Way To Bury The Entire Locker Room Vince

[TWJC: The Beginning]

People need to learn what "burying" means. This is not it. It came across like Lesnar was over confident and under estimated Goldberg. It gives lesnars character motivation and pumps life into goldberg as more than just a return.

 

[kadroan]

People need to learn what "burying" means. This is not it. It came across like Lesnar was over confident and under estimated Goldberg. It gives lesnars character motivation and pumps life into goldberg as more than just a return.

True. Brock really hasn't had character development since he returned. He's been stale since he lost the championship to Rollins.

 

[rge2010]

Sounds like you're grasping at straws. We've already known that Lesnar is "beatable" because he's lost a few bouts since his return to WWE. My entire point, which so many seem to have conveniently ignored, isn't that Goldberg necessarily beat Lesnar, but he did it in 86 seconds flat. I'm not a fan of Goldberg or Lesnar, I'd be perfectly fine if both of them never showed up in WWE again; I never cared about Goldberg in WCW and the novelty of the unstoppable juggernaut formula used for Lesnar has long since worn off. My point is that Lesnar, someone that's dominated WWE since his return, is beaten by a 50 year old relic of the Attitude Era who hasn't wrestled in 12.5 years in 1.5 minutes instead of being used to elevate someone in WWE that's not in their 40s or 50s. You know, use the steam that Lesnar has built up as a means of giving someone on the roster that's going to help carry the company for years to come a rub.

a) You are probably one of many to moan about WWE being predictable. Well this wasn't.

b) You are disrespectful to Goldbergs character. He was/is a dominant force and is a legend of the squared circle. Most fans probably aren't aware he is 50 because h doesn't really look it.

c) It was a shock defeat. Lesnar was stunned. It happens! Even in legit sport like UFC where Jose Aldo was knocked out in 13 seconds after going 10 years undefeated!

d) For those who get their panties in a twist over Brock losing like this it is easy to rectify. He destroys Goldberg at the Rumble which leads to a retirement match at Mania. He beats Goldberg and he adds that to his accolades. The defeat is casually forgotten.

e) You are over analysing Brocks 'mystique'. You want to believe WWE is real but it isn't!

 

[johnbragg]

You want to believe WWE is real but it isn't!

IF you're analyzing storylines, you have to do it from the perspective that, in-universe, what's happening is "real". To Cody Rhodes and Dwayne Johnson and Fergal Devitt, it's scripted. To Stardust and The Rock and Finn Balor, it has to be real.

No successful form of entertainment excuses plot holes and logic failures by saying "It's not real." If you don't minimize them, your story falls apart.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

c) It was a shock defeat. Lesnar was stunned. It happens! Even in legit sport like UFC where Jose Aldo was knocked out in 13 seconds after going 10 years undefeated!

You're right, WWE is trying to appear like a legit sport.

e) You are over analysing Brocks 'mystique'. You want to believe WWE is real but it isn't!

You're right, we're trying to pretend WWE is a legit sport but actually it is not.

Part of the reason I watch WWE is that they have the ability to have big main events and script them in a way that makes it appear that both performers earned their paychecks (see Rollins/Owens from last night - except that was just a Raw). This was a five moves then doom ripoff after waiting for 12 years.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I hate to be the one to break it to you guys, but Goldberg beating Brock Lesnar is not the reason Dolph Ziggler (or whoever your favorite mediocre wrestler is) isn't the next Steve Austin or John Cena.

You cannot bury someone who was not a big deal in the first place. I know that's a tough pill to swallow, but deal with reality. They needed to pop the network for Survivor Series, and I'm sorry, but Lesnar vs. Cesaro isn't going to get it done.

 

[Bischoff's Knob Slobberer]

I met Vince Russo and Goldberg back in 1996. Russo introduced Goldberg to me and told me of his plans to make Goldberg a badass, character that would go on an epic winning streak. So there! I have it fresh from Russo's mouth! Maybe Bitchoff stole Russo's idea, but Goldberg was indeed Russo's baby.

 

[johnbragg]

I hate to be the one to break it to you guys, but Goldberg beating Brock Lesnar is not the reason Dolph Ziggler (or whoever your favorite mediocre wrestler is) isn't the next Steve Austin or John Cena.

Maybe Dolph Ziggler was never going to be The Guy. But somehow, between Dolph Ziggler, CM PUnk, Jack Swagger, the Miz, John Morrison, Alberto Del Rio, Seamus and Wade Barrett, nobody was been worthy of elevation to that level. Maybe throw in Ken Kennedy. A level that Class of 2002 guys Cena, Lesnar and sometimes Orton got to. In a kayfabe sport, that indicates that there's something wrong with the system.

Over the last 10 years or so, megastars of the past have gone over the rising stars of the then-present. Nobody could imagine Miz or Morrison or Punk or Seamus or Wade Barrett or Dolph Ziggler really getting the best of Cena or the Undertaker or the visiting Rock or Lesnar. And now it's hard to imagine Reigns or Rollins or Ambrose or AJ Styles or Finn Balor or Kevin Owens doing it.

That tells you there's something wrong with your long-term booking and storytelling philosophy.

You cannot bury someone who was not a big deal in the first place. I know that's a tough pill to swallow, but deal with reality. They needed to pop the network for Survivor Series, and I'm sorry, but Lesnar vs. Cesaro isn't going to get it done.

Wrestling is a fake, scripted sport. OVer the last 10 years, WWE should have been able to build somebody or really several somebodies to the point where they're actual stars.

Part of the reason they haven't is that they reinforce the idea that today's rising stars don't match up to yesterday's stars. The fact that it may be true shouldn't stop WWE from trying to fix it.

 

[L@RISANO]

People need to learn what "burying" means. This is not it. It came across like Lesnar was over confident and under estimated Goldberg. It gives lesnars character motivation and pumps life into goldberg as more than just a return.

Pretty much this.
I take it everyone missed Lesnar's huge smark when Goldberg pushed him to the ground and then when Brock decided to nonchalantly turn his back on Goldberg(something that is hugely disrespectful and dismissive in a fight)?


Expect Heyman to pass it off as a fluke when the time for a rematch comes.

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

Funny how all you guys are such hypocrites, praising WWE for having Brock Lesnar squash top stars, but when a top star squashes Brock Lesnar, you all whine like babies.

No one praised WWE when Lesnar squashed numerous top stars, such as Ambrose, Orton, and Cena.

I remember myself and most other posters criticizing WWE for that.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

I met Vince Russo and Goldberg back in 1996. Russo introduced Goldberg to me and told me of his plans to make Goldberg a badass, character that would go on an epic winning streak. So there! I have it fresh from Russo's mouth! Maybe Bitchoff stole Russo's idea, but Goldberg was indeed Russo's baby.

And that prove what exactly, vince russo isn't known to be a a strait foward guy and has told a lie or 2 in his day. Plus how in the hell could he had met goldberg in 96 when goldberg wasn't even in the wrestling business back then. He started training in late 96 after he met Sting and Luger and went to the WCW power plant to train. Goldberg never wanted to go to WWE at the time so again how would russo be able to create a monsters with a undefeated streak out of Goldberg if the guy was never interested in going to WWE in the first place.

Russo is a liar, always was, always while and will take credit for pretty much anything that was popular in the attitude era even if he wasn'T even part of it. The guy always say that he'S the one that created the attitude era and that nobody else help him along the way when everybody knows that if it wasn't for vince Mcmahon filtering russo'S idea's to make them workable. The fact is that He'S saying this now because he see how big Goldberg became and wanted to jump on the bandwagon saying that it was his idea even through he had nothing to do with it. I wouldn't be surprise if he tells everybody that he call Bischoff back in 96 and gave him the idea for the NWO and that he should find a way to turn hogan heel.

 

[johnbragg]

And that prove what exactly, vince russo isn't known to be a a strait foward guy and has told a lie or 2 in his day. Plus how in the hell could he had met goldberg in 96 when goldberg wasn't even in the wrestling business back then. He started training in late 96 after he met Sting and Luger and went to the WCW power plant to train. Goldberg never wanted to go to WWE at the time so again how would russo be able to create a monsters with a undefeated streak out of Goldberg if the guy was never interested in going to WWE in the first place.

Russo is a liar,

I'm pretty sure JoeIsGonnaKillYou is too.

always was, always while and will take credit for pretty much anything that was popular in the attitude era even if he wasn'T even part of it. The guy always say that he'S the one that created the attitude era and that nobody else help him along the way when everybody knows that if it wasn't for vince Mcmahon filtering russo'S idea's to make them workable. The fact is that He'S saying this now because he see how big Goldberg became and wanted to jump on the bandwagon saying that it was his idea even through he had nothing to do with it. I wouldn't be surprise if he tells everybody that he call Bischoff back in 96 and gave him the idea for the NWO and that he should find a way to turn hogan heel.

 

[Slyfox696]

I met Vince Russo and Goldberg back in 1996. Russo introduced Goldberg to me and told me of his plans to make Goldberg a badass, character that would go on an epic winning streak. So there! I have it fresh from Russo's mouth! Maybe Bitchoff stole Russo's idea, but Goldberg was indeed Russo's baby.

[mod]You are lying. After the election, I have no tolerance for lying. Vince Russo did not create Goldberg. Vince Russo was not in WCW when Goldberg became a star. You are lying.

If you lie once more in this thread, you will receive an Infraction and you will become a Prisoner. I hate liars. Stop lying.[/mod]

 

[Jack-Hammer]

a) You are probably one of many to moan about WWE being predictable. Well this wasn't.

Actually, I'm not in favor of something being unpredictable most of the time because it's often done for something that doesn't make a whole helluva lot of sense. The Crash TV style of booking is the modus operandi of Vince Russo and is what essentially killed the quality of WCW. Doing something that's not "predictable" just for the sake of being able to sometimes get one over on fans, to sacrifice something for the moment whether it makes any logical, long term sense or not.

You are disrespectful to Goldbergs character. He was/is a dominant force and is a legend of the squared circle. Most fans probably aren't aware he is 50 because h doesn't really look it.

What character? He's one of the singularly most one dimensional wrestling characters of the past 20 years. There's a difference between being disrespectful and telling an unfortunate and, to some fans, hurtful truth and that's all this is. Goldberg's age is common knowledge and easy to look up, so laziness and willful ignorance is simply that.

c) It was a shock defeat. Lesnar was stunned. It happens! Even in legit sport like UFC where Jose Aldo was knocked out in 13 seconds after going 10 years undefeated!

Professional wrestling and mixed martial arts aren't remotely the same thing. I honestly have no idea why some people try to put them into the same arguments. Mixed martial arts involves genuine fighting, 100% unscripted competition while professional wrestling is ultimately scripted mocked combat. What works for one doesn't automatically work for the other. The reputation of an MMA fighter is often based on his win/loss record whereas the reputation of a pro wrestler is based off of how he's booked to look and the fictional and/or overly exaggerated persona he portrays.

d) For those who get their panties in a twist over Brock losing like this it is easy to rectify. He destroys Goldberg at the Rumble which leads to a retirement match at Mania. He beats Goldberg and he adds that to his accolades. The defeat is casually forgotten.

You've missed the entire, and I do mean the ENTIRE, purpose of my posts and the thread in general. It doesn't upset me whatsoever that Brock Lesnar lost, it's that Brock Lesnar lost to a 50 year old relic who hasn't wrestled in 12.5 years while there are plenty of highly talented, viable wrestlers on the roster who could've been built up to take Lesnar. Goldberg will probably be around until only WrestleMania, upon which he'll take his huge briefcases full of money and we'll probably never lay eyes on him again until he's inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame. If Vince wanted to "feed" Lesnar to someone in a 90 second squash match, I'm of the opinion he should've done so with a younger talent who'll help carry WWE for years to come. Instead of building up a challenger and giving a huge rub to someone like Owens, Rollins, Balor, Ambrose, Wyatt, Reigns or to use it to help establish a new monster like Strowman, the decision is made to job Lesnar out to someone that, in my opinion, is undeserving of it and perpetuates the image that Vince has accidentally created that modern stars aren't as good as those of the Attitude Era.

e) You are over analysing Brocks 'mystique'. You want to believe WWE is real but it isn't!

No son, I know it isn't real as I've so eloquently explained in this post and numerous other posts over the years.[/QUOTE]

 

[Navi]

I met Vince Russo and Goldberg back in 1996. Russo introduced Goldberg to me and told me of his plans to make Goldberg a badass, character that would go on an epic winning streak. So there! I have it fresh from Russo's mouth! Maybe Bitchoff stole Russo's idea, but Goldberg was indeed Russo's baby.

So what you are trying to tell us is that you met Vince Russo in 1996 when he was still working for the WWE. And he told you he would come up with this brainstorm of an idea to make Goldberg unstoppable.

But his crystal ball must have had a crack in it, because when Goldberg entered Starrcade in 1998 he was already at a 173-0 winning streak, when he lost to Kevin Nash. Russo was still toiling away in the WWE. How unfortunate for him that someone heard him tell you that and used his idea before he could put it into play himself.

You are so full of shit it's not funny. Google is your friend you know.

 

[Bischoff's Knob Slobberer]

[mod]You are lying. After the election, I have no tolerance for lying. Vince Russo did not create Goldberg. Vince Russo was not in WCW when Goldberg became a star. You are lying.

If you lie once more in this thread, you will receive an Infraction and you will become a Prisoner. I hate liars. Stop lying.[/mod]

You don't know what the hell you are talking about. You are the liar...and a very bad one at that. Do what you have to do hoss..........

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

No one praised WWE when Lesnar squashed numerous top stars, such as Cena.

You're kidding, right? You mean the match that single handedly turned Lesnar face? Nope. Completely negative reaction...

 

[Slyfox696]

Do what you have to do hoss..........

[mod]I did. Happily. I doubt anyone will miss you.[/mod]

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

You're kidding, right? You mean the match that single handedly turned Lesnar face? Nope. Completely negative reaction...

Well yeah most people loved it when he squashed Cena. Shouldn't have included him.

Regardless most people hated it when he squashed Ambrose and Orton.

The point I was trying to make is - most people are tired of Lesnar squashing wrestlers in general.

 

[ShinChan]

Well yeah most people loved it when he squashed Cena. Shouldn't have included him.

Regardless most people hated it when he squashed Ambrose and Orton.

The point I was trying to make is - most people are tired of Lesnar squashing wrestlers in general.

Exactly. There was no more need to see Brock's match. I had stopped watching his matches. Because the result of every match was an expected one. If you repeat something again and again, it becomes stale and boring. I was tired of seeing him squash guys like Rollins and Ambrose. Thank god, Bray and Owens never faced him.