Ok so, so far during this tournament I've mostly voted on who is the "bigger star" and would logically be booked to go over in this tournament. Let's address that first.
Yes, Jeff Hardy reached a higher peak than Owen Hart. He got more over (probably, Owen was a great heel during late 1994 but faltered) and won the big one. We can't begin to guess whether Owen would of won it, so we won't. It's irrelevant. It didn't happen, Hardy went higher on the card, drew more and had a bigger career.
And that's the criteria for voting in the tournament, is it not? You look at what the star did
in his prime, and vote accordingly. Hardy hit his prime in 2007, beating Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, HHH, and Edge during this time. In late 2008, Armageddon in fact, he won his first World Title, and in a time oversaturated with rapid-fire title changes, won two more World Titles before leaving WWE just 8 months later. Beating HHH, Edge, and CM Punk for the World Title isn't bad.
Usually thats enough for me, but this match is interesting - because I strongly feel this is exactly the type of match Owen Hart would win. Vs a super popular babyface that he can be a huge douche against. Let's look at this in more detail within kayfabe.
Except for an in-his-prime Hardy generally didn't lose matches against those "huge douches." The best example is CM Punk, who Hardy beat clean in a one-on-one match. It's funny, people point to Hardy as a crash test dummy and a master of the gimmick match, but he beat HHH and Edge in a triple threat, and Punk in a single's match for two of his 3 title victories.
Hardy was main-eventing PPV's against a wrestler who had already reached a higher level then Owen ever did in CM Punk, and he beat Punk clean in a single's match.
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There isn't a ton of wrestlers like Jeff Hardy in the WWE at this time. The best I can find is a young X-Pac here. It's exactly the way I see this going down though, Owen bumping around like a lad and making Hardy look great before capitilising on a mistake.
Except for X-Pac didn't achieve half the success that Hardy did, nor did he ever rise above mid-card status. So the comparison really doesn't hold. And he's also a smarter wrestler then X-Pac was, as he showed during his peak when he beat Edge, HBK, HHH, and Undertaker in standard one-on-one matches.
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He had Shawn Michaels beat clean here - that's a pretty big deal during Shawn's absolute prime.
A couple of things here:
1. He hit an enzeguri on HBK, who got up shortly after Stone Cold stunned the referee. There was no count, so we don't know if he had him beat or not.
2. Yes, the IC Title was the "wrestlers title" at the time, but it was still the midcard title. And it was held by Owen, who, 2 years
after his victory over Bret at Wrestlemania, was defending a midcard title for simply the reason of getting Stone Cold over, and furthering the feud between Bret and Shawn. He was a stepping stone. Hardy, during his prime, wasn't a stepping stone.
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Just to be balanced, here he loses to shawn but considering Shawn is one PPV away from main eventing Wrestlemania 12 for the biggest moment of his career, and is being booked as strongly as possible, it's SUPER competitive. And this is a tougher opponent than Jeff Hardy ever has been or ever will be, bear in mind.
This was actually a match to see who would face Bret at Wrestlemania, after Shawn won the Royal Rumble. And seeing how Jeff beat HBK in his prime, Im not sure how you can say that "he's a tougher opponent then Jeff." Jeff, in his prime, beat the guy that Owen couldn't.
He's 4-1 down lifetime to the Xpac. 4-1 down, as a face vs a heel. Sure, he's not in his peak though ok
The bolded part is all that matters. Main event Hardy would never have been booked to lose to freakin X-Pac.
Prime Hardy was booked superrrr strongly vs the roster and was pretty much the #2 babyface in the WWE. Vs Triple H he had a win/loss over this time of 4-2 in Jeff's favour. Vs Randy Orton, he went 3-3. Both of those are massive, massive heels in the WWE.
Are you arguing for or against Hardy? What truly brought Hardy
into his prime was his win over HHH at Armageddon 2007, where he pinned HHH clean. If it hadn't been for a drug suspension, his own fault, it likely wouldn't have been a year until Armageddon 2008 that he beat HHH and Edge
The guy whose workrate was most similar to Owen Hart in the main event picture at that time? CM Punk. CM Punk was absolutely nowhere near the level he has reached now.
Yet he was still a main event heel, main eventing Summerslam and Night of Champions against Hardy. And in their one-on-one, non-gimmick match at Night of Champions, Hardy won clean.
He had just turned heel, was slowly getting over but he hadn't even won his first WWE title.
Yes he had. He had won two, in fact. He had beaten Edge on Raw in May 2008, and Hardy in a MITB cash-in at the End of Extreme Rules 2009.
My point is, CM Punk was no Orton or HHH at this stage, not by any means, and yet he repeatedly won the pay off match vs Jeff Hardy and had an overall 4-3 record over Jeff.
He won the two gimmick matches against Hardy, and cashed in MITB. The only one on one single's match(excluding the MITB cash-in) the two had, Hardy won. And this is a single's match, is it not?
This is the most technical guy Jeff faced. He had more luck against a near prime HHH than him, while Owen has always excelled against highflyers.
What major highflyers did Owen beat? Further, see above. Hardy, at Night of Champions 2009, beat Punk in their only one-on-one non-gimmick match, clean.
Look, if you wanna pick who is the bigger star, who has achieved more, who deserves to go through, this is a no-brainer for Jeff Hardy. An absolute no brainer.
Furthermore, he's the better guy in his prime. And he's gone from putting his own career in turmoil multiple times to recovering to become a 6 time World Champion, and remains in his prime, as he was TNA's World Champion until Sunday, holding the title for 5 months.
But when I consider this match, all I see is Owen Hart getting in Jeff Hardy's head and capitlising on a mistake to get into the second round.
I doubt it. You compared Owen to Punk, and I already showed how when they went one-on-one in a straight up single's match, Hardy beat Punk. I don't see the result here being any different.
Hardy doesn't need my endorsement, he's winning handily here. Just thought Id lend some perspective.
. Honestly, I agree with the vast majority of what you say and always knew I was arguing a tenuous point. As I said a lot, Hardy certainly deserves to go over, I could just envision Owen getting the W. Anyway, since you took the time I'll reply, but I'm mostly on the same page if truth be told.
