What to do with the faceless one?

[Remix]

Yes indeed. This Mexican Superdraw has been getting a lot of attention since he signed, and not all of it for the right reasons. Specifically his ring work has been garnering a fairly large amount of criticism, as he seems to be botching an awful lot.

I'm not going to call him shit, or sloppy. Because he's obviously very good at what he does. However it's just as obvious that for the time being he needs the right opponent until he finds his way in WWE and adapts to the style. Which leads me to the question asked in the thread title. What should WWE do with Sin Cara.

To me the answer comes in two parts: leave him where he is, or ship him off to Smackdown. And to me the answer is simple. Shipping him to Smackdown means that any mistakes he makes can be more easily covered up, and that's where most of the guys who can help him adjust are. A simple solution to a relatively simple problem.

The second part is just who is the right opponent for Sin Cara? Looking at the WWE roster I really see only three good options, which I'll talk about below.

Rey Mysterio

The pros of this opponent are pretty obvious. Rey's the single most successful luchador in the WWE. If anyone can help Sin Cara find his feet, it's him. He knows the perils, pitfalls and problems that a small wrestler with Sin Cara's style has better than anyone else, so who better to help him?

Well there's just a couple of problems with that. The first is that he's not really going to be fast enough to keep up with Sin Cara with his bad knee, which is one of the things Sin Cara could really do with as slowing it down seems to be a problem for him. Additionally Sin Cara needs soneone who can work with him in the ring long term, cover for his mistakes and help him find solutions. However, because Rey's a face that's not likely to happen because face vs face feuds aren't commonly done in WWE. Placing them in a tag team would work, but it still leaves Sin Cara still needing an opponent who can cover his mistakes and who the fuck is there in the tag division anyway?

Justin Gabriel

I'd like to come out and say that giving Justin Gabriel time in the ring where him and his opponent can look good is never a bad thing. He's one solid motherfucker in the ring and is damn good at making his opponents look good. He's also just about fast enough to keep up with Sin Cara, and already a heel. Additionally, it would be a good time for him to showcase a few of his moves that haven't made it to WWE yet, like his Hurricane DDT.

The only problem I can see with this potential matchup is that I saw what happened the last time Justin Gabriel wrestled a luchador. And I didn't like what I saw. Now granted Justin's improved since then and Sin Cara's miles better than Angelico is but it does make me question how well Gabriel's style would mesh with Sin Cara's. The match in question is below. Make your own judgments of it.

[YOUTUBE]VPbRcST6ICU[/YOUTUBE]

Alberto Del Rio

if what Mysterio bought to the table is experience in the Mexican and WWE style, and what Gabriel bought is the capacity to keep up with him and have a feud, Alberto represents the best of both worlds. He's also more credable than Gabriel, which is a plus if they're trying to build up Cara. And the fact that they both speak spanish means that they can easily communicate when planning their matches.

It would mean that ADR is forced to take a few steps back from the ME though, which would be detrimental to his career in the short term but WWE know what they've got in Sin Cara, and won't really mind that because, lets face it Sin Cara's going to be a massive merchandice seller once he's established and he's already over like a rover.

Honourable mentions

Chavo Gurrerro and Hunico

Once again, they've got the experience but nowhere near credible enough to be someone that can be worked against long term by Sin Cara, which I honestly think is what's needed.

My Conclusion

Ultimately, Gabriel or Del Rio are the best choices for the role of getting Cara used to WWE, with Del Rio being preferable. However, since there's no way in hell that he's going to jump straight into a feud with the world heavyweight champion, if he wins the title at ER, then Gabiel is a good second choice.

 

[Jason Scene]

When he debuted and attacked Sheamus, was I the only person that became excited at the prospect of a Sheamus Vs Sin Cara feud over the United States Championship? I genuinely think that those two could have a good feud given a couple months, Sheamus would benefit from defeating Sin Cara at some point as he's one of WWE's top heels, while Sin Cara would benefit from beating a two time former WWE Champion.

Then when you put them in the ring, you'd have Sheamus with the power moves and Sin Cara with the aerial attack. It seemed like it would have been a good feud to me, and the fact is, if Sheamus had retained the US Championship throughout it would have launched him back into the big picture within the WWE. While iif Cara won, he'd have got a good push without it going overboard and he'd have captured a Championship.

 

[Remix]

When he debuted and attacked Sheamus, was I the only person that became excited at the prospect of a Sheamus Vs Sin Cara feud over the United States Championship? I genuinely think that those two could have a good feud given a couple months, Sheamus would benefit from defeating Sin Cara at some point as he's one of WWE's top heels, while Sin Cara would benefit from beating a two time former WWE Champion.

You're right, however it doesn't help with Sin Cara's core problem of not knowing how to work the WWE style. It would be great for him once he's got the style down pat but Sheamus can't help him with his timing. Sheamus can't help him choose his spots. Sheamus gives him kayfabe support which is not what he needs.

Then when you put them in the ring, you'd have Sheamus with the power moves and Sin Cara with the aerial attack.

Great, and how often has Sin Cara worked that kind of match? Hell is there a guy the size of Sheamus in CMLL?

It seemed like it would have been a good feud to me, and the fact is, if Sheamus had retained the US Championship throughout it would have launched him back into the big picture within the WWE. While if Cara won, he'd have got a good push without it going overboard and he'd have captured a Championship.

On the other hand belts aren't what he needs. He's over as fuck already, and built up as an uber successful megastar in Mexico, so he's got the credability. And hell, he just worked with John fucking Cena and the WWE champion the Miz. Sheamus just cannot give Sin Cara the help he needs in this situation.

 

[The Viper Orton]

When he debuted and attacked Sheamus, was I the only person that became excited at the prospect of a Sheamus Vs Sin Cara feud over the United States Championship? I genuinely think that those two could have a good feud given a couple months, Sheamus would benefit from defeating Sin Cara at some point as he's one of WWE's top heels, while Sin Cara would benefit from beating a two time former WWE Champion.

Then when you put them in the ring, you'd have Sheamus with the power moves and Sin Cara with the aerial attack. It seemed like it would have been a good feud to me, and the fact is, if Sheamus had retained the US Championship throughout it would have launched him back into the big picture within the WWE. While iif Cara won, he'd have got a good push without it going overboard and he'd have captured a Championship.

I think that didnt happen for 1 of two reasons.

1) WWE are trying to put Sin Cara in the ring with nearly anybody to get recognition

or
2) He just botches way to many moves for him to go for a champion.

 

[tehaskl56]

Smackdown isn't the only roster with high flying talent. Why not have matches on Raw versus Evan Bourne?

People see the draft to smackdown as ideal for every superstar on RAW who isn't main eventing week in/week out, but being on the B show benefits nobody.

 

[TopOfTheTron]

I think one of the main problems with his ring work is the mask. I have worn masks that completely cover the eyes and you CAN see through them (sort of), but I imagine it's still like wrestling with a blindfold. So my answer to your question about him going to SD! is no. Or at least not yet. I think if they are going to change anything with Sin Cara at the moment, it should be his mask design, not the brand he's on.

As for who the right opponent for Sin Cara is? I'm just not sure.

 

[iheartfcw]

Ok firstly I am shocked you left out some people from your list..

Where is John Morrison?
Morrison is a great in-ring competitor and has a very unique movset. His moves 'wow' the crowd. I think with both their high flying qualities they could put on a specticle.

Where is Daniel Bryan?
Daniel Bryan is without a doubt the best in-ring competitor in the WWE. He is technicaly gifted and can perform mat to mat moves as well as some highflying. Sin Cara is also very talented and they both could put on a great match.

Where is Evan Bourne?

Evan Bourne once again is a extremely talented highflying competitor who could put on an exciting and fast paced match up against Sin Cara.

Last but not least where is CM Punk?

After watching his match against Primo 2 weeks back we can see some of the moves he is capible of. Why not let him mix it up with Punk? Punk is a great worker and he can even make the worst look good. CM Punk vs Sin Cara would be a great match. The high flying from Sin Cara vs the wrestling ability from CM Punk.

Secondly I don;t understand why people are hating on Sin Cara. He has botched his enterance 3 times and fell off the top rope against Primo... So what? He has made some mistakes but all wrestlers in the WWE have made mistakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0PfOnSgOYw

I dont see people blowing their mistakes way out of proportion?

If Sin Cara continues to make mistakes week in week out then it's a worry. But for crying out loud he just bloody debuted! He is bound to mistakes! He has made a switch from a huge technical and high flying wrestling style to a generic acting style WWE offers.

Give him time! If he makes mistakes draft him to Smackdown because Smackdown is taped!

 

[berlinbrawler]

That's quite a list of possible opponents put together here. Unfortunately I do think it is wishful thinking for the time being.
Of all the guys named I would say Chavo Guerrero is the most likely match we are going to see soon.

After Sin Cara's showing on RAW I would expect that the WWE will be quite low on him in the weeks and possibly months to come.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

gabriel isn't over at all. Putting him with mysterio is face vs face and neither would have anything to "play off".

I would have him in a multi man feud. Have a group of guys attack him, then give him some buddies. this hides his weakness (contrived ass spots that don't get over with American audiences).

Daniel Bryan vs Cara would be an amazing Malenko/Mysterio type of match, however it's face vs face, bryan isn't THAT over, so I don't think that's a good idea just yet.

After his multi-man feud. I'd put him with a large heel. Or someone who is experienced with the American style of crowd psychology. Basically teach cara to make his spots look more spontaneous and tell more of a story through selling and hope spots than the dance-like lucha style.

I'm not saying Cara needs to change the moves he does, just the way he puts them in matches.

think of Eddie Guerrero vs Mysterio Halloween havoc 97. It had probably 5 moves most Americans had never seen before. they cared about the match though, because of the story (the storyline AND the in ring story I mean) and the way the match was layed out. Guerrero countered everything Rey had, so rey had to pull batmanshit crazy stuff out of his ass to gain an advantage, the 619 into a headscissors, followed up by a dragonrana plancha, followed up by a corkscrew body attack. In most cases, that's just random spots, however, since Eddie was such an awesome heel and beatdown Rey so badly, and had countered every highspot Rey had, he NEEDED to do crazy shit. It made sense and the American audience, the audience that didn't buy into most of the WWF flyers because they couldn't tell stories, bought Eddie/Rey and popped for the finish.

That's what cara needs to be like. Right now he looks more like the random flyers WWF had in 1997/1998 instead of the guys WCW had that told stories. It's gonna take a little time. Mysterio was really spotty at first, and the reaction he got is what Cara is getting now. However, if Cara doesn't adapt he'll end up more like Super Calo and less like Mysterio. Hide Cara's weaknesses and highlight his strengths, when he's learned a bit, put him in a singles feud with someone that can further take his amazing ability and mold it into a story. Once he learns to tell a story "in english" so to speak, put him with anyone.

 

[93178]

I really think they should move Cara to SmackDown during the draft. From there put him and Mysterio as a tag team. This way Mysterio wont have to work full matches (lets face it, hes getting older) and Cara wont have to work full matches so he can just get tagged in to do the high flying crazy shit. Also since Mysterio would be at/in all of his matches he can help him along the match speaking Spanish since when the other wrestlers talk about spots during the matches its in English which I'm not sure if Cara even understands any English right now. Have them both hold the titles for a good amount of time (maybe try and bring back a real tag division) Then as Cara gets more used to the American crowds and WWE style you can split up the team and have him go off into a singles career. Also you could have Cara cut promos in Spanish and then Mysterio translate them into English until Cara learns enough to cut his own English promos.

WWE seems to really like making Mysterio look like the giant underdog a lot by putting him agasint giant dudes. How good would it be for that sense/type of match then Mysterio & Cara vs Kane & Big Show for the Tag Team titles.

 

[akathelaw]

Rey Mysterio & Sin Cara vs. Kane & Big Show for the Tag Titles? Great Scott! I love the sound of that. Sin Cara needs to be on the taped show, he's still learning the WWE style. He will surely mature into a great performer and I think tagging him up with Rey is a great use of both stars. Sin Cara needs to get some validation from Rey before he hangs up his boots for good.

 

[Remix]

Ok firstly I am shocked you left out some people from your list..

Meh.

Where is John Morrison?
Morrison is a great in-ring competitor and has a very unique movset. His moves 'wow' the crowd. I think with both their high flying qualities they could put on a specticle.

One problem, Morrison's a face on the rise. Putting him into a feud with Sin Cara who's already getting over faster than him will either diminish his crowd reaction or force him to turn heel, and Morrison's a sucky heel. Morrison and Sin Cara need to be kept separate while they're both being pushed.

Where is Daniel Bryan?
Daniel Bryan is without a doubt the best in-ring competitor in the WWE.

I'd disagree with that. Honestly I think Gabriel's the more diverse performer.

He is technicaly gifted and can perform mat to mat moves as well as some highflying. Sin Cara is also very talented and they both could put on a great match.

Yes they could, but they've still got the same problem as Morrison. DBD is a face and he's simply not going to get cheers against Sin Cara. Also, isn't he in a feud with Sheamus? interupting that for a programme with Sin Cara would get in the way of that.

Where is Evan Bourne?

Evan Bourne once again is a extremely talented highflying competitor who could put on an exciting and fast paced match up against Sin Cara.

Finally, a viable option. He's irrelevent so turning him's not going to interfere with anyone, however he's far from perfect. He's a jobber, so how believable is it that he's suddenly able to hang in with Sin Cara, who can hang with the WWE champion and John Cena?

The least credible guy on my list is Justin Gabriel, and at the very least he's been shown to be able to hang with Edge and Cena, even if he can't beat them cleanly.

Last but not least where is CM Punk?

After watching his match against Primo 2 weeks back we can see some of the moves he is capible of. Why not let him mix it up with Punk? Punk is a great worker and he can even make the worst look good. CM Punk vs Sin Cara would be a great match. The high flying from Sin Cara vs the wrestling ability from CM Punk.

He's busy with Orton, but besides that you have a good point. He's a heel who's learned the WWE style and knows how to work with people who wrestle with the lucha libre style. I probably should have mentioned him, but I forgot.

Secondly I don;t understand why people are hating on Sin Cara. He has botched his enterance 3 times and fell off the top rope against Primo... So what? He has made some mistakes but all wrestlers in the WWE have made mistakes.

And the missed moonsault, and the general timing issues he seems to have. They're not massive issues, but they do need to be addressed if he wants to reach his potential.

If Sin Cara continues to make mistakes week in week out then it's a worry. But for crying out loud he just bloody debuted! He is bound to mistakes! He has made a switch from a huge technical and high flying wrestling style to a generic acting style WWE offers.

Hence this thread, which is how to help him adjust to this very different style, such as gutting him a programme with someone who can help him adapt to the new style.

Give him time! If he makes mistakes draft him to Smackdown because Smackdown is taped!

Didn't I say that in my OP?

gabriel isn't over at all. Putting him with mysterio is face vs face and neither would have anything to "play off".

Being as Gabriel's a heel, and is one of the very few high fliers who can slow the match pace right down when he has to, sticking him in a feud with the very over Sin Cara would help him get over.

I would have him in a multi man feud. Have a group of guys attack him, then give him some buddies. this hides his weakness (contrived ass spots that don't get over with American audiences).

...contrived ass spots don't get over? The fact that he's outpopping most of the roster and John Morrison main eventing Elimination Chamber woudl disagree with you there.

Daniel Bryan vs Cara would be an amazing Malenko/Mysterio type of match, however it's face vs face, bryan isn't THAT over, so I don't think that's a good idea just yet.

Agreed.

After his multi-man feud. I'd put him with a large heel. Or someone who is experienced with the American style of crowd psychology. Basically teach cara to make his spots look more spontaneous and tell more of a story through selling and hope spots than the dance-like lucha style.

The problem with a big guy is that Sin Cara has shit all experience of working with one, compounding the problem with Sin Cara not knowing how to work the style yet.

I'm not saying Cara needs to change the moves he does, just the way he puts them in matches.

Agreed.

think of Eddie Guerrero vs Mysterio Halloween havoc 97. It had probably 5 moves most Americans had never seen before. they cared about the match though, because of the story (the storyline AND the in ring story I mean) and the way the match was layed out. Guerrero countered everything Rey had, so rey had to pull batmanshit crazy stuff out of his ass to gain an advantage, the 619 into a headscissors, followed up by a dragonrana plancha, followed up by a corkscrew body attack. In most cases, that's just random spots, however, since Eddie was such an awesome heel and beatdown Rey so badly, and had countered every highspot Rey had, he NEEDED to do crazy shit. It made sense and the American audience, the audience that didn't buy into most of the WWF flyers because they couldn't tell stories, bought Eddie/Rey and popped for the finish.

That's what cara needs to be like. Right now he looks more like the random flyers WWF had in 1997/1998 instead of the guys WCW had that told stories. It's gonna take a little time. Mysterio was really spotty at first, and the reaction he got is what Cara is getting now. However, if Cara doesn't adapt he'll end up more like Super Calo and less like Mysterio. Hide Cara's weaknesses and highlight his strengths, when he's learned a bit, put him in a singles feud with someone that can further take his amazing ability and mold it into a story. Once he learns to tell a story "in english" so to speak, put him with anyone.

And that, ladies and gentlemen is the point of this thread, to figure out how to take Sin Cara as he is and help him move from Mexican jumping bean, to Mexican jumping bean who tells a story with his matches.

In a way, Sin Cara is the opposite of Wade Barrett. His moves are fancy and they don't make sence, wheras Barrett's are incredably simple but make a lot of sence.

Rey Mysterio & Sin Cara vs. Kane & Big Show for the Tag Titles? Great Scott! I love the sound of that.

Yes. Putting a guy who has no clue how to work with 7 footers into a match with two of them while trying to adapt to the style and improve is a GREAT idea. It's not like Big Show is someone who has to be worked around at the best of times and the vast majority of Sin Cara's moves can't be used on or anything.

Sin Cara needs to be on the taped show, he's still learning the WWE style. He will surely mature into a great performer and I think tagging him up with Rey is a great use of both stars.

But who is there for them to face? Slaybriel are going, going, gone. Club 7 ft are a bad matchup and there are no other tag teams. Well there's Santino and Koz, but they're faces who are too funny to turn.

Sin Cara needs to get some validation from Rey before he hangs up his boots for good.

And he can get that later, when he's matured as a performer and is ready to take over Rey's spot.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

...contrived ass spots don't get over? The fact that he's outpopping most of the roster and John Morrison main eventing Elimination Chamber woudl disagree with you there.

Over reaction much? He doesn't outpop most of the roster, he's getting solid midcard pops. Morrison and Hardy and Mysterio and every other spotter got over on charisma, not spots. If you got over on spots, Teddy Hart would be in the WWE as the biggest star in the world.

Cool moves are great and all, but they can get old. An emotional connection, takes longer to "get old". It's why Blitzkreig in WCW was over for a while, then faded out, but Rey Mysterio is still over. Rey is by no means a "ground breaking" flyer anymore. He's still over though. Why? Emotional connection. Spots might get a few "ooooos" and "aaahhhs" initially but eventually you have to put some substance with it.

And that, ladies and gentlemen is the point of this thread, to figure out how to take Sin Cara as he is and help him move from Mexican jumping bean, to Mexican jumping bean who tells a story with his matches.

So you disagree with me saying that he won't stay over based on highspots then you say we need to change him from being highspot based to telling stories by using highspots as a means of telling that story?

Were you just disagreeing at first to disagree because that's exactly my point. As a spotter he won't stay over. Midcard pops are fine, but like I said, they'll fade if he doesn't add substance. If Morrison and Hardy didn't have insane ring charisma they woulnd't be anywhere.

The problem with a big guy is that Sin Cara has shit all experience of working with one, compounding the problem with Sin Cara not knowing how to work the style yet.

That's why I said after a multiman feud. the WWE is full of big guys, he'll have to learn sometime.

Being as Gabriel's a heel, and is one of the very few high fliers who can slow the match pace right down when he has to, sticking him in a feud with the very over Sin Cara would help him get over.

I don't care about the moves or how much I'd enjoy the match. The crowd only gives a shit about Gabriel because he's in Corre. A feud with Corre where he wrestles Gabriel a few times might be fun. However, nobody gives a shit about gabriel by himself. the fans have to care about the match. You could put KENTA/Danielson in front of an audience, but if they don't really care about the wrestlers other than "oooo fun moves and it's a good match" then it's not going to get anyone over. Especailly in front of the American mainstream audience.