When was the last time....

[chuckmdubya]

The Roman Reigns push is scary for WWE fans that can remember the Lex Luger push. It was like all the sudden he's an American Hero and face of the company. And by the same miracle, all of the sudden Roman Reigns is the face of the company, and to hell with John Cena, Randy Orton, and Daniel Bryan.
So I worry he will suffer the same fate as Luger. If you push him this hard, and he is not ready/ doesn't have what it takes, his career will be ruined.
I thought the show last night was full of excellent mic work except for when Reigns came down and tripped all over the word threat. He's nervous, he's facing hostile, smarky crowds, and he's not an old salty veteran who's ego can handle it. He will either be baptized under fire and become great or he will be at TNA.

 

[laodaron]

Lex Luger had a massively popular career in WWF and WCW, if I was a superstar, I'd be happy to have the comparison. Oh, sure, some IWC hipsters try to disparage him, but he was massively over for a long time.

 

[Bockwinkel's Class]

You're kidding right? The fantasy is that a handful of marks inspired a movement in the WWE. The WWE worked the living shit out of the DB marks, perfectly, actually. He certainly earned it, as I said, with his work ethic and likeability, but don't delude yourself. You and your kind aren't important. The WWE rolled right along with or without your appreciation.

Daniel Bryan's push was harder than Roman Reigns push, which is the answer to the OP.

And that's the thing: All to often, when people talk about the fans, what they're REALLY referring to is the IWC. The problem is that the IWC is in no way shape or form representative of the fans. In fact, the IWC is usually 180 degrees out of step with the vast majority of the fans. Despite this the IWC grossly overrates it's own importance.

So who is the the WWE going to be looking out for: The vast majority of the casual fans or the IWC? They're going to be looking out for the casual fans because THAT'S where the vast majority of their money is made. And that's appropriate.

 

[laodaron]

Don't get me wrong, when the WWE saw that the fans were eating the kayfabe up like a shoot, they went into pure overdrive mode, and the fans went along for the ride. It was a perfect relationship. The fans got to believe in kayfabe again, and the WWE creative got to work the marks that thought it was real. Everyone prospered with the Daniel Bryan push.

The casual fans are so much more important to the WWE than the hardcore fans. I mean, really, hardcore fans of almost anything at all bring no value to the product. They often complain the most when they don't get their way, they often do not pay for all of their consumption because it would cost too much, they are often contrarian for the sake of it, and in the end, they would always rather throw the baby out with the bathwater than get their way. The WWE knows this, and that's why they continue to ignore the hardcore fans and appeal to the casuals. And that's what makes the product good.

 

[DB-Fan]

@laodaron I think you're missing the point of OP. While Bryan got a super push, at least on screen he was not regarded as such. Plus Bryan was already super over before his push. On the other hand, Reigns has had endorsements from all sides for him. No face has ever been put in such situation within the first year of their singles career.

Correct. There were two different and distinct parts to the "push" Reigns has recently received that I was referring to. It's not just the generic, yet important, portion of a push that every Superstar receives from time to time: being a "monster" in the ring that beats the odds. That's to be expected when a guy is getting a massive push. He'll take on 2 or 3 guys and actually be victorious over all of them.

The second part of the Reigns push is the one that I think separates it from ordinary pushes. I'm referring to the promos that are so over the top from other Superstars and other on air personalities (i.e. Heyman in this case). It's the verbal, "Wow, this guy is the greatest thing since sliced bread" stuff that has stood out to me during the Reigns' push. That's what has made it so different from other pushes we've seen in the past. It's just so over the top and coming from so many different people. Smacks of absolute desperation and I'm not sure how it will play out at Wrestlemania with the crowd.

 

[Kidpolean]

DB had a way longer, harder, and more impressive push than Reigns and its not even close. I think that this is just a case of the op disliking Reigns. Hell, Punks push was harder than Reigns as well. Ortons was comparable and so was Cena's and Brock's. I don't see anything different about the push that Reigns is getting.

Reigns push is different because they try to make him seem like he is the greatest? CM Punk had tons of merchandise that said "Best in the World" on it while also using this phrase in just about every promo he did, plus a match being booked at WrestleMania as the best in the world vs the best in the world....um that's way more in your face than anything they have done with Reigns.

 

[DCLXVI]

When I look at this thread I can't help but think of a story Kevin Nash tells about Vince McMahon basically telling Sid he was going to give him the keys to the castle, and put him in Hogan's spot and push him as such... and Sid said "Yeah but you know Vince, I think my money is playing this vicious heel" and Kevin Nash is just shaking his head as he tells this story. lol

anyways...

If it has happened I don't remember it off the top of my head since I've been watching. At least nothing that felt more forced. People have brought up Brock but I mean even back then, before his UFC career and when he was still very young... you looked at this guy and knew he was something else and a super-athlete.

Roman Reigns is slowly improving but he's been asked a lot of to be such a green guy... On the job training learning to talk, as you've never really cut promos and you are being fed wildly shitty scripts... wrestle in more lengthy matches that aren't just clothesline, repeat, grunt, spear, and triple powerbomb a guy with your buddies. It's one thing being a main event guy and "the face of the company". That is a lot to ask in a short period of time.

He was the muscle of the Shield only a short year ago if you watch last year's WrestleMania, and now he is in the WrestleMania main event against the man who is billed as the baddest man on the planet. Everyone knows Brock is doing the job. Still scratching my head but that is a hell of a push.

 

[DB-Fan]

I think that this is just a case of the op disliking Reigns.

Not at all, but thanks for playing God and reading my heart motives for the thread.

I'm actually being very sincere because I can't remember a push that's been this forced, awkward and blatant in its use of verbal affirmation thru other Superstar (including Heyman here) promos. It's just through the roof and I can't remember a similar situation in like... forever!

 

[Navi]

Not at all, but thanks for playing God and reading my heart motives for the thread.

I'm actually being very sincere because I can't remember a push that's been this forced, awkward and blatant in its use of verbal affirmation thru other Superstar (including Heyman here) promos. It's just through the roof and I can't remember a similar situation in like... forever!

It's because they had to do it to try and get him over. It's called damage control. They don't want their main event at Wrestlemania to go tits up. After getting boo'd out of the arena at the Rumble, what were they supposed to do? The next "Face" of the WWE is not the fans choice, so there are two options. Either take him out of the main event, or get everyone and his brother to convice the fans that he is the right one.

The problem is the fans see through the smokescreen the WWE are trying to create and aren't buying it. He's still getting boo'd, and no matter how many people come out and tell you he's the greatest, he has to prove it in the ring. He hasn't done that yet, and until he does he won't be accepted by the fanbase by and large.

I'm afraid this might actually be having the opposite effect. The more and more you are told to like or support someone or something you don't like or don't support, the more people will dig their heels in and not support it. I can see Daniel Bryan changing some people's minds, but not Paul Heyman. Fans who dislike Reigns will continue to dislike him for whatever reason, so all of these endorsements are falling on deaf ears.

The only person that can honestly change the fans minds about him, is Reigns himself. He has to go out there week in and week out and bring it. He can't be promoted as the underdog now, they've spent too much time making him into a Superman clone, so he has a much harder hill to climb.

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

What Reigns is going through is not out of the norm. You can look at the history of the WWE and see guys who reached the top within there first 3 years. If anything it is guys like Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels who are the exception. They were with the company probably for about 10 years before winning their titles.

 

[DB-Fan]

It's because they had to do it to try and get him over. It's called damage control.

Yeah, I get why they did it. I suspect most fans understand why they did it. But it's just come off as so awkward and forced and over the top, even accounting for Wrestlemania Main Event and all. My thinking is they panicked and went too far, too quick in an attempt to immediately win the fans over. They had a couple of months to change things up more naturally after the Rumble, but Vince panicked. So they just went crazy with the promos and in ring Superman stuff and it's come off terrible, imho.

I agree with your assessment about what is happening now and what might happen at WM 31. If they aren't careful, this could blow up in their face and have a guy with confetti raining down on him as he celebrates under a chorus of boos. They better have an alt plan for Rollins to cash in to save the show if they haven't turned the majority of fans on to Reigns by the end of this month.

 

[laodaron]

LOL, damage control. This was a contrived circle jerk post. You begin with a fallacious premise, and when told how silly the premise is, you merely ignore reality to circle jerk with another person of like-mindedness.

Roman Reigns is not getting any sort of push that isn't totally typical. Daniel Bryan's push last year was A-TYPICAL. But every year, there's a superstar who gets pushed to the moon for Wrestlemania. I'm sorry that that truth doesn't confirm your bias, but it is what it is.

 

[Navi]

Yeah, I get why they did it. I suspect most fans understand why they did it. But it's just come off as so awkward and forced and over the top, even accounting for Wrestlemania Main Event and all. My thinking is they panicked and went too far, too quick in an attempt to immediately win the fans over. They had a couple of months to change things up more naturally after the Rumble, but Vince panicked. So they just went crazy with the promos and in ring Superman stuff and it's come off terrible, imho.

I agree with your assessment about what is happening now and what might happen at WM 31. If they aren't careful, this could blow up in their face and have a guy with confetti raining down on him as he celebrates under a chorus of boos. They better have an alt plan for Rollins to cash in to save the show if they haven't turned the majority of fans on to Reigns by the end of this month.

I think quite honestly they should have just left it alone. Not had all these endorsements, and let Reigns get over on his own. He's been a singles wrestler for about 6 months. The worst you can say is he's inexperienced. That will come with time, but Vince wants him in the main event picture now, and that's the main problem.

Stop the pandering and the fans will make up their own minds based on what they see. Let the main event go as planned and let the chips fall where they lay.

 

[Straightfromthehart]

Now I know not wwe but the giant won the world title on his debut!!!!

Thats what you call a mega push!

 

[Papa Pillman]

Now I know not wwe but the giant won the world title on his debut!!!!

Thats what you call a mega push!

If we were looking to consider WCW/NWA/JCP there are definitely parallels for this push- Goldberg as an obvious one, but going back to Sting being perhaps an even more relevant example.

As for WWE, if we're gonna discount some of the other pushes mentioned in this thread as not being similar enough to Roman's, I'd like to hear how the OP would contrast Roman's push to that of the Ultimate Warrior. Hogan and commentary put Warrior over just as hard on the mic prior to WM6 as anyone has put Roman over this Mania season.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

I agree that Brock's push in 2002 wasn't forced. How else were you going to book him? From the second he debuted - you couldn't go slow with him. It was believable for him to win the King of the Ring. Fans wanted him to beat The Rock at SummerSlam. I think they botched his run by having him lose to The Big Show of all people and having Paul Heyman turn on him so soon. He probably should have held the title right into WM19. This was a time where The Rock and Stone Cold were on their way out, and Vince needed a star. Brock instantly became a star.

As someone mentioned, Del Rio and Sheamus were pushed really hard, way too soon and it feeling undeserving, like Reigns. Brock wasn't getting the reactions that Reigns is. In fact, John Cena after 2005 is the first time I remember fans being so split on a top guy, and WWE being too stubborn to change it. Unfortunately, this is happening to Reigns before he even gets to the top.

 

[DB-Fan]

As for WWE, if we're gonna discount some of the other pushes mentioned in this thread as not being similar enough to Roman's, I'd like to hear how the OP would contrast Roman's push to that of the Ultimate Warrior. Hogan and commentary put Warrior over just as hard on the mic prior to WM6 as anyone has put Roman over this Mania season.

I just don't remember Hogan fawning all over Warrior to the point of calling him "Sir" and saying, "the better man won, etc..." Then following it up with something like "I'd be honored to be your tag partner later this evening." Come on, that was so over the top for Daniel to have to do with Roman. And while some of the commentators back in the day did talk up Warrior, I'm not sure anyone stood in the ring with him and told him he was better than all the other stars that had preceded him, like Heyman did with Reigns. Again, I'm just saying the degree of the butt-kissing this time around is more extreme than I've ever remembered personally.

 

[BestWrestlingOpinions]

As others said, Lesnar got an insane push. Another guy the comes to mind is Sheamus. I think that 6 months in the main roster, he won the WWE title and was in the main event for a long time. After a successful run imo, he was transferred to SD, became a face, and had a long run either as WHC or challenger for it. Nowhere near the top guy though.

Reigns didn't get an insane push from the beginning. For a year, he was floating there with Dean and Seth. It took him 1 year to have a special moment, but ever since they decided on the Shield breaking up, he got a huge push, and even more so after he came back from his injury. The push he got after the injury is unparalleled, even when compared to Lesnar himself. At that point, he hadn't really done anything special. He broke a kayfabe record at the Rumble, which to me isn't special (being told to toss 13 ppl over the top rope).

Then he defeated Orton at Summerslam, where he was carried the entire match and had a bad showing. His mic skills were bad throughout his solo run. Even with all those things showing, and with other guys on the roster far more deserving of a top chance, he was pushed to the moon.

At least, WWE didn't knnow if Lesnar could go on the mic in front of the crowd until it actually happened, but they knew that the kid was a fkn beast and an amazing athlete, and that alone was worth of a hard push imo, even though he hadn't paid his dues yet.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I just don't remember Hogan fawning all over Warrior to the point of calling him "Sir" and saying, "the better man won, etc..." Then following it up with something like "I'd be honored to be your tag partner later this evening." Come on, that was so over the top for Daniel to have to do with Roman.

It wasn't even slightly over the top. It's exactly what Bryan's character is supposed to say in such a situation. He's a white meat babyface. Cena would have said the same shit.

I agree that Heyman's praise has been pretty awkward though.

 

[Papa Pillman]

I just don't remember Hogan fawning all over Warrior to the point of calling him "Sir" and saying, "the better man won, etc..." Then following it up with something like "I'd be honored to be your tag partner later this evening." Come on, that was so over the top for Daniel to have to do with Roman. And while some of the commentators back in the day did talk up Warrior, I'm not sure anyone stood in the ring with him and told him he was better than all the other stars that had preceded him, like Heyman did with Reigns. Again, I'm just saying the degree of the butt-kissing this time around is more extreme than I've ever remembered personally.

Hogan admitted to not being sure whether or not he could beat Warrior and put him over as the biggest threat yet to Hulkamania, which at the time was Hogan saying that Warrior was someone he was more worried about and was a more legitimate challenger than even Andre had ever been.

 

[DB-Fan]

Hogan admitted to not being sure whether or not he could beat Warrior and put him over as the biggest threat yet to Hulkamania, which at the time was Hogan saying that Warrior was someone he was more worried about and was a more legitimate challenger than even Andre had ever been.

Good point. That instance was similar to this one. The big difference there might be that Warrior had more time and accomplishments under his belt (both in WWF and also in other federations/regions) than Reigns does now. At least Warrior had been successfully wrestling n singles matches for 5 or so years before his big rub with Hogan.

 

[Mudlup50]

I definitely agree Lesnar got one of the most insane pushes, but like others have said...he deserved it. You couldn't really, not push Lesnar! Not saying that as a Lesnar fan but aside from mic skills he literally had it all! And the mic skills problem was nipped insanely early on with Paul Heyman.

Sheamus and Del Rio also got huge pushes early on for almost no reason, it seemed like Del Rio was on TV for a couple months and won the 40 man Rumble. Sheamus was on TV for a couple months and became world champion, not too mention he also won the Royal Rumble really early on.

But, someone I don't think has been mentioned yet, how about Orton? He had been around for what a month before he got his shoulder injury. He started interrupting segments and then when he returned he joined Evolution. He then got fed all sorts of legends, a killer gimmick(haha) and a spot on a faction that in essence promised he'd be a main eventer. At 24 he won the World Heavyweight title(when it was debatable to say it was just as prestigious as the WWE title) from Chris Benoit. Yes he lost the belt within a month but then he feuded with Triple H beating him last at Survivor Series. Within months from that he was given a feud with the Undertaker. So within 3 years of his debut(about as long as Reigns has been around) he won the IC, WHT titles(2 more single belts than Reigns) and feuded with countless legends and had 2 huge spots against Triple H and Undertaker.

Look at his wins at the big 4 PPV's:
SummerSlam 2003 he was in the Elimination Chamber
Survivor Series 2003 won the traditional tag match for his team eliminating RVD and HBK
Royal Rumble 2004 was entrant number 2, lasted 33 minutes and eliminated 5 guys
Wrestlemania 20 he beat the Rock and Sock Connection, scoring the pin on Foley
SummerSlam 2004 he won the World Heavyweight title
Survivor Series 2004 won the traditional tag match for his team eliminating Edge and Triple H
Royal Rumble 2005 lost a world title match against Triple H to wrap up their feud
Wrestlemania 21 he lost to Undertaker, but who hasn't at Mania aside from Lesnar?

I think my point has been made?

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

I definitely agree Lesnar got one of the most insane pushes, but like others have said...he deserved it. You couldn't really, not push Lesnar! Not saying that as a Lesnar fan but aside from mic skills he literally had it all! And the mic skills problem was nipped insanely early on with Paul Heyman.

Sheamus and Del Rio also got huge pushes early on for almost no reason, it seemed like Del Rio was on TV for a couple months and won the 40 man Rumble. Sheamus was on TV for a couple months and became world champion, not too mention he also won the Royal Rumble really early on.

But, someone I don't think has been mentioned yet, how about Orton? He had been around for what a month before he got his shoulder injury. He started interrupting segments and then when he returned he joined Evolution. He then got fed all sorts of legends, a killer gimmick(haha) and a spot on a faction that in essence promised he'd be a main eventer. At 24 he won the World Heavyweight title(when it was debatable to say it was just as prestigious as the WWE title) from Chris Benoit. Yes he lost the belt within a month but then he feuded with Triple H beating him last at Survivor Series. Within months from that he was given a feud with the Undertaker. So within 3 years of his debut(about as long as Reigns has been around) he won the IC, WHT titles(2 more single belts than Reigns) and feuded with countless legends and had 2 huge spots against Triple H and Undertaker.

Look at his wins at the big 4 PPV's:
SummerSlam 2003 he was in the Elimination Chamber
Survivor Series 2003 won the traditional tag match for his team eliminating RVD and HBK
Royal Rumble 2004 was entrant number 2, lasted 33 minutes and eliminated 5 guys
Wrestlemania 20 he beat the Rock and Sock Connection, scoring the pin on Foley
SummerSlam 2004 he won the World Heavyweight title
Survivor Series 2004 won the traditional tag match for his team eliminating Edge and Triple H
Royal Rumble 2005 lost a world title match against Triple H to wrap up their feud
Wrestlemania 21 he lost to Undertaker, but who hasn't at Mania aside from Lesnar?

I think my point has been made?

Randy Orton is an interesting choice.

He was definitely pushed very hard - and pushed to the top, too soon.

When he won the title from Benoit in 2004 and got kicked out of Evolution, they wanted him to be their #1 babyface. The problem was he wasn't ready for that spot and he couldn't connect with the fans.

The difference here though is that WWE adjusted - recognized he wasn't ready and let him continue to marinate while they pushed Batista and Cena instead. Eventually Orton got there - no doubt, but not in 2004/2005.

It will be interesting what they do with Reigns if his run with the title is a flop. Do they take it off him and let him chase it - while growing naturally? Or do they shove him down our throats?

 

[Dave]

It's been said before but the last time someone was given a push like Roman has was Brock Lesnar. It's funny how the two men are like a parallel of each other and are facing off in the main event of WrestleMania more than a decade apart from their first push, huh?

A couple of other names come to mind, like The Rock, John Cena and Kurt Angle. But honestly, all three of those guys showed that they could be superstars in every aspect of their game. Not o of were they super over with the crowd, their talents were clear for everyone to see. With Reigns, it's almost scary how alike he and Lesnar are. Lesnar could barely cut a promo to save himself a decade ago and he still has Heyman do all of his talking to this day. But he had "it" and he had the look. And most importantly, the WWE believed in him more than anything. So the comparisons between Lesnar and Reigns are striking really.

 

[DB-Fan]

Had to bring this back up because last night Mark Henry got on the "Roman Reigns is the most awesome wrestler ever" bandwagon.

Unbelievable. I just can't believe Vince is going this far to try and legitimize Reigns to the WWE Universe.