Whats Wrong With A$$ In WWE??

[Slyfox696]

There isn't — I'm insinuating it, which I can understand can be viewed as a fault on my part because their intended audience could actually be sponsorships and advertisers, but even if that's the case, there's a reason those sponsors and advertisers themselves don't want that language used — it causes a stir among parents/children, so "the betterment of children" is still the reason, albeit potentially indirect.

There's a lot of things that go into it, mostly money. The WWE does what they think will bring them the most money. And before the Attitude fans jump up and scream about how much money the WWE made ten years ago, keep in mind that if the USA Network threw the WWE off their network, they wouldn't be making that much money.

Of course I am, but I'm also not the only one who feels this way. The WWE has lost a shit ton of fans since the Attitude Era, and those who've stuck around and the occasional returning fan all tend to point to the same reason — the PG rating and the loss of the programming "edge".

But those fans are wrong. The WWE didn't LOSE a bunch of fans, they just gained a bunch of fairweather fans during the Attitude Era. Those fans were temporary, just like they are for any hit show. Glee is hugely popular right now, but in 5 years, it may not even be on TV anymore. Survivor was the only thing anyone could ever talk about, and I'm not sure it's even around any more.

The WWE was no different than those shows. They became a hit show, everyone flocked to watch and be involved...until the next big craze hit and most of those people moved on. The wrestling business is no smaller now than it was from 1990-1998. For a period of about 5 years, wrestling got huge, but then it died off, and we're right back to where we are.

As far as losing the "edge"...what else is the WWE supposed to do? They had a guy pretend to have sex with a corpse and an 80 year old woman give birth to a hand. Just how much further could the WWE go to maintain their "edge"? That's just not an argument which holds up when examined closely. The WWE had to BACKTRACK because all of the things which were "edgy" at the time, would no longer be considered edgy any more. They lost their shock value, which as I said, was the basis for the popularity of the Attitude Era.

Little things like censoring "ass" do a lot more damage than you think to any fringe fans trying to either remain faithful to WWE or regain faith in the company by re-watching the program they may have grown up on. You're in the minority of "pleased" fans with this product.

Obviously I'm not in the minority, because 4-5 million people watch the WWE every Monday night in the US, and millions more around the world. And that's not taking into account all the live streaming and BitTorrents.

Obviously I'm not in the minority.

If the whole "PG" thing wasn't for the "Children" and to attract a "Younger" audience than what was it for?

I've already told you...making money. Please the network so they can please advertisers. Pleasing the stockholders who help keep the WWE afloat.

Look at the ratings, they've been on a steady decline over the last few years.

Which follows the steady INCLINE they had from 2004-2007. Notice the decline came immediately after the Chris Benoit double murder/suicide and the steroid scandal a couple months later.

To simply look at ratings as a judge of whether or not PG is successful is just too narrow minded.

Ratings would agree that IDR and Myself aren't the only ones who feel this way, other wise ratings would be telling a different story.

Monday Night Raw consistently is in the Top 5 of cable TV ratings every week.

I would argue then that ratings agree with me, not you and IDR.

 

[Marv95]

Um, they censored "ass" numerous times during the Attitude Era. On Raw and SD. Censors might feel it's a stronger curse word than hell and damn although it's way tamer than the other 2 four-letter words.

But who cares? That was the best WWE promo since 2006.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

I've already told you...making money. Please the network so they can please advertisers. Pleasing the stockholders who help keep the WWE afloat.

Right, but they weren't having any kind of money problems before hand, and USA had to be pleased with the amazing amount of viewers that Raw brought in on a weekly basis. There stock value has also fallen fallen since going PG. The Money, the Network and the stockholders where all in fine hands before deciding to go PG. Going with the if it ain't broke don't fix it logic there has to be something more than just the basic rungs on the business latter.

Which follows the steady INCLINE they had from 2004-2007. Notice the decline came immediately after the Chris Benoit double murder/suicide and the steroid scandal a couple months later.

So what you're saying is that everything you stated above is completely false, or just a cover up for the "Real" reason for the "PG Era", that being the Beniot fiasco.

To simply look at ratings as a judge of whether or not PG is successful is just too narrow minded.

Ratings may not tell whole story, but they certainly tell some of it, Perhaps The WWE did lose a chunk of viewership because of the Beniot incident, and maybe that was the motive for going PG; but don't you think that the PG target audience is going to be harder to reach after something so disturbing takes place in your company. In hindsight it would have made more sense to continue feeding your target audience, instead of revamping the entire product because 1 man made a mistake.

Looking deeper into the rating may show you one thing, but they don't lie about overall viewership being down.

Monday Night Raw consistently is in the Top 5 of cable TV ratings every week.

I would argue then that ratings agree with me, not you and IDR.

I remember a time when Monday Night Raw was THE HIGHEST rated weekly program in it's time slot, with out fail. Every. Single. Week. While obviously being in the top five on a weekly basis is very respectable, it's certainly not number 1.

The rating can tell all kinds of story's, but as far as the viewership story goes, the numbers don't lie. In fact, the numbers have been on a steady decline over the last two years, in a time where you can't blame Beniot, you can only blame the current product. The fact still remains that the WWE had all but abandoned their main target audience, Adult Males.

Adult males have been the driving force behind professional wrestling ratings since practically the dawn of Pro wrestling on T.V. When you all of the sudden decide to leave that group out in the cold, no longer catering to any of their want and needs, they are no longer going to support your product. So when the biggest supporters of Pro wrestling, adult males are no longer watching your product like they once did the rating are going to be affected.

So you can twist the ratings story any way you'd like; but the fact remains, the WWE stopped catering to their #1 target audience, and in turn that target audience stopped watching their programming, leading to decreased ratings.

 

[Slyfox696]

Right, but they weren't having any kind of money problems before hand, and USA had to be pleased with the amazing amount of viewers that Raw brought in on a weekly basis. There stock value has also fallen fallen since going PG. The Money, the Network and the stockholders where all in fine hands before deciding to go PG. Going with the if it ain't broke don't fix it logic there has to be something more than just the basic rungs on the business latter.

But it was broke, because we saw a DRASTIC change in business after the summer of 2007, when Benoit committed his actions. I have all the ratings for you in the General Wrestling forum, go look at what happens before and after Benoit's actions. Up to the point Benoit was accused of double murder/suicide, Raw was averaging roughly a 3.9 rating...after I think it was something like a 3.3 rating. And it's never shown significant improvement since.

It wasn't the PG that took the ratings down. PG was their attempt to get their ratings back UP after the Benoit and steroid scandals made them look terrible.

So what you're saying is that everything you stated above is completely false, or just a cover up for the "Real" reason for the "PG Era", that being the Beniot fiasco.

No, I'm saying it's all connected. The whole goal of the WWE is to make money. Do you dispute this? I'm assuming not, so let's go on.

After the Benoit and steroid scandals, the WWE looked BAD. Eddie Guerrero had died in 2005 due to steroid complications, and the WWE instituted a Wellness Policy which obviously was ineffective. The result of that ineffective policy was the Benoit murders and the Sports Illustrated steroid scandals. Monday Night Raw's ratings still haven't recovered from the summer of 2007, and the perception the WWE is a nut house.

So, to make the most amount of money, the WWE works towards the PG label. It makes the network happy, which makes NBC Universal happy. They don't get investigated by Congress, the FCC largely doesn't care now, and the WWE is probably making the most money possible in such a poor worldwide economy.

It's all connected. And to say the reason ratings are where they is because people aren't cussing is just silly.

Ratings may not tell whole story, but they certainly tell some of it, Perhaps The WWE did lose a chunk of viewership because of the Beniot incident, and maybe that was the motive for going PG; but don't you think that the PG target audience is going to be harder to reach after something so disturbing takes place in your company. In hindsight it would have made more sense to continue feeding your target audience, instead of revamping the entire product because 1 man made a mistake.

Looking deeper into the rating may show you one thing, but they don't lie about overall viewership being down.

Actually, ratings DON'T tell you if overall viewership is down, just that people watching it on Monday night on USA is down. You and I are both well aware of BitTorrents and streaming...viewership isn't down as much as you'd think. Is it down from where they were in 2006? Yes, but probably not as far as the ratings would have you think.

I remember a time when Monday Night Raw was THE HIGHEST rated weekly program in it's time slot, with out fail. Every. Single. Week.

Yes, that was called 2007. Before Chris Benoit.

While obviously being in the top five on a weekly basis is very respectable, it's certainly not number 1.

It is on USA Network.

I think Burn Notice used to do better ratings, and Monk, but that's it. And neither of the shows come on every single week.

The rating can tell all kinds of story's, but as far as the viewership story goes, the numbers don't lie. In fact, the numbers have been on a steady decline over the last two years, in a time where you can't blame Beniot, you can only blame the current product. The fact still remains that the WWE had all but abandoned their main target audience, Adult Males.

Adult males have been the driving force behind professional wrestling ratings since practically the dawn of Pro wrestling on T.V. When you all of the sudden decide to leave that group out in the cold, no longer catering to any of their want and needs, they are no longer going to support your product. So when the biggest supporters of Pro wrestling, adult males are no longer watching your product like they once did the rating are going to be affected.

So you can twist the ratings story any way you'd like; but the fact remains, the WWE stopped catering to their #1 target audience, and in turn that target audience stopped watching their programming, leading to decreased ratings.

Let's put it this way. If increasing ratings was simply a matter of cussing and an "edgy" and more adult product, then explain why TNA is not in the 2.0 cable ratings at this point. After all, is that not what they are doing? Do they not put out a product which does EXACTLY what you're complaining the WWE isn't doing? Why isn't their product getting better ratings, if that's all it takes?

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with TNA. The point I'm making is that cussing and adult product ISN'T going to make a huge difference in the ratings. It's NOT going to push Monday Night Raw back to the 5.0 they enjoyed in the early 2000s. It's just not. We have definitive proof of that RIGHT NOW.

So you all can blame the "low ratings" which rank in the Top 5 of cable TV ratings every week on the lack of more adult programming, while continually ignoring adult programming hasn't made a significant impact on TNA's rating. I, on the other hand, will continue pointing how flawed your reasoning is and how it lacks any objectivity or factual basis.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

It's all connected. And to say the reason ratings are where they is because people aren't cussing is just silly.

This is not what I'm saying.

I agree that this is all connected, the root here is clearly Beniot. I also understand the WWE taking measurements to avoid an entire shit storm of negative media attention, which they received for the most part anyways.

It's silly to think that words like "ass" have to be connected to the Beniot Murder/Suicide. We are also in 2011 now, the Beniot incident is practically ancient history in the eyes of the WWE. Beniot may have been the reason why WWE hopped on the PG bus, but that bus arrived at it's destination a while ago, years ago. It's like the WWE has been stuck in a stalemate over the last couple of years. Beniot is now in the past and the PG programming has just been lingering around, with no real direction. The word ass is simply one tiny aspect of wrestling that was changed, and when you pile it up with all the other changes it does make a difference.

The WWE lost Children and Family viewership because of the Beniot incident, so the go PG in an effort to build it back up, all while neglecting the Adult viewership. In turn they've been able to build up some of that audience again, but have lost some of the adult male viewership in the process. Which is why the ratings have been in such a rut, as they gain a younger audience they start to lose the older one. Perhaps now that they've gained a bit of the younger crowd back over the last couple of years they can now start to reel in some of the bigger fish and regain the balance in viewership that they once had.

I believe the WWE can still draw big, but they have to be able to pull in all audiences like they once where able to do. Bring back a bit of the adult edge (including a bit more of an adult vocabulary) and you can start netting the adult crowd who aren't interested in mat wresting and puro styles, but the ones who enjoyed the "Male Soap Opera" that the WWE was at it's peak.

 

[ctln4rko]

On Monday, When The Great One, The Brahma Bull, The Rock returned, he said shut up, had to be censored, and said ass. WWE is strongly PG, so what do you think will happen to the Rock's famous phrases?

 

[CarlSinclair]

nothing he is the rock. if they didn't want him to say ass then they wouldn't have. I have no idea why ass is even considered something that needs to be censored. you americans are way sensitive aye.

 

[Slyfox696]

It's silly to think that words like "ass" have to be connected to the Beniot Murder/Suicide.

They're not, they're connected with providing a more family friendly entertainment medium.

We are also in 2011 now, the Beniot incident is practically ancient history in the eyes of the WWE.

But not in the eye of the general public, which you've noted with the ratings being lower than they were before the incident.

Beniot may have been the reason why WWE hopped on the PG bus, but that bus arrived at it's destination a while ago, years ago. It's like the WWE has been stuck in a stalemate over the last couple of years.

Are you kidding? I think we've seen FAR more interesting programming over the last year or two than we had since the early 2000s.

Beniot is now in the past and the PG programming has just been lingering around, with no real direction.

I'm not understanding...you think the TV show rating needs to have direction?

The word ass is simply one tiny aspect of wrestling that was changed, and when you pile it up with all the other changes it does make a difference.

And I would argue for the better.

The WWE lost Children and Family viewership because of the Beniot incident

No, they lost Children and Family viewership because of the Attitude Era. To court the fairweather teenage fans, which were going to leave no matter what, they made their programming unattractive to parents with smaller children, so there's a generational gap in the WWE's audience. Hell, I was a teenager, and my parents were uncomfortable with me watching wrestling.

so the go PG in an effort to build it back up, all while neglecting the Adult viewership.

Wrestling doesn't cater to adults though, it never has. As I once said, and Uncle Chester sigged, wrestling caters to children and idiots. Not adults. The only time wrestling catered to an older audience was the Attitude Era, and once those older fans left, we saw ratings drop in half. The Attitude Era was a temporary reprieve, nothing more. It happened at EXACTLY the right time, but it was not able to be sustained.

You keep talking about ratings, but look at what ratings did in the Attitude Era. They dropped from the 6s in 2000 down to in the 3s by 2003. Audience was cut in HALF! And that's with the edgy programming and cussing.

The Attitude Era did NOT create fans, it just attracted people who were looking for the big craze, and then those people moved on. If it was all about edgy programming and cussing, then the Attitude Era style programming wouldn't have lost half of its fans.

In turn they've been able to build up some of that audience again, but have lost some of the adult male viewership in the process.

Which is not a big loss. Adult male wrestling fans tend to buy less and steal more than younger fans. Not to mention, at any time their adult lives may become busy and they quit watching. Historically, wrestling fans quit being dedicated between the ages of 21-28.

Perhaps now that they've gained a bit of the younger crowd back over the last couple of years they can now start to reel in some of the bigger fish and regain the balance in viewership that they once had.

The younger fans ARE the bigger fish.

I believe the WWE can still draw big

They already do.

but they have to be able to pull in all audiences like they once where able to do.

Why? Why target an audience which isn't likely to maximize your profits, and in return, lose an audience which can?

Bring back a bit of the adult edge (including a bit more of an adult vocabulary) and you can start netting the adult crowd who aren't interested in mat wresting and puro styles, but the ones who enjoyed the "Male Soap Opera" that the WWE was at it's peak.

Again, then, explain TNA. They have that "adult edge", and yet, their ratings have not taken a noticeable step forward.

I'm sorry, you're just wrong on this. If it was simply about adding an adult edge which would take the WWE from 3 to 6 ratings, they would have done it a long time ago. But it's not about that. The Attitude Era style booking lost HALF of it's audience over the course of 4 years. TNA has made no significant strides with it's adult programming. There is NOTHING to suggest adult themed wrestling will draw any better than what the WWE is currently doing.

 

[Prince Punk]

nothing he is the rock. if they didn't want him to say ass then they wouldn't have. I have no idea why ass is even considered something that needs to be censored. you americans are way sensitive aye.

I agree on all accounts! We Americans get over sensitive when it comes to body parts and language sad but true... Also if you listened they censored him one time and then after that just let it go (more than likely due to it being one of the best promo's since the last time he was in the E) Hell he even snuck a son of a bitch in there lol

Seriously the man captivated an audience for 20 minutes doing nothing but talking pretty sure management does not care at the moment it's his character he is The most electrifying man in sports entertainment, The Great One, The Brahma Bull, The Peoples CCHAMPION! He= Ratings... Even USA is going to just let it go! As they won't have FCC trouble and parents letting their kids watch either A. won't care. B.Sent them to bed as the show ran 20 minutes over. B. Said OMG it's the Rock and let it be what it was... Magic.

 

[Marv95]

Are you kidding? I think we've seen FAR more interesting programming over the last year or two than we had since the early 2000s.

This is the only part of your post I disagree with. Maybe with the exception of the NXT Invasion(look how that turned out), you mean to tell me current programming is more interesting than:

-HBK's return in 2002
-BookDust(hilarious, underrated tag-team who can actually work)
Rock's heel turn in 2003
-The "Smackdown Six"
-Lesnar/Angle feud
-Word Life Cena
-Kane/Shane feud
-Kane turning back into a monster after unmasking
-Eddie and Benoit finally breaking the glass ceiling, followed by Edge, Rey Rey and RVD
-Evolution vs the Raw lockerroom
-Batista/Evolution storyline
-Angle vs HBK
-ECW invasions 05/06
-Muhammad Hassan(yes, him, the most over heel wrestler in the 2000s who made the most impact in a short amount of time)

I can go on and on, but to take anything in these past 2 years over what I just posted is silly, and it's not because of PG vs 14 bullcrap. Not only there were better wrestlers, there were better storylines(many in which actually revolve around pro wrestling).

 

[Slyfox696]

This is the only part of your post I disagree with. Maybe with the exception of the NXT Invasion(look how that turned out), you mean to tell me current programming is more interesting than:

-HBK's return in 2002
-BookDust(hilarious, underrated tag-team who can actually work)
Rock's heel turn in 2003

Those would be the early 2000s, right?

-The "Smackdown Six"

Meh

-Lesnar/Angle feud

Meh

-Word Life Cena

Hustle, Loyalty, Respect Cena >>> Word Life Cena

-Kane/Shane feud

...this...this is a joke, right?

-Kane turning back into a monster after unmasking

This was terrible.

-Eddie and Benoit finally breaking the glass ceiling, followed by Edge, Rey Rey and RVD

Easily better.

-Evolution vs the Raw lockerroom

Easily.

-Batista/Evolution storyline

Without question

-Angle vs HBK

Overrated

-ECW invasions 05/06

One Night Stand 2005 was fun. Everything else? Terrible.

-Muhammad Hassan(yes, him, the most over heel wrestler in the 2000s who made the most impact in a short amount of time)

And yet, still not as over as Vickie Guerrero is right now.

I can go on and on, but to take anything in these past 2 years over what I just posted is silly, and it's not because of PG vs 14 bullcrap. Not only there were better wrestlers, there were better storylines(many in which actually revolve around pro wrestling).

I was thinking the past three years, which saw the Battle of the Billionaires, Cena putting on great matches with everyone, Undertaker vs. HBK twice (overrated also, but better than HBK vs. Angle), the Raw Guest Hosts, the Nexus storyline, Batista's heel run, Legacy, Flair's retirement, HBK's retirement, Bret Hart's comeback, Michael Cole developing into one of the best heel personalities in wrestling, The Rock's comeback...


Yes, I think 2008-until present day is better than 2004-2007. And I think in terms of overall entertainment value, as well as quality of work in the ring, 2010 trumps basically everything since the mid 90s. You don't need to have vulgarity to have a quality product.

Which from what I understand you agree with, so it's not like we're arguing against each other here. All I'm saying is that the quality of the product is quite good, and they don't need vulgarity at all.

 

[The Jizz]

While I get where people are coming from that the show doesn't NEED profanity, I surely don't think if I was jumped by 7 guys that I would call them "poopy" and that I was going to kick their "crap locker". There's a difference between gratuitous, and just adding a little extra. These are grown men who we are supposed to believe genuinely hate each other but they make sure they never say ass? Come on now. Hell, damn, ass etc show up on network TV all the time. I guess meaningless violence and gang muggings are ok, just don't curse while you are doing it.

 

[km313]

My issue with the stringent censorship is that it has a negative impact on mic skills. Even more so now than before, the wrestlers have to stick to the script. What results from this are juvenile, "humorous" lines that are supposed to gain the attention of the crowd.

This does not work. People say John Morrison's terrible on the mic. I really don't think he is. The one promo I distinctly remember him cutting in the ring consisted of him telling Maryse that she had hippopotamus breath. He didn't believe what he was saying and neither did I. And when I thought WWE was at least trying to shrink away from the painful corniness, Eve Torres called The Miz a "frog faced loser."

The childish toilet humor and cookie-cutter promos can't work for everyone. Some wrestlers succeed on the mic without it (Jericho) and some fail miserably (Cena, although he pokes fun at the PG limitations while doing it). You have to let them sound somewhat like themselves, and if that means throwing in a "damn" or an "ass" then so be it. The Miz is an ass on TV; Eve should be able to call him one. I don't need profanity in wrestling all the time, but in some situations it's necessary. The censorship is decreasing the quality of mic work, which is why The Rock's bit on Monday was so refreshing.