Where do you think Undertaker would be now if it wasn't for The Streak?

[HeymanHustler]

I am in no way saying that I think Undertaker's career would have been any less successful without The Streak. With or without it, I'm sure he was bound for success. However, a thought occurred the other day.

It's clear that the main attraction of WrestleMania these days is Undertaker defending The Streak. Whether the match has a well built story or not, everyone will always be anxious to see Undertaker at WrestleMania, even when we're all 99% sure he's going to win. However, there have been many instances where Taker could've have lost any one of his matches at Mania. The smallest decision could have put a blemish in Taker's record before it became a big deal. I mean, just to name one example, back when WWE wanted Undertaker to face Angle at WrestleMania 22 for the World Heavyweight Title, Angle said in an interview that Taker was willing to take a loss because WWE really wanted to keep the title on Angle. But then they decided Mysterio getting an underdog victory in the name of the late Eddie Guerrero would have been a bigger Mania moment.

Now, the point I'm getting at is that what if Taker did lose one or a few Mania matches and since Taker only wrestles once at Mania now every year to defend the streak, would that mean he'd just stay retired completely without a streak to defend? Since WrestleMania is unanimous with The Streak, how big would Mania be without it? For that matter, since The Streak is usually the first thing that springs to mind when someone says Undertaker, how big of a superstar would he be without it?

 

[KitsuneDreamer]

Interesting topic.

I feel that even with out the Streak going as long as it has, the Undertaker would still be considered in the "upper echelon", even if he had lost some bouts.

I think that WrestleMania would be the same, but the Streak is what people look forward to because they know it is consistently going to turn out a pretty good match,
and obviously people get on the edge of their seats thinking, "Is this the year it ends?

I believe his work schedule would definitely be different without a streak to defend,
I just think maybe he would have went another route and maybe have like Hell In A Cell matches every WM or something.

I've always thought that the Streak was essentially a crutch because, no matter how sub-par a WrestleMania can be, the Streak will always be the thing people can bank on as a selling point.

I am drawing a blank, did they always acknowledge the Streak (as they do today), while it was in it's early to mid stages?

 

[shafe_41]

He'd still be a legend. Up until the last 5-6 years, his matches at Mania weren't talked about as the best of his career. At least not many of them were.

He always has been a company guy and did what was best for business. His relationship with Vince and the talent is that of a guy who is nothing but a consummate professional. Nobody has a bad word to say about the guy. I mean the Streak is a great selling point at this point in his career. If he didn't have the Streak, I feel he would have retired 3-4 years ago. Sure he probably receives an amazing paycheck to give it his all once a year, but I doubt he NEEDS it. I'd be willing to bet Taker has made about $1 million for each match at WM the last 5-6 years. And when you can still perform the way he can, he deserves every penny. But without the Streak, I feel Taker would have hung it up. That's just me. Great topic though.

 

[justtxyank]

If not for the streak he'd probably be retired already. The streak is bigger than The Undertaker now and without the streak he wouldn't have been put in the HBK matches to make the streak even more legendary than it already was. Without those matches his dwindling physical skills would have certainly ended his career already.

 

[spg]

Up till 5 years ago the streak meant nothing(maybe not 5 years but you know what I mean). As a kid I hated Yoko with his 20 partners pushing taker in the casket and so on. Look at takers matches at mania, they are not his legacy. The streak might be, but until him and hhh at 17, they are not great, then after that we need wait a bit for another great show. Taker is my god, but mania isn't his legacy. It's the years he's been here, beyond the rest, there is no one like him

 

[Softcore Holly]

I think he might actually have hung up his boots years ago, with maybe a very rare surprise appearance every once and a while before calling it quits for good. It's pretty clear that these 1 match a year performance takes a lot out of him and that the only reason he does them is so WWE gets a extra special match at WM. But without the Streak a once a year Taker match isn't so special, especially if he lost before.

If I had to guess I would say he would've retired the same year HBK did, maybe 1 year after. Either way I don't think he would still be wrestling in 2014 and beyond.

 

[spg]

He deserves the streak. If he was Austin, cena, rock, Hogan, his title reigns would of lasted longer. He only had 1 real long proper run(a few holding runs). He never needed the title. He was still always a top guy. Streak or not, he's the best. Never needed a push, he'll still sell, most constant money the wwe have ever seen. Never demanded title, he deserves the streak that has been pushed on him, if it's all he gets... Then bow down to the reaper.

 

[GameOver]

Streak is definately his defining thing but besides that the guy was a workhorse for a decade and was the common demonitator for kick ass matches by Hogan, Austin, The Rock, Triple H, Mick Foley, HBK the consumate list of a who's who of WWF legends all fought in his yard and of them were made famous or put back on the map with his help. He took a bizarre gimmick that by all rights shouldn't have lasted much longer then his fueds with Hogan and The Warrior but he made it believable and got the audience into it

Undertaker is to WWE what Sting was for WCW, they were both the conscience, the guy that stuck by there company through thick and thin and did everything that was asked of them, and in Takers point he's also a leader backstage, and by all accounts the enforcer when it comes to putting people in there place.

So i'd say the Streak has definately made him a household name in the casual market but for hardcore/long term fans he's the best big man in the business bar none and The Phenom and a Tier 1 HOF inductee soon.

 

[GameOver]

I think he might actually have hung up his boots years ago, with maybe a very rare surprise appearance every once and a while before calling it quits for good. It's pretty clear that these 1 match a year performance takes a lot out of him and that the only reason he does them is so WWE gets a extra special match at WM. But without the Streak a once a year Taker match isn't so special, especially if he lost before.

If I had to guess I would say he would've retired the same year HBK did, maybe 1 year after. Either way I don't think he would still be wrestling in 2014 and beyond.

How is it pretty obvious? just cause sites like this report he's termnally ill or is on his last legs doesn't mean he is, only the people not saying know for sure, he's stayed in good shape for his age and the shit he's put his body through over the years, he's old so ofcourse he's gonna slow down and what you see onscreen is atleast 50% good selling, but he can still fly over the top rope and put on a wrestling clinic during the few matches, maybe he just doesn't want to end up like others of the past that can't walk away before they are crippled permanently, he doesn't need to be on the road anymore plus he has a successfull business to run aswell, wrestling isn't his only thing.

 

[GameOver]

Interesting topic.

I feel that even with out the Streak going as long as it has, the Undertaker would still be considered in the "upper echelon", even if he had lost some bouts.

I think that WrestleMania would be the same, but the Streak is what people look forward to because they know it is consistently going to turn out a pretty good match,
and obviously people get on the edge of their seats thinking, "Is this the year it ends?

I believe his work schedule would definitely be different without a streak to defend,
I just think maybe he would have went another route and maybe have like Hell In A Cell matches every WM or something.

I've always thought that the Streak was essentially a crutch because, no matter how sub-par a WrestleMania can be, the Streak will always be the thing people can bank on as a selling point.

I am drawing a blank, did they always acknowledge the Streak (as they do today), while it was in it's early to mid stages?

Agree entirely The Streak is one of few matches every year that the word WrestleMania was meant for, otherwise on average WrestleMania has been lackluster more often then not certiny doesn't live upto the hype and if it wasn't 4hours long as opposed to 3hrs for the other PPV's and hyped months in advance it wouldn't feel very different.

 

[HeymanHustler]

I am drawing a blank, did they always acknowledge the Streak (as they do today), while it was in it's early to mid stages?

Well, The Streak never became a huge selling point story wise until Taker's feud with Orton for WrestleMania 21 when Orton still had his Legend Killer gimmick had said he wanted to kill Taker's WrestleMania legend. From then on, just about all his feuds going into Mania were about his challengers wanting to end The Streak.

 

[Softcore Holly]

How is it pretty obvious? just cause sites like this report he's termnally ill or is on his last legs doesn't mean he is, only the people not saying know for sure, he's stayed in good shape for his age and the shit he's put his body through over the years, he's old so ofcourse he's gonna slow down and what you see onscreen is atleast 50% good selling, but he can still fly over the top rope and put on a wrestling clinic during the few matches, maybe he just doesn't want to end up like others of the past that can't walk away before they are crippled permanently, he doesn't need to be on the road anymore plus he has a successfull business to run aswell, wrestling isn't his only thing.

It's obvious from his matches really. Father time and injuries gets to every wrestler eventually, and those caught up to Taker a while ago. Taker's amazing enough to still put on those great WM matches but it's not hard to tell that the other guy is doing a lot to help him get to the finish line, compared to years past when Taker didn't need the help at all. Not that takes anything away from Taker, like you said he's old and slowing down so he needs the help, but each year he gets slower and the other guy has to carry more of the load, so you'll have to forgive me that makes me draw the conclusion of the matches taking a lot out of a near 50 year old man.

But then again like most things on this board it's just speculation on my part, I could totally wrong and he could stay on the road until WM 31 if he felt like it. Or he could be back in his home being extremely thankful that he doesn't have to do another match till next year.

 

[spg]

HeymanHustler is right. It still means nothing to me. For what he has done without the title. He's not Shawn, he's not Bret, diesel, and I'll carry on with the rest if you want me to. Mick Foley and taker sold without the title and together they were great. All big heads were great but there is only A couple of non big heads that are Great

 

[AegonTargaryen]

Well, The Streak never became a huge selling point story wise until Taker's feud with Orton for WrestleMania 21 when Orton still had his Legend Killer gimmick had said he wanted to kill Taker's WrestleMania legend. From then on, just about all his feuds going into Mania were about his challengers wanting to end The Streak.

Not really. WM 22 was not about Mark Henry wanting to end the streak AT ALL , but Taker getting his revenge on Mark Henry who'd cost him the WHC match with Angle on SD. WM 23 had nothing to do with the streak, except for a fleeting mention. It was more about Taker's redemption and the imminent championship win for the first time in 5 years. WM 24 was about his redepmtion and victory over the WHC which he never rightfully lost(to Edge in May 2007). But yeah, I agree that the starting point for the Streak to become the centrepoint of Taker's WM matches was from WM 21, and continuing from WM 25 till now ,when it has become a terrible bore, especially now that he looks like Uncle Fester, who couldn't in actuality beat Brock Lesnar if Lesnar was blindfolded.

As to the OP, IMO, the Wrestlemania at this point is NOT synonymous with the streak, in fact the streak is desperately trying to live on by feeding on WM and the expectations of the audience, which certainly are not and cannot be fulfilled by Taker. IMO, there is nothing as boring to anticipate or endure for WM, than Undertaker because he's washed-up, his gimimck is too old and annoying, and he has not done anything new in YEARS. The last time he was enjoyable and pleasant was when Shawn lost to him for the second time. From that point on, the whole HHH thing, it was getting annoying. Year after year, the same old Undertaker returning for either one more shot of glory, or revenge. My problem is not whether Taker deserves it or not, but that he's stale, and without his long hair and totally neglected body, he is not what we all once cheered for. The streak is the last thing I look forward to. And yeah , without the streak , Undertaker would be no different than any other legend in the business, like Ric Flair or HH, all of whom want one more shot at glory and it never changes.

 

[JJ15776]

Well, simply put, without the streak The Undertaker would be a retired Hall Of Famer right now. Without the streak, there's no reason for him to come back and do his one match a year thing, so it stands to reason that he would've retired no later than 2011 and perhaps as early as 2009. It was after the 2009 WrestleMania match, his first with Shawn Michaels, that he really started taking regular hiatuses and, of course, be basically hasn't done anything except wrestle at WrestleMania since 2011. So his retirement would've taken place during that timeframe.

As to the larger questions of the impact of never having a streak...honestly, very little or nothing would change about The. Undertaker or WrestleMania without the streak. All one has to do is rewind back to WrestleMania XX, when the streak was but a footnote. Taker was already a legend, and WrestleMania was already the grand daddy of them all. Depending on exactly when he retired and what storylines they would've run in absence of the streak, we may have lost out on the great matches he had against Edge and HBK, and the good matches against Triple H and CM Punk, and a possible match with Sting...but those are just individual moments, nothing that would've drastically changed how we view things in the big picture.

 

[kumarjtk]

Without streak he is still a great legend. But i dont think he is a active wrestler in today. he retired and get his hof along with paul bearer. His title victories are less to compared without streak. They wont give win against batista and edge at wm.

 

[Hem]

Mania as a whole would not change without the streak. Undertakers streak is now a special attraction and is something that people enjoy but if they were not used to an annual streak match then they wouldn't particularly care for it as much. Undertaker still would have been one of the biggest names in WWE history no doubt. However I think around 2008 or so Undertaker would have retired completely and not wrestle even one match.

 

[Zycho32]

People seem to forget that Taker had been wrestling on a regular basis all the way up to '10- there was a reason he was in the WHC picture as recently as that year. Without the streak in itself, I don't think Taker would have completely and totally 'Retired', but you most certainly would have seen even LESS of him now than you already do. WM 28 might very well have been Taker's last performance though I can see WWE trying to bring him back every now and then for the Nostalgia factor.

So to sum up- Regular Performer until his '10 injury, Part-Time performer until WM 28, and a total mystery from there. Streak or no Streak.

 

[Van Dam]

The Streak was never really mentioned up until the modern era. The first mentions I remember of it were when he was facing Orton. To answer the topic question of where would he be without The Streak? He would still be a legend no doubt about it but I don't think we would be seeing him on a yearly basis as we are. His sole purpose at the moment is to defend his streak. I think if he didn't have said streak that he would be showing up at random times such as for a SummerSlam program or a Survivor Series one. Perhaps the sort of deal that RVD is on.

 

[chynasbustedimplant]

I think The Streak is the reason he hasn't retired yet. Without The Streak, Taker would already be in the HoF. Although now I wonder who will induct him? I think at some point he would've been a authority figure/GM on Raw and I don't know if were ready for the Undertaker to start dressing in suits every week, it looks awful everytime I see Kane. This would go on until taker has enough of the suits and goes all anti-authority or the right person (Sting) came along and challenged him to one final match.

 

[justtxyank]

Streak is definately his defining thing but besides that the guy was a workhorse for a decade and was the common demonitator for kick ass matches by Hogan, Austin, The Rock, Triple H, Mick Foley, HBK the consumate list of a who's who of WWF legends all fought in his yard and of them were made famous or put back on the map with his help. He took a bizarre gimmick that by all rights shouldn't have lasted much longer then his fueds with Hogan and The Warrior but he made it believable and got the audience into it

Undertaker is to WWE what Sting was for WCW, they were both the conscience, the guy that stuck by there company through thick and thin and did everything that was asked of them, and in Takers point he's also a leader backstage, and by all accounts the enforcer when it comes to putting people in there place.

So i'd say the Streak has definately made him a household name in the casual market but for hardcore/long term fans he's the best big man in the business bar none and The Phenom and a Tier 1 HOF inductee soon.

This is ridiculous. His matches with Hogan were terrible both in the early 1990s and then again when Hogan returned in 2002. He didn't make any of those names you listed famous except Mankind and the only other one he did anything really big for was Austin as the feud with Undertaker was the only legit feud Austin could have in the WWF in 1998/1999 because there were no other main event level talents left. (Rock and HHH weren't there yet, HBK was hurt)

Undertaker is certainly the most enduring big man, but I don't believe him to be the best in terms of talent.

 

[justtxyank]

The Streak was never really mentioned up until the modern era. The first mentions I remember of it were when he was facing Orton. To answer the topic question of where would he be without The Streak? He would still be a legend no doubt about it but I don't think we would be seeing him on a yearly basis as we are. His sole purpose at the moment is to defend his streak. I think if he didn't have said streak that he would be showing up at random times such as for a SummerSlam program or a Survivor Series one. Perhaps the sort of deal that RVD is on.

I think they mentioned it (not as a big deal) in both his match with HHH at 17 and Flair at 18. I'm also sure they mentioned it at 19. It wasn't "The Streak" yet obviously, but they talked about him being undefeated at Wrestlemania.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

I remember them talking about the streak as early as the handicap match with Big Show and Albert. It was more of an 'in passing' type of thing like they did when Edge had started building up his own WM streak, but I feel that was the time they realized what was happening and decided to begin building it to what it is today.

Without the streak? I think Taker would have retired by now. He wouldn't have the incentive to keep coming back for his one WM match a year without it, and lets face it... there's a reason the guy takes most of the year off at this point. He's in his late 40's, he's made all the money he'll ever need, and he's earned the right to sit back and enjoy life.

One thing without the streak though... is we wouldn't have seen the classics he's had the last few years. One of the things that's enabled Taker to have those classics is the fact that he gets to spend time before WM rehearsing the match ahead of time. He only started doing that once he went off the road and became a WM attraction, because before then, he simply wouldn't have had the time to do it like he can today. Without the streak, once he's off the road, he's retired. If he's used in one off spots like other retired guys, it's likely not as a WM attraction. If he is in a later WM match, it's more of a nostalgia match that doesn't have the same weight as a streak match and isn't expected to help carry the show, so the pressure to put on a 5 star match isn't there.

So while he'd still of course be a revered legend and a huge name in the business (that never changes), the part of his legacy that was built on those matches with HBK and HHH just isn't there anymore.

 

[whoopin' ass]

Retired for a few years. All he really wrestles now is his Mania match so if he didn't have the streak, he probably would have retired a few years ago.

In terms if his career, the streak lost its importance a long time ago. 5-0, 8-0 - people still bought into it as it was a good streak but there was still the chance he could lose. 13-0, 15-0, 18-0 - pretty clear he isn't going to lose unless it is a major angle with either the top guy or the hottest thing since Austin. At that point, you are just adding numbers. The matches may be great but the streak no longer matters since you know he will win - they could put that match on Raw instead. Don't get me wrong - you can still like the matches and get pulled into the story but you know full well that at the end of the night that total is going up by one - how important can it be when you know it is a given? It is an excuse now for him to appear at Mania without spending months building up a story so its importance lessens every year.

 

[HeymanHustler]

Not really. WM 22 was not about Mark Henry wanting to end the streak AT ALL , but Taker getting his revenge on Mark Henry who'd cost him the WHC match with Angle on SD. WM 23 had nothing to do with the streak, except for a fleeting mention. It was more about Taker's redemption and the imminent championship win for the first time in 5 years. WM 24 was about his redepmtion and victory over the WHC which he never rightfully lost(to Edge in May 2007). But yeah, I agree that the starting point for the Streak to become the centrepoint of Taker's WM matches was from WM 21, and continuing from WM 25 till now ,when it has become a terrible bore, especially now that he looks like Uncle Fester, who couldn't in actuality beat Brock Lesnar if Lesnar was blindfolded.

As to the OP, IMO, the Wrestlemania at this point is NOT synonymous with the streak, in fact the streak is desperately trying to live on by feeding on WM and the expectations of the audience, which certainly are not and cannot be fulfilled by Taker. IMO, there is nothing as boring to anticipate or endure for WM, than Undertaker because he's washed-up, his gimimck is too old and annoying, and he has not done anything new in YEARS. The last time he was enjoyable and pleasant was when Shawn lost to him for the second time. From that point on, the whole HHH thing, it was getting annoying. Year after year, the same old Undertaker returning for either one more shot of glory, or revenge. My problem is not whether Taker deserves it or not, but that he's stale, and without his long hair and totally neglected body, he is not what we all once cheered for. The streak is the last thing I look forward to. And yeah , without the streak , Undertaker would be no different than any other legend in the business, like Ric Flair or HH, all of whom want one more shot at glory and it never changes.

True. The Streak, story wise, got a feeble mention at WM22 and even more of a feeble mention come WM23. Sure, the beef between Taker and Batista was much more about the title than The Streak, but the commentary somehow managed to make it more about The Streak, which I guess makes sense. It's much more dramatic to hear Michael Cole and JBL scream "The Streak IS OVER! NO! TAKER KICKS OUT AT 2 1/2! THE STREAK LIVES FOR A LITTLE LONGER!" than "BATISTA'S ABOUT TO RETAIN! NO! TAKER KICKS OUT!". Though for WrestleMania 24, even though it was more about Taker getting revenge, WWE still felt The Streak was as big of a selling point after 15-0 that they felt the need to build Edge vs Taker as Streak vs Streak, even though Edge lost at WrestleMania 23. I've heard some people say in a ladder match, you technically can't lose as long as you're not pinned, but if you don't pull down the briefcase/title, you didn't win either and it counts.

I sort of agree with that statement, but only to an extent. I do think The Streak has become synonymous with The Streak and it is usually the thing most people get excited for if only to see what kind of show Taker puts on since he's been putting on 5 star Mania matches since WM23. If nothing else works, you can bet The Streak match will. There have been so many WrestleMania's where even if people found the show disappointing, they were at least satisfied with Taker's match. I've heard people say things like "WrestleMania 29 was disappointing, but Taker vs Punk was fantastic!" or "WrestleMania 25 sucked! There was just Taker vs Michaels and that's it!" I personally don't think any Mania can "suck", but that's another thread for another day. Point is a lot of people out there look forward to The Streak these days and knowing that The Streak is at stake helps provide that extra Mania feeling. I mean, he's been at consecutive WrestleMania's since WM7 and the only one he missed was WM16 and to a lot of people, that's the worst WrestleMania ever. It's hard for me to think that that's a coincidence. Now, I agree, his gimmick has gotten a bit stale and at this point, the only thing keeping him relevant is that Streak. But his career is dwindling down now so there's no point in trying to reinvigorate it, especially if he's just going to show up once a year, so I say let him keep up his Deadman act until he retires. Even if his theatrics have gotten old and even a little predictable (ala the coffin thing he did with Brock from last Monday), he can still put on a good match come Mania.