What is so special about Savage vs Steamboat?

[RkoMachine]

I'll start off by saying that this is a Great match and definitely match of the night! But to be considered one of the best matches of all time?

I just dont see it! I know you will all give me tons of crap for my opinion on this which is not what I'm looking for, I wanna know why! Why is this considered to be such an iconic match? Its not very long (just about 15 minutes) ended with a roll up (which people bitch about when that happens today) I'll admit it had some great athleticism which you would expect from the wrestlers involved, also some great near falls.... BUT WHAT MAKES IT SO GREAT?!

I feel like there are other matches out there that were better but dont get the respect that this match gets. Matches like Michaels/Jericho Mania 19, Angle/Beniot Royal Rumble 2003, Michaels/Undertaker Mania 25 are matches that come to mind. Sure they are talked about plenty and most know how amazing the matches were but I feel like Savage/Steamboat is still wildly considered to be better! which I respectably disagree with. So what am I missing guys?

Please dont reply to this just to be a troll and say my opinion is wrong! I am asking for your opinion because I want to agree with all of you! Are you seeing something I'm not? Please enlighten me

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Because my dick grows three sizes when I see it.

I don't know, you seem to be looking for some objective opinion of something that occurred and has been watched by different people at different times over the course of 25+ years.

Like you said about your favorite matches, it is what comes to mind. What was so much better about those matches? Can you really break it down?

If I had to guess what was so great and it would be a guess since I first saw it a long time ago: the build was cool, I really liked Steamboat and really hated Savage as a kid. The ring bell to the throat bothered me so it was good to see Steamboat get some revenge. Maybe 15 minutes is about the right match length for my attention span. Liz was a nice hood ornament to the match. I don't remember the commentators ruining it, which is a nice touch.

That's about all I got. Not trying to be a troll but you are really asking us to share feelings. Feelings are really hard to quantify.

 

[RkoMachine]

Maybe thats my problem then! I was 1 when this match happened and didnt actually see it until my aunt showed me it on VHS years later (not for this match but for Hogan/Andre) I of course have seen it many other times now but seeing it now and not seeing the buildup may be the answer

 

[boozinjedi]

What else made it so great....In the day of posing body builders back in the 80's it was so different to see 2 guys put on a physical,high spot faster paced match.
You just didn't see that many near falls in that day and age.
The story behind it and the buildup was amazing
It still stands out as a great match even today

 

[BuriedByCena]

Because WWE revisionist history. That mania they fought on sucked hard and they were the best match by default. It makes them look better than they actually were.

The only other match on the card worth a damn was Hogan/Andre....the rest of the card was a stinker. It was one of the worst WrestleMania's in history. I think only a couple WM's were worse overall.

 

[rbv13]

You have to look at in the context of the time period. When the match went down it was over the top and groundbreaking. What they did at WMIII set the table and inspired future generations. It is about recognizing the importance of and respecting history. If you look at baseball Babe Ruth is regarded as one of the best ever. Its likely he wouldn't even make a roster today but in the time frame he was a bad ass.

 

[Mr_Ratings]

Wait... I really dont comment on these. But Babe Ruth wouldve at least been a DH haha

 

[FromGlasgow]

Its not my number one favourite match ever but I do think it was one of the best of all time, It wouldn't be easy to pinpoint the exact reason why though other than opinion of how much I enjoyed it, I would consider a great match depending on how much I personally enjoyed it whether the IWC consider it to be great or not, You don't have to enjoy this particular match because some of the IWC says so.

 

[Pedigree1]

The fact that this match is being talked about 30 years later and is recognized as one of the best all-time matches is what is so special.. True the whole build was Andre Vs Hulk,little did anyone know at the time would Steamboat vs Savage steal the show,let alone have that match live forever..

When you talk about a match 30 years later,and you still never get sick of seeing it,your seeing something special.. 19 near falls. The whole Heel savage wanting to end the career of The Dragon.. I know for a fact,that Savage invited Steamboat to his house prior to the match,and they worked the match over and over again.. On that night,they had awesome chemistry,amazing storytelling and after it was over,everyone backstage gave them a standing ovation..

If these two had a match today in their prime it still would be considered one of the best ever! It was just pure magic that night

 

[HeyYo]

@RKOmachine.... The Savage-Steamboat is a classic match in Wrestlemania history due to the story going into the match. Steamboat wanted revenge for Savag's ring bell attack on Superstars TV taping for the IC Title. There was also the Saturday Nights Main Event before Mania where Steamboat made his return, surprising Savage. The match itself was great with the near falls. Today, near falls are done in every match.

@Buried by Cena..... You have no idea what you're talking about at all. Thought WM3 wasn't the best, it had some very good matches filled with drama. There was Savage-Steamboat, Hogan-Andre, The CanAm Connection match, Piper-Adonis, The Dream Team-Rougeaus where Beefcake turns babyface and winds up cutting Adonis' hair in the Piper/Adonis match. You have no idea what you are talking about. Carry on.

 

[Daggdag]

Two wrestlers of their ability facing off is always great.
Add the fact that it was booked and sold to perfection, and you have one of the best matches of all time.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

It told an amazing story in the ring, and was a very well executed, scientific match between two all-time great ring generals.

The build was great, too. Savage attacked Steamboat with the ring bell and 'crushed his throat' to the point where Steamboat couldn't breath and nearly 'died' of his injuries. Savage was the Intercontinental champion and had been for almost TWO years at that point, unless he lost the title between beating Tito Santana for it back in 1984.

It was also at Wrestlemania 3 and invented the phrase 'stealing the show' when it comes to a non-main event match at Wrestlemania being better than the actual main event itself, which is debatable in it's own right.

It all depends on your personal taste in wrestling, I suppose. To me, it's a very compelling match with a great build and conclusion.

 

[Kidpolean]

Umm...nothing really. It was a good match that has become overrated overtime. I dont even think it was Macho's best match. For its time...it was one of the greatest ever, same as Michaels vs Razor and Owen vs Bret. As time passes people evolve and get stronger and more athletic which makes it hard for matches to stand the test of time. I personally love the match but Id take Mysterio vs Jericho at the Bash over it any day of the week as far as intercontinental title matches go. Either way it is easily a top 10 wrestlemania match of all time.

 

[ComeOnVince]

I think one of the reasons it's considered that is because of the build-up and the execution, both in context. Other posters have already mentioned these aspects. The near-falls, for example, seem routine today, but real near-falls were rare and dramatic in those days. Sort of like in the 90s, for the most part, when Stone Cold hit a stunner, that match was done. When Rock or someone else kicked out, it was a big deal. But then it started to happen more and more and more. These days, we get 20 F5's and 15 Attitude Adjustments in the same match. It runs the drama too thin. When we view a Savage-Steamboat match from the 80s, we are looking at it backwards through the lens of today and many years in between. In its context though, this match is unbelievably good.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The reason the match worked so well is not something people have touched on yet although the guy saying the "card was bad" was closer than most.

The reality is that while Hogan had exploded, the first 2 Mania's were little more than throwaway shows building to one storyline match. At Mania one you had little else in storyline development other than the main event and Andre and Studd... At 2 even less, there was only Hogan and Bundy and Piper and Mr. T with real angles.

Mania 3 was where the tradtional "feud based" WWF really came into being, where everyone in a match was actually in that match because of an ongoing issue rather than a "random" match up like at the first 2. You had Honky Tonk and Jake, Piper and Adonis, Hogan and Andre and of course Savage v Steamboat.

It's wrong to say revisionist history puts it at the top, the day after Mania people knew not only had it stolen the show but was the best "televised" match that had ever been put on. Of all those feud matches on the night, it was Savage and The Dragon who delivered not only a blistering, see-saw spectacle, but the angle truly "paid off" in a satisfying way. Hogan slamming Andre wasn't that moment, it was pre-ordained but Ricky getting revenge for what at that time was the most brutal injury portrayed on WWF TV struck a chord with the fans.

The match itself was flawlessly prepared and executed. Many today compare it to Davey v Bret less favourable because it was so choreographed, where as Summerslam was more "called in the ring" but that is nonsense. That the outcome came off perfectly with no mistakes was perhaps more luck than judgement but this was the match that proved the WWF COULD provide that kind of spectacle, that held up to Flair's 60 minute legends held in arenas in the south for the NWA belt. The near falls were part of it but not much more than the sizzle... the actual substance was that this was a match that seemed real, not a Hogan decimation but 2 guys putting it all on the line over what at the time seemed a very personal, intense issue, something WWF hadn't portrayed on PPV or TV yet... Indeed the thing that puts this over Davey and Bret is that for all the family feud/angst, the issue itself wasn't that well painted, although it played out in the story in the ring... there was no real "animosity" just competitiveness... but in 1987, you believed Savage was so jealous of Steamboat, or so threatened that he did "try to kill him" and that Ricky was so driven and angry that the "good man" could be pushed beyond his limit... WWE has never portrayed that as well apart from the happy accident of Shawn v Jericho in 2008 with the inadvertant KO on Rebecca... they'd never have gone there intentionally, but once it had happened they embraced it and took it to those same places as Savage and Steamboat. Indeed if Ricky hadn't been a dick (reality is he blew it by asking for that time off and was a dick about it...) that rematch would have headlined Mania 4 for the World title.

I can see why younger people don't get it... it's not cos you weren't there, it's cos the product you've grown up with is nothing like that match... so you have very little to reference against, even in the Attitude Era, it's why NXT is so rated right now...it's the closest you'll ever see to that WWE in your life and the closest we older fans will ever see to it again.

 

[Vader]

Also consider this, in terms of in-ring performance. At the time, wrestling was largely smash style or very technical/rolling around in the mat in holds for lengthy times. I'd say Savage and Steamboat brought a bigger arsenal of moves to the ring than what was typically being displayed. Now if you brought the same match to the Ruthless Aggression era I wouldn't say it's all that special.

The work that Savage and Steamboat put in meeting up with each other rehearsing the match truly shined in the ring, coupled that with a good story line then you have something that pretty special given the era.

 

[closet_fan]

@RKOmachine.... The Savage-Steamboat is a classic match in Wrestlemania history due to the story going into the match. Steamboat wanted revenge for Savag's ring bell attack on Superstars TV taping for the IC Title. There was also the Saturday Nights Main Event before Mania where Steamboat made his return, surprising Savage. The match itself was great with the near falls. Today, near falls are done in every match.

Spot on. If you only watch the match at face value, it's a great match. But the build to it, while including George Steele, made it that much better. You don't see that many matches with several months worth of buildup anymore.

That and the fact that Savage was one of the most hated heels during that time, and a champion, made it that much more exciting of a finish.

 

[No Count Pup]

Older fans appreciate the little things.

We didn't need "Superstar vs. Superstar" every match. The star vs. local jobber format was what I grew up on. When we got to the main event I was fine with Koko B. Ware vs. the Warlord or Rick Martel vs. Bushwhacker Luke. It was a simpler time. So when we got something as shocking to the senses as Savage vs. Steamboat we were stoked. The match caught us off guard, and that is a rarity these days.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

It's nothing special because, y'know, we're 28 years on and wresting has changed a lot and we expect more. But it is, and always will be, a classic.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Also consider this, in terms of in-ring performance. At the time, wrestling was largely smash style or very technical/rolling around in the mat in holds for lengthy times. I'd say Savage and Steamboat brought a bigger arsenal of moves to the ring than what was typically being displayed. Now if you brought the same match to the Ruthless Aggression era I wouldn't say it's all that special.

The work that Savage and Steamboat put in meeting up with each other rehearsing the match truly shined in the ring, coupled that with a good story line then you have something that pretty special given the era.

Maybe WWE matches were "smash style" but on TBS matches like this were common place. Before their epic, excessively brutal "I Quit" Cage Match for the US Title Tully Blanchard & Magnum TA put on a wrestling clinic in a 50 minute classic where Tully first won the US Title. Flair vs Whyndam in 1987 was every bit as good if not better than Savage-Steamboat.

Now this match did have an excellent back & forth of offense for both men, played well on Savage's "maniac" character as well as both men's technical skill, and Steamboat was about as a classic wrestling hero as you could get, well built, good looking, family man, with a great sympathetic back story, this one of the first Mania undercard matches that really got main event style TV time leading into the event, which today is common place as Mania's often have at least two, sometimes as many as 3 or 4 matches that get that level of promotion and importance in the build to the event.

It stands as great athletic match, an exceptionally well paced match, it's a believably staged match, not the ridiculous spot fest type matches we see too often today where actually selling a move seems like a rarity and the whole match, while wildly athletic, seems so unrealistic and fake it cant possibly be enjoyed, and the pre event storyline was terrific. I would have to say that Savage's attack on Steamboat with the ringside bell was so dramatic, it's easily one of WWE's most memorable moments, right up there with Andre turning on Hogan and the bodyslam spot at Mania, as well as Warrior's title win and Savage & Liz's storyline reconciliation. In terms of brutal attacks in wrestling, it's one of the best, right up there with the very best of The Horsemen or the early NWO and way more violent and intense than anything the Disney-Lite WWE was doing at the time.

Is it a classic among big event matches for it's time - Yes - Is it a Mania Classic in retrospect, given the storyline, the match quality, and the participants involved yes - Was it Savage's best match, that is debatable, I think if you combine the storyline and build with the match quality and importance then his WM 8 match with Flair was better, and for sheer performance I think his Mania bout with Ultimate Warrior was his absolute best because Warrior was so horrible as an in ring performer, anything other than a simple 7 minute two part match (Warrior gets beat up, rallies, and either wins/match ends in DQ, mostly all brawling and power moves) is a virtual miracle and Savage pulled an four star match out of him (Anybody who thinks Flair was great because of the quality of matches he pulled out of Lex Luger, Luger was Brett Hart compared to Warrior).

Steamboat also had excellent matches with Flair (many consider those Steamboat's best), Rick Rude, Luger, & Austin so it's hard to say definitively that Mania 3 was his "best".

 

[FlairFan2003]

Also consider this, in terms of in-ring performance. At the time, wrestling was largely smash style or very technical/rolling around in the mat in holds for lengthy times. I'd say Savage and Steamboat brought a bigger arsenal of moves to the ring than what was typically being displayed. Now if you brought the same match to the Ruthless Aggression era I wouldn't say it's all that special.

The work that Savage and Steamboat put in meeting up with each other rehearsing the match truly shined in the ring, coupled that with a good story line then you have something that pretty special given the era.

A lot of people are critical of the excessive rehearsal Savage was known for, even inviting people to his house to practice matches weeks in advance, saying it ruined the spontaneity of the match itself and the wrestlers ability to work of the crowd and change pace based on their reactions.

 

[Vader]

You won't get any argument out of me. I think the NWA product was superior than the rocking 80s WWF. At the time the NWA matches had a good blend of heat, technical skill, with the excitement of high flyers and smashes. They were also doing some good hardcore spots.

 

[boozinjedi]

It also set the stage for future manias as well,A lot of the more memorable Mania matches over the years have centered around the IC belt.

 

[Headman]

I'll start off by saying that this is a Great match and definitely match of the night! But to be considered one of the best matches of all time?

I just dont see it! I know you will all give me tons of crap for my opinion on this which is not what I'm looking for, I wanna know why! Why is this considered to be such an iconic match? Its not very long (just about 15 minutes) ended with a roll up (which people bitch about when that happens today) I'll admit it had some great athleticism which you would expect from the wrestlers involved, also some great near falls.... BUT WHAT MAKES IT SO GREAT?!

I feel like there are other matches out there that were better but dont get the respect that this match gets. Matches like Michaels/Jericho Mania 19, Angle/Beniot Royal Rumble 2003, Michaels/Undertaker Mania 25 are matches that come to mind. Sure they are talked about plenty and most know how amazing the matches were but I feel like Savage/Steamboat is still wildly considered to be better! which I respectably disagree with. So what am I missing guys?

Please dont reply to this just to be a troll and say my opinion is wrong! I am asking for your opinion because I want to agree with all of you! Are you seeing something I'm not? Please enlighten me

I have to say as far as Wrestlemania matches go this one was one of my favorites. But It's like baseball players. You've gotta break it up into eras because there's no fair way to compare them considering what they did then and what they do today are so very different.

There was a lot of great stuff about that match but I think you have to watch it in context to fully appreciate it. One thing I liked was the fact that the false finishes actually fooled the crowd. Now days if a guy doesn't hit his finisher we know the match isn't going to end. That's why today guys hit their finisher's like 50 times before it actually works, because it's the only way to get the crowd to react. The fact that this match had all those false finishes and ended with a roll up completely caught the crowd off guard which is exciting. I think when people hear "greatest match of all time" and they automatically think "Well how long did it last?" they're focusing on the wrong thing. The match could have gone longer but it didn't need to. They told the story with perfect ring psychology and held the crowd in the palm of their hands. Today's fans get fed a lot of filler. The 1990's were a pro-wrestling arms race and they drove things so far out into the stratosphere that logic is sometimes abandoned and it becomes more about stretching the match out or getting certain spots in then telling the story you want to tell.

 

[Messiah]

It's simple, It was a classic when that match happened in the 80's. If that match occurred today, it would just be another match on the card. The business has changed and evolved so much in the last 30 year's... Who knows, maybe in 30 year's people will be saying the same thing about Punk and Cena at MITB.