What Might Have Been: Flair vs Hogan in 1985

[It's...Baylariat!]

I've noticed that back in the older territory days, you had the NWA vs WWWF champion very often in one another's territory.

Harley Race fought Superstar Billy Graham, Bob Backlund faced Ric Flair, etc. How come Hogan never fought Flair?

Back in 1985, both JCP and the WWF were as hot as a wildfire in California. Hogan was slap dab in the middle of Hulkamania and Flair was beating everyone pillar to post and making millions while doing it.

I don't see how this couldn't have happened. You do a time limit draw a few times, have both go back to their respective territory and say they're the better man and let the debate wage on. Many might say Hogan wouldn't have went with the draw and would have wanted a clean pin over Flair and others would say Flair would have wanted himself to go over Hogan.

I wonder what happened to prevent this match from taking place back when it should have? Let's speculate.

What do you think happened to prevent this match from taking place?
How would you book Hogan vs Flair in 1985?
Do you have one lose clean to the other or do a DQ or Time limit draw in all their matches?

DISCUSS!

 

[Catacomb]

i think the main thing is vince buying wwf around that time. whereas mcmahon sr would work with the territories and respect their boundaries vince jr went into competition with everyone.

 

[Bobbywoodhogan]

Would have been awesome but in my opinion it was awesome in 1994 so I'm happy the way it worked out

 

[FlairFan2003]

When Vince took over WWE from his father he started his "national expansion" plans very quickly. That meant limiting his talent from appearing on rival promoters shows.

Typically these "inter-promotional" matches were exhibitions for one of the champs, booked when the "traveling" champ had time off and wanted extra money. I believe the Backlund-Flair match was in Atlanta, which would mean it was Backlund who was "off" and picking up the extra pay day in a rivals territory. It was understood ahead of time that no pinfalls or definitive endings would occur, so that neither champ was significantly booked better than the other. Thanks to magazines like Pro Wrestling Illustrated many fans knew there were rival wrestling companies outside their area and what they got on their local TV. These bouts just took advantage of that.

Flair for instance would make appearances in the AWA periodically as a favor to Verne Gangne, who originally trained him. He was clearly presented as the NWA Champ and sometimes would wrestled preliminary wrestlers to be shown on TV in addition to facing top AWA talent. He didn't go into the AWA to lose however as that would have been a big blow to Crockett/NWA. Flair would also take independent bookings over seas a lot back then (early - mid 80s). In Japan, where the US wrestling magazines covered the industry Flair (and other US wrestlers) had to protect their characters and typically did not lose. Flair famously fought a 60 minute draw against AWA Champ Rick Martel in Japan, then teamed with him the next night in a US vs Japan tag match. In South America, where the US wrestling press didn't cover what happened, Flair would agree to "lose" the title to a territory's top star, then stay in town for the inevitable re match in which he would prevail (often by cheating to give the local hero an out in the loss), a strategy that enabled him to make twice as much money main eventing two shows.

As the original poster pointed out in the US Champ vs Champ matches were not uncommon and other sets of champs fought them. Once Vince Jr took over he couldn't afford for his wrestlers to appear on a rival show, even in their off time, as it would lend credibility to the rival promotion. Likewise Vince didn't acknowledge that any other wrestling outside WWE existed for almost a decade after taking over, so he wouldn't book even a one night stand for a wrestler from another company on his show until they agreed to work for him full time. Flair in 91 was the first wrestler Vince's WWE ever acknowledged had an actual wrestling career before WWE although the NWA/WCW was never mentioned by name (Flair was referred to as having been a decorated champion around the World coming to WWE to win the most prestigious title, the WWE Title).

In any event, that's why Hogan never wrestled any of those bouts like Flair, Race, Graham, Backlund, Martel, etc did. By 1986 Crockett started putting similar restrictions on his talent, including Flair who was pretty much restricted to just occassional trips to Japan for any outside the NWA work.

 

[FlairFan2003]

As far how would the match have been booked in 1985....well, Hogan wasn't nearly as good a wrestler as Flair, he couldn't keep up with Flair in a long match like Martel did for example (the Backlund match lasted over 30 minutes as well). Personally I think you would have gotten a slightly faster paced version of their 1991 WWE matches, which was essentially the same match they put on at Bash At The Beach 94. Hogan would mock Flair's strut, Flair would show his power and mock Hogan's physique, Flair would get one or two shoulder block take downs to show he had power, Hogan would pull a couple wristlock/arm lock reversals to show he could wrestle, then they'd brawl a bit with Hogan having the advantage, each guy would get maybe one rally, Hogan would take the match outside but Flair would take the advantage outside, Hogan would be hurt, Flair would nail the Figure Four, Hogan would reverse and start his "Hulk Up", typical Hogan but Flair would escape the leg drop, they would continue brawling, and the bout would have ended up in a double count-out most likely with both men fighting outside the ring, probably lasting bell to bell 20-25 minutes tops which was about the limit Hogan could go in his prime and matched his biggest matches against Savage & Flair.

 

[thebarber]

it happened on very few occasions the NWA Champ vs WWF Champ back in the late 70s early 80s, it was not something that happened all the time.
Backlund vs Race happened when Graham vs Race 2 was supposed to go down, but due to Graham dropping the title, Backlund assumed Grahams set title defenses.

 

[Reflection]

I feel it was scrapped because they didn't want one guy to look inferior to the other. By my understanding, back then, wins and losses mattered a lot more than they do today (just like championship wins); for instance, Randy Orton lost to Kofi and Cesaro this year, but he is still The Viper that we know. Also, they probably felt that having a great feud and ending it with a draw or inconclusive result would be a turn-off and not worth the effort. The egos/politics could also come into play, ala Shawn vs Bret a decade later (and see what that resulted in!).

Since it's 1985, I would have picked Hulk Hogan to win over Ric Flair, but after a tough, nasty and grueling fight nonetheless. Hogan was the biggest shot in pro-wrestling back then, and I'd keep him at #1. If it was 5-6 years later, then I would have picked Flair over him.

I would like it to be a best-of-three-matches; something like a Steel Cage match, a Lumberjack match (if it even existed back then), and a Last Man Standing Match (which could be made dramatic like Rocky Balboa vs Apollo Creed in the second movie, without making either guy look weak). I wouldn't pick an Iron Man match, because neither guys have a good stock of pin-obtainable moves, and it would've been the same moves over and over again; TLC match neither existed back then, nor would it suit their style; an "I Quit!" match would make one of them look like a quitter. Finding the right combination would be really important, so that even if one guy wins the series 2-1, both of them come out looking stronger.

 

[Tastycles]

It never happened because there was absolutely no commercial benefit to the WWF whatsoever in doing so. 10% of the American population was watching WWF programming by 1985. 80% of homes did not even have access to TBS, the only way of seeing Flair. Flair may have been big with the old school wrestling audience, but McMahon had correctly identified that making new fans was the way forward.

Making Flair a credible threat to Hogan would have meant putting him on WWF programming for ages before any fight, to then split the payoff. Alternatively, the WWF could build Rowdy Roddy Piper, their own star, and have him face Hogan with exactly the same level of audience income - remember Hogan then pretty much sold out venues without fail - except they wouldn't have to give half of the proceeds to a nothing organisation that was hundreds of millions of dollars and a decade of time away from being a legitimate competitor.

Would WWF have signed Flair if he was a free agent then? Possibly, but you can bet your bottom dollar that he'd have built him as a threat in WWF for a long while before he got anywhere near Hogan. A champion vs champion match would have been a joke though. The older matches came when Sammartino and Backlund were champions and NWA was at a similar level to WWF. In 1984-88, the gulf in size between the two companies had never been bigger and probably never was again. Honestly, at that point, it would be akin to the Ring of Honor champion challenging John Cena now.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

A lot of it comes down to the strategy Vince was pursuing, not just in terms of aggressively acquiring companies and squeezing the territories for talent but also in terms of the perception he was trying to create with the public. For his whole gambit to work, he needed the public to buy Hulk Hogan as THE champion of the world...that his belt was the only one worth seeing, that stars like Mr. T and Ali would turn up for and that the WWF was where the cream of the crop wrestled, and Hogan was the cherry on top of that cream.

Ric Flair could have had a big role in a 1985 WWF but would have been number 2 and he would never have accepted it. There was no benefit to Vince in presenting 2 world champions unless Flair showed up, lost the NWA belt and that was never going to happen in a million years (well 6 actually, not in 85 anyway) as Flair had loyalty and his own ego and self belief. Hogan would have been "shown up" by Flair, Vince wasn't prepared to take the risk of anyone going into business for themselves during a match, it's why Dr. D, Bruiser Brody and Jesse Ventura were ruled out as opponents for Mania 1... Piper was no threat to Hogan, only to T... Flair in Piper or Orndorff's place would have shown Hogan AND T up badly and he would never have taken the step down from World title to IC title.

The natural time for this match was really 1990 - instead of Warrior, ironic as Flair was there barely a year later and Warrior bombed so badly. Had this feud taken place in 1990, for example involving a new "Horsemen" of Flair, Arn, Tully and Rude, Hennig or even Bret Hart or Davey Boy then who knows where it would have gone? But Vince always preferred his muscular guys, and even in 1992 didn't give Flair his full confidence..hell the only small guy to get it was Bret after Hogan had burned him for the last time.

The other side of it was what else could Flair do? Who could he work in 1985 on the WWF Roster who had value? There is only the IC Division, which basically meant Tito Santana (never a Flair type of opponent), Ricky Steamboat (OK but again not really the right time for them to be stealing shows) and then you're on to either talent yet to be fully established like Bret Hart, Barry Windham or David Sammartino (shudders)... If you make Flair a face you negate his great talents and end up forcing him with Sheiky Baby/Volkoff, Muraco, Masked Superstar... none of them would have been good matches... Sure he could have done something with Piper or Orndorrf but it would have been horrid.

In 1990? Sure, as a heel he could have worked with Hogan, Steamboat, Bret, Davey, Jake, Rhodes, Von Eric... even Big Bossman would have been a great opponent for Flair... Flair as a face in 1990 and he can face Savage, DiBiase, Rude, Hennig, Martel, Jacques Rougeau... lots of options but in 1985 it would have meant shopping for talent to fit him...and they were already shopping for Hogan's opponents and guys to make HIM look good.

 

[FlairFan2003]

It never happened because there was absolutely no commercial benefit to the WWF whatsoever in doing so. 10% of the American population was watching WWF programming by 1985. 80% of homes did not even have access to TBS, the only way of seeing Flair. Flair may have been big with the old school wrestling audience, but McMahon had correctly identified that making new fans was the way forward.

Making Flair a credible threat to Hogan would have meant putting him on WWF programming for ages before any fight, to then split the payoff. Alternatively, the WWF could build Rowdy Roddy Piper, their own star, and have him face Hogan with exactly the same level of audience income - remember Hogan then pretty much sold out venues without fail - except they wouldn't have to give half of the proceeds to a nothing organisation that was hundreds of millions of dollars and a decade of time away from being a legitimate competitor.

Would WWF have signed Flair if he was a free agent then? Possibly, but you can bet your bottom dollar that he'd have built him as a threat in WWF for a long while before he got anywhere near Hogan. A champion vs champion match would have been a joke though. The older matches came when Sammartino and Backlund were champions and NWA was at a similar level to WWF. In 1984-88, the gulf in size between the two companies had never been bigger and probably never was again. Honestly, at that point, it would be akin to the Ring of Honor champion challenging John Cena now.

It should be noted that the most watched wrestling show in the mid to late 80s according to Pro Wrestling Illustrated was WCW Sat Nite on TBS, they had access all over the US and were the most watched cable channel by far (back then there were not nearly as many able channels as now). Several million people each week watched (comparable to RAW today) which was what prompted Vince to seek a deal with the USA network for his Monday Night Prime Time Wrestling show (which didn't draw as many ratings as WCW Sat Night).

The success of WWE TV wise came in their syndicated programming and their exposure via NBC Sat Night Main Event platform. Remember, although Vince had a national presence, his WWE did not out draw the NWA in Florida, GA, NC, SC, Kentucky, WVA, TENN, and struggled against them in St Louis & Pittsburgh. The NWA at that time (1985-88) was very popular in Chicago & Philadelphia too where Vince tried to keep them out of the biggest arenas by promising so many events per year to get exclusivity agreements.

Even WWE estimates it lost as much 5 million dollars in PPV revenue for W-Mania IV because of the success of the Flair-Sting match on the Clash Of Champions in 1988 on TBS.

Dont underestimate the "national presence" of the NWA at that point.

Fact was, Vince didn't allow any of his guys to work elsewhere once he was in charge, not just Hogan. It was Backlund's last year as champ I believe when he had a Title vs Title match vs Flair but that was still Vince Sr I think. By 1986 Jim Crockett was doing the same thing stopping Flair from guest appearing on the AWA shows etc that he used to do when he had time off from his NWA schedule.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

It should be noted that the most watched wrestling show in the mid to late 80s according to Pro Wrestling Illustrated was WCW Sat Nite on TBS, they had access all over the US and were the most watched cable channel by far (back then there were not nearly as many able channels as now). Several million people each week watched (comparable to RAW today) which was what prompted Vince to seek a deal with the USA network for his Monday Night Prime Time Wrestling show (which didn't draw as many ratings as WCW Sat Night).

The success of WWE TV wise came in their syndicated programming and their exposure via NBC Sat Night Main Event platform. Remember, although Vince had a national presence, his WWE did not out draw the NWA in Florida, GA, NC, SC, Kentucky, WVA, TENN, and struggled against them in St Louis & Pittsburgh. The NWA at that time (1985-88) was very popular in Chicago & Philadelphia too where Vince tried to keep them out of the biggest arenas by promising so many events per year to get exclusivity agreements.

Even WWE estimates it lost as much 5 million dollars in PPV revenue for W-Mania IV because of the success of the Flair-Sting match on the Clash Of Champions in 1988 on TBS.

Dont underestimate the "national presence" of the NWA at that point.

Fact was, Vince didn't allow any of his guys to work elsewhere once he was in charge, not just Hogan. It was Backlund's last year as champ I believe when he had a Title vs Title match vs Flair but that was still Vince Sr I think. By 1986 Jim Crockett was doing the same thing stopping Flair from guest appearing on the AWA shows etc that he used to do when he had time off from his NWA schedule.

This is exactly where I am coming from... Vince didn't HAVE the TV penetration, it's why he did stuff like buy the Georgia slot. He was playing catch-up and also trying to launch Wrestlemania and PPV as the chosen vehicle for his shows to thrive on. Wrestling had ALWAYS been on TV in some form so most people knew it in some form, many had a casual awareness of names in the business who didn't avidly watch but Vince was going all out to get Wrestling to mean WWF in the hearts and minds of everyone, from the die hard fan of the NWA to the most casual viewer who only bought Mania cos of Mr. T. Whether he allowed guys to work anywhere else wasn't the point, he had a juggernaut building and had to control talent to feed it... live gate was everything, it wasn't just a show, but A and B even C shows in different towns... he couldn't let talent "off" in the way his father had and expand as he wanted. As Jake famously said, they were obligated to wrestle or to be available to if required every calendar day...because Vince was running large numbers of shows, more than had ever been attempted...and on a national scale.

TV was just a vehicle then, PPV was a vehicle but the live gate was king and while Flair would have probably drawn big crowds, Vince already had Andre who was proven and loyal to lead those B shows...and then Savage and later Warrior.

 

[FlairFan2003]

A lot of it comes down to the strategy Vince was pursuing, not just in terms of aggressively acquiring companies and squeezing the territories for talent but also in terms of the perception he was trying to create with the public. For his whole gambit to work, he needed the public to buy Hulk Hogan as THE champion of the world...that his belt was the only one worth seeing, that stars like Mr. T and Ali would turn up for and that the WWF was where the cream of the crop wrestled, and Hogan was the cherry on top of that cream.

Ric Flair could have had a big role in a 1985 WWF but would have been number 2 and he would never have accepted it. There was no benefit to Vince in presenting 2 world champions unless Flair showed up, lost the NWA belt and that was never going to happen in a million years (well 6 actually, not in 85 anyway) as Flair had loyalty and his own ego and self belief. Hogan would have been "shown up" by Flair, Vince wasn't prepared to take the risk of anyone going into business for themselves during a match, it's why Dr. D, Bruiser Brody and Jesse Ventura were ruled out as opponents for Mania 1... Piper was no threat to Hogan, only to T... Flair in Piper or Orndorff's place would have shown Hogan AND T up badly and he would never have taken the step down from World title to IC title.

The natural time for this match was really 1990 - instead of Warrior, ironic as Flair was there barely a year later and Warrior bombed so badly. Had this feud taken place in 1990, for example involving a new "Horsemen" of Flair, Arn, Tully and Rude, Hennig or even Bret Hart or Davey Boy then who knows where it would have gone? But Vince always preferred his muscular guys, and even in 1992 didn't give Flair his full confidence..hell the only small guy to get it was Bret after Hogan had burned him for the last time.

The other side of it was what else could Flair do? Who could he work in 1985 on the WWF Roster who had value? There is only the IC Division, which basically meant Tito Santana (never a Flair type of opponent), Ricky Steamboat (OK but again not really the right time for them to be stealing shows) and then you're on to either talent yet to be fully established like Bret Hart, Barry Windham or David Sammartino (shudders)... If you make Flair a face you negate his great talents and end up forcing him with Sheiky Baby/Volkoff, Muraco, Masked Superstar... none of them would have been good matches... Sure he could have done something with Piper or Orndorrf but it would have been horrid.

In 1990? Sure, as a heel he could have worked with Hogan, Steamboat, Bret, Davey, Jake, Rhodes... even Big Bossman would have been a great opponent for Flair... Flair as a face in 1990 and he can face Savage, DiBiase, Rude, Hennig, Martel... lots of options but in 1985 it would have meant shopping for talent to fit him...and they were already shopping for Hogan's opponents.

The whole reason it didn't happen is Vince didn't let his guys wrestle outside WWE, like his father did. Jim Crockett started doing the same thing around 1986. Remember, those past matches happened when one of the champs was not working for their company, taking the match on their time off. WWE was not involved in promoting WWE Champ Backlund vs NWA Champ Flair in a Title vs Title Match, the match happened in NWA territory and was an NWA match. Backlund was making extra money off his WWE schedule. Flair did this stuff stuff all the time with his South American trips and multiple appearances in Japan. They were never joint ventures between the companies. However, it was always agreed that neither champ could look bad or be beaten by the other, so there were always some sort of draw scenario (Backlund/Flair was a double count-out, Flair vs AWA Champ Martel was a 60 minute draw in Japan).

Vince did try to get Flair around 1985 and made a major pitch in 1988 (some stories indicate he offered Flair the main event/WWE Title Match at the first S-Slam PPV vs Savage if he jumped). He clearly saw the money in Flair (not too mention how bad it would hurt the NWA). Flair would have been the #1 villain on the show, Hogan the #1 good guy, and likely would have gotten the title at some point, although like Savage while he may have gotten a good reign and good matches he would have had to cede #1 spot back to Hogan at some point.

As far as who could Flair have worked with as a heel in 1985 remember WWE didn't want anyone overshadowing Hogan, Savage and others who could work great matches were not allowed to show off because they couldn't overshadow Hulk. Flair, like Savage, would have had to tone his act down considerably for the Disney era WWE. He was still great at working crowds in the ring, even wrestling shorter. more compact matches (which is why he adapted so well in the Nitro/Raw era) and even if you toned down the womanizing references and his penchant for vulgar language (Flair was known for the ocaassional "Oh Sh&%" or F-Bomb when getting beaten bad in the ring) he was still great on the mic. Savage & Piper had to tone their acts down for Disney Land WWE and did just fine. Flair as a 1985 heel would have been a great opponent for Orndorff, Santana (exactly the perfect opponent for Flair, smooth ring hand, good technical wrestler, an image Flair could poke fun and denigrate), and he could adapted just fine as a cowardly (but cunning) heel in matches vs less talented power guys like Hercules & Billy Jack Haynes (who he wrestled in the early 80s in the NWA). Yes, he wouldn't have had the mat classics like he did in that 85-89 era in the NWA but if Savage or Piper would have been in the NWA they would have had many more memorable matches quality wise, the NWA just allowed its wrestlers more freedom, both with the athletic, technical side and with the hard core stuff (WWE 1980s cage matches are a joke compared to the NWA blood baths of the time). I think that's all irrelevant.

The match didn't happen because those matches previously were never joint ventures between the companies and Vince wouldn't let his talent work outside WWE on their own time.

Really the best time for the match under either banner would have been 1989, Flair's exposure on TBS basically made him a household name among wrestling fans, even people who didn't watch the NWA knew who he was and how important he was, his stretch of matches in 1985-87 produced some of his best ring work, his bouts vs Steamboat & Funk in 1989 were among his most popular. Hogan meanwhile had the mammoth growth of WrestleMania and his career defining matches vs Andre & Savage on his resume at that point.

 

[FlairFan2003]

This is exactly where I am coming from... Vince didn't HAVE the TV penetration, it's why he did stuff like buy the Georgia slot. He was playing catch-up and also trying to launch Wrestlemania and PPV as the chosen vehicle for his shows to thrive on. Wrestling had ALWAYS been on TV in some form so most people knew it in some form, many had a casual awareness of names in the business who didn't avidly watch but Vince was going all out to get Wrestling to mean WWF in the hearts and minds of everyone, from the die hard fan of the NWA to the most casual viewer who only bought Mania cos of Mr. T. Whether he allowed guys to work anywhere else wasn't the point, he had a juggernaut building and had to control talent to feed it... live gate was everything, it wasn't just a show, but A and B even C shows in different towns... he couldn't let talent "off" in the way his father had and expand as he wanted. As Jake famously said, they were obligated to wrestle or to be available to if required every calendar day...because Vince was running large numbers of shows, more than had ever been attempted...and on a national scale.

TV was just a vehicle then, PPV was a vehicle but the live gate was king and while Flair would have probably drawn big crowds, Vince already had Andre who was proven and loyal to lead those B shows...and then Savage and later Warrior.

Vince's national expansion (though it really means little to this debate) was handled very smartly. Absent the kind of reach TBS provided Crockett/NWA (which as you point out Vince did buy at one point, only to be forced to sell back due to the large number of protesting fans who wanted the NWA associated product back), he would buy slots on local TV for his syndicated shows to air in a market. Back then the promotions typically didn't but TV time for their syndicated shows outside their core areas. Vince's production techniques and presentation were way ahead of everyone else (he had worked in promotions for an arena in CT I think before he ran WWE, dealing with rock shows, etc). He showcased his flashier, more professional looking product in the local market for awhile before running shows there. When he did (finally) run a show it was a stacked card, as many top stars as he could muster, including Hogan, to give it a "Special Event" feel. Then he wouldn't run shows in that area for awhile, building interest in his return. Meanwhile he was on the hunt for any top talent that could help him, stealing Valentine, Piper, Jake, Steamboat from the Crockett/NWA, Henning & The Rockers from the AWA, Rude from the NWA (he had jumped to the NWA from World Class), Terry Taylor & Ultimate Warrior from UWF, Savage from the Mid South area (he wrestled in a variety of areas including his father's promotion), DiBiase from Mid South, Race from Mid South, etc, etc. By the time he signed Kerry Von Erich from World Class they were almost out of business (The Freebirds had jumped to the NWA at the same time). He bolstered his roster by picking off the best talent that helped draw for the competition while building his brand in their core areas through syndicated TV. Evventually the USA network deal helped him compete nationally in terms of weekly viewers with TBS, but by then he already gotten mainstream publicity for WWE through the use of non wrestling celebrities at WrestleMania.

Fact is, Jim Crockett operated much the same way. He pulled Jimmy Garvin & The Road Warriors out of the AWA, got The Rock & Roll Express out of Mid South, Sting from the UWF, Barry Whyndam from WWE, Rude from World Class (though he bolted a year later for WWE), Steve Williams from World Class, Kevin Sullivan from Florida, Mike Rotunda from FLA (after a WWE stint), Tully Blanchard from World Class, Lex Luger from FLA. Most of those made huge contributions to the NWA brand. Likewise he expanded his syndicated TV base into other promotions areas to complement the TBS coverage (I don't remember NWA programming on local TV in Pgh in 1984 or 85 but I definitely remember it by 1986).

Where he was different, or more aggressive, than Vince was in his travel schedule. Crockett wanted to turn other top cities in rival areas into monthly or bi monthly standards for his touring outfit. WWE still managed most of their house shows (the most important source of revenue back then with PPV in it's infancy) in his core area around NY, NJ, CT, Delaware, and parts of Canada near the border. His forays into rival territories were not done monthly. Crockett had success invading Pittsburgh, a WWE mainstay since it's inception due to it's closeness to NY & CT and the fact WWE Champ Bruno Sammartino was from here and did so well in Philly that McMahon had to promise he would do a set amount of events each year to exclusivity agreements with the biggest arena in town (relegating the NWA shows to the #2 arena). Vince followed suit locking up arenas in his core area (although he lost Nassau Coliseum and The Meadowlands for awhile). He did the same thing in CHI where both companies were very popular.

Crockett thus incurred major travel expenses with cross country travel that McMahon did not, simultaneously ignoring his base where he could sell out shows monthly through much of NC, SC, GA, FLA, KY, TENN, WVA, St Louis, etc. It was not a cost effective way to battle Vince who made only occasional forays traveling across the country into rival territories while relying on his slickly produced TV productions and mainstream media presence thanks to celebrity guest spots to raise his profile (while running most of his shows in his core areas of strength). This made his shows like "Special Events" when he did appear and guaranteed top attendance each time, where as Crockett's shows did not reach max attendance for each trip since they made them all the time. The success didn't match the cost.

Crockett's back breaking purchase of the bankrupt UWF didn't help (he was convinced he had to buy the company, locking up it's TV and talent to keep them away from Vince). However, not all the UWF talent was useable on an already stacked NWA roster talent wise, plus the UWF had considerable debts that the NWA now had to pay (you buy the company, you get all their holding but you also get all the debt). Plus, most of the UWF TV contracts for syndicated TV were in areas the NWA already had exposure (like here in PGH). Crockett spent a loot of money and gained little in terms of new TV deals in new areas or useable talent, plus was saddled with un paid bills . Compare that Vince 25 years later when WCW died, he didn't buy WCW, he left the talent, any property, etc all under Time Warner/AOL. He picked off the video library (so a competing wrestling company couldn't use the footage to establish a connection with audience or promote any of the talent) and bought the rights to the name (and some of their PPV names I believe). He offered structured buyouts to any talent he was interested in if they would break their Time Warner Contracts and re sign new deals with him (Time Warner agreed to let any talent out their deals with no penalties). He never bough one contract from any talent (that's why guys like Flair, Hogan, Nash, Goldberg waited so long to jump ship, they had guaranteed money coming from Time Warner they didn't want to forfeit as they knew there would still be interest and value to them later on). Vince came in, bought what had value, left everything else behind and cherry picked talent he wanted. Given that business sense I doubt he would have been suckered into buying the failed UWF, no one back then understood the value of the video library as they do know thanks to home video/dvd, but Vince could have fought Crockett for little talent he though useable (other than Sting, Warrior, & S. Williams how many UWF guys really made a major impact going forward ?) and since both had TV contracts in most of the UWF cities they could have negotiated with the local TV (if they wanted) to buy the now free time slots without inheriting a bloated roster and unwanted debt.

The NWA had some considerable success (far greater national presence than either ROH or TNA have today - by a wide margin), and in fact that audience was what put them back in the game in the mid 90s with the Hogan/Savage/Flair/Sting show and later on with the original NWO storyline. Don't underestimate their national role. Vince was much smarter business wise when it came to expansion however, there is no doubt.

In the end, the match didn't happen in 1985 simply because Vince couldn't let his talent work outside WWE once he started expansion and these prior matches always involved one of the champs appearing on their own time outside their normal schedule. By 1986 Crockett was doing the same thing. By 1986-87 both companies had a significant national presence and never would work together. Vince did try to get Flair to work for him a couple times in the 1980s but failed.