCMG]

Hulk Hogan was the biggest star in wrestling. I just don't feel that anyone on the planet could have done what he did for the NWO and indeed WCW. Quite frankly, if it wasn't for some dubious decision making towards the end he would have won the Monday Night Wars for the company.