Whatcha gonna do...when MMA runs wild on you?

[Dwayne_Jason]

The famous quote by Hogan "Whatcha Gonna Do, Brother?" Is pretty much the epitome of wrestling industry.

As we can all see, wrestling is down in the gutter, not because of PG, not because of Cena, but because of the massive boom in MMA. More wrestlers are shifting to MMA than another wrestling show (Except for idiots like Matt Hardy, who'd get knocked out in a second if he stepped foot in UFC.) The biggest examples are Lesnar, Lashely, Heyman (Strong possibility) and even JR (Approached to call their matches.) The PPV buyrates are paling in comparison to UFC buy rates, wrestlemania, even though it was a decent show with a great main event, and an ending of a great star was overall shitty in buy rates as it has been since MMA came into the picture. Wrestling, like it or not, is a dying breed. It's not perceived as "cool" or "hip" anymore. What my question is what happens when UFC is so much of a threat to Vince that he'll HAVE to react. What will happen to WWE if UFC continues to kick its ass despite Vince's merch sales and movies; UFC STILL manages to kick its ass.

So, my questions are, will there be a "war" of sorts between E, and UFC/ If not, why?/ If so, who'll come out on top?

If WWE goes on this path, do you see UFC as an alternative for disgruntled wrestlers like WCW was?
Will WWE ever draw as much as UFC? What do they need to do in order to do that? (Please be realistic, no "Bring Back the Rock, or Attitude!!!" There's many things possible inside PG restrictions)

PS: I'm not an MMA fan, and I like wrestling but I don't appreciate its goofiness (Not the PG stuff, just its ridiculous vignettes and Micheal Fucking Cole). So I'm neutral on this subject. If I have anything wrong here, please correct it on the forum.

 

[usn128]

There will be no war so to speak because they are two different products. That's like saying it is a war between Monday Night Football and Raw. Or college basketball and Smackdown. I am a fan of both MMA and pro wrestling. MMA is legitimate combat. Pro wrestling is a tv production. Not discounting the the athletic ability or the physical impact it takes on wrestlers, but it is scripted.

I truly believe there are two underlying issues that are dooming wrestling...
1. The PG era. We don't watch wrestling to see hornswaggle run around. We tune in to watch grown men athletically compete with some storylines thrown in.
2. The young guys factor. When wrestling was at its prime, we had MEN. Stone Cold, Shawn Michaels, The Rock, Mankind, Ken Shamrock, Triple H, Kane, Undetaker in the WWF and the nWo, Goldberg, DDP etc. in wCw. Look at who we have now, John Cena, The Miz, Randy Orton. Sure we have Edge, Kane, Undertaker, but the majority of the TV time is spent on the young guys.

I will not argue with you that MMA and wrestling share a large group of fans, but they are two different beasts.

BTW, your poll doesnt really make sense either, WrestleMania ia one time event, the general UFC includes PPV's, free Spike shows, The Ultimate Figther etc so the answer would definitely be UFC. You would have to compare WrestleMania to one UFC PPV and ask that question.

 

[Davetheheel]

Interesting post.....

But I couldn't disagree with you more.

I believe without a shadow of a doubt that The PG Era is to blame for the rise of MMA and decline of WWE.

I also believe that MMA will get stale just like anything else... you can only sell 2 guys beating the shit out of eachother for so long.

Just like when Austin was putting up his middle fingers, getting shit ass drunk, and beating the fuck out of his boss....MMA is now "the cool thing". When do you remember "the cool thing" has ever lasted all that long?

Putting the WWE out of business, would be like National Basketball League putting the National Football League out of business. Just because the ratings skyrocket when Lebron James plays Kobe or visits Cleveland, does not mean those people do not longer care about the National Football League. It was just that at that moment the NBA was "the cool thing"

I also think your comparing the 2 like there the same product and in competition with eachother. I also do not believe that is the case.

At least with WWE they can create new storylines and switch the content there putting on your television.

It sounds to me more that you are a MMA homer, and this is your wishfull thinking that isn't going to happen.

P.S. Tonight John Cena better turn heel or I am going to be pissed!

 

[Wrestling Free Thinker]

MMA still has that young male demographic that wrestling used to have. They moved on to something that is real and what is "cool" now.

You can still have a PG product but have good matches and story lines. You could have a PG product without hornswoggle too, but they don't realize that.

And what old guys do they even have now? Undertaker keeps getting injured and is near retirement. HBK is gone, HHH will probably have a few more runs but nothing amazing. I'd rather have young guys be built up and have good matches with good storylines.

and about that they are different organizations and such, you have to remember the mentality of wrestling is that it's "fake", and thus not good while they have something that is real combat.

 

[Dave]

No, there will be no war between the two respective companies.

Let us put out of our minds, the fact that both Vince McMahon and Dana White have said that they have no bad blood for the other man or company. Let us also put out of mind, the fact that both of these companies are selling completely different products and entertainment. Honestly, it is like asking whether Coca Cola and Sony are going to have a war between the two companies.

The fact of the matter is that no company, be it the WWE or the UFC want a piece of the other. It may seem like they come close to each other and there is a fair amount of overlap in the two companies but neither company would take a “war” with the other because it is not worth the risk, quite frankly. Why would the WWE or the UFC risk losing some of their fans to the other company to see who is the better business? It is absolutely nonsensical and would accomplish nothing. They are not in direct competition with each other and they would be wise to stay that way because there truly cannot be a winner.

 

[spacephantomx]

Dude I have to agree with everyone else comparing wrestling and MMA is like comparing basketball and football. It's no secret that the wrestling business is dying mainly due to the fact there hasn't been anything to shake up the wrestling business. I could care less on what your views on Matt Hardy are the fact he's right. The WWE could care less about wrestling talent and more about saving money and pushing for entertainment and are trying to push it down our throat but isn't going nowhere. The fact is we need something huge that could shake up the wrestling world that will get everyone taking again. There hasn't been something as huge to shake the wrestling world in a long time either than a few years back when Christan Cage crossed the line and joined TNA to win the NWA-TNA world title. TNA has a better wrestling product and have so much talent but aren't fully utilizing all of it but do manage to push out the potential of most of their talent. The thing is wrestling does need a change and I'm hoping Matt Hardy can bring forth the change.

 

[Hart316]

I noticed that some idiot said that MMA is just the new cool thing, that 2 guys beating the shit out of each other will get old......um have you heard of boxing? Its only been around for 100 years, and the manny pacman fight was on ppv for 60 bucks, so i dont think its to old. MMA is here to stay, I dont know if boxing will ever go away, but mma is the new popular boxing. Ive watched wrestling since 1995 and ufc since 2000, wwe is the worst its ever been, miz, santino and the entire nexus is just awful. Watching raw was like religion to me, i had to see it every single monday since 95, and now i maybe can stand 30 minutes on a good monday, this is america, we get enough kiddy stuff during the day and evenings, we want a show with balls to watch at night, think about it, the PG era is what is wrong with wwe, but saying that, wwe and vince arent going anywhere

 

[Funkydr79]

I love how every thread there are people trying to tie back everything to the so-called "PG Era" being the root cause of WWEs problems. Having grown up during the Rock n' Wrestling and NWA period, wrestling never needed to be above PG-13 to be compelling. Other people have made the same comment, but it's the storylines that are the problem. Or rather, it's the focus on what happens outside the ring rather than what happens inside. There is too much soap opera and not enough rasslin'. If you put the attention on the competition the storylines will follow.

To the major focus of this thread.....WWE vs. UFC are two different entities. I don't think the WWE is losing fans to UFC. I do think that the WWE will lose quality athletes to MMA. A lot of older WWE talent have said that had MMA been around they may not have ended up in pro wrestling. That's probably true of younger talent who now compete in MMA. What WWE will be left with is the "scrubs" of MMA who couldn't cut it in legitimate fighting.

 

[Lionshare]

Altough its somewhat different, you have to realize MMA its the cool thing right now, if a few year before it was austin and rock, now its brock and mir, this are the guys the kids want to be, the youths admire, and the adults want to see. Plus they ppv buys are amazing right now, to me its wrong to not acknowledge its popularity and try to get some for the wrestling industry.
This is the future guys, like it or not, unless vince pulls out another rock an austin out of his hat, the future is grim for us, the wrestling fans.

 

[TUFFY54]

How many of these posts are we going to see!

Yes, MMA is incredibly popular right now.
No, they aren't going to put the WWE out of business. No, the WWE is not going to do any cross promoting with them. No, all good wrestlers aren't going to go to MMA. Dana White has said as much himself. He cleary doesn't want a bunch of older guys from another sport trying to get into the octogon at 40.

Lets be honest, wrestling was never as popular as we all say it was back in the Attitude Era. Right now I might know 2 people I can talk about wrestling with in the real world. Back in high school in the late 90's there might have been 5 or 10. Keep in mind thats out of a highschool that had 900 kids in it. Yeah, nobody has wrestling ppv parties anymore like they did back then, but 95% of everyone that went to those parties during the Attitude Era didn't give a shit about wrestling then. They went to see friends and get free beer and food. As wrestling fans sometimes we don't realize what a insignificant part of this industry we are. You can see how many people are on this site an any given time. It's usually a couple thousand. Compare that to the hundereds of thousands that order ppv's every month or the millions that watch RAW. "Real" fans like us really don't matter. Since I lived it, I'll say this, if I went to a Wrestlemania party with 40 people in highschool. I'd say 25 could tell me the main event, 10 could tell at least half the undercard, and there might be 3 that would go outside and talk about dream matches.

I know I've rambled but the truth is that MMA and WWE DO NOT share the same audiance! I seen it with my own eyes. I went to watch a UFC special at a guys house with 50 people there. After it was over TNA came on and everyone there started laughing and saying how fucking gay it was. (Of course I just grinned because I already had it recording at home )

 

[Arkham Noir]

The famous quote by Hogan "Whatcha Gonna Do, Brother?" Is pretty much the epitome of wrestling industry.

As we can all see, wrestling is down in the gutter, not because of PG, not because of Cena, but because of the massive boom in MMA. More wrestlers are shifting to MMA than another wrestling show (Except for idiots like Matt Hardy, who'd get knocked out in a second if he stepped foot in UFC.) The biggest examples are Lesnar, Lashely, Heyman (Strong possibility) and even JR (Approached to call their matches.) The PPV buyrates are paling in comparison to UFC buy rates, wrestlemania, even though it was a decent show with a great main event, and an ending of a great star was overall shitty in buy rates as it has been since MMA came into the picture. Wrestling, like it or not, is a dying breed. It's not perceived as "cool" or "hip" anymore. What my question is what happens when UFC is so much of a threat to Vince that he'll HAVE to react. What will happen to WWE if UFC continues to kick its ass despite Vince's merch sales and movies; UFC STILL manages to kick its ass.

So, my questions are, will there be a "war" of sorts between E, and UFC/ If not, why?/ If so, who'll come out on top?

If WWE goes on this path, do you see UFC as an alternative for disgruntled wrestlers like WCW was?
Will WWE ever draw as much as UFC? What do they need to do in order to do that? (Please be realistic, no "Bring Back the Rock, or Attitude!!!" There's many things possible inside PG restrictions)

PS: I'm not an MMA fan, and I like wrestling but I don't appreciate its goofiness (Not the PG stuff, just its ridiculous vignettes and Micheal Fucking Cole). So I'm neutral on this subject. If I have anything wrong here, please correct it on the forum.

Want to know a secret? WWE was once huge in popularity. Brought in just as much revenue as MMA is right now (probably more). Want to know why that is? Because there is something called fads. I took the liberty to find the definition of the term. According to dictionary.com, a fad is;

a temporary fashion, notion, manner of conduct, etc., esp. one followed enthusiastically by a group

Professional wrestling was this in the late 90's early 2000's. MMA is currently one. Let's see if UFC is still pulling these kinds of numbers in 15 or 20 years. If Vince McMahon and WWE have proven anything over the years, it's that they know how to survive. So what if MMA out draws them for a few years, let's see how they survive when the fickle masses move on to the next big thing.

 

[HBKevin]

Two completely different products. Pro wrestling does not resemble mixed martial arts except very superficially. I've watched very little UFC, except for the recent Lesnar vs. Velasquez. Real fighting involving punches, kicks and submissions and is frankly much less interesting visually, much like boxing. Most of the time consists of the opponents circling each other and throwing punches, or attempting takedowns. The appeal is that it's real, in that they really are trying to beat each other up, with very limited restrictions, like no strikes to the back of the head.

Wrestling is more visually interesting, with all the throws, suplexes, counters, high-risk maneuvers, finishers, etc., precisely because it's not real fighting. They actively cooperate with each other in the ring to perform intricate maneuvers, and the one receiving the offense is the one who does most of the work, i.e. the person taking a throw, like a chokeslam, has to jump, at exactly the right time and speed, to make the move look effective and powerful. Being injured in boxing/UFC is basically the expected outcome, with bruises, bleeding, broken bones, concussions, etc. Being injured in wrestling is actively prevented, with both workers trying to ensure each others' safety, to the greatest extent possible, although certainly taking repeated bumps on the mat hurts. They pull their punches and try to make it look as painful as possible, while inflicting as little pain as possible. At least that's the ideal. That's why some wrestlers are criticized for working stiff, and why certain guys take pride in being safe to work with, never having injured someone, etc.

That's sort of a long explanation, but basically, it's comparing apples and oranges, pro wrestling is simulated combat/gymnastics/drama, MMA is regulated fighting.

 

[kingofkings1984]

ther is no war going on, or going to go on, between the two companys. i dont watch UFC and then think "oh i wont watch smackdown this week now because ive already had my fighting fix" etc, it would be like tuning in on a saturday to watch football and then turning the cricket off because ive already watched sport today.

would be good if they actually started to acknowledge each other though, maybe even promote each others shows perhaps. have ufc guest host' and interview more wwe stars in attendance at a UFC event, quite cool! sorry to mention it but yes in the attitude era pro wrestling was very believable, in terms of the passion in the promos and the feuds actually lasted a while and made sense, still had the silly vignettes tho, Mae Young's pregnancy anyone?, and i would be sitting in anticipation as to who was gonna come out first after the RAw intro music or when the glass would shatter for an unexpected austin entrance. dont get that feeling anymore, but again it aint because of the UFC, its the WWE product as it currently stands.

imo the reason wwe ppv buyrates are down is because there are too many of them! the 4 mains ppv's was more than enough back in the day, but obviously vince & co have done there math and worked out even if feb, apr & may's ppv did badly, they're still profitable so lets stick with it. imo the storylines etc have weakend over the years because the talent level isnt as good as it was. not because ive turned off and started watching UFC instead.

The UFC will also do low ppv buyrates unless there is a Lesnar or a GSP involved.

yes UFC is more popular now it seems and it is the "cool" thing to be watching and talking about but WWE will always be around, it will always make money regardless of UFC doing 2million buys never mind 1million.

still a good debate though so thank you

 

[jaceynightheat]

UFC & WWE aren't competing. UFC is a legit sport, WWE is a soap opera. It was time to get out of the Attitude era, curse words & crotch chops can go only so far.

I'm pretty happy that DX won't be around like they were. Nothing against HBK or HHH, it's just annoying seeing 2 40 something year olds try to be 20 something & act like rebels when HBK is Mr. WWE & HHH is married into the family. They are much of the system as anyone else.

How did Hot Lesbian Action help wrestling? The only real character that came out of the Attitude era that couldn't translate to PG is Stone Cold's character.

The more kids that watch WWE, the more money WWE gets.

 

[Cruiser]

ther is no war going on, or going to go on, between the two companys. i dont watch UFC and then think "oh i wont watch smackdown this week now because ive already had my fighting fix" etc, it would be like tuning in on a saturday to watch football and then turning the cricket off because ive already watched sport today.

would be good if they actually started to acknowledge each other though, maybe even promote each others shows perhaps. have ufc guest host' and interview more wwe stars in attendance at a UFC event, quite cool! sorry to mention it but yes in the attitude era pro wrestling was very believable, in terms of the passion in the promos and the feuds actually lasted a while and made sense, still had the silly vignettes tho, Mae Young's pregnancy anyone?, and i would be sitting in anticipation as to who was gonna come out first after the RAw intro music or when the glass would shatter for an unexpected austin entrance. dont get that feeling anymore, but again it aint because of the UFC, its the WWE product as it currently stands.

imo the reason wwe ppv buyrates are down is because there are too many of them! the 4 mains ppv's was more than enough back in the day, but obviously vince & co have done there math and worked out even if feb, apr & may's ppv did badly, they're still profitable so lets stick with it. imo the storylines etc have weakend over the years because the talent level isnt as good as it was. not because ive turned off and started watching UFC instead.

The UFC will also do low ppv buyrates unless there is a Lesnar or a GSP involved.

yes UFC is more popular now it seems and it is the "cool" thing to be watching and talking about but WWE will always be around, it will always make money regardless of UFC doing 2million buys never mind 1million.

still a good debate though so thank you

I'm going to agree and disagree with your points on this one. When you say people are not going to stop watching Smackdown or Raw because of UFC you are correct. The tv ratings of WWE will not be affected by UFC. Whenever UFC does free television shows they are either on Wednesdays or Saturdays, both days when WWE does not have any programming on. Perhaps some people are drawn away from pro-wrestling into MMA but I don't see too many people giving up wrestling altogether when there isn't a UFC show on to compete with the WWE.

Where I do think the WWE and UFC are competing is on Pay Per View. Let's face it, the average consumer is not going to spend money on two ppv's a month. That would be close to $90 to order both a WWE and UFC show. It's more likely that people who are interested in wrestling and MMA are going to choose one or the other. I do believe there are a large chunk of WWE fans who love UFC and vice versa. What it all comes down to is which event will give you more bang for your buck. For me personally if the UFC has some top guys fighting and the WWE just has another Cena or Orton/insert name here main event, I'm going to go with the UFC. If there are a bunch of nobodies fighting on UFC and the WWE has compelling storylines, I'm going to go with the E. Because of the price and budgets of the typical consumer I really believe that the two are competing on pay per view. As of right now, I'd say that the UFC is winning that battle.

Like you said, even if the UFC is drawing ppv numbers away from the WWE, the WWE is not going anywhere. There will always be devoted fans who buy ppv's regardless and the company is just a total cash cow. They'll keep making a tremendous profit but the question is whether they want to acknowledge the UFC as a main competitor and adjust accordingly.

 

[Rayne]

If WWE goes on this path, do you see UFC as an alternative for disgruntled wrestlers like WCW was?

You do not walk into a mixed martial arts arena and become instantly successful. It requires years of training in several disciplines before you can hope to keep up with the fighters of today.

Before someone says it, "But what about Brock Lesnar?", Brock is a freak of nature and the exception to the rule. As good as he is, he was badly exposed against Shane Carwin and Cain Velasquez. He hits hard, but has very poor striking technique. What about other fighters? Bobby Lashley lost to Chad Griggs in painful-to-watch fashion, proving that it takes more then a good physique and a wrestling background to be successful in MMA. (Wrestling, however, is fast becoming one of the more important MMA disciplines.) Dave Bautista? If you see him in a cage, he's going to be matched up against handpicked, easily beatable opponents whom you haven't heard before, or Ken Shamrock (who qualifies under the first 2 of those.)

I'm not trying to say that a WWE wrestler can't make it in the UFC. Brock proved that wrong. I am saying that the UFC is a very competitive environment which hires only the best fighters, and also Kimbo Slice. It's a bit more complex than saying "I don't like the offer WWE gave me, so I'm going to fight in the UFC. Dana, I can make a shock appearance at the next PPV."

As far as the idea that UFC and WWE are competing, they absolutely are. There's an overlap in fans that watch WWE and UFC, and people only have so much to spend on PPV's. The market that UFC is operating in has traditionally been the WWE's market.