What's the deal?

[Stone Cold Tea]

September 22nd 1997. The day Stone Cold stunned Vince for the 1st time.
November 10th 1997. The day Vince screwed Bret.

Now everyone credits the Vince Austin feud for saving WWE. The Mcmahon character became a vital component of te attitude era. Now people say the devil himself was born the day he screwed Bret. Before that he was an announcer. People knew he owned the company but it was never used on television.

What I want to know is, if the Mcmahon charcter wasn't born till the day he screwed Bret, then what is the day Austin stunned Mcmahon?

Is it the start of their feud?
The real start of the Mcmahon character?

I'm asking this because it looks to me, given the dates, that Austin stunned an announcer not an owner. I mean people say this is the start of their feud, but how can their be a feud with no character born.

So whats the deal?

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

Actually, it was pretty much explained good at wikipedia

Start of the Mr. McMahon character (1997)
See also: Montreal Screwjob
Throughout late 1996 and into 1997, McMahon slowly began to be referred to as the owner on WWF television while remaining as the company's lead play-by-play announcer. On the September 23, 1996 Monday Night Raw, Jim Ross delivered a worked shoot promo during which he ran down McMahon, outing him as chairman and not just a commentator for the first time in WWF storylines. This was followed up on the October 23 Raw with Steve Austin referring to then-WWF President Gorilla Monsoon as "just a puppet" and that it was actually McMahon "pulling all the strings". The March 17, 1997 WWF Raw is War is cited by some as the beginning of the Mr. McMahon character, as after Bret Hart lost to Sycho Sid in a steel cage match for the WWF Championship, Hart engaged in an expletive-laden rant against McMahon and WWF management. This rant followed Hart shoving McMahon to the ground when he attempted to conduct a post-match interview. McMahon, himself, returned to the commentary position and nearly cursed out Hart before being calmed down by Ross and Lawler.[10]

McMahon largely remained an announcer after the Bret Hart incident on Raw. On September 22, 1997, on the first-ever Raw to be broadcast from Madison Square Garden, Bret's brother Owen Hart was giving a speech to the fans in attendance. During his speech, Steve Austin entered the ring with five NYPD officers following, and assaulted Hart. When it appeared Austin would fight the officers, McMahon ran into the ring to lecture him that he couldn't "physically" compete. (At the time, Austin was recovering from a legitimate broken neck after Owen Hart botched a piledriver in his match against Austin at SummerSlam.) After telling McMahon that he respects the fact that he and the WWF cared, Austin attacked McMahon with a Stone Cold Stunner, leaving McMahon in shock. Austin was then arrested on charges of trespassing, assault, and assaulting a police officer. This marked the beginning of the Austin-McMahon rivalry.

At Survivor Series in 1997, Bret Hart defended his WWF Championship against long-time rival Shawn Michaels in the main event. In the months heading into Survivor Series, McMahon had entered into a rivalry with Hart. During the match, Michaels applied Hart's own signature submission maneuver The Sharpshooter on Hart. Hart refused to submit. McMahon, however, got up and ordered the referee to ring the bell thus screwing Hart out of the title and making Michaels the champion and making McMahon turn heel for the first time on WWF television. This incident was subsequently dubbed the "Montreal Screwjob".[16] Following the incident, McMahon left the announcing table for good (Jim Ross replaced McMahon as lead announcer) and the Mr. McMahon character began.

So basicly after Montreal screwjob Mr. Mcmahon was just officially started but you had hints way before it. And officially his feud with Austin did start when Austin stunned him. Just because he was not officially Mr Mcmahon doesnt mean that he couldnt be involved in the feud.

 

[Stone Cold Tea]

Actually, it was pretty much explained good at wikipedia



So basicly after Montreal screwjob Mr. Mcmahon was just officially started but you had hints way before it. And officially his feud with Austin did start when Austin stunned him. Just because he was not officially Mr Mcmahon doesnt mean that he couldnt be involved in the feud.

Thanks man. And I kinda see your point about the feud but if there is no character there then it's just like Brock f5ing Michael Cole

And also they say the Mcmahon character came about specifically after the screwjob, so why hint at the gimmick development?

I say that was a stunner for the sake of a stunner.

 

[HBKperfect23]

Austin had also stunned slaughter, lawler, JR. McMahon was just in the string of people being stunned. Although it was a bigger deal when he stunned McMahon because it was starting to be acknowledged he was the owner. Cornette had said McMahon was planning to move into the owner role on TV and when the screw job happened, McMahon thought he was going to be the babyface. So if you believe cornette there was no plan for the evil McMahon character at that point.

To me Austin/McMahon started right before WM 14 when Vince was asked if he wanted Austin as champion and he said "oh hell no"

 

[whoopin' ass]

Mr McMahon wasn't created until after Montreal because it was at that time that Vince decided to go ahead and be a full on heel character. He was already working as the evil owner with Austin but I don't think it was ever going to be a long term angle like it turned out. I think once the fans started booing him after Montreal, he decided to get more involved and took it over the top which gave us Mr McMahon. I mean, he played that character for years and years, long after Austin retired. Even after he bought WCW, he was still Mr McMahon. I think had Montreal not happened, he would have still been the evil owner but he wouldn't have been so involved and certainly not have gotten into the ring, he would have just had guys fight for him.

 

[supaman5279]

It was the day that the "blue-collar every day man" assaulted their boss. The guy that signed their paycheck. Based on your age bracket, there is always a person of authority higher than you that you wish you could punch in the face. A parent, a teacher, a professor, a manager, etc. This was the moment that Stone Cold stood up for the common man and gave him a Stone Cold Stunner and a double bird. It was the moment that everyone could relate to what was going on in the wrestling business. This was also before Vince really didn't do anything in the ring so him taking any kind of move was a big deal. Today all the authority figures wrestle with the exception of Stephanie. That's why when anyone does anything physical with get its kind of a big thing. Ronda Rousey, Sting, Vickie's last match. Hope this helps.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I'm asking this because it looks to me, given the dates, that Austin stunned an announcer not an owner.

Before the Montreal thing, when McMahon was on air, he was used strictly as an announcer. In fact, on that night, it was the first time I could remember him not being at the announcer's table, and I wondered why.

Well, now we know; it was to participate in the whole 'screw job' thing. No, I don't know how much Bret Hart was aware of what was going to happen, but it's plain something was in the works that night by virtue of McMahon not calling the matches, which was a departure from the norm.

Okay, maybe Vince did some announcing after Montreal, but as I remember it, leaving his position as announcer occurred at approximately the same time as his transition into the 'Mr. McMahon' role.

 

[Stone Cold Tea]

Before the Montreal thing, when McMahon was on air, he was used strictly as an announcer. In fact, on that night, it was the first time I could remember him not being at the announcer's table, and I wondered why.

Well, now we know; it was to participate in the whole 'screw job' thing. No, I don't know how much Bret Hart was aware of what was going to happen, but it's plain something was in the works that night by virtue of McMahon not calling the matches, which was a departure from the norm.

Okay, maybe Vince did some announcing after Montreal, but as I remember it, leaving his position as announcer occurred at approximately the same time as his transition into the 'Mr. McMahon' role.

So going by that, at the time Vince was stunned, it was a big deal but not the big deal it has become now? I don't wanna sound like a broken record but when he did it, it was an announcer being stunned. So essentially not the start of the Austin Vince rivalry.

 

[FlairFan2003]

yes, he was "Stunning" an announcer....albeit one who owned the company. This was similar to Scott Hall's power bomb on Eric Bischoff at Spring Stampede 96, the NWO Invasion storyline was just starting but Bischoff was not at all tied to them storyline wise, those "in the know" knew that Bischoff ran WCW but he was "just an announcer" on TV. It was a big deal because Bischoff was never involved directly in storylines before but not a huge deal because at this point on TV he wasn't "EZ E" the evil, dictatorial WCW President bleeding the company dry for his own gain, he was just a TV announcer.

"Mr McMahon" hadn't really gotten underway yet and in fact although WWE was laying the groundwork for his behind the scenes role as owner & CEO of WWE to be storyline fodder (a few months late since WCW was already having huge success doing the same thing with WCW President Bischoff) the whole "Evil Owner" gimmick wasn't in full swing and the first "Austin Stunner" on McMahon really wasn't a part of the Austin-McMahon feud, it was just part of a narrative where Austin was going nuts and stunning everyone, the only thing making it special was the fact that prior to that McMahon was never physically involved in storylines on screen before, and he was known as CEO (just like pre "EZ E" Eric Bischoff being power bombed by Hall before the full fledged NWO Invasion kicked in).

 

[Messiah]

That Austin and McMahon feud is what took Austin's character to the next level. Austin stunned the owner of WWF, people didn't realize or care Vince was the owner before that. This thread is the perfect example of looking too deep into the feud. It created intrigued, people cared about that feud more than anything else that was happening in WCW at the time. As long as people loved it, that's all that truly matters.

 

[Stone Cold Tea]

That Austin and McMahon feud is what took Austin's character to the next level. Austin stunned the owner of WWF, people didn't realize or care Vince was the owner before that. This thread is the perfect example of looking too deep into the feud. It created intrigued, people cared about that feud more than anything else that was happening in WCW at the time. As long as people loved it, that's all that truly matters.

Your missing my point completely. I'm not looking too deep into anything I was just wondering how the first stunner was as big a deal at the time as it is made now considering the timeline of character developments etc

 

[Jonyboyuk2]

Kodo answered this perfectly. The Attitude era first began when Bret hart got screwed on the steel cage match on RAW in March 1997. There were many moments after that which added to the development and evolution of the WWE attitude era- the first stunner to McMahon, the development of DX on tv, WM 13 - Bret v Stone cold in a brutal match, the screw job and the introduction of Kane to WWF television all shifted the popularity of WWF in 1997. I think the biggest change came when Stone Cold shoved Tyson.... that was explosive TV.

 

[t2ne]

Stone cold diving Tyson brought what they were doing main stream. That along with wcw at the time forced their hand to do many of the things they did.I can't wait for a legitimate number two company to push them to a better product and era

 

[FromGlasgow]

Most fans knew Vince was the owner long before they announced it on TV anyway, With the first stunner maybe they were just sowing the seeds of a Vince heel turn it does seem to tie in with the Austin vs authority angle that had just started shortly afterwards. I remember around 1993 time Vince playing a heel type character in the USWA a few years before the screwjob.

 

[ShinobiMusashi]

Austin had pointed out in more than 1 promo through 96-97 that he knew Vince was the one pulling the strings in the WWF. There were seeds planted.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

Austin was stunning all of the authority figures at the time, and it was what was really getting him over as a face. All of the authority figures at the time were also portrayed as faces, but you have to remember that in 1997 fans were cheering heels. Or just violence in general. So stunning JR, Vince, etc got him over big time. I also remember another segment where Vince forced Austin to hand the IC title over to The Rock. I'd argue the first stunner to Vince wasn't really much more than another stunner to a "non-wrestler".

Other then that, it wasn't until after the screwjob where anybody fought back against Austin. Vince was becoming a full heel and he didn't want Austin as champion, especially after he "ruined" his big announcement of Tyson. It wasn't until Austin won the title at WM that Vince then became obsessed with taking the title off of him... and this is where the money was. Up until that point they just didn't get along. Now they were in an all out war.

I agree the attitude era probably unofficially started in some time in the fall of 1996. JR and Bret Hart out Vince as owner. Pillman's got a gun segment. The first Buried Alive. The beginning of the Austin/Bret feud. Lots of attitude era storylines had developed and carried through 1997. Bret's profanity laced tirade. The submission match. The beginning of DX. The introduction of Kane. The first Hell In A Cell. And then of course, the screwjob.