Whats wrong with wrestling these days?

Big Fella

That Dude
I've seen a lot of threads lately discussing what is wrong with Wrestling these days? Some argue the Attitude Era killed wrestling, some think the IWC and spoilers killed wrestling, there are several different theories. The fact is, the current product is "struggling" right now because the people doing are simply not as good as the people that did it before.

No matter which theory you personally subscribe to, you have to accept that as a symptom rather than the cause. I will make a concession myself.
It is harder to have a successful and entertaining product today than it was 20 years ago. Part of this is because the business has been exposed. Part of this is because the increased television time, and PPV slots to fill. Part of this is even because of the invention of HD creating the necessity to for moves to be crisper to look realistic. And while it is more difficult to create entertainment for these reasons, none of the reasons are the cause, again, they are symptoms.

To me, the biggest talent disparity between today and 20 years ago is the announcers. There was a thread a few months ago criticizing the work of Gorilla Monsoon. I grew up with Gorilla and am fond of his work as a result. But again, I'm willing to make a concession. Monsoon was not as talented of a play by play guy as Jim Ross.

But Monsoon was very effective at getting over angles. And while his PBP was not up to par for today's standards, there are no color commentators as good as guys like Bobby Heenan and Jesse the Body. It does not matter which announcing team the WWF threw out there in the 80's and early 90's, the banter between Monsoon or McMahon or whoever was on PBP and the color guy was fantastic.

I've been watching old PPV's in order from Wrestlemania 3 recently, and the commentary units as a whole were vastly superior back in the day.

The next biggest talent disparity can be found with the wrestlers themselves. I feel safe in saying that todays wrestlers are more athletic, take higher risks, and generally do more complex moves than their 80's counterparts. Yet despite of all this, their matches for the most part are not as entertaining.

20 years ago everything a wrestler did meant something. It is interesting to go back and watch a match build, and take notes of how many closed fist punches were thrown compared today, and what juncture of the match the first one was thrown. They meant something. Watch when the first bump was. Watch when 3 bumps in quick succession was the highspot of the match. These things are executed differently these days, and not in the most a good way.

In addition, many of these wrestlers are too green and inexperienced to tell a good story, or cut a good promo, which is why the are working harder to less of a reaction.

There is also a huge talent disparity as far as who is booking the show.

In some cases, the bookers are the same, which could be part of the problem. Too often angles are hot-shotted and poorly put together. While there are far more PPVs today than 20 years ago. But where is there a rule stating a storyline has to start and end within the boundary of 1 pay per view? Recently they gave Jericho/Michaels several months and it has been the best feud in a long time, IMO. There are ways through known allies, stables, managers, to have wrestlers involved with each-other, without putting them in the ring. Fans used to WANT to see a specific match. Wrestlers were kept apart from each other until fans were salivating to see it. Through creative booking the match used to sell itself, where as now they plug it at every opportunity they get for a ridiculous price +10 for HD. I'm not going to harp on brand extension, but I'm not accepting that there are too many superstars to be on one show. Part of a way to carry on an angle would be to not feature every star every week. Sure we all want to see Triple H every week, but holding him out just to further an angle every once in a while would go a long way in creating a larger demand. It would also give more television time to mid-card performers that have no real gimmicks or hot angles or feuds going on.

People talk a lot about the lack of importance of the midcard belts these days, but thats because mid-card workers themselves are unimportant. Again, a symptom. Very rarely are they unique or well-developed characters that the fans really care about. This is a combination of the talent being called up too soon, and creative not being really creative. When the proper time was devoted to the midcard, people cared about it. I really like what I've seen out of Kofi Kingston as a wrestler, but I've seen no development of his character since his debut and no real reason to care about him. Some of the most interesting angles to me as a kid were the mid-card feud.

Another symptom is tag-team wrestling, which because tag-teams rarely main event is essentially because of the erosion of detail when it comes to the mid-card.

People want to blame the IWC but there have been "smarks" for a lot longer than the internet has been around. And even when it was just Bob Ryder and a few of us other geeks on Prodigy spoilers were out there. I would even argue that the IWC helped further the Attitude Era as much as the Attitude Era helped furhter the IWC.

You don't like wrestling as much anymore because you read spoilers or you knew Christian was going to debut. You don't like it as much anymore because it simply isn't as good.
 
pure and simple - not enough wrestling 'moves' anyone. everytime i watch these days they seem to have pushed another puncher/sloberknocker up there. i saw a survivor series 1995 video the other day and even the crap wrestlers had a decent repetoire of moves.

don't get me wrong, it's still pretty fun - at first i thought the whole talking for 20 minutes on raw before fighting was a bit tedious, but i've kinda got used to that. i still miss them getting down to action straight away like things used to be in the 90's but i guess thats something that comes with the wwe's rising popularity.

there's definitely a lack of characters to what there used to be. the eccentric wrestler has gone out of fashion which is a shame - goldust seems to be the only one who's weathered the storm but even he's mid card at best these day - compare this to 96 when they almost pushed him to the stars. And he's a very good wrestler. in recent years i've seen guys like chris masters, bobby lashley, batista etc who all seem to have had a charisma bypass.

it's just different to the way it used to be, and maybe im just a bit nostalgic. it's just a shame all the guys that are pushed these days fit such a small and specific criteria, and it's a bit predictable.

I like edge though, I'm glad to see that guy make it big. But cena, batista - not my cup of tea, and not that great to watch imo.
 
The problem with wrestling today is that what we see is not really good wrestling. In today's society, where people have basically zero attention span, wrestling has been vamped up to a pace that borders on illogical, and removes all excitement from a match.

I'm not advocating the days where guys would lay on the mat for 3 hours and do nothing, but there is a very definite difference between the pacing of a match now, and pacing 20 years ago. And the up-temp pacing leads to matches that seem almost illogical now. I don't remember who it was, possibility Gilbertti, who talked about how the "working" in wrestling has been toned down incredibly.

People always complain about "restholds", but those people don't understand those weren't restholds as much as they were actually WORKING the crowd. Putting someone in a reverse chinlock is believable, it's real, and it advances the story. But, today, wrestling fans don't want that, they just want guys who run a lot and do things that take realism out of wrestling.

The problem with wrestling these days is the quality of the wrestlers, and their ability to put on a match. And the biggest problem they have is the unrealistic pacing of their matches, and the lack of time dedicated to actually working the match and telling the story.
 
I've seen a lot of threads lately discussing what is wrong with Wrestling these days? Some argue the Attitude Era killed wrestling, some think the IWC and spoilers killed wrestling, there are several different theories. The fact is, the current product is "struggling" right now because the people doing are simply not as good as the people that did it before.

No matter which theory you personally subscribe to, you have to accept that as a symptom rather than the cause. I will make a concession myself.
It is harder to have a successful and entertaining product today than it was 20 years ago. Part of this is because the business has been exposed. Part of this is because the increased television time, and PPV slots to fill. Part of this is even because of the invention of HD creating the necessity to for moves to be crisper to look realistic. And while it is more difficult to create entertainment for these reasons, none of the reasons are the cause, again, they are symptoms.

To me, the biggest talent disparity between today and 20 years ago is the announcers. There was a thread a few months ago criticizing the work of Gorilla Monsoon. I grew up with Gorilla and am fond of his work as a result. But again, I'm willing to make a concession. Monsoon was not as talented of a play by play guy as Jim Ross.

But Monsoon was very effective at getting over angles. And while his PBP was not up to par for today's standards, there are no color commentators as good as guys like Bobby Heenan and Jesse the Body. It does not matter which announcing team the WWF threw out there in the 80's and early 90's, the banter between Monsoon or McMahon or whoever was on PBP and the color guy was fantastic.

I've been watching old PPV's in order from Wrestlemania 3 recently, and the commentary units as a whole were vastly superior back in the day.

Yeah, I totally agree with you on that. I've been watching all the SNMEs in order and the NWA/ WCW PPVs in order.

Jesse Ventura's color commentary is off the charts good. Some of his one liners on SNME have left me open mouthed. There's this one segment where Mene Gene is interviewing Jake Roberts w/ Damien and his hand his shaking because he's scared of the snake.

*Cut to Jesse and Vince.*

Ventura: "What was that in his hand a microphone or a vibrator?"

*McMahon winces.*

It's just dynamite.

I particularly love it when Hogan is posing in the ring or whatever and Jesse just says exactly what's on my mind. Heenan was good too, but for different reasons. I can't think of another color analyst who can touch those two.

Like I said, I've also been watching NWA/ WCW PPVs and young Jim Ross again is off the charts good. Not just all the technical info, but stuff like the guy's amateur background, who trained him, maybe his college and pro-football accolades. I mean it just makes it all seem so legitimate. FANTASTIC play-by-play which just goes to show you what JR is like if he's free of the WWE cuffs.

My all-time dream-team would be Jim Ross from back then and Jesse Ventura, which WCW HAD for about a year in 1991-2. Didn't know how lucky they were.

The next biggest talent disparity can be found with the wrestlers themselves. I feel safe in saying that todays wrestlers are more athletic, take higher risks, and generally do more complex moves than their 80's counterparts. Yet despite of all this, their matches for the most part are not as entertaining.

20 years ago everything a wrestler did meant something. It is interesting to go back and watch a match build, and take notes of how many closed fist punches were thrown compared today, and what juncture of the match the first one was thrown. They meant something. Watch when the first bump was. Watch when 3 bumps in quick succession was the highspot of the match. These things are executed differently these days, and not in the most a good way.

Again, spot on. I think this comes down to a mixture of inexperience (as you go on to say), poor booking (ditto), and the difficulty of "going back" after the extremity of the Attitude era elevated high-spot monkeys to main event status.

In addition, many of these wrestlers are too green and inexperienced to tell a good story, or cut a good promo, which is why the are working harder to less of a reaction.

You can put this partly down to the death of the territory system (WWE's fault), partly down to the lack of competition (WCW's fault), and partly down to the way wrestling is booked now.

Back in the day, someone like Curt Hennig would learn their stripes in somewhere like the AWA before coming to the WWF "a ready made pro" - not to be cheesy but he came "perfect".

When Ted DiBiase (re-)debuted for the WWF as the Million Dollar Man, he was already aged 33 and an experienced main-event pro. Compare that with his son now. I'm sure DiBiase Jr. has talent and a love of the game etc, but it's very very hard to pick up decent experience under that sort of pressure.

It's what Flair and Anderson always say about Lex Luger - too much, too soon. He never completed his "training" so he never got to be the finished article, ditto Warrior, ditto Sid Justice.

Perhaps this problem has been going on longer than we'd care to acknowledge. For every Barry Windham there's at least one Sid or Warrior or Paul Roma, or whoever -- people who never paid their dues or learned their trade.

From what I understand people like Cena, Orton, Rhodes and so on all have really professional attitudes, which some of those guys I've just listed there didn't. But you can't teach experience, and the worry is that they'll all become Luger's (i.e. stunted in their development).

There is also a huge talent disparity as far as who is booking the show.

Is it still Michael P.S. Hayes?

People talk a lot about the lack of importance of the midcard belts these days, but thats because mid-card workers themselves are unimportant. Again, a symptom. Very rarely are they unique or well-developed characters that the fans really care about. This is a combination of the talent being called up too soon, and creative not being really creative. When the proper time was devoted to the midcard, people cared about it. I really like what I've seen out of Kofi Kingston as a wrestler, but I've seen no development of his character since his debut and no real reason to care about him. Some of the most interesting angles to me as a kid were the mid-card feud.

How about bringing back jobbers?
 
I kind of agree with all the points raised. I don't want to harp on when others have already made the points, but just watching a few of the classics again was just so entertaining compared to now. For starters the wrestlers had unique traits and just had much more personality than the cardboard on display today. The story lines and build up to 'the showdown' in the main events was just so much better. It meant you were dying to see the wrestlers get it on. The other issues raised are also credible - the pace of the matches enabled you to immerse yourself more into it, like a good book it had different sections which heightened or lowered the drama. Some of the wrestlers may not have had 85 moves at their disposal, but what they did was create the atmosphere, work the crowd, so that the result mattered. This is intertwined with a good story and build up.

The crowds also seemed to be immersed in the wrestling than the crowds of today. I go along with the attention span thing with the introduction of the 'I want this and want it now mom' generation. Wrestlemania 8 being a prime example, where although the crowd was huge, the noise generated was fantastic. I'm like watching wrestling now and I'm just so dis-interested. There's no one that excited me, no-one that I can about their story lines. I briefly got back into wrestling during the Attitude era, the whole Stone Cold / Rock type phase. At least they generated some noise.

Another point which couldn't have been put better by the original poster is the commentary team. It's just so dull. Give me Gorilla, Heenan, Ventura any day of the week. They have their critics but they make even the average matches watchable. Flair v Macho Man when the whole Elizabeth thing was on, Steamboat v Macho Man, Warrior and Hogan match, Bret Hart matches, Flair....I could go on. It was the perfect mix - the crowd, the stories, the suspense, the characters, the commentary and match pacing.

For me it's just so sad, perhaps I longed for the golden era to continue and to a certain extent I think that wrestling lost a lot even though many believe The Attitude era was needed and was the best phase for wrestling. I personally think it's produced where we are now. The crowds seem full of whiners bitching (with attitude) about everything, sometimes it seems going there not to get involved. The wrestlers are so wooden that it's difficult to get engaged to them (perhaps someone like Jericho is the exception). And don't get me wrong, I like looking at half naked chicks, it has it's place. But it seems like wrestling has just become so vile, perhaps reflecting society and the 'crowd' it needs to attract now to make money. Give me Ted Dibiase/Rude/Hart/Macho man et al, any day.

PS - I sincerely hope wrestling can capture my imagination again, I'm a self employed IT Tech working from home, and to pass the time I need some stimulation away from progress bars and percentages!?!
 
Here's my opinion...

There will be sporadic moments of good wrestling that I see from time to time on WWE, TNA & AAA, and whatever YouTube clip I come across with wrestling.

I'd like to see more moves to be done in a match, but I don't think they'll do that.

There are a few wrestlers that I'm a fan of because they pull of all of these moves & know how to get the crowd into it as well.

That's what I'd like to see, but only a few deliver.
 

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