What happened to the art of the suplex?

[kobrad]

I was watching some old school wrestling today (if you can call benoit and guerrero old school) and i was thinking to my self what happened to the art of the suplex?

TNA has angle and Samoa Joe so they are set with suplexes but what about WWE? There is not one superstar who consistently does a good german suplex to gain the upper hand or to beat down there opponent

This was just on my mind. What do you all think about this?

 

[wrestler36]

I'm wondering if it went the same route as the piledriver, being banned unless on a special occasion. Typically, the person being German-ed lands more on their shoulders and the back of their neck. Jericho turned his Walls into a regular crab so as not to injure necks. This is purely speculation, but I'm thinking it's an injury precaution to not do the move.

 

[kobrad]

i would probably have to agree with you, but i think most wrestlers in the business today would be willing to do these types of moves still!

I think that we need to see wrestling again just this once and have a suplex only match, hahahaha i mean WWE has created these dumb types of matches before so why not throw this one in the pot and see how it goes. It would be really weird to see to be honest

 

[Big Ol' Buckta AIDS]

watch ECW. Shelton B. does it at least twice a match. As for the other wrestlers, maybe its just not in their arsenals. To do it you have to be very flexable and have VERY good back muscles. It is a true wrestling (as in mat) move, and is very hard to do.

 

[Freddy4190]

It's not an easy move to do properly. Alot of the wrestlers just don't have it in their repertoire. I can see Swagger doing it, maybe. Shelton still hits suplexes alot. I don't know to be honest. I'd love to see a lot more technical wrestling then what they're offering right now. Wouldn't everyone? It's a lost art, it definitely needs to make a comeback.

 

[macksstream]

yes i get what you're saying. they need more technical wrestling. there's a few guys that could do it but they're not at the moment. its sad because its really interesting watching benoit and eddie and kurt angle back in wwe. i mean its not that long ago but they were the good old days.

 

[Fizzy2k10]

Dudes i may get heat for this but john cena is a name that comes to mind when you talk about suplexes. In a long match he can hit 2 - 3 suplexes right ??? i.e. belly 2 belly, or fisherman suplex also the back body slam he does before the 5 knuckle shuffle can be taken as a suplex also ... dunno though what u guys think ? + the fireman's carry drop i.e. his attitude adjustment could be referred to as a side suplex or something like that ..

 

[Utimate-seX]

remember benoit? or guerrero?

take a flashback to 5 years ago wrestlemania XX. similtaneous suplex kings both winning the top titles of their brands respectively. benoit of course the man for the german suplex in WWE won the WHC and guerrero the man of the overhead suplex won the WWE championship. that was when suplexes were still their. but due to the passing of both of these excellent wrestlers, wrestlers who can perform a suplex are limited. now im just going to throw this into the open for anyone to critisice but kurt angle performs german suplexes stupendously, he does them perfectly, and i dont think anyone (not even the late great benoit) could perform them like angle, and perform as much as angle. i was watching iMPACT a few weeks ago and saw angle perform like 8 suplexes or something after each other, not many wrestlers can do that. So to answer your question, the art of suplex is still available but limited.
R.I.P Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerrero you have been, you still are and always will be missed by many and loved by many more

 

[Wainy]

Sadly, it seems to me that most WWE stars these days, with their limited wrestling experience, just don't have suplexes in their arsenals because quite simply, they are unaware of the sheer variety of them available. I sincerely believe that most superstars these days, never saw the likes of Taz, the Steiners, Benoit, Kobashi, Misawa, Malenko etc in their prime, the true masters of the suplex, as they were too busy watching the watered down mess that WWE has become over the years, failing as sportsmen in other disciplines or just plain old being kicked out of the Armed Forces. I only hope that Danielson might bring some more of what is truly becomming a forgotten art, back into the WWE. People like Angle, McGuinness & Doug Williams are flying the flag in TNA

 

[The Son of Maximillion]

that's just it wwe limits there wrestlers move list if you have watched matt sydal aka evan bourne in wsx and other promotions same with punk. the guy has way more moves this also applies to cena we all know he has more moves than just a leg drop, fist drop, and firemans carry slam i shutter to think how they will water down danielson the fact is when you sign a wwe contract you sign your career away that's why so many people are leaving wwe and are headed either to tna, roh or other just retiring all together

 

[D-Man]

I really like the subject of this thread. It's very simple, yet through-provoking and everyone can offer an opinion on it.

I believe the "art of the suplex" has diminished over the years because in today's pro-wrestling world, matches are moving further and futher away from basics and more towards innovation.

Back in the day, being labeled as a "suplex machine" was a big deal because the audience was impressed by in-ring technicality. This was all prior to the influx of the "Entertainment" side of the business taking a front seat. Former pro-wrestlers that have been labeled as "suplex machines" are the likes of the Iron Shiek, Taz, Benoit, Kurt Angle, and Eddie Guererro. Angle is the only active wrestler out of that group and he continues to stay true to his style as being one of the greatest in-ring technicians of all time. His arsenal of suplexes and groundwork has become somewhat of a rarity in pro-wrestling, but he is doing a tremendous job of showing everyone that you don't need a fully-innovated moveset in order to be relevant.

So, like I said, today's market calls for newer and more innovative movesets. Wrestlers are creating new finishers. Old finishers have become everyday moves. Everyday moves are becoming different and more high-impact. High-flying is taking precidence over groundwork.

Professional wrestling has become a different business, all together. It just seems that the "art of the suplex" has been lost in the shuffle.

 

[BigAdz]

Back in the day, being labeled as a "suplex machine" was a big deal because the audience was impressed by in-ring technicality. This was all prior to the influx of the "Entertainment" side of the business taking a front seat. Former pro-wrestlers that have been labeled as "suplex machines" are the likes of the Iron Shiek, Taz, Benoit, Kurt Angle, and Eddie Guererro. Angle is the only active wrestler out of that group and he continues to stay true to his style as being one of the greatest in-ring technicians of all time. His arsenal of suplexes and groundwork has become somewhat of a rarity in pro-wrestling, but he is doing a tremendous job of showing everyone that you don't need a fully-innovated moveset in order to be relevant.

So, like I said, today's market calls for newer and more innovative movesets. Wrestlers are creating new finishers. Old finishers have become everyday moves. Everyday moves are becoming different and more high-impact. High-flying is taking precidence over groundwork.

Professional wrestling has become a different business, all together. It just seems that the "art of the suplex" has been lost in the shuffle.

I echo this.

Look at it on the flip side though. Whenever someone comes along and can "pop the hips" as well as any of the greats, it makes their matches that much more exciting. Really, who doesn't like the sight of a man grabbing another man around the waist and heaving him with all his might and manly stren......ok, that got wrong too fast.

But the point's there; suplexes are great to watch and add that little bit of credibility to the match. It is a shame that they're not as common place these days but at least it makes whoever comes along and uses them stand out amid the shuffle.

 

[Thriller Ant]

Good topic. I personally love a good German suplex, and after watching a ROH DVD, am totally satisfied right now. There really is no reason for the lack of suplexes, especially in WWE. Vince prides himself on giant muscleheads, and I'm sure that all of the main eventers could successfully use a number of suplex variations on their counterparts. D-Man has a point about innovation, but really,I think that a perfect German looks just as pretty as Starship Pain or an RKO. With Bryan Danielson coming to WWE, I have hope for the future, but it is a very simple part of wrestling being forgotten.

 

[The Hiphopapotamus]

Well if you want to look at it from a WWE standpoint, it's because of their focuses. As someone pointed out, being called a suplex machine was good because the crowd were impressed by your in ring technical ability. The reason you don't hear it, or see it, nowadays is because the WWE no longer focuses on that. They focus on the entertainment aspect, and suplexes just aren't held in such high regard. If you think of Chris Benoit, he was renowned for his technical ability, but his mic work wasn't up to scratch. And by the end of his career, he was languishing in the mid card and on ECW.

You could also say that suplexes are simply too dangerous for WWE's liking, and you would be right. I'm not talking about vertical suplexes. I'm talking belly to belly and germans and the like, where head drops are common. And Vince just doesn't seem to want to risk his wrestler's safety on a regular basis.

But in general, the art of the suplex lives on. Especially in TNA where wrestlers like Kurt Angle, Samoa Joe, Desmond Wolfe and even Hernandez hold the mantle of suplex experts. Also, you cannot forget about ring of Honor.

It thrives in the land of puroresu, where suplexes are as common as clotheslines. In Japan, wrestling is shown as very like a sport, and they aim to do their best to hurt their opponents. I'm not talkning murder, but using hard kicks and lariats, and strong suplexes where you often get head drops. The brain buster, their equivalent of a vertical suplex, is seen as dangerous, and something you never see in WWE.

So as for the art of the suplex disappearing, yes, in the WWE. However, it lives on in different parts of the wrestling world, and is still going strong.

 

[rjdonuts]

Interestingly enough, I feel in the last 3 weeks of WWE television, I have seen a ton of standing vertical suplexes where one guys holds the other in the air for a while. DH Smith does one, and I saw HHH do one, and also Kane. I felt, like many of you all, that the suplex had run its course in WWE, but then I saw Raw and SD the past two weeks and saw like 5 standing verticals.

This points to a bigger problem in my mind, however, and it is the fact that matches are becoming more and more scripted and spot-heavy. It seems like longer matches (15-20 minutes) used to have 5-6 big spots. The rest of the time was filled with the wrestlers improvising and communicating in-ring. That still happens, but it seems to a lesser extent. You often see 5-6 spots in a 6-minute match. In general matches seem more planned out, and less improvised, and generally speaking, suplexes are great improvisational moves and are typically not part of big spots (save the angles, benoit, and eddies who would hit a series).

Anyway, it seems the only improvisation these days is in the form of punches... and its pretty lame, especially since most wrestlers throw crappy punches.

 

[sukhbirsl]

I think you may have forgotten about David Hart Smith. He inherited the art of the suplex from his father and Mentor, Davey Boy Smith. Okay, yeah, 1 person using suplexes is not much to be proud of, but its something to acknoledge.

Plus I've seen Triple H use suplexes in the past weeks.

 

[Thriller Ant]

Interestingly enough, I feel in the last 3 weeks of WWE television, I have seen a ton of standing vertical suplexes where one guys holds the other in the air for a while. DH Smith does one, and I saw HHH do one, and also Kane. I felt, like many of you all, that the suplex had run its course in WWE, but then I saw Raw and SD the past two weeks and saw like 5 standing verticals.

I think you may have forgotten about David Hart Smith. He inherited the art of the suplex from his father and Mentor, Davey Boy Smith. Okay, yeah, 1 person using suplexes is not much to be proud of, but its something to acknoledge.

Plus I've seen Triple H use suplexes in the past weeks.

If you guys go back and read the opening post, you'll see he wasn't talking about your everyday vertical suplex. He mentions guys like Angle that uses multiple suplex variations in their arsenal. In the WWE, the only variations I can think of that are used with any regularity are Cena's fisherman's and MVP's terrible belly to belly.

Suplexes are an old school series of moves that seem to have left in the past by today's WWE. What needs to be recognized is that even though they are old and simple, suplex variations look incredible when done properly and often can be used to ignite a crowd. The WWE has big, strong guys. Let's see them throw each other around with some suplexes.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I was watching some old school wrestling today (if you can call benoit and guerrero old school) and i was thinking to my self what happened to the art of the suplex?

TNA has angle and Samoa Joe so they are set with suplexes but what about WWE? There is not one superstar who consistently does a good german suplex to gain the upper hand or to beat down there opponent

This was just on my mind. What do you all think about this?

You can't be serious. The art of the suplex? What the hell is that supposed to mean exactly? You're actually complaining that there aren't enough suplexes being done in the WWE? I thought I'd heard all the useless pissing and moaning regarding the WWE in the past but this is a brand new one. I can understand the complaints about there being virtually no managers left in either the WWE or TNA, the lack of heel commentators, the concerns of the creative direction for both companies. But the WWE's suplex quota being down? This is a truly ridiculous topic.

 

[Macca]

I will say that Regal pulls out some cool suplexes when he gets the chance (probably one of the best exploders in the business today) but other then that, I have to agree, they have been declining.

A big problem I have with the product today is that they feel that all the performers have to wrestle a WWE specific style, and while it's great that high-flyers are getting their day in the sun, the downside is that the more technical styles are being overlooked for the more flashy Lucha libre style. Doesn't help that this generation has ADD and can't live without a tope atomico in a match.

Imagine how Nigel McGuinness would have to change his European style to suit the company if he signed on the dotted line? The 14-year olds who watch are trained to believe that the John Cena's and the Jeff Hardy's are the right way to wrestle and these same lot would see Nigel's style and tag it as slow and boring.

That right there is the problem. And that why moves like suplexes and submissions (which in case you didn't notice, are also on the decline) are being misplaced for cross bodies and dropkicks.

That's one thing you have to give TNA props for. Their roster is as diverse as one can probably get. WWE should take notice.

 

[Razor]

I think most of the wrestlers simply, *gasp*, don't want to use suplexes. Crazy, I know. A wrestler not using a suplex?!?!? Next you'll be telling me some don't want to do leg drops! Oh, wait.

If we're talking about wrestlers who should use suplexes, then I think Swagger and Cena would be perfect examples of wrestlers who could use them. In fact, I may be wrong, but hasn't Swagger used a belly to belly suplex in a few matches? I seem to remember it in a few matches with Cena, at least.

I seem to remember for a fact that Mark Henry uses them every now and again. If he isn't, then why the fuck not? It seems a like a move every big man could make look crazy strong.

However, all this talk is superfluous if the wrestlers don't actually want to do the move. Or if WWE doesn't want them to, which is silly. You have to be downright ******ed to fuck up a suplex, unlike a Piledriver that is downright dangerous.

 

[maar130]

Dudes i may get heat for this but john cena is a name that comes to mind when you talk about suplexes. In a long match he can hit 2 - 3 suplexes right ??? i.e. belly 2 belly, or fisherman suplex also the back body slam he does before the 5 knuckle shuffle can be taken as a suplex also ... dunno though what u guys think ? + the fireman's carry drop i.e. his attitude adjustment could be referred to as a side suplex or something like that ..

No heat man but you are right, If we talk about suplexes in general, he uses 3 diferent kind of suplexes.

The fisherman suplex, the side Belly to Belly and the Protoplex (his fisher when he was Prototype) that is a spinning back body drop suplex.

Thing is that as I see it, the WWE concept of the german suplex for instance is for a more technical kind of wrestler like Shelton. CM punk uses one or two every now and then but he mostly uses kicks and all because of the straightedge persona, but he dielivered Jeff Hardy a great German suplex on a PPV.

 

["Cool Guy" Jensen]

Well, I'm not sure if I should talk about suplexes as a whole or just solely the German suplex in particular. I'll see what I can do...

A suplex is one of the basic and primary moves in wrestling. It is one of the first moves that you are required to learn when training to become a wrestler. I am pointing this out because I agree... suplexes should be used more often in the WWE. The death of Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit also killed a big part of the suplex in the company. However, I really do not see why.

Two superstars that I think could really succeed by adding a few suplexes to their arsenal are Jack Swagger and Sheamus. With Jack Swagger having an amatuer wrestling background, he should know some new, cool-looking suplexes that can make him look more dangerous in the ring. Sheamus, no matter how dangerous WWE is making him seem, could really use some type of suplex to add more danger to his character. I still do not look at the "Razor's Edge" as a legit finisher.

In conclusion, while suplexes are not exactly non-existent in the WWE, it would not hurt for other and more superstars to add a type of suplex or two to their arsenal. It will just add more to the move itself.