Who Better For Crimson Than Angle?

[It's Damn Real!]

A short while back a man by the name of Desmond Wolfe debuted in the company much to the smile of minority fans, but anyone who had never watched an ROH match with had no idea who the hell Nigel McGuinness really was. A short while later, Wolfe was winning fan votes by a landslide to receive a title shot, all because of the work he put in, or more importantly the work Angle put in with him working in that program with him to begin with. Of course Wolfe was fed to the wolves, but that's a story for a different thread, and frankly one that's already been beaten to death.

Crimson is quite obviously being pushed as a future mega-star for TNA, one who the company can look back on and say they built from the ground up with little to no help from any other promotion, but being popular with minority fans and being popular with majority fans are two very different things — the latter being something Kurt Angle can absolutely help Crimson accomplish.

Pushing Crimson in this Bound For Glory series and giving him an undefeated streak (where he's not squashing guys like Goldberg did) help, but in order to get over with the majority fans you need to be featured in prominent feuds and put over, so I ask again, who better to get Crimson over than Kurt F'n Angle?

 

[Zeven_Zion]

Absolutely. Crimson is slowly but surely becoming what he's intended to be. Kurt is just the man to get him over. He's got the mind for it and the match they'll eventually have will not only be a barn burner but also get Crimson over like a million bucks. Angle's done nothing but miracles for guys like Joe, AJ, Wolfe, Anderson and Crimson will be no different.

I'm excited for Crimson's future.

 

[JJYanks121]

Probably no one, but turning Angle heel hurts this A LOT. If you want to use an Angle to put over Crimson as the future star, that works much better as a babyface/babyface match. Angle as a babyface doesn't get beaten very often. He's THAT good. Thus, if someone were to beat him cleanly, it would mean a ton. The Angle who tries to cheat and uses chairs and uses other people to help can be beaten because he's focused on other things. Thus, beating that Angle doesn't mean as much.

If they are building towards this, FATAL mistake in turning Angle heel. Had he been a face and Crimson won the tournament, this could have been something where Crimson beats him clean, Angle shakes his hand and the kid gets the ultimate rub. Now, that won't happen.

Granted I still don't think Crimson is anywhere near ready to be the champion, but they may do this anyway. I think though that he would be a good sacrificial lamb and attacks could take him out of the main event and the tournament, leading to Bobby Roode who is MUCH more seasoned getting to be the "young guy" to face Angle and beating him. THAT I can get behind and I think that match would be light years ahead of anything Crimson would do.

 

[Joe's Gonna Kill You]

I agree with you 100% IDR Angle does a Fantastic job at putting over the younger talent in Tna and just like Angle put over Wolfe he will put over Crimson in a BIG WAY and I think he's the perfect guy to get this rub from Angle. I think Crimson could be Big Star for TNA.

 

[CelticCorey]

I wish I could rep you but I have to do it some more.

You make several good points.

-Crimson seems to be over quite a bit. Angle is Angle and could REALLY give the rub seeing his skill set and what kind of a legend he actually is.

-This could be a terrific match at Bound For Glory. Crimson is actually pretty good in the ring IMO.

-I see more intensity and build on Crimson. He may not be bulky but I definitely think I have seen him gain some muscle mass and he looks much more fierce.

There are some alternative ways to look at this though:

-Is Kurt Angle part of Immortal? I hope not but it seems a heel randomly joins Immortal. I hope Immortal ends at Bound For Glory and given the history I hope Crimson does it.

-I think you also could've kept Angle face and have him mentor Crimson if they teamed up and since especially they were in cahoots on the Fortune face turn and they together could help take down Immortal.

Nonetheless I like what I see.

 

[Skairipa Matrix]

i agree after watching impact tonight its pretty clear that the bound for glory main event is gonna be undefeated streak vs title aka Crimson vs Kurt Angle! as much as id much rather have bobby roode or james storm win the BFG series it wont happen but im sure crimson and angle will have a great match at BFG....mostly because i dont think ive seen a BAD kurt angle match...ever! crimson has been putting on good matches and hes starting to show hes ready ring wise for the main event scene but before i say hes ready lets see how he does on the mic because if he sucks on the mic angle is gonna make him look like shit as much as i hate to say it but if crimson vs angle is the BFG main event i still think kurt angle should win it

 

[ABMorales787]

Probably no one, but turning Angle heel hurts this A LOT. If you want to use an Angle to put over Crimson as the future star, that works much better as a babyface/babyface match. Angle as a babyface doesn't get beaten very often. He's THAT good. Thus, if someone were to beat him cleanly, it would mean a ton. The Angle who tries to cheat and uses chairs and uses other people to help can be beaten because he's focused on other things. Thus, beating that Angle doesn't mean as much.

If they are building towards this, FATAL mistake in turning Angle heel. Had he been a face and Crimson won the tournament, this could have been something where Crimson beats him clean, Angle shakes his hand and the kid gets the ultimate rub. Now, that won't happen.

Granted I still don't think Crimson is anywhere near ready to be the champion, but they may do this anyway. I think though that he would be a good sacrificial lamb and attacks could take him out of the main event and the tournament, leading to Bobby Roode who is MUCH more seasoned getting to be the "young guy" to face Angle and beating him. THAT I can get behind and I think that match would be light years ahead of anything Crimson would do.

Face vs face? The most important thing in a feud is the blow off. And if Kurt was a face, the blow off would be underwhelming and not help Crimson the right way. As a face, Kurt would just shake hands and move on. As a heel, he'd look for revenge no matter what. We already know Crimson is a bit of a big deal in the ring. The streak is establishing that. The key is putting him over as a main event player. That requires character development. Face vs face would just result in generic "I respect you" crap and while that would put over Crimson as a hot commodity, it would not solidify him as a main event player. Because he wouldn't be showing how he would work in the standard big face vs major heel scene that the main event is supposed to entail. GIven his lack of experience, Angle as a heel is the best bet to put him over as most solidly possible if that is the idea TNA is going with.

 

[JJYanks121]

Face vs face? The most important thing in a feud is the blow off. And if Kurt was a face, the blow off would be underwhelming and not help Crimson the right way. As a face, Kurt would just shake hands and move on. As a heel, he'd look for revenge no matter what. We already know Crimson is a bit of a big deal in the ring. The streak is establishing that. The key is putting him over as a main event player. That requires character development. Face vs face would just result in generic "I respect you" crap and while that would put over Crimson as a hot commodity, it would not solidify him as a main event player. Because he wouldn't be showing how he would work in the standard big face vs major heel scene that the main event is supposed to entail. GIven his lack of experience, Angle as a heel is the best bet to put him over as most solidly possible if that is the idea TNA is going with.

The way I'm picturing is actually like Warrior/Hogan in that sense. We aren't talking about a feud. We're talking about a "feud" that leads into one big match between two huge faces where the old one puts the new one over. By beating the best guy clean, you become the best guy. That's what a face vs. face match can do. I don't think it needs to be a long, drawn out feud if this is your goal. You need to build up Angle as the best in the world and Crimson as the up and comer, they meet at BFG, Crimson wins clean over Angle (which few have done in TNA and they can play that up) and he becomes a HUGE deal if he does).

I think this way would work a lot better than turning Angle heel for no reason just to get a heel/face match. It's sort of like HBK's pseudo-heel turn to face Hogan in 2005. No one bought it and it was unncessary. People just wanted to see the match itself and it didn't need a traditional heel/face. This though is Warrior/Hogan and Crimson is definitely Warrior........if he was popular. He's certainly "crazy" with his "intensity" and his gimmick is about kicking ass as a babyface. That's what I would liken this to. I believe this needs to be a one-off match where Crimson goes over. That's if they do this. I still don't support Crimson as champ yet but if you have to do it, that's the way to do it.

 

[ABMorales787]

The way I'm picturing is actually like Warrior/Hogan in that sense. We aren't talking about a feud. We're talking about a "feud" that leads into one big match between two huge faces where the old one puts the new one over. By beating the best guy clean, you become the best guy. That's what a face vs. face match can do. I don't think it needs to be a long, drawn out feud if this is your goal. You need to build up Angle as the best in the world and Crimson as the up and comer, they meet at BFG, Crimson wins clean over Angle (which few have done in TNA and they can play that up) and he becomes a HUGE deal if he does).

I think this way would work a lot better than turning Angle heel for no reason just to get a heel/face match. It's sort of like HBK's pseudo-heel turn to face Hogan in 2005. No one bought it and it was unncessary. People just wanted to see the match itself and it didn't need a traditional heel/face. This though is Warrior/Hogan and Crimson is definitely Warrior........if he was popular. He's certainly "crazy" with his "intensity" and his gimmick is about kicking ass as a babyface. That's what I would liken this to. I believe this needs to be a one-off match where Crimson goes over. That's if they do this. I still don't support Crimson as champ yet but if you have to do it, that's the way to do it.

There's the issue. He isn't popular enough. He needs to show why people should care for him and while Kurt giving him respect is nice, Crimson taking down a major bad guy who happens to be a legend will have far better results in his case. Ultimate Warrior was already established as a popular guy. Hogan passed the torch as company face. Same case when you look at AJ Styles and Sting in 2009. But not with Crimson. He needs to show why he would make a good main event wrestler and because it's gonna involve him facing big heels all the time, a respect feud won't cut him the proper slack.

 

[lakersyr09]

I feel that this could be a good match if not a great match if it is done right, I know right now angle seems to be a heel, and he has to do heel things to win a match but it they really want Crimson to be a top guy/face then have Angle wrestling as a heel face a face Crimson, but let it be a clean match with no heel tactics, but if they really want to make the match something great then maybe make it like a submission match since Angle knows submissions and is great with them, while Crimson knows submissions because when he first started he had that mma thing with JJ. A submission match would be great because it can make crimson look great especially if he made angle tap, plus it will give angle an excuse to want to try and end crimson's streak.

 

[New Hot Fed]

I would prefer if Angle take him out permanently. Like it's bye bye Crimson after tonight. At least no more BFG for you Crimson hack!

p.s. Crimson looked absolutly horrible in that three-on-one match. They built him like a monster yet once his matchs starts, he comes off just like another wrestler, not very big to boot. Goldberg would have destroyed Bully, older Steiner and Gunner easily. Three back-to-back spears. The End.

 

[The Death Rattle]

There's the issue. He isn't popular enough. He needs to show why people should care for him and while Kurt giving him respect is nice, Crimson taking down a major bad guy who happens to be a legend will have far better results in his case. Ultimate Warrior was already established as a popular guy. Hogan passed the torch as company face. Same case when you look at AJ Styles and Sting in 2009. But not with Crimson. He needs to show why he would make a good main event wrestler and because it's gonna involve him facing big heels all the time, a respect feud won't cut him the proper slack.

I don't buy Kurt Angle as a "major bad guy" at this point. He just turned heel this past Sunday. There really wasn't any build to his turn, it just kind of happened. Kurt said he hadn't beat Sting before without outside interference. After Hardcore Justice, that is still the case. Hogan aided him in beating Sting, so Angle didn't accomplish what he set out to do. He cheated to win against Sting again.

Secondly, if people don't care enough about Crimson yet from his undefeated streak I don't know what is going to make that happen. If he can't build a massive following by beating everyone he has faced, what is going to make people buy into him. I don't mind TNA trying to create a new star, but clearly the strategy has yet to really work. They have backed themselves into a corner with him, as he has to win or all of the time devoted to his push will be for not.

Lastly, there is plenty of time for him to face other heels in subsequent title defenses should he win the championship. If Angle beat Sting cleanly and remained face, it would be assumed he would be at the top of his game and wouldn't have to resort to cheating to win. Angle clearly has all the credentials of a true main eventer, more so as a face. I think if Crimson were to defeat an "honorable" Angle, as opposed to a "dishonorable" one, he would gain more from it n the long run. That's not to say Angle isn't a good heel, he is just more believable as a fierce wrestler better than others on the roster who doesn't have to cheat to win his encounters. He won his Olympic gold medals without cheating after all. Faces are supposed to beat dastardly heels. I believe a wrestler gains more credibility by beating another competitor in a straight up, evenly contested match then overcoming the cheating ways of a heel. Quite frankly, we see that all the time as it is. In true face vs. face matches, it reasons that the winner of that match is the better man.

I really liked the purposed idea of Kurt Angle offering his hand in defeat. It's like a warrior saying that he was bested by a better warrior during that particular battle. I think receiving an endorsement from the best TNA has to offer would further solidify Crimson should he win the title, instead of him beating a guy who couldn't beat Sting on his own. I feel the more accolades and accomplishments you bestow upon him can only help in making him the major star TNA views him as. I'd imagine his feuds after winning the title would concern him battling the various members of Immortal. There is ample time to have him steamroll through the top heels in TNA. There will be precious few opportunities to put him over the best wrestler in the business, which I feel they have now thrown away with Angle's nonsensical turn.

 

[snoopy]

I would prefer if Angle take him out permanently. Like it's bye bye Crimson after tonight. At least no more BFG for you Crimson hack!

p.s. Crimson looked absolutly horrible in that three-on-one match. They built him like a monster yet once his matchs starts, he comes off just like another wrestler, not very big to boot. Goldberg would have destroyed Bully, older Steiner and Gunner easily. Three back-to-back spears. The End.

And that's why Goldberg was a one trick pony! If he wasn't beating guys in 30seconds he was lost! TNA is doing the right thing with Crimson they're giving him long matches so he can learn! And so once it clicks he won't be a one trick pony like Goldberg! They're Making him sell moves so in the future when he gets more comfortable in long matches he will know how to actually sell his opponents offense! They're doing a great job teaching while at the same time building this guy!

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

Absolutely. Crimson is slowly but surely becoming what he's intended to be. Kurt is just the man to get him over. He's got the mind for it and the match they'll eventually have will not only be a barn burner but also get Crimson over like a million bucks. Angle's done nothing but miracles for guys like Joe, AJ, Wolfe, Anderson and Crimson will be no different.

I'm excited for Crimson's future.

I agree. Anyone who gets into the ring with Kurt Angle comes off looking better for it, even someone like Jay Lethal (TNA just never capitalised on his potential). Angle is one of the most selfless main eventers of the last decade and will always do "the right thing" for business and to help up-and-coming stars. Crimson could do much worse than go up against Angle and beat him cleanly after a great competitive match.

I think Crimson has the potential to be a major player in TNA. Personally, I think its too soon to put the belt on him, I would rather Robert Roode win the BFG series, but if Angle is champion then whoever faces him will come out looking better than they do now.

Crimson getting a clean victory over Kurt and then getting the seal of approval from the defeated champion will put him over like a million bucks and really help Crimson's credibility in TNA. I like the guy, he has impressed me so far and I hope TNA build him up correctly and he can become another home-grown success story.

 

[hackm]

I can't for the life of me figure out why the booking staff is rushing through Crimson's progress. There's no such thing as a slow build in TNA.

 

[The Crock]

Not a better choice, the way I see it. Angle is a top guy in the sport, not only that, but he's one of the few guys of his stature that doesn't have a problem with putting anybody over, he can do wonders for Crimson. Hell, even if he ends Crimson's streak, just the fact that he worked with Angle will legitimize him more, especially if it's a competitive match where he pushes Angle to the edge, which I'm sure he will be.

I think AJ Styles is another guy, who is willing to put guys over and can make them look really great, the only issue with him is that he's not that high up on the card at this point and he's certainly no Angle.

 

[Dizzy]

I can't for the life of me figure out why the booking staff is rushing through Crimson's progress. There's no such thing as a slow build in TNA.

....What? There is no such thing as a slow build in WWE.

TNA has built their guys slowly for years now. Matt Morgan main evented against Angle at BFG. Then got a title shot last year. Then got TWO title shows this year.

It's quite clear, people don't even bother watching when they want to criticize shit nowadays.

Crimson is the only guy TNA pushed fast and it's not rushing either. The guy comes in wins a few matches, qualifies for the BFG series and he continues to win matches. If this was Paul Heyman, people would love it.

People want TNA to come up with original shit. There is nothing more original than a guy who debuts, never held a title and wins the World Title on the biggest stage.

Goldberg held the US title before winning the World title. John Cena won the US title before winning the WWE title. So, Crimson has potential to do something unique and special. Like it or not.

 

[JJYanks121]

....What? There is no such thing as a slow build in WWE.

TNA has built their guys slowly for years now. Matt Morgan main evented against Angle at BFG. Then got a title shot last year. Then got TWO title shows this year.

It's quite clear, people don't even bother watching when they want to criticize shit nowadays.

Crimson is the only guy TNA pushed fast and it's not rushing either. The guy comes in wins a few matches, qualifies for the BFG series and he continues to win matches. If this was Paul Heyman, people would love it.

People want TNA to come up with original shit. There is nothing more original than a guy who debuts, never held a title and wins the World Title on the biggest stage.

Goldberg held the US title before winning the World title. John Cena won the US title before winning the WWE title. So, Crimson has potential to do something unique and special. Like it or not.

I don't usually comment on your stuff but I have a list for you:

Kane, Brock Lesnar, The Undertaker, The Great Khali, Sheamus, Hulk Hogan, Yokozuna. All of those guys won a world title on their respective shows within 1 year of debuting on them and all of those guys did not previously hold a midcard title.

You aren't wrong in all the stuff you said here, but you are definitely wrong in saying that Crimson winning the title within a year without holding a midcard title is unique. It's not. It's a tool used to get large guys over and it's been done forever. He's just next in line for the "he looks good, let's try it" push. The key will be if he can get people to care about him. So far, I'm not so sure that people do, but we'll see if it works.