When and Why Do You Think the WWE and WHC Were Devalued? | Page 2 | WrestleZone Forums

When and Why Do You Think the WWE and WHC Were Devalued?

Sometimes I feel like I'm just waiting for Cena to win the strap again. I mean the WWE championship is still the same custom belt he used when he was champ a few years back minus the spinning.

I feel like MITB has been one cause. At first it was top guys like Edge and Punk winning. Its ok to have some upper midcard guys like Kofi and Swagger in there but once they started letting them win to force them into main event status it hurt.

We also haven't really had a credible heel champion in a while. Del Rio is a good in ring worker but he doesn't get the heat one of the top heels should. Henry could have been a good heel champ for Smackdown but he got hurt so I can't place all the blame on the writers there.

Plus as someone said it seems that it hot potatoes a lot, with Cena and Orton being two guys who hold it the most.
 
Echoing similar sentiments in this thread, the top tier championship was devalued when it was divided by two. I've always been a firm believer that the brand extension was a failed experiment that went on for far too long, and when the WWE has it so one of their supposedly most coveted prizes is being contested for on the opening match of the card (a la Edge vs. Del Rio at WM), it becomes glaringly obvious that there is no need for two championships at that level.
Maybe the WWE hasn't just got the star power at the moment to build up towards a unification match, but one can remain hopeful for something like the thirtieth Wrestlemania.

I too hope for this. I understand the brand extension when it happened. They had just had a lot of guys come over from WCW and they needed a way for everyone to get a fair stake at TV time. It did force some guys into main event status that weren't ready but at first the brand extension served its purpose and the draft was interesting. It had a feel that Raw was against Smackdown. It was a battle

It has run its course though and I'm glad they are slowing phasing back into one brand.
 
There is only one real answer to this question, I think. I think the WWE and World Titles were starting their decline when Brock Lesnar won the Undisputed WWE / WCW Championship. As soon as Stephanie announced that he would not be facing Triple H for the Undisputed World Championship, I knew there was something wrong. As soon as Eric Bischoff came out with a velvet Belt bag, I knew there was something wrong. When Triple H was awarded the WCW half of the Undisputed Title, that’s when I think the Titles were devalued. Ever since then, I looked at the WWE Champion as # 1 A and the World Champion as # 1 B. I understand what they tried to do, but you can’t realistically try to compare Raw’s WWE Title to WWF’s WWF Title and Smackdown’s World Title to WCW’s WCW Title. So, in conclusion, the answer is, the day after SummerSlam 2002.

Absolutely agreed and exactly what I was gonna say. It is unbelievably stupid to have two "World Champions" in the same company even if they are on semi seperate shows. Even keeping both the US title and IC title is stupid but it makes more sense to have two mid card titles to build stars with than two main event titles.
 
I too hope for this. I understand the brand extension when it happened. They had just had a lot of guys come over from WCW and they needed a way for everyone to get a fair stake at TV time. It did force some guys into main event status that weren't ready but at first the brand extension served its purpose and the draft was interesting. It had a feel that Raw was against Smackdown. It was a battle

It has run its course though and I'm glad they are slowing phasing back into one brand.

The brand extension worked at first because there was an overwhelming amount of main even caliber talent in the WWE, that however is no longer the case. You don't need to seperate shows anymore and I think they have proven that with the RAW Supershow formula. I so miss the days of following one story from Monday to Friday (well actually Thursday).
 
The brand extension worked at first because there was an overwhelming amount of main even caliber talent in the WWE, that however is no longer the case. You don't need to seperate shows anymore and I think they have proven that with the RAW Supershow formula. I so miss the days of following one story from Monday to Friday (well actually Thursday).

Which is another contributing factor to the diluting of the prestige of the titles; there just isn't enough time to fully build feuds going into PPVs.
Back before the brand split there was a tried and tested, but popular, formula for booking feuds before big events: heel gets upper hand on Raw, face retaliates on Smackdown, vice versa the next week, and so on, until the go-home show where they're on opposing sides in a tag match where THEY FINALLY GET A PIECE OF EACH OTHER... WHO WILL WALK OUT WITH THE GOLD THIS SUNDAY..., etc.
 
i think the one of the problems is the wwe championship looks like a child's play thing. with out the spinning it's slightly better but it doesn't look like a legitamate championship belt. the world heavyweight belt looks more legit but it's only an omage to the wcw belt. for a promotion to have two top teir belts is good in theory but when your main event teir only has five established guys how can you split that in two and still have a decent championship picture. also having an omega teir filled with guys who "don't need the belt" is the type of thinking that lowers the value in itself. if anything guys like hhh and taker should be fighting for the belt and holding it for long periods of time until a guy's like punk ziggler or the miz can solidify themselves in the title picture.

now i'm going to say something that will piss most everyone here off. CM punk is a glorified mid carder. what has he done aside from cut a pretty cool promo? now i'm not saying this is his fault. wwe has done it self a huge disservice by allowing cena to have ten (?) championship reigns while there was still some guys who where legit in the public eye.

the youth movement has happened far too fast and there is no one still around to make these young guys stars. if the wwe were smart they would bring in guys like foley jericho taker hhh goldberg lesnar bret and who ever else they could that has some star power left and have them work programs for the next year and legitamize the young guys.

guys with history like big show and kane should not be mid carders. ok i know that show ran a program with henry and kane is fueding with cena but that didn't happen until just a few months ago. henry needs to reaffirm himself cuz he was doing a great job and could have helped bring up a new main event teir.
 
i think the one of the problems is the wwe championship looks like a child's play thing. with out the spinning it's slightly better but it doesn't look like a legitamate championship belt. the world heavyweight belt looks more legit but it's only an omage to the wcw belt.
Exactly. Its rediculous to have the WCW belt as a WWE championship.. I don't understand how if the Undisputed title was de unified one belt came out looking like the WCW title but the other didn't come out looking like the WWF title.. The WWE title belt is okay but it could be better. This whole rapper bling bling criticism isn't why im pushing for a new design, I'm just tired of it and when Cena's customozation of choice remains years and years after his innitial reign that makes implications..
for a promotion to have two top teir belts is good in theory but when your main event teir only has five established guys how can you split that in two and still have a decent championship picture. also having an omega teir filled with guys who "don't need the belt" is the type of thinking that lowers the value in itself. if anything guys like hhh and taker should be fighting for the belt and holding it for long periods of time until a guy's like punk ziggler or the miz can solidify themselves in the title picture.
if it comes down to everyone having a reign to their credit then the new boast will be "i had it for more days" or "i had it for more months".
Whats it matter if you have 5 guys deserving? You've already kinda complained about the belt being passed around too much, 5 guys split between two brands would prevent that, and from 1984-88 there was one champ, from 1978-84 it was a one man title picture, from 1963-71 and '71 to '73 it was likewise.. Its not like having one champion caliber wrestling or 2 or 3 is a bad thing or ever hurt any promotion..
The problem with Miz is you had to give him the belt to make him good enough to have the belt.. Without him growing with the belt he would have never had championship viability in the future to recapture it or anything else. Ziggler reminds me of what Mr. Perfect was probably like in his prime. Ziggler's WHC reign is a footnote in WWE like Hennig's AWA World title reign is a footnote on WWE.COM.. Its only use is when your debating with your fellow stat crunchers..
now i'm going to say something that will piss most everyone here off. CM punk is a glorified mid carder. what has he done aside from cut a pretty cool promo? now i'm not saying this is his fault. wwe has done it self a huge disservice by allowing cena to have ten (?) championship reigns while there was still some guys who where legit in the public eye.
I can tell too but what of it? His prime did not occur in an era that would had destroyed a guy like him so what of it? If he had rose thru the ranks 7 years prior he would be on slippery footing..

Who cares if he had ten? There are still ways to put inflated accolates back in perspect. You had ten, Morales had 1 and that equals about seven of Cena's in days count. Cena's ten arent like a Verne Gagne ten lol. By the time he has 20 reigns he still might not equal Sammartino's day/month count. As long as he doesnt try to throw that number up in Flair's face or Hogan's we simply ignore that ten count.
the youth movement has happened far too fast and there is no one still around to make these young guys stars. if the wwe were smart they would bring in guys like foley jericho taker hhh goldberg lesnar bret and who ever else they could that has some star power left and have them work programs for the next year and legitamize the young guys.

guys with history like big show and kane should not be mid carders. ok i know that show ran a program with henry and kane is fueding with cena but that didn't happen until just a few months ago. henry needs to reaffirm himself cuz he was doing a great job and could have helped bring up a new main event teir.

They do need to bring in semi-older guys. The issue is the fan base is so new that they don't know how to react to re-debuts. If Shamrock had came back to the WWF after his stint as NWA-TNA's top title holder that would had been a big deal. If he came back today and tried to get on SD no one would understand why he was there or who he is other then us. So we cant utilize the close calls of the past because the wrestler cant utilize his name recognition if those viewing his name dont recognize it. Thats compounded by the fact that the old guys you mentioned are either late 30s or so close to their thirties that they dont feel old enough to take on a sensei role because they still have enough energy to do it themselves and the young guy is still competition so they cant struggle with him and teach him at once. i mean that in the ring and behind the scenes..

I think Henry hurt himself so we shouldnt discuss his fall from the top like he was trippin or WWE was done repaying him for servise. He hurt himself, WWE didn't tell him to tair his groin, creative didn't, he sure as hell didn't do it on purpose, he doesnt mind staying active at his age and he can do it. Wait til hes healedand we will see if hes through..

The Big Show is a clown, he looks ******ed.. They should tel him to get in his WCW shape and adopt that attitude if they want to repair the damage which of course WWE (not WCW..) actually is responsible for.

With Kane they kept cutting him down to size as he reached the last step. If I did not have to witniss Trips strip him of his mask I would view him better. But I got over that after he attacked RVD and caught J.R. on fire, but then he couldn't get any more titles and was losing to guys like Mysterio and HHH. tHE wwf was lucky to be in a position to rehabilitate Kane's image after the stunts being concocted by creative featuring Kane getting his gf stolen and getting swirved on by his tag team partner(s).. That would not had been too bad had I not witnissed him about 2 years prior beating Austin for the WWF title in his prime and during the peak of the Attitude Era and the dominance he showed between 1997-9. The fans got what I will call "sea saw fatigue" and that eroded his credibility to a level that a maineventer can not survive on. so now the mainevent is closed off to him..:icon_neutral:

The issue also is Raw guys and SD guys were jumping brands too much. It became to easy to go in between brands. You know how hard it is to go between the AFC and NFC? If you got Raw guys on SD like its 1999 then the brand is viewed as a show and not a subsidiery promotion.. So then the respective titles are viewed as show titles. then the fact that the titles were switching brands hurt. The draft lottery should had been held ever 3 years and its majority purpose should had been to see what ECW brand guy was leaving for greener pastures. Rookies should had been the majority of people jumping ship every year. The WWE tag team titles should had stayed brand specific to prevent interbrand contact. Of course WWE reavhed a point were it promoted lopsided duos simultaniously so then they would need the unified tag team title to be interbrand so the lesser one could use that to jump ship and we not have to see them war over the same top belt. If they come up at the same time and one gets the edge it usually is a death blow to the "Jannetty"..
 
I agree with the consensus that when they decided to have two world titles it devalued them. I also see the wwe title as the main belt and the heavyweight title as more of a silver medal.
There should really only be 1 world champion even when theres a brand split, they always had double branded ppv's anyway like summerslam etc so having two belts is stupid. There's supposed to be angst anticipation built up from not seeing a champion fight so often, thats how people like Hogan became "gods".
A case of too many chiefs and not enough Indians.
 
I agree with the consensus that when they decided to have two world titles it devalued them. I also see the wwe title as the main belt and the heavyweight title as more of a silver medal.
There should really only be 1 world champion even when theres a brand split, they always had double branded ppv's anyway like summerslam etc so having two belts is stupid. There's supposed to be angst anticipation built up from not seeing a champion fight so often, thats how people like Hogan became "gods".
A case of too many chiefs and not enough Indians.

nah its not the silver medal its like in boxing or MMA when theres a champion and then some other guy is award an interim title and interim belt. the WHC kinda has that bizarre value to it, somewhere between gold and silver, like its white gold or something.
 
It's not like they pulled a WCW and gave the belt to some actor thats not even relavent anymore.

I think all the belts are relevant still, thats not saying I think some people dont deserve them but thats my opinion. But if something did make them depreciate I would say the fact that wrestlers really dont have to wait no more. It took HBK, taker, HHH, and in Austin years. Now its more of pick a name out of a hat for this month. But thats the only problem I have is the quickness wrestlers get the belt now a days.
 
Two things that put major devalue in the heavyweight title

I feel is when JBL won the title. One week he was apart of the APA and the next week he's JBL fueding for the title. I'm sure in 2003 there wasn't a single one of us who thought Bradshaw would be the champ one day. Its the fact that he had no established singles run he was never that good when he was in the APA and he wasn't that good when he was the champ. If his run was like Del Rio's current title run I wouldn't have had as much of a problem with it but JBL held the title for almost a whole year and he beat every top guy that year too. People always say how JBL got good heel reaction and was a good character, people wern't booing him because he was a heel people knew wasn't good enough to be at the top and no one wanted him around.

The next thing that devalues the belt to this day is that stupid spinner belt.

I didn't have a problem with it when John Cena first started carrying it but after he lost when everyone else started to carry it thats when they lost credibility in the belt. It just makes the belt look like a prop I was so excited when Punk said when he's going to change the belt when he wins and he won it and nothing happened I was a big fan of the belt they had before the spinner. Look at the U.S. title after John Cena lost the belt they went back to old belt. That spinner belt doesn't fit Punk at all.
 
They get devalued when they get hot-shotted around to try to get guys over because their sh!tty booking didn't get the job done. When everyone and their mother held a world title (Daniel Bryan, Jack Swagger, Dolph Ziggler) then winning it doesn't mean much. Legends like Mr. Perfect, Million Dollar Man, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Rick Rude, Razor Ramon, Jake 'The Snake' Roberts, Rick Martel, etc. never held the WWE Title, and hardly anyone on the current "talent" roster is in their league. On a related note, having 2 World Titles doesn't help matters any, for the same reason in that it seems everyone gets a reign these days.
 
The title started to get devalued during the Attitude Era. Thats when they started playing hot potatoe with the wwe title. They did after MITB this year. Punk, Mysterio, Cena, Punk, Del Rio, Cena, Del Rio and currently Punk. I think that was the order of them winning the title all in a couple of months. I think switching the title that many times in a short time frame hurts the value of the title.

Also, one title gets devalued when they do joint shows. Its just makes one title look inferior. Great example is Edge vs ADR opening WM.

I do wish they unify the WWE and World title. And just have the current champ work both Raw and Smackdown. I think that would help the main event scene. Their is not enough legit main event talent to have 2 seperate titles.
 
There was a time when the WH title seemed more important. When it was on Raw. Honestly, I didn't like what they did when Punk left with the title after MITB. They just immediately made a new title. Like they could just print championship belts? They should have showed true concern as if it was the only belt. They should have sent guys after him in indy promotions or something, not just print up a copy of the belt and call it the title. They should have said, "Unless someone retrieves the belt from punk or he comes back, There is no more wwe championship in the wwe. Punk is wwe champion and his contract expired so he is gone and he keeps the belt"
 
If anything, the titles probably hold more value now than before. There aren't very many guys who can keep a story interesting without a title, and for a lot of them its their only way to be a focal point of the show. I think the wrestlers are the ones who have been devalued.

With every new heel we've seen basically the same rise. An amazingly cheap and possibly confusing title win followed by a few months of even cheaper title defenses. I get that people think that's the only way to push a heel, but its lead to a group of underwhelming champions.

Money in the bank was fine, once, but besides RVD it's another thing that has made it hard to care for new champs. We see it way too often...
 
Money in the Bank is a big credibility killer. It worked well with Edge, because it defined his character, after that, it's become cliche and rather boring. Edge and RVD were the only two wrestler to ever do anything remotely interesting with MITB, other then that, the entire concept has been a bore. Now we don't have the guy that has never won the big one busting his ass to get the top. Instead, he wins a briefcase, beats a beaten down opponent, has a weak title reign, and is ultimately forgotten.

Also add the complete death of the Brand Extension. Sometime after Cena and Batista swapped shows, the WWE decided to mix together Raw and Smackdown more frequently. The first few years of the Brand Extension were awesome with regards to the exclusive nature of each show. Smackdown had a feel to it, Raw had a unique feel to it. They were clearly two different shows with different styles, and each champion brought something unique to that show. Now, we have two champions that show up on each show, and the titles have become bland.
 
You are so right with the brand extensions I was really into it at first but now its's pointless I liked it better when it was only around wrestlemania they did interbrand angles I hate the Raw Supershow because now they have even less time to help build new talent that do poorlly the titles are more like props now
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
174,846
Messages
3,300,837
Members
21,727
Latest member
alvarosamaniego
Back
Top