What to do with Paul Burchill

[Frank the Frowner]

1. I'm wrong? This is an opinion based forum. There is no such thing as a wrong opinion. A statement can be wrong, an opinion cannot because it's someone's feelings based on what they've experienced. And in my experience based on what i've seen, in comparison to the C4, the curb stomp is shit.

Opinions can be wrong. If someone had developed an opinion on a race or a religion based purely on stereotypes, wouldn't that be a wrong opinion? The WWE is trying to push Burchill as a ruthless heel who has no regard for the damage he inflicts on an opponent. They're also desperately trying to get him to break free from that pirate gimmick. The C4 was an awesome finisher, but it would bring back memories of the pirate gimmick, and it doesn't really suit his new character. Remember his first match against Kendrick? The Curb Stomp was the setup to the inverted swinging neckbreaker. A lot of people felt that was overkill, because the curb stomp looked brutal enough. And as long as he does the curb stomp the way it was done at the beginning, where he lifts both arms and then stomps the head, it will get over.

2. If i want to see someone get their head kicked in, i'll go into the rough areas of my neighberhood and wait for a fight to break out. WWE is supposed to exhibit athleticism at it's highest level and the curb stomp is not an example of that, whereas the C4 definitely was. I've yet to see Burchill 'get into a jam' and then wrestle his way out of it into the move, i've seen him squash people and then do that at the end. BORING!

He's not going to be squashing jobbers forever. Right now, they're building him up as a heel who, like stated before, has no regard whatsoever for the damage his opponent takes. And if the WWE is supposed to exhibit athleticism at the higest level, then please explain why The Great Khali, Big Daddy V, and Mark Henry are such prominent members of the WWE roster.

It can't come out of nowhere at all, as soon as his opponent is face down on the floor we'll all know what's gonna come next. A snapmare can come out of nowhere, does that mean that HHH shud trade the Pedigree for a snapmare? And as watchingandwaiting said, how is anyone gonna counter it? I can't see anyone rolling Burchill up into a pin from that position, so that means if he wants to put on a decent match with lots of twists and turns (and he's booked to lose), then he'll either not go for it at all, or everyone will have to kick out of it rather than counter, thereby undermining the effectiveness of it. I also don't care how realistic it looks because NEWSFLASH - WRESTLING IS NOT REAL!!!!! Yes it hurts, yes it shortens careers AND lives, but at the same time, none of the moves are done with full force and strength to ensure that moves like the curb stomp don't give wrestlers brain damage or kill them.

No, because the snapmare is not devastating. The curb stomp is. Other moves that are devastating that can come out of nowhere: The RKO, Kofi's Trouble in Paradise, Sweet Chin Music. And if anything, not being able to counter it creates some good drama. Play up the fact that it's all over as soon as he gets into position, and then when it finally happens, it gets a huge reaction.

One of the WWE's main goals is to play up the realism of what you're seeing on their programs. I don't think they're in the business of saying that what you're watching isn't real. This isn't WCW circa 2000. I would say the curb stomp satisfies that criteria.

3. I didn't say it was as vicious as stomping in the corner or a footchoke, i said it was a move used to pass time between spots, like stomping in the corner or a foot choke. In fact, i didn't use the word vicious in my first two posts at all. Read what is said b4 arguing with it!

That was pretty much my way of telling you that it wasn't on the same level of the stomping in the corner or a footchoke. It's a fucking stomp to the back of the head. It's not a rest move by any means.

Overall, i watch wrestling to see the skills and athleticism of the performers, not to b convinced of realism in something that i know isn't real. Curb stomp = crap.
Hopefully other posts will focus on the thread topic rather than bitching about someone else's views on a finishing move.

We all do. But the WWE has a product they want to showcase as looking real. And that last sentence is nothing more than you wanting to try to get the last word.

As far as what they want to do with Burchill, the dirt sheets are reporting whether or not the WWE want to keep playing up the fact Paul and Katie are brother and sister. On the bright side, it pretty much means that they want to keep putting them on TV, but they're still in gimmick limbo. It's amazing how this started off at incest and might get to that point.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Opinions can be wrong. If someone had developed an opinion on a race or a religion based purely on stereotypes, wouldn't that be a wrong opinion?

No, it's an opinion based on wrong facts. As i said, an opinion is based on experiences and information. If the info is wrong then it will produce an opinion that most will not agree with but that does not make it wrong. Show that person the other side of the story and their opinion may very well change. But no, opinions can't b wrong.

He's not going to be squashing jobbers forever.

Er, sorry, are you on the Raw creative team? Do you KNOW that he won't b doing squashes til he gets axed? I originally said he was at Snitsky's level bcoz he's jus doing what Snitsky does. 3 minute squashes on Heat and every other Raw, if there's time, with no promo or fued to develop him and get him over. The only difference is that Burchill has a chick on his arm. If he gets a push fine, well done to him, i'd love to see it happen, but we've seen a number of guys come in and win titles in the space of a week or even on their debut matches and are now either doing nothing or have left. Bashams, Carlito, Duece and Domino, Santino, WGTT all won titles in their first 2 months w/ the company and all of them are now doing nothing in WWE, except Carlito and Santino who r having a piss poor fued that shud have been over and done with by now. Bashams left for TNA after 2 years which is just as long as Burchill has been in WWE now, so how long b4 he goes where his talent will b appreciated? Orton and Cena had all been put in fueds or given time to get noticed on the mic and look at them now. So why not Burchill?

please explain why The Great Khali, Big Daddy V, and Mark Henry are such prominent members of the WWE roster.

Don't ask me, i started a f'n thread asking that same question about why jobbers and guys with no wrestling ability are still in the WWE, but here's the most plausible reasons for those three in particular.
Mark Henry - former Olympian, isn't called the World's Strongest Man for nothing. Has been in WWE for over ten years and according to people like polley:wanna_cracker that's reason enough to keep these guys around despite how crap they are.
Big Daddy V - can pull out some agility when he has too, used for when Taker has nothing better to do and hasn't been there for 3 months so how is that being used prominently? Also see last sentence of Mark Henry point.
Kahli - Has gained a mass of support in India, meaning Kahli = more $$$$ in Vince's pocket. He's also marketed as legit threat to all the over powerhouses like Batista, Show and Taker (altho that idea has now been destroyed coz every time he's faced any of them lately he's jobbed) + Vince gets wet for giants

Play up the fact that it's all over as soon as he gets into position, and then when it finally happens, it gets a huge reaction.

yeah but they don't, so it doesn't

One of the WWE's main goals is to play up the realism of what you're seeing on their programs.

Meaning, in this case, JR calling for EMTs and repeatedly voicing his disgust that the move was allowed in the first place. Again, so far, doesn't happen.

It's a fucking stomp to the back of the head. It's not a rest move by any means.

AGAIN you're focusing on the look and 'realism' of the move rather than what it takes to actually execute it, which is what i'm focusing on. BDV cud do a curb stomp, not gonna see him doing a C4 r ya? Forget the fact that it's a stomp to the head for two seconds and realise that it's a move that you and i cud pull off, whereas i'll openly admit i can't even do a back flip, never mind a C4, which was my whole point in the first place. These guys are supposed to b Gladiators, not average men, so doing moves we can all do as a finisher contradicts that idea entirely.

that last sentence is nothing more than you wanting to try to get the last word.

Wellllll, it was more trying to get this thread (YOUR thread i might add) back on topic, shame it didn't work.
Bottom line, all the best Paul and Katie, wish you hadn't changed your finisher.

 

[Frank the Frowner]

No, it's an opinion based on wrong facts.

It's still a wrong opinion any way you cut it. I like how you conveniently gloss over both points I made about WHY your opinion was wrong.

Er, sorry, are you on the Raw creative team? Do you KNOW that he won't b doing squashes til he gets axed? I originally said he was at Snitsky's level bcoz he's jus doing what Snitsky does. 3 minute squashes on Heat and every other Raw, if there's time, with no promo or fued to develop him and get him over.

It's called a feeling out process. If anything I prefer this to giving an opportunity for a title right off the bat. Snitsky went from the squashes to having character development and feuds, and it didn't pan out. Let's wait to see what happens. The fact that they're giving Burchill and Katie squash handicap matches against jobbers on the flagship show means that they're going to line something up for them. The Toronto crowd at first made me a bit worried about where Burchill went, but if anything, I think it means they're going to accelerate the feeling out process now, and I'm interested to see where it leads.

we've seen a number of guys come in and win titles in the space of a week or even on their debut matches and are now either doing nothing or have left.

I think the titles will come for both Paul and Katie, and the way it should be done, in time. They ruined all those people you mentioned after this point, because they were forced down everyone's throats. Santino was pretty much on the endangered species list, but he made a career-saving change to his character. They're not going to do that with Paul and Katie, and it's for the best.

Don't ask me, i started a f'n thread asking that same question about why jobbers and guys with no wrestling ability are still in the WWE, but here's your reasons for those three in particular.
Mark Henry - former Olympian, isn't called the World's Strongest Man for nothing.
Big Daddy V - can pull out some agility when he has too, used for when Taker has nothing better to do and hasn't been there for 3 months so how is that being used prominently?
Kahli - Has gained a mass of support in India, meaning Kahli = more $$$$ in Vince's pocket.

I'm asking you, because you talked about WWE being the premier place for skill and athleticism. Any way you cut it, these three are not athletic. BDV WAS a prominent wrestler for awhile, until they wanted him to lose weight for his own well-being. And the only agile thing I've seen him do was flop over the top rope.

Besides BDV pulling out "some" athleticism, you didn't give an answer here either. Henry and Khali aren't athletic.

Play up the fact that it's all over as soon as he gets into position, and then when it finally happens, it gets a huge reaction.

yeah but they don't, so it doesn't

How many matches has he had on Raw again? Feeling out process, brother.

Meaning, in this case, JR calling for EMTs and repeatedly voicing his disgust that the move was allowed in the first place. Again, so far, doesn't happen.

How many times has he ever called out for the EMTs, after a finishing move takes place?

AGAIN you're focusing on the look and 'realism' of the move rather than what it takes to actually execute it, which is what i'm focusing on. BDV cud do a curb stomp, not gonna see him doing a C4 r ya? Forget the fact that it's a stomp to the head for two seconds and realise that it's a move that you and i cud pull off, whereas i'll openly admit i can't even do a back flip, never mind a C4.

Well, it looks like we have different philosophies on the merits of the finisher. We're not going to change each other's minds on this. I loved the C4, and when he re-debuted, I was hoping to see it. However, as you conveniently glossed over, it doesn't suit his character, and it would bring back memories of the pirate gimmick.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

It's still a wrong opinion any way you cut it. I like how you conveniently gloss over both points I made about WHY your opinion was wrong.

And i like how you've completely ignored what i said in response. Smoothe. Your points were the C4 wud remind us too much that he was once a pirate. I'm gonna remember that regardless of his moves so that doesn't really matter. Does the Pedigree make you think of HHH as the greenwich blueblood that he started as instead of the Game or the Cerebral assassin? Did HHH get his vicious reputation because of the Pedigree? NOPE! He got it from running people down with cars, forming stables that did countless run ins and hitting people w/ sledgehammers right?
A lot of people felt that the swinging neckbreaker after the curb stomp was overkill according to you. Wouldn't that contribute to his viciousness? And anyway who's 'a lot of people'? Guys on this website? And what % of the fans do the IWC represent anyway? Because all the fans i know who DON'T go on wrestling forums don't like the curb stomp either.

It's called a feeling out process. If anything I prefer this to giving an opportunity for a title right off the bat. Snitsky went from the squashes to having character development and feuds, and it didn't pan out. Let's wait to see what happens.

I like how you conveniently missed out that i said he's been in WWE for 2 years now. How big a feeling out process do you need? + in OVW he was HUGE! We know he can wrestle, and the other guys i mentioned were shoved into programs with talent who were deemed good enuf to b title holders without bothering to see if their gimmicks wud get over. Carlito beat Cena in his first match, and now? Nothing. WGTT hooked up with Angle and wrestled w/ Lesnar straight off the bat, Shelton got a semi push and then dropped and i've no idea why Hass is still in WWE. Santino wrestled Umaga several times, got the hottest diva atm as his valet and did segment work with Austin and now, as i said, is in a fued that is more for Cody Rhodes benefit than anyone elses!

The fact that they're giving Burchill and Katie squash handicap matches against jobbers on the flagship show means that they're going to line something up for them

I'll ask again, are you on the Raw creative team? Snitsky debuted w/ a run with Kane and Lita and later on Edge became involved. That's two ME talent + one of the most popular divas of all time. Everything after that isn't even worth remembering.

I'm asking you, because you talked about WWE being the premier place for skill and athleticism. Any way you cut it, these three are not athletic. BDV WAS a prominent wrestler for awhile, until they wanted him to lose weight for his own well-being. And the only agile thing I've seen him do was flop over the top rope.

Besides BDV pulling out "some" athleticism, you didn't give an answer here either. Henry and Khali aren't athletic.

Kahli is not athletic you're right. But i gave the reason why he's used and we all know it's a fact so there you go. Mark Henry isn't athletic? I'll say this once more... FORMER OLYMPIAN!!!! He gets injured a lot and has no fueds with anyone ever. His last fued was against Taker, and it was exactly the same as the Kane fued b4 WM20 so it sucked. The fans have given up on Mark Henry so it'll take a lot of work to get people to like him again. BDV used to use a spinning heel kick back when he was Viscera, can you name another 500lb man who can do that? If you can, then i'll agree that he's not athletic either. Now he's supposed to b a vicious powerhouse. Repeatedly crushing people and a badass samoan drop not vicious to you? Or have i jus provided an example of a vicious heel who didn't get over based purely on his moves list?

How many times has he ever called out for the EMTs, after a finishing move takes place?

Yeah ok i'll concede that one. But i still don't remember any examples of JR and King helping to put that move over other than a 'Oooooo' or an 'Ahhhh' and maybe a 'There's that move Burchill does' every now and again.

As i said in the 'Reapeat 99-03 success' post, WWE needs to giv promo time and backstage segments to guys like Burchill and Katie instead of countless segments for the ME guys that we'll all pay to see anyway because they're more than over. I seriously don't think that Burchill's moves are going to help him get over.

Enjoyed this debate, agree that we won't change each others minds but thankfully we both agree that Burchill has what it takes to make it, as does Katie. Shame the incest angle never happened tho. Wud have loved to see if it made or broke his career.

 

[Yuffie_Kisaragi]

I would like the idea of Burchill becoming Regals enforce but traditionally enforcers in factions are nothing more than jobbers. Liek the Edge Heads....all theyve really done is job to the Undertaker. Regal and Finlay when they were King Booker enforcers just jobbed to whoever Booker was feuding with.

If Burchill does become Regals enforcer I hope he stays a badass and doesnt start getting beaten every week.

 

[TomSmithUK]

After the Katie Lea and Mickie segment on Raw last night, it got me thinking. Burchill vs Cena...this would be a quick elevation up the card for Burchill, but it would be an interesting match up

 

[Y 2 Jake]

After the Katie Lea and Mickie segment on Raw last night, it got me thinking. Burchill vs Cena...this would be a quick elevation up the card for Burchill, but it would be an interesting match up

They're not going to put the biggest star in the company with Birchill. He hardly get's a reaction, and Cena still get's booed. Birchill would benefit from it, any mid carder would. But it would do more harm than good to Cena. It would also be like a punishment. From somebody like HHH to Birchill would be a real step down.

 

[Rusty]

They're not going to put the biggest star in the company with Birchill. He hardly get's a reaction, and Cena still get's booed. Birchill would benefit from it, any mid carder would. But it would do more harm than good to Cena. It would also be like a punishment. From somebody like HHH to Birchill would be a real step down.

I agree it would be a huge step down for Cena. Birchill needs to IC title to become a force in the WWE because at the moment hes being overshadowed by the already stacked Raw roster. Its not like Jericho needs to Intercontinental Title anyway. I also don't think Cena should be putting talent over just yet as hes still the top dog of the company and gets a huge reaction week in week out.

If Birchill feuds with Y2J and defeats him by a roll up or something to win the IC title, it will do wonders for Birchill and it wont hurt Jericho much at all as they can play it off as "a fluke win".

 

[WinstonDeckard]

It looks like due to RAW that Birchill has entered into a feud with Kennedy which at least shows that they're doing something with Paul finally. Also in the good news column would be the considerable amount of heat he received after his beat down on Kennedy. Hopefully this mean more great things to come for Paul because I've always liked him due to his ring work and I think there's a lot of untapped potential there.

 

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

Nice move on their part. I said it in another thread (or maybe this one? I forget) that Burchill/Kennedy makes perfect sense right now as they can play off Regal's heat and storyline, give both men a program to work with as they both have nothing going on right now, and they can start moving Burchill up to IC level.

Hopefully neither of them messes it up, though lol. Last thing you need if you're one of them is to suddenly get injured or have a suspension.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Nice move on their part. I said it in another thread (or maybe this one? I forget) that Burchill/Kennedy makes perfect sense right now as they can play off Regal's heat and storyline, give both men a program to work with as they both have nothing going on right now, and they can start moving Burchill up to IC level.

Hopefully neither of them messes it up, though lol. Last thing you need if you're one of them is to suddenly get injured or have a suspension.

I'd be looking more toward Mr. Kennedy regarding the suspension aspect of that. However, I'm sure Kennedy is smarter than Hardy, and learned his lesson. Even if he was still abusing, with what happened to Regal and him being involved in that, I'm sure it would've scared the shit outta him that it could've been him.

Either way, this was a perfect move on the creative teams part. I'd love to see this progress into their first match being Sunday, but its way too early. I think next week we'll see Kennedy cut a promo on Burchill, which will lead to a face to face.. either way, both guys could get a decent amount of back and forth matches outta this deal, depending on how the first one goes.

Ironically enough, I've heard W.W.E. wants Kennedy's character to be more of a brawler, and Paul Burchill's style blows Kennedy's out of the water. Burchill is the stereo-typical "brawler" whereas Kennedy might get to take up a more laid-back approach and be a wrestler. I think their styles will work well together and they could get a great feud out of this.

The only issue is, they have to keep it going for 60 days, until Regal returns. Thats roughly them carrying a feud until the Great American Bash, and I'm unsure right now if they can do that, without introducing another helper to team with Burchill, against Kennedy.

Either way, I'm thrilled, excited and blowing nuts left and right over this push they've finally given in to Burchill with. I just wish he'd get a more impactful finisher, than a foot thats meant to be on the back of the guy's head, when its actually in their upper back.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

HELLS yea. This kicks ass. two of my favorites, who I have been begging for a push for, are getting a feud. Goodness, they had better not fuck this up. This could be good, and a great elevation feud for the both of them. Now, if they could possibly bring DH smith along, and stack the cards against Kennedy furthermore, this could get the brits more heat, and Kennedy more face value. Goodness, is the crowd not just lapping up every oppurtunity to cheer like crazy for Kennedy?? Did you hear the huge "USA" chant last night??? Fuck yes. Like ive been saying. The asshole foreighner storyline is always easy heat/face value rub for anyone involved.

 

[HellBoundPower]

I've been a Paul Burchill fan since day one. Lets face it, this guy is amazing. He's got the look, the mic skills, the charisma, and the ring skills to be a future great. He can play a big powerhouse, or an athletic mat technician. He's obviously going to be a future great if he's booked correctly.

Ever since his re-debut, he's pretty much just been squashing jobbers, but now that Regal has been suspended, they're entering him into a feud with Mr. Kennedy, which I think is a good move. We finally get to see him break away from squashing jobbers, and get to see what he can actually do in a high level feud. I see this feud benefiting both Burchill and Kennedy, as long as they have good matches together.

Enter the fact that he has such a great manager in Katie Lea. Most big time players have has a good manager at some point, and I can see Burchill benefiting from that as well, as long as they have stopped pushing the whole incest angle, which was very dumb in the first place. I can see him becoming a major force with such a great manager by his side.

The only real complaint I have about Burchill is "The Curb Stomp". It's a pretty devastating looking move, but I think it would work much better as a set-up move. The C4 was awesome, and I wish he would revert back to that. I can see him countering finishers into the C4, and having really good finishes to matches. The Curb Stomp is just too plain, and there's no excitement when you see it. What he needs is a move that can come out of nowhere, and a move that people are excited to see. Something that can add entertainment value to a match. And the Curb Stomp just isn't it.

 

[mcflyboy]

I think that if creative really wants to push burchill, they should start having him do something to really get him noticed. Have him take on 2 jobbers simultaneously in a handicap match. Have him wander in at the end of a different match to beat on the loser even more. Turn him into a real jerk and bully, while Katie cheers him on and barks out orders to him. Right now, he's just another guy, nothing special who's going to have a quick feud with Kennedy which will end with him losing, and then he'll be buried and forgotten again.

I also was going to say this, but HBP made a comment right before me, beating me to it...but he needs a better finisher. The "curb stomp" looks awkward, and takes a moment to set up right, especially if the opponent doesn't have long hair or anything for him to grab on to...the move on kennedy last monday just looked kind of weird. It's just too limited as far as the type of opponent he could put it on (needs to be someone somewhat on the smaller side). He needs something that can go on just about anyone, and done so quickly without looking so awkward.

 

[Joaquim Akaem]

The only issue is, they have to keep it going for 60 days, until Regal returns. Thats roughly them carrying a feud until the Great American Bash, and I'm unsure right now if they can do that, without introducing another helper to team with Burchill, against Kennedy.

The best way to do that is.. keep them apart as long as possible, Have them cut promos, interfere in each others matches, beat each other up in the parking lot, the possibilities are endless.

If Burchill was to attack Kennedy from behind with a steel bar or something, and beat him so bad that Kennedy had to stay out of the ring for a couple of weeks or so to sell his injuries, then when Kennedy returned, Burchill would use any excuse not to fight him. That would not just keep the storyline going for longer, it would make people even more desperate to see the match where Birchill gets whats comming to him.

It would give Mr Kennedy a good chance to show off his promo skills, and maybe WWE could play the USA angle by having Kennedy fight against DH Smith or even Dave Taylor.

The presence of Katie Lea would also be an advantage here. What if Kennedy could turn up one day with his female manager as back-up, somebody like Candice Michelle. Now that would make a couple of womens matches and would add another week or two to the feud.

This match up has the possibility to become a great rivalry which could make Burchill a mainstay on the roster and push the popularity of Kennedy to insane levels. Either that or Kennedy could squash Burchill next week and that would be the end of it.

 

[Italian MVP]

This is exactly what Burchill needs. Some might say he is taking William Regals spot, but the WWE should of placed this feud before Kennedy took on Regal IMO as Burchill could be build up as Regal's right hand man. Anyway it looks like the feud has the green lights to go, and i think this could be really good. Burchill needs this as he is always waisting his time with random jobbers and Kennedy needs to continue the push he was recieving with Regal.

I think this feud can span out untill Regal gets back and when he comes back he can reassert his authority and he and Burchill can mess with Kennedy possibily leading to their big match at SummerSlam. Either way this should be a pretty good feud and it looks like WWE are actually doing stuff right these days. This is what to do with Paul Burchill but i do agree he needs a new finisher. The stomp is effective but it doesnt really look like a finisher. Once he fixes his finisher, Burchill is going to be great, and i honestly think Kennedy and Burchill will benefit from this a hell of a lot, as i see Burchill having tons of talent and potential and it looks like its finally going to be used in this feud. Lets hope it goes all well and good.