Well, I am coming of a small hiatus that was due to a crisis in my family, my dad got really sick and we found out he has leukemia, and two types of cancer so you can imagine the distress. Some of you may remember me and either think this guy was cool or this guy was an asshole but either way I hope I made you read and be entertained in some way when you read my work or made you think. At any rate I am back and ready to rock this thread with guns blazing
Let me first start off by addressing a couple posts and statement made earlier in the thread.
When people kick out of finishing moves its usually cause their good.
- wwenba
Well I guess that is your opinion and you are entitled to it but listen up on this one. Wrestling is a show okay. There are real dangers to performing in the ring but it is a show and nothing more. When anyone kicks out of any finisher it is not due to any degree of grit or ability, it is apart of the show.
And you can count on 1 hand the number of times someone kicked out of HHH's pedigree.
- shalliin
I am going to go ahead and take what you said as a somewhat cynical statement okay. Everyone wants to bash HHH for whatever reason and make all kinds of cases against him for this, that, or the other thing. It seems no matter what happens in WWE it is a result of something HHH did or some imaginary influence he has over everyone in the business. His finish has been kicked out of a million times, especially in the last few years. Enough with the HHHating. Give the guy his respect, he has earned it whether you want to admit it or not.
Now in terms of TNA, i read this thread 2 or 3 days before impact aired last week. and the they are trying to build matt morgan but kurt angle kicked out of both of his finishers (bicycle kick, hellavator) and hit a weak angle slam for the win on free TV.
- Show188
I have to go off on this one a bit because Matt Morgan was mentioned. Matt Morgan, that is big M little organ, is a joke and a rip off of Brock Lesnar, Batista, and Goldberg and not half as good as either of them in-ring or on the mic. You could argue about Goldberg's mic ability and I can understand that, how much has he ever really said other than "Who's Next"? But the point has been made. I still haven't seen him pull off that big move of his correctly(hellavator...or whatever it is) You can always see that he is trying to do more than his strength and the opponent will allow. Every time I see it he sees to struggle with it and it is pathetic to watch. I don't blame Matt Morgan though at all. I blame the people in back who desperately want him to be "The Next Big Animal Goldberg" I blame them for trying to push the guy so much and wanting him to do such a move that he obviously can't execute very well. Some of it may be him and his ego trying to show off his blueprint abilities but I think the latter.
and p.s in reply to the person who said about angle kicking out of the hellavator, he didn't, don west called the move wrong, it was a "swing bottom" as its called on svr 2009
- nothingtoregret
P.S. Not every move is called what it actually is, and a video game isn't generally the best reference. See, when a wrestler is figuring out their character they have to at some point decide on a finisher and what to call it. Why? Because that personalizes the move to that guy. Stone Cold's finisher the Stunner wouldn't sound like it belonged to him if you just called it a jawbreaker or a stun gun as I believe it was originally called. The Rock Bottom wouldn't sound like it belonged to the rock if you just called it a side slam. Imagine listening to J.R. yelling crazily " Stone Cold just jawbreaker'd McMahon !!!! Jawbreaker! Jawbreaker! Jawbreaker!" you see, it just sounds ridiculous. Or J.R. yelling "HHH just hit the double underhook facebuster!!! double underhook facebuster!!! double underhook facebuster!!! double underhook facebuster!!!" you see, it doesn't work. So to sum it up as I said it adds to the characters persona and it also adds to the entertainment value of the show and is easier often to say than the actual name of the move.
To CJ The Pirate, I absolutely loved your post, and I like your writing and word usage and so on. That was very well written and sounded very good reading it in my head. I especially liked the " I sure backed the wrong fucking horse " line, that was good.
i
ts the fault of the fucking stupid ass attitude era, and ME's that had both guys kicking out of each others finisher 30 damn times.
- Stone Cold Mighty NorCal
I have to agree with this in a lot of ways. The attitude era was a time for me when I didn't really care for wrestling. I was one of those people who thought Bret Hart was right about the whole thing and really didn't care for all of it. I hated Stone Cold because of the type of person he portrayed which wasn't far off from the actual guy, I didn't really like a lot of the ridiculous over the top antics they pulled a lot of times, and I thought it got really raunchy and stupid in a lot of ways. I thought the attitude era was the worst time in wrestling history. I came from the "eat your vitamins, and say your prayers" Hogan era, and the Bret Hart/Shawn Michaels Era, not this, not the attitude era, I thought then that the attitude was simply a bad one that had no place in the wrestling industry. Now, I see that it had to happen because of the Monday Night War and that I understand, but at the time I hated it. the attitude era did ruin things a bit, and the curtain being pulled back hurt them in a way I think because it tool away whatever there was that was in some way magical about the whole thing. Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Ultimate Warrior and so on were like super heroes, they were larger than life and had something about them that made them special and they seemed like more than men, they were wrestlers. The attitude era killed that kind of mysticism and supernatural aura that wrestlers had before that. The issue about the finishers is a prime example but there is also more to it than meets the eye.
See, wrestling is not just a couple guys in way too little clothes beating each other up, and acting like maniacs, that's the face of it. Wrestling at it's core and in it's purest form is a dance. It is a performance where both men have to portray certain actions and abilities in a way that makes peoples eyes pop and emotions jump. There are many ways to do this dance and no one does it the exact same as anyone else. Every match whether the same moves are used or not at some point is different from any other. The two in the rind have to make a convincing performance and use each others skills in the ring to do so and make each other look good. Often times when you see one guy do a move to the other, it is the guy taking the move that is doing the work, and making it look good.
Every match has a pace, depending on time restraints it might be slower or faster. But the whole time the wrestlers are telling a story with their bodies and bringing you the watcher up and down they speed up the action and get you excited, and then slow it down to put you on the edge of your seat, it's all a show like I said, a very good show. What does all this I have said have to do with anything you were talking about? I will explain. See as the match goes faster and slower, your emotions go up and down and your on the edge of your seat and you can't wait to see what happens next there has to be a grand finale, something that happens that makes it all a spectacle. That is where the finisher comes in. The finisher is supposed to be the end of the match when one guy finally beats the other. Now, when someone kicks out of one this is not a bad thing. It is done to add drama to the match, it is done to grab you the viewer even closer because you just saw one guy take the other guy's best shot and he keeps coming or as it seems he has to reach deep down within to muster up the strength to keep fighting, it adds to the spectacle you see. Now when guys keep going back and fourth doing finisher after finisher of course that doesn't really look good, or if one is done prematurely, but for someone to kick out from time to time or for it to take more than one finisher is just another way to make you second guess and keep you wondering what is going to happen next and keep you entertained.
Sometimes guys just don't have good finishers and that sucks. I personally never understood why some moves were supposed to be so devastating. I can't think of any off the top of my head right now but you get my drift. Some just look cool, some don't, some make you wonder how the guy is going to ever recover, and some make you wonder how they are supposed to hurt anybody but that is the business. It takes two guys to make a move look good and believable. Take a move like the Canadian Destroyer for example. It is visually very impressive and looks like it would do as it says, destroy someone, but in fact it is the person receiving the move that does all the work and they also then have to sell it. The guy receiving a Canadian Destroyer basically has to do a back flip, take a look for yourself. Everything happens for a reason in wrestling, if a guy kicks out of a finisher once, twice, even three times...That is a build up for something else. That's what the whole kick out thing is about, build up to another spot or another move. As to who is better or worse about it, definitely TNA is worse, but TNA is also a growing company who is trying to set itself apart from WWE and so they have to try and find a formula that is different from WWE and unfortunately they haven't found the right one yet. What they are going for in letting everyone kick out of everyone's finishers is to make their guys look tough as nails. It's like "Look at those TNA guys they can take finisher after finisher and keep coming, they must be really tough, not like those WWE guys who are done after a single finisher" or something like that, that is what you are supposed to think. TNA has some work to do and a big part of it is writing, it is always about the writing in any company. If your writers are putting crap out there and the bookers are good with it, then you have a problem and TNA right now is so desperate to do anything different they are having that problem. Just hang in there folks, you'll get what you want, just give it time.
I like that someone kicks out of another person's finisher. (let it begin)