What if TNA was RAW?

[Jack-Hammer]

Increased production value can always be a plus, but let's not try to kid ourselves overall. The lights, the music, the sound system and all that is part of the cosmetic aspect of wrestling. Sure, it's a nice addition but a bigger overall budget simply isn't going to get it done.

TNA has shelled out tons of money to bring in huge names in wrestling in the hopes that their presence will lead to an increased interest in the TNA product. It hasn't worked and that's not a slam against TNA, it's just simply how it is. They'll pull something off occassionally that will pop a rating for a week or two before those new viewers head back to something else.

If the personalities, wrestling content and storylines aren't there, then people simply aren't going to watch no matter how much pyro you set off or what arena you film your show from. People can bash the WWE all they like, it's all fine and good, but people don't watch Raw or SmackDown! becauce of the pyro and the bright lights. We can argue and debate all we want about which company has the better this or better that, which has an overall better roster, etc. but that's all subjective and a matter of opinion while the numbers aren't.

As far as the comments on Dixie Carter getting TNA out of the Impact Zone, I think it's another example of a lot of fans simply having no legit idea as to how things really are. It's true that TNA doesn't have as much money as the WWE, so why should Dixie Carter risk throwing away tons of cash in touring and filming iMPACT! from a different arena? I know that the IWC tends to think that wrestling is supposed to be something of a fantasy league where little real world issues like money don't apply but, trust me kiddies, they do. What if TNA did decide to start touring in the same way the WWE did and it turned out to be a huge flop? What if they went to Madison Square Garden and drew less than 2,000 fans for iMPACT!? What if they got similar results in every big venue they went to? It'd be a lot of money down the tubes for very little pay off.

TNA iMPACT! is an internationally televised broadcast that usually draws 1.4-1.5 million viewers in the United States on average. They're out there and people know about them. Every wrestling fan out there knows about TNA so that's an excuse that won't fly anymore. TNA hasn't been able to increase its audience because they're not able to keep people interested in what they're doing on a long term basis. It's not WWE's fault, nor is it the fault of fans that aren't interested in what they see and/or have no interest in seeing it on a long term basis. If TNA can't keep fans interested, that's on them and nobody else. TNA's budgetary concerns didn't keep them from going head to head against Raw. It was a gutsy move but it didn't pay off and TNA drew some of the worst numbers its had. The dwindling audience had nothing to do with TNA's pyro, lighting, sets or whatever not being up to par with WWE, they stopped watching because they didn't care about the product.

Call WWE lame or shit or boring or whatever. Same thing with TNA for that matter. But TNA's budget isn't why it's not competition for the WWE.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

...then it would be an awful television show. Oh, whoops — I'll go ahead and answer your thread now, and not just it's title.

The answer is simple: perception is reality. Few take TNA seriously because they work in an arena that's so small that you can hear Joey Sackodonuts up in the 12th row scream obscenities and irrelevant interjections at the wrestlers holding the microphone in the middle of the ring. Would/could they take them more serious if you couldn't hear the fat smark trying to be funny because he was buried among 19,999 other fans? Absolutely.

TNA does well for what it is, but it's not "competition" in the same vein as WCW was and it won't be until it begins to truly look like competition. Eventually WCW broke from Disney Studios as well, as I'm sure TNA will too, and if/when that day comes and they do start touring and booking their programs in arenas, they'll finally have taken their rightful seat as "competition".

 

[johnbragg]

They are under a contract with Universal Studios that prevents them from doing any weekly shows out of the Impact Zone besides PPVs

What's your source on this? I know they've done Impacts from Las Vegas before, and there has always been a lot of talk about doing Impact elsewhere. Why do you think TNA is committed to Universal Studios for anything but the check clearing every month?

 

[JJYanks121]

I'm just saying, TNA is the fastest growing company to come along in a long time. Maybe ever in pro wrestling.

This is maybe the biggest load of crap out there in wrestling fans minds today. Now, I'm going to be real and address it in a different manner though. Let's look at it in terms of a major promotion. We can't look at the territorial days because the business was stagnate and status quo for very long and wasn't willing to expand. In comes Vince McMahon and the WWWF becomes the WWF and is a powerhouse literally within 2 years. It was that quick. They got Hogan, they created Wrestlemania, they partnered with Rock n Roll, and the moneytrain was in the station. I'd say that was a quicker rise than TNA. Yes, they existed before, but let's continue on with your points.

A lot of people want it to become WWE-sized in a day. It can't and will not happen. It's been alive for 10 years. Same goes for Ring of Honor, yet they're still stuck in the same place.

Ring of Honor is an indy promotion without a major TV deal. They are the ECW of today if you will. Maybe they'll grow, but they probably won't as they are content with their niche. Heck, their niche is probably more profitable than TNA at this point because their budget is low and they do good numbers at their shows. That's not a knock on TNA at all as TNA is looking at making a larger profit in the future, but in the present, ROH probably makes more than TNA due to expenses being lower. We don't have numbers though, so it's a moot point. The point we can make is that Rome wasn't built in a day, but with the tools TNA has, it should have been built quicker. The "it's young" excuse doesn't hold water.

I'm sure WWWF wasn't broadcasted in over 100 countries in their 8th year.

Maybe not 100, but damn close. Remember, we can't look at it in terms of WWWF because that brand was a regional territory and things were different then. When Vince Jr. took over, within 2 years, Wrestlemania became a staple and that show alone was and is broadcasted in many countries around the world. So yes, it was. Vince's vision didn't take that long to come true, and if you figure 2 years before Wrestlemania, by the 8th year, Hulk Hogan was battling the Ultimate Warrior in one of the biggest Wrestlemania matches to date.

Same goes for AWA, NWA, WCW. It took WCW alone a lot more than 8 years to even compete with WWE.

Again, we can't use AWA and NWA because they were regional. Well, AWA was. The NWA was a conglomerate of loosely affiliated regional territories held together by a traveling champ. When they were bought and combined for good, they became WCW in 1989. You say that it took WCW more than 8 years to compete? They were dead 12 years later! So where were they in 8? In 1997, their second most profitable year and certainly the year they can claim the most success as it is the year that Nitro never lost to Raw in the ratings. You can also look at Starrcade 1997 as one of best selling Wrestling PPV's of all time. Thus, the argument that TNA's 8 year existence is a reason for lack of growth is a weak one. The truth is, if people are claiming that TNA has a better roster than WWE (debatable even if you compare just one WWE show to TNA's entire roster, but a topic for another time), then shouldn't said roster draw attention to the show?

Now, let's get to the topic at hand. Would TNA Impact be drawing Raw-like numbers if they went balls out (pun intended) with their set design, pyro, and presentation, coupled with the ability to tour and attract different fans around the country to each weekly show. It would certainly be a risk. The problem is, TNA threw money at talent instead. We will never know exact numbers, but we have to figure that Hogan, Bischoff, Flair, Anderson, RVD, Hardy, and the rest of the talent acquisitions of 2010 have upped the talent budget to extreme levels. This spending has resulted in equal TV ratings to a cheaper roster (probably). Again, we have no numbers and for all we know, Scott Steiner and Booker T were making just as much, if not more than Hogan and Bischoff. We assume that's not the case, but we don't know, so I won't use it. The point is, the whole thing is a Catch-22.

If we believe that statement about Bob Carter, then TNA will get the money to perhaps do a road show if they show growth. The problem is that growth can't happen in the Impact Zone because it's hard to draw viewers to it. Perhaps its the production value that drives people away, perhaps it's the lack of marketing (also something extra money would help with), perhaps it's poor performance on their shows, perhaps people don't like the storylines. It could be any of those things, but TNA hasn't grown in a few years now. TV Ratings have been in the 1.1 range for like 2 years, and Pay Per View buy numbers (though not usually released) are increasingly low. Perhaps if they had the money, real changes could be made and they could draw people to the product, but until we see that happen, we can't be sure. What we do know is that they haven't been afraid to spend on the roster and that hasn't improved ratings or PPV buys.

Contrary to what a lot of people believe, TNA is on the right track. Compared to WWE - it's in a pile of shit. Alone -- it's just fine and isn't going down, only up.

It's actually on a plateau. They went up for 5-6 years and have plateaued the last 2-3 in terms of ratings and PPV buys. That's not growth. I won't fault you for that, but it's just not. Maybe we'd see growth with the product traveling, but part of the draw for talent is the work schedule. Becoming more like WWE in terms of schedule might drive some top talent away. Again, it's a risk in a lot of ways. Quite honestly, if I were running TNA, I might cut some of my higher priced talent. Run the thing like the Florida Marlins or something. Cut your spending, find young talent that are really good at what they do, and make money off of it. It may piss people off in the beginning, but you'd have a more profitable company.

I know they want to be the Red Sox or Yankees though, so if you are going to do that, take the risk! Pay for some marketing! Bring interest to the product! Maybe try bringing it on the road! If it fails, then you'll know that the problem is not the Impact Zone, it's in the product itself.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

I know they want to be the Red Sox or Yankees though, so if you are going to do that, take the risk! Pay for some marketing! Bring interest to the product! Maybe try bringing it on the road! If it fails, then you'll know that the problem is not the Impact Zone, it's in the product itself.

How can TNA possibly bring interest to a product that get chastized for every single thing they do? It's either like WWE, or when it's different -- it's stupid. Would them going PG and having wrestling that's way below average and incredibly basic booking that creates no excitement whatsoever fix the product and create interest? It seems to be working for WWE. If WWE can pull 3.0's without a fascinating product, then how come TNA can't do it without a fascinating product.

Pay for some marketing - you honestly believe they're not doing that? You're aware that they don't have money to throw around, right? They're doing what their budget allows them to do. It's easy to list the ways to market a product, but it's a whole of a lot harder to do it with a limited budget.

Try bringing it on the road - Again, you don't think even for a SECOND that TNA hasn't realized that taking a show on the road is good? If they had the financial opportunity to do it -- they would do it. They can't just hop on the first bus and go. That costs money. I'm afraid they'll spend more than they'll earn from that. TNA just doesn't have enough money to do these things.

I've said this in other threads and I'll say it here. If TNA ever fails, it will be because of money. The fans will never just turn their TVs off. It won't fail from having 0.1 ratings. It will be money IF it happens. Money keeps that shitty WWE alive. Money runs the wrestling business. TNA doesn't have them -- it's not competition.

TNA just seems to be very bad at earning money and incredibly good at spending money. They have Hogan, Bischoff [who I'm sure didn't come to work for $5 a week] and the ratings are the same as last years. The only change we got is a four sided ring and some new faces. These same new faces take a bigger chunk off the finances, and the ratings are still the same, I can't speak for the PPV buys because TNA doesn't release that information.

Even though I like the current direction, I like the storylines, I like the people they brought in, I'm starting to question whether Hogan and Bischoff coming to TNA was good for business. It has its ups but they're outnumbered by the mehs. It has no downs, it just sits in one place and doesn't move.

IMO The only good addition to the roster was Mr.Anderson and maybe Eric Bischoff. I respect Hardy as a performer and I'm liking his work right now, but him along with EV2 and RVD could go away tomorrow and I wouldn't care, I'd feel bad if TNA lost Anderson and Bischoff.

What I wanna ask is this. And I'm asking people that have been around these forums before the Hogan/Bischoff Era because that's when I tagged along basically.

Has TNA gotten that much criticism from the fans before Bischoff and Hogan came, or has it always been like that?

 

[Marky-Marc]

Good point, I've been thinking about that myself. I know Kurt and Hardy came to TNA mainly because of the lighter traveling schedule. Kurt had an issue with the fact that Vince treated him as a piece of meat, and that is something TNA won't do. Hardy on the other hand I absolutely see jumping ship back to WWE. He's done it before and I believe he'll probably do it again unless either Matt joins TNA or TNA just becomes a lot bigger and doesn't have the backstage bullshit that WWE has.

Still, if TNA starts traveling, gets bigger and fills big arenas and has a lot of money, I'm sorry but WWE's days are numbered. Unlike WWE, TNA is very, very creative and what you're seeing these days is done with a tiny budget, imagine what they could do with a lot of money. These guys have the potential to knock the WWE off its feet, and the only thing stopping them are the money. WWE will have no choice but to lose the PG Rating, all the sponsors who tie their hands and all the other factors that chain the product and make it as rigid and stale as it is at the drop of a dime because I'm a firm believer that WWE cannot possibly compete with a financially strong, TV-14 TNA, led creatively by Russo and Bischoff who are not afraid to risk, experiment and come up with new things. WWE will have to change and adjust to TNA's style in order to keep it alive. You've got yourself another war and the wrestling fan will be happy.

My point about TNA all along on these forums is that -- yes, they do stupid crap, yes we don't agree with their decisions all the time, it's hard to please a million fans at a time, yes they have flaws, but the product is by NO means horrible, it is by no means bad, it is by no means unwatchable. if ANYTHING it's just a notch below WWE, and the only reason why is purely financial. Product wise -- they're as good or maybe better. Marketing Wise they're blown away by WWE. TNA without Money is just a glorified indy company which is good, but never considered competition, because it's a business, and a business without money is like a guitar without strings. TNA with money means WWE in big trouble. Twist it any way you want, it's how it is.

I've thought about this also. So many ex-WWE guys went to TNA because they were older and wanted the lighter schedule. So what happens if TNA traveled as much as WWE does? I feel like they'd be inclined to go back to WWE.

By no way would WWE's days be numbered. They'd still get higher ratings, more PPV buys, sell more merchandise and have all the stock holders they have. Though it probably would make them lose the pg and go back to a REAL Monday night wars, which they won the last time because they have the ability to be ridiculously creative, they just don't because their demographic is kids.

WWE has super stars. TNA doesn't. WWE is mainstream and TNA isn't. Nothing wrong with that, it's just the way it is. I'd love another war, competition would create great storylines and would probably mean great wrestling on Mondays and Thursdays (and Fridays for that matter). Though in my opinion, RAWhas better stories, stars, and wrestling. So TNA would have to step it up a little, but YES, moving out of the Impact Zone and into large arenas, especially for their PPVs, its the next logical step and I'm surprised they haven't done it yet.

 

[Wade's Public Transit Bomb]

I think the OP is forgetting that there's a major difference in business philosophy between the WWE and TNA.

People on the internet mock the PG rating, but they clearly failed a business class. The WWE targets to kids with their product. The product is relevantly easy to get into and most parents know that the WWE is fake, but 'harmless fun.' So, if little Bobby wants to go to the wrestling show, he needs an adult to take him. If the arena has 500 little Bobby, the WWE effectively sold double the tickets. At the fact that they are probably selling John Cena hats, shirts, and wristbands, which according to WWEshop.com is a whooping $54 for the kid sizes. That is a lot of f'n money even if it just a 1,000 people there.


TNA on the other hand, tries to do a 'mature' product. In TNA, you need blood, an injury, and about 5 swerves in one segment to tell a 'story.' The result is a needlessly complicated show that really makes no sense and is deemed 'stupid' by more people than not. It doesn't help that most adults that attend this shows will not be willing to spend $20 bucks on a t-shirt. (Just look at same of the names of the places they are going. These towns don't scream "economically stable" to me) They aren't making much money, but they are signing every "big name" that is desperate for money and/or attention.

Mr. Anderson's legitimate concussion not only cost him the TNA World Heavyweight title match against Jeff Hardy at the Turning Point PPV, but will end up costing him thousands of dollars in pay. A rough estimate puts his lost compensation at around $40,000 which includes his missed PPV pay, plus the house shows he is forced to miss. It is believed he is paid about $3,000 for each house show he works.

$40,000 for Ken Kennedy for a few days missed? Are you fucking kidding me?


You can brag about TV ratings all you want (in TV's case, its not saying much considering its pretty much been the same since the SpikeTV debut), but TNA will never be more than a regional promotion. Even though TNA has been on national TV for more than five years now.

TNA attendance figures courtesy of The Wrestling Observer Newsletter.

* 11/12 in Nashville, Tennessee (former TNA Asylum): sellout of 1,200 fans.

* 11/13 in Dalton, Georgia: 550 fans.

* 11/14 in Gainesville, Georgia: 1,000 fans.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

People on the internet mock the PG rating, but they clearly failed a business class. The WWE targets to kids with their product. The product is relevantly easy to get into and most parents know that the WWE is fake, but 'harmless fun.' So, if little Bobby wants to go to the wrestling show, he needs an adult to take him. If the arena has 500 little Bobby, the WWE effectively sold double the tickets. At the fact that they are probably selling John Cena hats, shirts, and wristbands, which according to WWEshop.com is a whooping $54 for the kid sizes. That is a lot of f'n money even if it just a 1,000 people there..

And you do realize that WWE would draw equally big and even bigger crowds at their events back when their product was mature, right?

I'm not saying that the PG Rating is a bad business decision. Hell no, it's pretty darn good. Granted, the PPV buys are down from last year but they might be up next, you never know, it's not a sign of illness. But then is it a good decision entertainment wise? Personally, I don't like the WWE. A lot of other people do, but a handful of them enjoy the PG Era more than the Attitude Era. Fact is, The Attitude Era was a helluva lot more entertaining, the wrestling was better, every single thing about it blows the current state of the WWE away like it was nothing. I'm inclined to believe they made more money too because of the simple fact that wrestling was "cool" and WWF with its Stone Colds and Rocks had a lot to do with it. The merchandise sales were off the hook. Everything was off the hook. I don't really see why Vince is evading the one thing he can do right and that's run a WRESTLING promotion, not "sports entertainment". How much money do you need you greedy fucking bastard? Don't you think it's time you loosened the death grip on your wallet and went about trying new things and experimenting and introducing an entirely new and fresh product instead of this stale pile of crap you stuff down people's throats every week? Kids will like anything. A kid laughs at a poop joke. The PG Era and the whole "sports entertainment" schtick is a poor excuse for not pushing your wrestlers to the limit in their matches, allowing them to create themselves rather than a team of writers scripting every single movement and word they say, and not pushing the boundaries and revitalizing the business like you should. They are the number one company in the world. THEY should be calling the shots. THEY should be trying new things. Instead we get fuckin' Old School RAWs, reverting to something they did 20 years ago, Pee Wee fuckin' Herman, Bob Barker, midgets beating grown men, dance offs and all sorts of stupid BULLSHIT that has nothing to do with pro wrestling or a current storyline. It disgusts me. There's a big ass reason why all the real wrestling fans went running to UFC. It's not that it's that cool, it's just that Vince fucked this business up beyond belief and the fans were in dire need for something "cool" to like. UFC just happened to be it. I'm not a big fan of it. To me it's just a bunch of idiots with crappy tattoos, circling around an octagon. You watch 3 rounds of 5 minutes and all you get is like three seconds of excitement because during the other 13 minutes they just look at eachother. And that goes on for a couple of hours.

 

[Jay_Dee_Untamed]

Keep in mind several things with TNA. For a company that has been around for only 8 years, they've made strides.

They don't have a lot of mainstream talent (outside of Hogan, Flair, RVD, Angle, and Jeff Hardy) but that's because they are building talent. Instead of going for one-time home run guys like they used to, they're getting quality talent and using Hulk and Flair to help build them up.

They have a huge potential star in Mr. Anderson. His "Asshole" gimmick has spawned a whole new calling for him, and with this recent concussion angle, more and more people are getting on the Anderson bandwagon. They know what they have in this guy and they are going to use him to his full potential.

Pope is the same way. Uber charisma, can connect with a crowd easily, and all the talent in the world (yeah, WWE is missing him).

Look at the way Flair has helped put over guys like Matt Morgan and all of Fortune. Yes, these guys are all talented in their own ways, but adding Flair has definitely given all of them a bit more personality. You can see it rubbing off on guys like Beer Money, Kaz and AJ Styles.

And even though I'm not the biggest fan of Hogan, he's been nothing but a Godsend for Abyss. When you looked at Abyss before, he was more of a big dumb animal that didn't know how to really put himself over. It was all "I'm a monster, but I'm afraid to be." With Hogan backing him, you see a different fire in Abyss. He's more mean, more sadistic, and his promos are a lot better after working with Hogan.

Plus getting Indy guys with a following such as Samoa Joe, Nigel McGuinness (although we have yet to see the total fruits of that labor), Jay Lethal, Robbie E, and various others, it leaves room for a lot of potential.

With that said, TNA has also been taking a WWE style approach to attaining talent. Who has TNA gone after? More younger WWE guys that were pretty much shafted in Stamford (atleast more so now), or guys with talent that are hungry for a break. In the earlier years when it was WCW and WWE, WCW went after all the older talent and yes it worked for a while, but it ended up being their demise. I respect TNA's approach this time as they are thinking about the future and not the present.

Another one of their downfalls is the fact that they won't leave the Impact Zone except for certain Pay-Per-Views or special events, but didn't RAW do that for a while too? The Impact Zone is TNA's Grand Ballroom in Manhattan. They're pretty much starting the same way WWE did, but it's taking longer because of their budget and economical problems (yes, that is a factor as well as even WWE has been hit by it).

The programming is cool if you miss the old Attitude days, but there are only so many of those fans left. Once WWE bought WCW, pretty much all wrestling fans knew the war was over. Some stayed loyal to WWE, others stopped watching completely. TNA is trying to tap into that market and honestly, I believe that if you do think the old school way and suspend belief, TNA's product is pretty on par.

Of course the ratings are going to be low starting out because one, most of the attitude fans are older and don't watch, and two, the IWC is constantly criticizing without looking fully into what's going on. Is it hard to follow sometimes? Yes, but that's how booking was back then. Always keeping the mark guessing. Plus with Spike Tv now attempting to pump more money into the product, things are only looking up.

So TNA has the potential to be WWE's competition if you give them time and feel them out. I don't think budget is the issue or even venue, it's opportunity. Between guys like Mark Madden (which why this guy is even talking about the state of wrestling is beyond me. He was a third rate commentator for a failing WCW. Why does his opinion even matter?) always giving them shit, and the IWC constantly nit-picking, they won't get the opportunity to become WWE's competition.

 

[Marky-Marc]

Zeven_Zion: I normally never agree with you but most of what you're saying in this thread is correct. Though some things you are getting wrong.

You think that if TNA ever folds it will be becasue of money and nothing else. Wrong. People turning off the TV will lead to them losing money. When you don't get ratings, you won't get sponsorship dollars. People won't want to run adds during your show's commercials which will lead to SpikeTV commercials and there's no money in that.

TNA has great talent but they're booking isn't very good and as much as TNA marks want to say they put on better matches they really don't. Impact matches are usually 3 mins long with a screwy finish, PPV matches are usually good though.

TNA needs to start charging people to get into the Impact Zone ( idk if they don't at all or what actually happens but I know a majority is free). Than, they need to move out of the Impact zone. They won't be able to travel as much as WWE does but they have to get out of Orlando and explore the South more and they certainly need to move for their PPVs. People aren't going to watch them when it just looks like another episode of Impact. Once they move, they can fill bigger arenas, which would make them look like Raw more, than they can have better production value (to me, their backstage promos look terrible like they're being spied on by the paparazzi). Than once they start to look main stream, they'll be treated as main stream.

Look at WCW, obviously they don't have Billionaire-Ted backing them but WCW used to look terrible on TV than they started moving around and looked much better, this is what TNA needs to start doing to be taken more seriously.

 

[Jay_Dee_Untamed]

Marky-Marc: They travel but more for house shows. TNA's thinking small to get to a bigger picture and I can't harp on them for that.

The problem with WCW was they wanted too much too soon. TNA's not thinking that way. They know they have an uphill climb and they're taking baby steps to get to the top. Like I stated before, they've lasted 8 years and nobody gave them that long.

The obvious solution would be to tour, but think of how much money that would cost them if they did. Set movements, packing cameras, getting talent situated, it would be a money sinkhole right now. On top of that, the main reason why people are coming to TNA is because of the schedule. If they started touring now, especially with their figures the way they are, they'd lose more money than gain and the majority of their stars would jump ship as they could do the same thing in WWE for way more money. Let TNA do them and work their plan. It's not a success yet, but they're making strides.

Also, I have to disagree with your backstage promos comment. I kinda like the way they are doing it. It looks less scripted and more "we weren't supposed to know that" than having a worker look into a camera, have some person shove a mic in their face, and have the worker feign that emotion. They're adding to the mystique of shoot-style and the camera angles add to it.

And maybe they don't want to be looked at as mainstream right now. Maybe they're working more towards being a counterculture to WWE's PG product first. Show the world that they are different from what's popular but still find a way to make it work.

 

[MVP12]

Good point, I've been thinking about that myself. I know Kurt and Hardy came to TNA mainly because of the lighter traveling schedule. Kurt had an issue with the fact that Vince treated him as a piece of meat, and that is something TNA won't do. Hardy on the other hand I absolutely see jumping ship back to WWE. He's done it before and I believe he'll probably do it again unless either Matt joins TNA or TNA just becomes a lot bigger and doesn't have the backstage bullshit that WWE has.

Still, if TNA starts traveling, gets bigger and fills big arenas and has a lot of money, I'm sorry but WWE's days are numbered. Unlike WWE, TNA is very, very creative and what you're seeing these days is done with a tiny budget, imagine what they could do with a lot of money. These guys have the potential to knock the WWE off its feet, and the only thing stopping them are the money. WWE will have no choice but to lose the PG Rating, all the sponsors who tie their hands and all the other factors that chain the product and make it as rigid and stale as it is at the drop of a dime because I'm a firm believer that WWE cannot possibly compete with a financially strong, TV-14 TNA, led creatively by Russo and Bischoff who are not afraid to risk, experiment and come up with new things. WWE will have to change and adjust to TNA's style in order to keep it alive. You've got yourself another war and the wrestling fan will be happy.

My point about TNA all along on these forums is that -- yes, they do stupid crap, yes we don't agree with their decisions all the time, it's hard to please a million fans at a time, yes they have flaws, but the product is by NO means horrible, it is by no means bad, it is by no means unwatchable. if ANYTHING it's just a notch below WWE, and the only reason why is purely financial. Product wise -- they're as good or maybe better. Marketing Wise they're blown away by WWE. TNA without Money is just a glorified indy company which is good, but never considered competition, because it's a business, and a business without money is like a guitar without strings. TNA with money means WWE in big trouble. Twist it any way you want, it's how it is.

how is TNA creative? EV2? creative? Fortune a rip off of the four horsemen, imortal is a rip off of NWO wolf pack ( i only say that cause they seem to be growing and they already have like 10 guys in it including fourtune) All the guys from WWE in TNA have the exact same gimmicks that they had in the WWE. Smackdown is beating Impact in the ratings and thats the B show...so i mean i dont see them even with more money to really do anything big..they are a cheap version of WCW plain and simple

 

[Eyebrows]

As for the "Fans" being all into TNA on TV~well remember they have been caught PLANTING people in the audience to rile things up or throw stuff at the ring. I dont really recall WWE/WCW or ECW ever having to plant people in the audience to get people going.

Just remember all those Fans there are there for a free show question is if there was a charge for the show at the IZ would they pay for it? Im still not sure about that one considering they drew like 600 people their last trip out of the IZ.

I wasn't talking about how it comes across on TV, I was talking about the experience from a live perspective. Outside in the 'tourist' queues, you got the sense that most people were fans in TNA. Hell, I know I wouldn't have bothered going to see it if I wasn't a wrestling fans. I bet there's other Brits that would love to see TNA whilst on holiday if they had the chance. And this was before the rubbish-throwing plants in December of last year.

I get your point though, I don't think they'd fill up as much if there was an admission price. And even though I defended it in the past I've been more conscious of the Impact crowd the past couple of weeks and noticing now how they'll cheer and boo at the "wrong" time. If I hadn't read these forums I wouldn't have noticed!

Do they need to charge at the Impact Zone, though? Other TV shows do perfectly well gaining income through TV deals, advertising (I'm not an expert on this, so correct me if I'm wrong) and I've read somewhere, don't know how true it was, that Universal Studios kicks back money to TNA for holding the shows there.

Personally, I think anyone who braves the Orlando public transport system deserves a free show (j/k).

 

[Derrtown]

TNA iMPACT is better than WWE Raw and has been for a couple of years now, imo. Ive been saying this for the last year, If the crowd at the iMPACT zone didnt suck so much than TNA would look so much better as a whole.

Honestly If I was TNA, and it may sound like something stupid to most of you or just flat out wrong, I would pump some crowd noise into certain segments and match moments. Back when wrestling was at its peak the crowd reactions are what made some of the greatest moments of that era, great.

Theres too many times where theres something of significance happening and the crowd just sits there and watches because most of them dont know what the fuck is going on or arent familiar with TNA. The product is lacking because of the shit crowds in the iMPACT zone. They need to leave that place in a hurry.

 

[Marky-Marc]

Marky-Marc: They travel but more for house shows. TNA's thinking small to get to a bigger picture and I can't harp on them for that.

The problem with WCW was they wanted too much too soon. TNA's not thinking that way. They know they have an uphill climb and they're taking baby steps to get to the top. Like I stated before, they've lasted 8 years and nobody gave them that long.

The obvious solution would be to tour, but think of how much money that would cost them if they did. Set movements, packing cameras, getting talent situated, it would be a money sinkhole right now. On top of that, the main reason why people are coming to TNA is because of the schedule. If they started touring now, especially with their figures the way they are, they'd lose more money than gain and the majority of their stars would jump ship as they could do the same thing in WWE for way more money. Let TNA do them and work their plan. It's not a success yet, but they're making strides.

Also, I have to disagree with your backstage promos comment. I kinda like the way they are doing it. It looks less scripted and more "we weren't supposed to know that" than having a worker look into a camera, have some person shove a mic in their face, and have the worker feign that emotion. They're adding to the mystique of shoot-style and the camera angles add to it.

And maybe they don't want to be looked at as mainstream right now. Maybe they're working more towards being a counterculture to WWE's PG product first. Show the world that they are different from what's popular but still find a way to make it work.

I totally get everything you're saying. I know they travel to various stats for house shows I meant more along the lines of Impact and their PPVs.

And yeah maybe they don't want to be main stream, and that's fine. The fact is though that they are trying to compete with WWE and if they want to do that they need to go main stream. I do think they want to do this (as Monday Night Wars II would show with the commericals and billboard in Times Square indicates, also the Hogan Press Conference). The ratings haven't shifted much at all since the additions of Hogan and Bischoff. I don't agree when people say that Eric has no talent and just got lucky with the NWO. That was not luck. The problem is that he is trying to create some of that magic but the stars that made the NWO (Hall/Nash/Hogan) were already house hold names thanks to the WWE. TNA doesn't have that in Immortal. Hardy yes but a lot of people don't care about Hardy anymore, maybe his new heel gimmick will change that but I don't think so.

TNA needs to try to be more like Raw, ot with the stories or gimmicks or whatever but with the style. It needs to look more professional because our eyes are the best judges that we have and if we don't like what we see, we're going to stop watching. TNA needs to put more money into production, editing (I always think the way they show replays during matches look terrible) and also camera work (I hate how the wrestler looks into the camera during a serious promo). It just has to look better and it will enhance the talent that is already there.

 

[WolfNyte]

I wasn't talking about how it comes across on TV, I was talking about the experience from a live perspective. Outside in the 'tourist' queues, you got the sense that most people were fans in TNA. Hell, I know I wouldn't have bothered going to see it if I wasn't a wrestling fans. I bet there's other Brits that would love to see TNA whilst on holiday if they had the chance. And this was before the rubbish-throwing plants in December of last year.

I get your point though, I don't think they'd fill up as much if there was an admission price. And even though I defended it in the past I've been more conscious of the Impact crowd the past couple of weeks and noticing now how they'll cheer and boo at the "wrong" time. If I hadn't read these forums I wouldn't have noticed!

Do they need to charge at the Impact Zone, though? Other TV shows do perfectly well gaining income through TV deals, advertising (I'm not an expert on this, so correct me if I'm wrong) and I've read somewhere, don't know how true it was, that Universal Studios kicks back money to TNA for holding the shows there.

Personally, I think anyone who braves the Orlando public transport system deserves a free show (j/k).

The Funny thing is back in WCW they also filmed at the same place with Unversal Studios. Don,t know if many remember that the IZ is the same place WCW used to tape their free shows near the end.

The saddest thing is I had a friend who went to the show at the IZ and he told me it holds maybe 250 people tops. its much smaller in real life and well they had people trying to coach the fans on who to cheer and boo and when to cheer. He was a huge TNA fan and said he wanted to cry. He went to the recent event here in CT and was even more disheartened by how many showed up for a paid show up here.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

The Funny thing is back in WCW they also filmed at the same place with Unversal Studios. Don,t know if many remember that the IZ is the same place WCW used to tape their free shows near the end.

The saddest thing is I had a friend who went to the show at the IZ and he told me it holds maybe 250 people tops. its much smaller in real life and well they had people trying to coach the fans on who to cheer and boo and when to cheer. He was a huge TNA fan and said he wanted to cry. He went to the recent event here in CT and was even more disheartened by how many showed up for a paid show up here.

The capacity of the Impact Zone (Soundstage 21) is 1350. I've no idea how many people it held that night but the shows seem to hold more than 250 people.