Watching TNA After Watching the Rise/Fall of WCW

[EStreet]

There have been many threads comparing TNA to WCW but my observations are drastically different following my viewing of the Rise and Fall dvd. It seems too obvious that Bischoff, HH, and Russo are simply running TNA just as they did WCW. In fact, they are doing it right in fans faces as if to say, we know what we did and here we are going to now going to run an entire promotion based off of exploiting our failures (not successes).

What stood out to me in the Rise and Fall was just how important the role of those calling the shots were to the actual company. Whether it was wrestling minded people, or the corporate guys from Turner, the promotion was effected and success was directly correlated to them - not the product for the market or competition.

In TNA we have seen control of the company been given to HH/Bischoff and we all know the man known as Vince Russo is behind the curtain somewhere. They flaunt this in a way that arrogantly screams - we were the best part of WCW and are the best part of TNA. But TNA is not WCW and they are not the best part of anything, they are the cancer - which ironically enough was the case in WCW when it began to tumble.

Look at all the hoakey gimicks. E Young has now become a walking embodiment of all bad gimicks or ideas in WCW and has the role to execute them in TNA in a comedic role. The joke from HH and EB is that "Hey we know we fucked it up but we're going to remind you how great we were back then before we did it".

Then you have the concept of bringing in people for the sake of it. Why not bring in Orlando Jordan, Shannon Moore, EV2 - they once had a spot in wrestling and surely will just clutter a roster to the point we cannot showcase wrestling talent (ala the cruiserweight problem in WCW which cost them the Radicalz and Y2J). Speaking of cruiserweight, X-Division is suppose to be getting this huge push in another effort to exterminate the division all together. So how do they highlight the division, give the title to the "Monster" - well they might as well brought in David Arquette

Nash Hall Hogan all had rule in WCW as wrestlers because of the way the dictated pay and air time. They get paid the most so therefore must get the most TV time - its not that terrible in theory except for the fact that in the later days of WCW those guys didnt deserve all the spot light that their paychecks said they did. Hardy (when he was around), RVD, and Anderson are recognized stars in the business having built their names and fans in other promotions (just how the Outsiders did it). But they do not deserve as much face time as they get to do things other than wrestle. And they are the big paid guys on the roster. While guys like AJ, Joe, Daniels, Kaz, MCMG, get there spots but don't crack any ceilings with their pushes. AJ is the Bill Golddberg of TNA - the guy everyone wants to see and call champion but just can't break through because there are guys who are seen as politically more important.

And a new wrinkle in the old game of Ruin the Company is the concept that storeylines will be created before the people are signed and part of the org. MEM failed, Chyna not being used after huge reaction, Mick Foley gone after Network revelation. this one is new (or maybe not) and is quite embarassing. The same way WCW became towards its demise.

The parallels are too dam obvious and while everyone can point to the similar cast of characters or guys running the company (in some ways I did). I actually think its deeper than that. Its guys ignorance to what they did in the past and thinking that shoving it in the face of the audience is a great "SHOOT" on their failures. Failures should never be celebrated the way they have been in TNA/Impact.

And the thing that is funniest. Jeff Jarret still gets his air time because he founded the company. The bitter old founder will not let what happen to Crockett happen to him - irony that Crockett getting taken over was a good thing, not a bad.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

TNA and WCW are practically the same company. It's eerie how similiar it is, booking wise to WCW. Can't say that's a shocker considering that the focal points of WCW are now behind the wheel in TNA.

Now, I hope you're not implying that TNA is going down the same road WCW did before its death, because that would be a false statement. If TNA ever goes out of business (and that's going to be fairly soon I wager) it won't be like WCW. That's too great for them. Do you think they can beat WWE with the dreck they're putting out? Don't think so. It's not gonna end like WCW. It will end like ECW. Known for being that company that could, but never did, because it was ran by an idiot.

 

[WWWYKI777]

Known for being that company that could, but never did, because it was ran by an idiot.

I don't understand peoples criticisms of TNA , I not only think TNA is great but that its better than WWE

TNA and WCW are practically the same company

I also thought WCW > WWF back in the day

What exactly is it that they > 'could' < be doing any differently or "better"? I just don't get it

Other than being on a more accesible TV channel and advertising more and expanding their merchandising more I mean the product of their show in itself has no problems with it if you ask me



So is the complaint people have about TNA being stupid what I see? That they need to expand their merchandising and advertising more? Or do they have a gripe with the show in itself?

 

[Genius_Deadman]

i think they're similar also, but the fates won't be for these (and among other) reasons:

-if TNA closes it's doors tomorrow, it won't be a tragic loss like WCW. the reason WCW was a big loss was because they almost ran Vince McMahon out of business and it self-destructed. TNA hasn't come close to that and the biggest props they gave themselves was beating ECW in the ratings

-the relationship between TNA/Panda Energy (or whatever) isn't the same as WCW/Time Warner. TNA is being funded with hopes to be a top player while once Time Warner got into the mix with WCW, they saw it as waste and wanted to end it.

the biggest identical factors are the guys running TNA right now. Bischoff/Russo are running it and it seems eerily the same as WCW when they both did (replicates of the New Blood/Millionaires Club and a watered down version of the nWo which Russo helped do in 2000). unlike WCW though, if TNA falls the company won't be the center of the disaster. instead the wrestling reputations of Russo/Bischoff/Hogan get the fatal blow with what they're doing.

 

[bigtrav01]

They are very similar, and how Gaga thinks that TNA's current product is better than WWE's I will never know. Sure neither are good but TNA hasn't done anything right in a while. They killed the X-Division, the one thing that made them stand out, they have booked odd storylines, such as last year when RVD was champion and got took out by Abyss, they made him drop the title, only for him to be back before the tournament to determine the new champion was over, if anything they should have put him in that match at Bound for Glory and made it a Fatal Four Way. Then you had the Jeff Hardy accident, this terrible Wrestling Matters stuff, wrestling doesn't matter when you have more talking on an episode of Impact than an episode of RAW.

TNA will be dead within an year, mark my words, I've tried my best to get into TNA and I just can't. They have nothing interesting going on and if I miss one episode I have no clue what is going on, they suddenly stop pushes more often than WWE does (see the pushes of The Pope and Matt Morgan) The only good thing about TNA is when Ric Flair cuts a promo, if it wasn't for Flair I would say TNA is a 100% failure of a company, but since Flair is there I'll only say 98%.

 

[JackBurton]

i think they're similar also, but the fates won't be for these (and among other) reasons:

-if TNA closes it's doors tomorrow, it won't be a tragic loss like WCW. the reason WCW was a big loss was because they almost ran Vince McMahon out of business and it self-destructed. TNA hasn't come close to that and the biggest props they gave themselves was beating ECW in the ratings

-the relationship between TNA/Panda Energy (or whatever) isn't the same as WCW/Time Warner. TNA is being funded with hopes to be a top player while once Time Warner got into the mix with WCW, they saw it as waste and wanted to end it.

the biggest identical factors are the guys running TNA right now. Bischoff/Russo are running it and it seems eerily the same as WCW when they both did (replicates of the New Blood/Millionaires Club and a watered down version of the nWo which Russo helped do in 2000). unlike WCW though, if TNA falls the company won't be the center of the disaster. instead the wrestling reputations of Russo/Bischoff/Hogan get the fatal blow with what they're doing.

The reason WCW going under was a tragedy was they nearly put Vince out of business? Wow. I dunno what to say to that almost.

Maybe its because I dont have a massive hole in my life that I see fit to fill with bitterness or resentment that I dont want ANY company to go under or for the very, very hardworking people who work there to be out of a job.

The tragedy of WCW is that so many workers had one less place to go to make good money. Also the lack of competition allowed WWF/E to become slack and eventually so comfortable that they tried to redefine the industry in the their on image. Which to be fair they have achieved; everyone thinks wrestling is a joke, a bad parody of Saturday Night Live (thanks Vince).

The real irony of the OP is the use of a WWE produced DVD as source material for this great IWC opinion that "Bischoff and Hogan ruined WCW".

Vince went out of his way to make WCW look pissant, he's hardly going to comission a DVD 10 years later telling a contradictory story. WCW is/was shit and so were the guys who ran it. Thats the sentiment. Taking ANY WWE produced material and using it to form an opinion on anything WWE related is inherently redundant.

Bischoff, with lots of help from guys like Hall, Nash, Hogan and Savage made WCW something we couldnt wait to watch. They didnt capatilize on that success in the sense that they never made new stars (not many anyway, Goldberg certainly).

Eric Bischoff didnt hire Vince Russo. Hulk Hogan didnt hire Vince Russo.

Eric Bischoff didnt veto every angle that violated standards and practices.

Hulk Hogan didnt veto every angle that violated standards and practices.

And just as a little interlude heres a fine example of how Time Warner handled business with WCW, illustrating the impossible position anyone given the riegns of that company at the time would have to face: "foriegn object" were not at first banned outright due to standards and practices; but the name "foriegn object" that had to go. Why I hear you ask? Well because those nice folks at Time Warner, who didnt sabotage the product it was Hogan and Bisch remember, said that the name "foriegn object" was politically incorrect. Because of the word "foriegn".

I shouldnt even have to continue after that example but I will anyway:

Eric Bischoff didnt sell 40 years of the NWA back catalogue for 1 million dollars.

Hulk Hogan didnt sell 40 years of the NWA back catalogue for 1 million dollars.

And Hulk Hogan or Eric Bischoff didnt hire the man who was Vinces PPV guy during the 80s to broker the deal to buy WCW.

Time Warner did. And Vince got a nice little price their. Pray tell:

Have Hogan OR Bischoff benefited from WCW going bust?

Qui Bono: latin for "who benefits"

In 1999/2000 that company was salvageble. Increasingly so when Kevin Sullivan took the book along with Nash and the numbers increased as did the quality of the product. The pinch was put on that not long after with Sullivan and anyone else involved in his successful period in charge being shown the door.

None of this testimony is on any WWE DVD. And yet even with this startling lack of clarity on the matter people still see fit to put the blame on whoever they're favourite sheet writer hates the most.

Are they angels so pure and white that snow blushes in their presence? Hell no. Have they done politiking? Hell yes. Dare you to find my one talent thats been on top that hasnt? There is none.

As for the similarities between TNA and WCW: WWE is more like WCW than TNA by a country mile. They treat their talent the same way; The product has gotten ridiculous to the point of ruining the credibility of the industry; and its now run by a bunch of suits from every field under the sun other than pro wrestling. AND just like those suits from WCW, the suits from WWE HATE wrestling and the people who watch it (thats me and you btw).

Worst still they even have to ban the term "Pro wrestling" they are that ashamed of it.

Sadly there isnt a even a comparison of product with TNA and WCW. To say "they done some of the same angles" is ass backward. Vince brought in the NWO and it was watered down so that makes WWE just like WCW with that logic.

Hell, you could even say that companies that came before WCW were "just the same" as most WCW angles were done years before they started.

Hmm

 

[Chess]

I can't say I ever watched WCW (not sure it aired in the UK) but it was beating WWE in ratings for a while so it must have been quite entertaining. I believe WCW went out of business due to poor finances or spending to much of Ted Turners money rather than poor ratings or bad TV?

I agree that when Hogan/Bischoff came in they started wasting talent and money as you mentioned, but recently since the rebranding, Impact Wrestling has become much more enjoyable. I for one enjoy Russo's clusterfuck style of booking even though he can sometimes have too many random swerves or bad match endings (See Angle Vs Jarrett fued). However I see bad decision making in WWE just as much if not more and for me WWE is no way near as entertaining in the ring or with promos.

I like Eric Young and his random character.

The X-Division is about to rise again, Abyss is only the means to an end in that when Kaz finally wins the title off him it will be more meaningful then him defeating Amazing Red.

Hardy is gone for now, RVD loses most of his matches against main eventers and is now mid card, while Anderson should win the title soon as he only lost it because Hardy turned up. AJ will be Heavyweight champion again this year and is currently in the biggest stable/group in IW pushing for titles and on TV every week.

IW does fuck up when it comes to storylines, although the return of MEM was only rumoured. I could mention WWE doing promos for Sting for mania before quickly changing it to Taker when it became clear Sting was not going to sign. Perhaps I should mention Kharma getting a major push as a monster before completely ruining her character by ackowledging she was pregnant (by the way I doubt you ever see he in WWE again).

Chyna is getting ass banged in cheap porn so IW is wise not to use her again. I would think IW would get slammed even harder than Chyna if she was to appear again.

The Foley thing is a worry but hopefully the network story is not over.

So there you have it, I disagree with practically everything the OP stated.

On a side note:

Zeven has your account been hacked or do you have bi polar? I prefer the IW loving version of you, not this guy contradicting all your previous posts about loving TNA/IW.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Even if they're very similar? So what? It gives wrestling fans more options and gives a lot of stars more exposure and oppurtunities.

Lets say you're a fan of Chris Masters, and Chris Masters is released by WWE. Unless Chris Masters gets a job with TNA, chances are you'll be seeing very little of him, so instead TNA picks him up like they did with Elijah Burke and Ken Anderson and they hand those guys second chances.

I was a fan of TNA under Jeff Jarrett. I very rarely watch it now, but I do see the positives it has on wrestling. It fills the void left by WCW, the same way ROH fills the void left by ECW. TNA and WCW are similar because they're being run by basically the same people. Eric Bicshoff, Vince Russo, Hulk Hogan are in TNA and have major power as they had in WCW.

But in fairness, they're trying to change. It just isn't working very well.

 

[yoshi_doce2006]

Similar is one thing, WCW was great as a show, but not as a company. Common misconception is that Bischoff has a huge role in creative, not true. Bischoff is Hogan's adviser, but Hogan calls the shots while Russo for all his ineptness does the writing. Top that off with Dixie Carter making the decisions on finances that is a recipe for disaster. Bischoff is Executive Producer and I love the direction the production of the show has gone since Bischoff was promoted to that role.

Several people I like to call Ass-Lickers/Brown Nosers have been let go in the last year however. The latest being the untalented Talent Director Terry Taylor. What I have heard is that most people in TNA dont like Russo and want him gone, they dont like how he writes the show.

Who do the wrestlers and personnel want promoted to run the company? From what I read they want Eric Bischoff promoted to call the shots. Now, Bischoff is a consultant and does have some pull but in the end it is Hogan and Russo calling the shots.

Bischoff admitted that the Creative Control Clause he placed in the contracts of Hogan, Nash, and a few others led to the downfall of WCW because he couldn't overturn creative decisions those guys made. He has admitted that he let those things get out of hand, then when Russo took his spot Russo turned around and gave Jeff Jarrett a Creative Control Clause which was trumped only by Hogan's clause. It was a pure mess that by 1998 I think Bischoff said was already beginning to spiral out of control, then Bischoff steps down sighting burnout and a booking committee steps in headed by ACTIVE WRESTLER Kevin Nash, then Russo came in and more stupidity ensued.

Russo has never admitted to bad business decisions, Hogan has never admitted to bad decisions, Bischoff has flat said if he ever ran a company again there would be ZERO chance of repeating the Creative Control and Ego Trips that there were in WCW and Bischoff is at a place in life that he doesnt need that drama.

I personally believe that TNA is like WCW in the bad ways backstage right now because there is nobody in a booking capacity or decision makin position that demands respect for their work. People dont respect Russo for his writing, they dont respect Hogan for his creative abilities, yet they respect Bischoff, the guy that is stuck in the production truck and doesnt go to all of the creative meetings.

I believe that in the next two years while Hogan looks over creative, and Russo keeps being stupid, Bischoff will once again be promoted. He was promoted from Adviser to Executive Producer after 8 months, the next promotion may be to Vice President of the company. If that happens I could see a lot of change in TNA, especially since I read that Dixie Carter's mother approves of any promotion given to Eric Bischoff.

One change I would see is Vince Russo being replaced by a guy like Tommy Dreamer who has been working in Creative but clashed with Russo and Hogan the entire way on how the show should be booked. Another is that D-Lo Brown seems to be poised in at some point taking Terry Taylor's old job.

Anyway that is just my two cents.

 

[Dieter_Von_Cunth]

Ah yes. Much like a women's mentrual cycle, this must be the IWC's time of the month to rip once again the likes of Russo, Bischoff, and Russo. Booooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggggggg

 

[Azane]

The only major thing thats constantly reminding me of WCW is that TNA kills off almost half of it's angles. Not only their fault, but constantly you see several week/month long builds and nothing to show for it but a career ruined. Samoa Joe's been wallowing around the semi-useless bin after his kidnapping got dropped. The MEM being ruined by a couple Royal Rumble entrants. The Network building for a few months just to randomly fire the payoff. It just gets frustrating as a fan who just wants to be entertained to have suspended logic every 2 seconds, I mean, all wrestling companies do this, to a point, but TNA and WCW is/were just god awful at these.

 

[Rasha]

There have been many threads comparing TNA to WCW but my observations are drastically different following my viewing of the Rise and Fall dvd. It seems too obvious that Bischoff, HH, and Russo are simply running TNA just as they did WCW. In fact, they are doing it right in fans faces as if to say, we know what we did and here we are going to now going to run an entire promotion based off of exploiting our failures (not successes).

Other than the X-Division and the change to a four-sided ring, please explain to me how different TNA now after Hogan and Bischoff joined. Before Immortal there was a Main Event Mafia and a Planet Jarrett. Before Jeff Hardy, RVD, and Ken Anderson there were Kurt Angle, Christian, Bobby Lashley, Taz, and many other WWE cast-offs. They've changed very little. It's the most overrated and exaggerated issue we talk about on this forum.

In TNA we have seen control of the company been given to HH/Bischoff and we all know the man known as Vince Russo is behind the curtain somewhere. They flaunt this in a way that arrogantly screams - we were the best part of WCW and are the best part of TNA. But TNA is not WCW and they are not the best part of anything, they are the cancer - which ironically enough was the case in WCW when it began to tumble.

Hogan and Bischoff have been given control ON CAMERA. What level of control do they actually have backstage? You have no idea, bro. None of us really do. Yes, they're all involved and I'm sure they have input. But this bus is still driven by Dixie Carter and you're just talking out of your speculative ass if you assume otherwise.

Look at all the hoakey gimicks. E Young has now become a walking embodiment of all bad gimicks or ideas in WCW and has the role to execute them in TNA in a comedic role. The joke from HH and EB is that "Hey we know we fucked it up but we're going to remind you how great we were back then before we did it".

Did I miss the week he dressed up Glacier? Or RoboCop? What the hell are you talking about? Young's just playing a guy who's been knocked silly and is the comic relief of the show. What he's doing right now is much more akin to Santino than anyone we had in WCW. He hasn't been copying anything from WCW, unless you want to count the "Not So Great Muta" appearance last week. That's just a totally inaccurate statement.

Then you have the concept of bringing in people for the sake of it. Why not bring in Orlando Jordan, Shannon Moore, EV2 - they once had a spot in wrestling and surely will just clutter a roster to the point we cannot showcase wrestling talent (ala the cruiserweight problem in WCW which cost them the Radicalz and Y2J).

Because bringing in recognized names to try and boost your company's exposure and add new fans is a bad idea, right? Not saying Jordan and Moore were the second coming of Hall and Nash by any means, but it's not like TNA's originals were setting the world on fire. Besides, I'm trying to remember when Jordan or Moore received huge pushes. Seems like they were brought in, given a chance to do something, and then disappeared other than becoming basic bit players.

As for EV2, I wasn't a fan by any means but it wasn't the worst idea ever. Just like you wanted to go back and watch a documentary about WCW, there are plenty of people for whom ECW is still a nostalgic reference. And, news flash... most TNA fans were probably ECW fans as well. Besides, a big part of EV2's presence was for everyone to think they'd be Abyss' "THEY" and to facilitate the swerve with Hardy's heel turn and Immortal. Again, not trying to say this was a great angle. But it was hardly inexcusable.

Speaking of cruiserweight, X-Division is suppose to be getting this huge push in another effort to exterminate the division all together. So how do they highlight the division, give the title to the "Monster" - well they might as well brought in David Arquette

Right, because Abyss is going to hold the title forever and nobody will ever beat him. There's just no way Kazarian, Kendrick, or some other guy will win the title back and help launch the resurrection of the division. It's crazy to think that bullying the X-Division guys and trying to destroy them will rally fan support and make it more special when they finally prevail. Underdog stories NEVER work in this country.

And the thing that is funniest. Jeff Jarret still gets his air time because he founded the company. The bitter old founder will not let what happen to Crockett happen to him - irony that Crockett getting taken over was a good thing, not a bad.

Pretty sure Jeff only returned to television so that this "real life" feud between he and Angle could happen. What has he done prior to this? And please don't mention the MMA Exhibition stuff, because that was obviously a lead-in to his first match with Angle.

 

[hunterXhunter21]

Correct me if I am wrong and show me a source, but Eric Bischoff and Hogan were not with WCW when it was shut down. Did they cause events to happen before they left that maybe helped the downfall? Maybe. But they were both gone for what I think was almost a year.

Also the interviews I have heard with Hogan he says that him and Eric are not in 100% control. It's not like him, Eric and Vince are all sitting in a room together trying to plan the end of TNA. If you have something that points to these three being the only ones in control then please share.

Why bring in ex-WWE stars? Now this is why Eric doesn't think the IWC is all that bright. Their home grown talent had only got them so far. If 100% of wrestling fans wanted to see the best wrestlers go at it ROH and PWG DVDs would be selling out left and right. They would be the companies on Spike and USA. But they are not. If you want to capture the views WWE has you need people they know. You can't expect people with no name value to draw in new viewers.

Also Abyss has the X-Division title is A STORY LINE! Didn't we just see a 10 minute plus X match this past week on Impact? I didn't time the other matches but it felt like the longest match of the night. They will keep being highlighted while they work together to take the title away from Abyss.

For all we know the MEM deal could have been worked out. They could have been working on hand shakes. Which is the way Vince did things for years. So yeah it may take a few times for them to learn not to do things on hand shake deals, it took Vince awhile. Chyna seems to be gone cause of her sex tape. From what I remember people here were throwing a fit cause TNA used her before the tape became public knowledge. So pick on side of the fence.

WCW may have been bleeding money which was due to guaranteed contracts, but they were still pulling in Smackdown like numbers. The problem TNA has now is they need to get their name out there. Sign a deal with Mcdonalds. They need a national company, not the regional deal they had with that chip company. Their billboard plane would have been a good idea if they put them in more then just CT. Put them in big wrestling towns.

 

[yoshi_doce2006]

Ah yes. Much like a women's mentrual cycle, this must be the IWC's time of the month to rip once again the likes of Russo, Bischoff, and Russo. Booooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggggggg

Hey, I LIKE Bischoff. I think he would do a very good job running TNA and bring about positive change. I just think Russo is an idiot and Hogan is too inexperienced in the front office to know what he is doing.

 

[Rayne]

Correct me if I am wrong and show me a source, but Eric Bischoff and Hogan were not with WCW when it was shut down. Did they cause events to happen before they left that maybe helped the downfall? Maybe. But they were both gone for what I think was almost a year.

Nope. Smart people get off a sinking ship before it's underwater. Remember that Eric Bischoff was replaced by an accountant, of all things. Either Time Warner had gone completely insane, or they were concerned about just how much money WCW was spending to achieve those big ratings.

Study failing companies and you'll notice a trend- towards the end, there are frequent management reshuffles, and the people in charge at the end typically haven't been there for long. The people who were at the helm when the company sank either quit or were dismissed, and either the owners (or board of directors for publicly held companies) bring in new management that they hope can change things, or a caretaker management to wind things down and squeeze as much money as possible out of the venture before it fails. (Trying to guess which they're doing is hella fun, unless you're a stockholder in the company.)

 

[mlp420]

The reason WCW going under was a tragedy was they nearly put Vince out of business? Wow. I dunno what to say to that almost.

Maybe its because I dont have a massive hole in my life that I see fit to fill with bitterness or resentment that I dont want ANY company to go under or for the very, very hardworking people who work there to be out of a job.

The tragedy of WCW is that so many workers had one less place to go to make good money. Also the lack of competition allowed WWF/E to become slack and eventually so comfortable that they tried to redefine the industry in the their on image. Which to be fair they have achieved; everyone thinks wrestling is a joke, a bad parody of Saturday Night Live (thanks Vince).

The real irony of the OP is the use of a WWE produced DVD as source material for this great IWC opinion that "Bischoff and Hogan ruined WCW".

Vince went out of his way to make WCW look pissant, he's hardly going to comission a DVD 10 years later telling a contradictory story. WCW is/was shit and so were the guys who ran it. Thats the sentiment. Taking ANY WWE produced material and using it to form an opinion on anything WWE related is inherently redundant.

Eric Bischoff didnt hire Vince Russo. Hulk Hogan didnt hire Vince Russo.

Eric Bischoff didnt veto every angle that violated standards and practices.

Hulk Hogan didnt veto every angle that violated standards and practices.

Eric Bischoff didnt sell 40 years of the NWA back catalogue for 1 million dollars.

Hulk Hogan didnt sell 40 years of the NWA back catalogue for 1 million dollars.

And Hulk Hogan or Eric Bischoff didnt hire the man who was Vinces PPV guy during the 80s to broker the deal to buy WCW.

Time Warner did. And Vince got a nice little price their. Pray tell:

Have Hogan OR Bischoff benefited from WCW going bust?

None of this testimony is on any WWE DVD. And yet even with this startling lack of clarity on the matter people still see fit to put the blame on whoever they're favourite sheet writer hates the most.


Hmm

Great points. It's good to see that some people on these boards can actually use their brains instead of just uttering the same nonsense over and over again. I knew exactly what the OP was going to post just by reading the topic title.

 

[rondiesel2005]

Correct me if I am wrong and show me a source, but Eric Bischoff and Hogan were not with WCW when it was shut down. Did they cause events to happen before they left that maybe helped the downfall? Maybe. But they were both gone for what I think was almost a year.

Also the interviews I have heard with Hogan he says that him and Eric are not in 100% control. It's not like him, Eric and Vince are all sitting in a room together trying to plan the end of TNA. If you have something that points to these three being the only ones in control then please share.

Why bring in ex-WWE stars? Now this is why Eric doesn't think the IWC is all that bright. Their home grown talent had only got them so far. If 100% of wrestling fans wanted to see the best wrestlers go at it ROH and PWG DVDs would be selling out left and right. They would be the companies on Spike and USA. But they are not. If you want to capture the views WWE has you need people they know. You can't expect people with no name value to draw in new viewers.

Also Abyss has the X-Division title is A STORY LINE! Didn't we just see a 10 minute plus X match this past week on Impact? I didn't time the other matches but it felt like the longest match of the night. They will keep being highlighted while they work together to take the title away from Abyss.

For all we know the MEM deal could have been worked out. They could have been working on hand shakes. Which is the way Vince did things for years. So yeah it may take a few times for them to learn not to do things on hand shake deals, it took Vince awhile. Chyna seems to be gone cause of her sex tape. From what I remember people here were throwing a fit cause TNA used her before the tape became public knowledge. So pick on side of the fence.

WCW may have been bleeding money which was due to guaranteed contracts, but they were still pulling in Smackdown like numbers. The problem TNA has now is they need to get their name out there. Sign a deal with Mcdonalds. They need a national company, not the regional deal they had with that chip company. Their billboard plane would have been a good idea if they put them in more then just CT. Put them in big wrestling towns.

I remember back recent interviews, remember the whole 6 sided ring change that was hogan's idea, he said that in interview and also said that Bischoff also agree to change the 6 sided ring to 4 sided ring and also said that wrestling is meant to be in 4 sided ring, not 6 sided ring. I think Hogan and Bischoff have some creative ideas because u see with Dixie in charge, you probably hear stories where she would be like talk to Hogan or Bischoff.

Hogan even said he got tired of going to meetings when he had to explain what TNA is when the people in the meetings thought it mean tits and Ass, so he thought it be better to change it to impact wrestling. I don't know who's idea was it to say" Wrestling Matters". to me that is not the point, its about entertaining the fans the right way. Things have to make sense in order for the fans to want to watch the product. Confuse the fans they most likely won't watch the product. by bringing in ex wwe stars, its a way to bring more attention. If fans who never watch the product sees a billboard of two stars they never seen before, they not going to watch it. Put Kurt Angle and another TNA star, they will know who Kurt is and don't know who the other guy is, and will watch the product to find out.

If you were to ask Hogan and Bischoff a question, they most likely will try to answer it, but not the way u want them to. Like they will try to cover it up. I am sure u heard Hogan might return to the ring again, i wonder who's idea that was to begin with.

 

[yoshi_doce2006]

Correct me if I am wrong and show me a source, but Eric Bischoff and Hogan were not with WCW when it was shut down. Did they cause events to happen before they left that maybe helped the downfall? Maybe. But they were both gone for what I think was almost a year.

Also the interviews I have heard with Hogan he says that him and Eric are not in 100% control. It's not like him, Eric and Vince are all sitting in a room together trying to plan the end of TNA. If you have something that points to these three being the only ones in control then please share.

Why bring in ex-WWE stars? Now this is why Eric doesn't think the IWC is all that bright. Their home grown talent had only got them so far. If 100% of wrestling fans wanted to see the best wrestlers go at it ROH and PWG DVDs would be selling out left and right. They would be the companies on Spike and USA. But they are not. If you want to capture the views WWE has you need people they know. You can't expect people with no name value to draw in new viewers.

Also Abyss has the X-Division title is A STORY LINE! Didn't we just see a 10 minute plus X match this past week on Impact? I didn't time the other matches but it felt like the longest match of the night. They will keep being highlighted while they work together to take the title away from Abyss.

For all we know the MEM deal could have been worked out. They could have been working on hand shakes. Which is the way Vince did things for years. So yeah it may take a few times for them to learn not to do things on hand shake deals, it took Vince awhile. Chyna seems to be gone cause of her sex tape. From what I remember people here were throwing a fit cause TNA used her before the tape became public knowledge. So pick on side of the fence.

WCW may have been bleeding money which was due to guaranteed contracts, but they were still pulling in Smackdown like numbers. The problem TNA has now is they need to get their name out there. Sign a deal with Mcdonalds. They need a national company, not the regional deal they had with that chip company. Their billboard plane would have been a good idea if they put them in more then just CT. Put them in big wrestling towns.

You're right, WCW started going down hill around 1998 from what Bischoff said and he believed he was at fault for it in a lot of ways but when he left WCW only got worse, then when Russo came in worse still. Then Turner brought back Bischoff at a salary hike and made him Co-Creative Director with Russo which was a disaster because they had different booking styles. Then when Bischoff left and Russo was dumped Kevin Sullivan came in and was nothing more than a guy to steady the ship rather than turn it around. Then a year later WCW was finished.

Hogan's official role is something as an overseer of creative. Dixie Carter and her hoard are still in control, and Russo is still Head Writer. So full control is not his. Bischoff is Executive Producer so he, technically has no say over what goes onto the television. Though we all know his opinion does hold some weight. So again correct.

Right now the best thing TNA has is Fourtune but that needs fixed. Turn them into the new Horseman, let them dominate, and ride them to the top.

 

[WWEIsLife2]

I can't say I ever watched WCW (not sure it aired in the UK) but it was beating WWE in ratings for a while so it must have been quite entertaining. I believe WCW went out of business due to poor finances or spending to much of Ted Turners money rather than poor ratings or bad TV?

I agree that when Hogan/Bischoff came in they started wasting talent and money as you mentioned, but recently since the rebranding, Impact Wrestling has become much more enjoyable. I for one enjoy Russo's clusterfuck style of booking even though he can sometimes have too many random swerves or bad match endings (See Angle Vs Jarrett fued). However I see bad decision making in WWE just as much if not more and for me WWE is no way near as entertaining in the ring or with promos.

I like Eric Young and his random character.

The X-Division is about to rise again, Abyss is only the means to an end in that when Kaz finally wins the title off him it will be more meaningful then him defeating Amazing Red.

Hardy is gone for now, RVD loses most of his matches against main eventers and is now mid card, while Anderson should win the title soon as he only lost it because Hardy turned up. AJ will be Heavyweight champion again this year and is currently in the biggest stable/group in IW pushing for titles and on TV every week.

IW does fuck up when it comes to storylines, although the return of MEM was only rumoured. I could mention WWE doing promos for Sting for mania before quickly changing it to Taker when it became clear Sting was not going to sign. Perhaps I should mention Kharma getting a major push as a monster before completely ruining her character by ackowledging she was pregnant (by the way I doubt you ever see he in WWE again).

Chyna is getting ass banged in cheap porn so IW is wise not to use her again. I would think IW would get slammed even harder than Chyna if she was to appear again.

The Foley thing is a worry but hopefully the network story is not over.

So there you have it, I disagree with practically everything the OP stated.

On a side note:

Zeven has your account been hacked or do you have bi polar? I prefer the IW loving version of you, not this guy contradicting all your previous posts about loving TNA/IW.

Ok im sorry but the 2-21-11 Promos were for the Undertaker,not for Sting. Also how do you know Kharma won't be back in WWE? Did they Release her? Uh No. They didn't ruin her at all as they decided to tell the real story rather than make something up.

 

[whoopin' ass]

in terms of how things are being run, yes TNA is WCW junior. first off, one thing needs to be made clear - WCW closed down because of the AOL-Time Warner merger. That is the only reason why WCW doesn`t exist today. it has been said time and time again that Ted Turner didn`t care if WCW made money, it was his pet project and it wasn`t going to leave. When the merger happened, Turner wasn`t in total control anymore and the powers that be decided wrestling wasn`t something they wanted and they were going to get rid of it. That is why Vince was able to buy it cheap - they didn`t care as long as it was gone. Look at the deal Bishoff was going to give compared to what WWF bought it for - ther proof is there. So while people like Hogan and Bishoff didn`t close down WCW, they sure did make it a money losing company.

Jump to today and TNA and things are very similar - instead of getting new talent over and making them the main push of the company, we get Bishoff and Hogan on every show. And I understand their approach - if nobody knows person A and person B, no one will care so you need some older, established talent for those people to beat in order to make them look important. Sound logic except you can`t have that established talent walk all over the new guys and then have one of them suddenly pop-up and beat them. It just doesn`t work. Anyone remember Kidman beating Hogan back in WCW? That has been going on too long. Not to say some guys are not fairly established now like Styles but Hogan and Bishoff should not be a part of every second segment on every show. I do like that they are doing with Sting and Anderson, assuming Anderson wins the belt. That is a better way of doing things.

The other big mistake that they are making is trying to get under WWE`s skin. One of TNA`s biggest problems is that they are just not well known enough. Many peope have said that. Instead of wasting money to put up billboards near WWE`s head office, they should have speant the money on commercials to advertise their product. That is probably the biggest mistake TNA is making right now - not focusing on getting their product out to the masses. they may be be well known in Europe but the States is the market they really need to be focusing on and instead of trying to piss Vince off. In that aspect, TNA is not WCW because WCW had the name recognition and the history with the NWA belt. TNA doesn`t have that.

 

[Rayne]

Bischoff is Executive Producer so he, technically has no say over what goes onto the television. Though we all know his opinion does hold some weight. So again correct.

WHAT?!?!?!

Let's clear up this kind of insanity- the executive producer is the one MOST responsible for what's on television. He is the coordinator. He is the guy that is, at the end of the day, responsible for how all the little facets of a wrestling company work together and with each other. He is the guy who goes around to other companies and tries to arrange marketing agreements with them. He doesn't go around and say "we're going to do this, and this guy's going to do this move, and that guy's going to come out to this music", because he is the guy who is the boss of all of the people that are hired to do that. (The executive producer title is often given to an outsized star as a contract move: see Kiefer Sutherland and "24". In this case there are usually multiple executive producers, with a couple acting the role and a couple who just have the title under their name on the sign in front of their office.)

If he didn't have the influence to mold the product as he saw fit, he'd be unable to do his job, and has Eric Bischoff ever struck anyone as a hands-off worker?

 

[mlp420]

TNA will be dead within an year, mark my words, I've tried my best to get into TNA and I just can't. They have nothing interesting going on and if I miss one episode I have no clue what is going on, they suddenly stop pushes more often than WWE does (see the pushes of The Pope and Matt Morgan) The only good thing about TNA is when Ric Flair cuts a promo, if it wasn't for Flair I would say TNA is a 100% failure of a company, but since Flair is there I'll only say 98%.

Really? The "TNA going out of business in a year" line that's been a popular IWC retort for the last 4-5 years despite no one having any evidence to back it up? And you think it's going out of business because YOU can't get into it and they stop pushes? Very insightful.

 

[multiverseman.com]

So many similarities.

The main differences between WCW going under and TNA possibly going under is that this time, it never had to happen.

Sure we can place blame all day long about WCW, but I can give those people the benefit of the doubt. They were, at some point, in over their heads. People forget, there were very watchable parts there towards the end and WCW was getting better. Had Time Warner not pulled the plug, we could very well have seen them battle back within a year or two. At their end, they were pulling 3.5s. Those ratings would beat RAW now. With Booker T & Scott Steiner getting play and things like that triple cage, they were on their way.

TNA has no excuse for their failure. All they had to do was buy the Death of WCW. Hell, they could've just taken a business class or two. Or they could've just asked somebody off the street with common sense. My grandma could've told them that you don't throw good money after bad. You also don't hire the architects of a previous failure.

 

[Megadeth]

Just out of curiosity, how many of you actually were watching WCW prior to Eric Bischoff and Hogan coming in? How many of you only know of what "killed" WCW from the WWE DVD?

It seems like most people think WCW was this great, successful company then Eric Bischoff and Hulk Hogan came in and destroyed it. And every 6 months or so people want to come in and complain about this, and I have to come in here and explain the real facts. The reality is WCW was loosing millions of dollars before Eric Bischoff took over. There was no Nitro, they only had WCW Saturday Night, which was recorded in a Sound Stage smaller than the Impact Zone. They were struggling to sell tickets to shows, and lost money every time they did a show. PPV buy-rates were at a low.
WCW never turned a profit until 1995, about a year or so after Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff took over. Nitro was Eric Bischoff's idea, and TV ratings went way up from Saturday Night. PPV buy-rates started to go up again, peaking in 1997 with Starrcade, with most shows still staying strong through 1998. It was in 1998 when Time Warner started to get involved, forcing WCW to become more "Family-Friendly" and it was Time Warner's decision to add Thunder, while at the same time not letting them hire a new staff for it. And not suprisingly it was around this time WCW started to go down hill. And while ratings and buyrates did go down hill some, they never had that huge drop until the end of 1999 when Eric Bischoff completely lost control of WCW and was forced out.

So what did Hogan and Bischoff really do to WCW? They took a failing company, that was never meant to be a success, and made it one, only for the execs to come in and kill it. Did they make some mistakes along to way? Of course, the creative control clauses did hurt them some, but overall Bischoff and Hogan did far more good for WCW than bad. In fact, if it wasn't for Time Warner/AOL not even being willing to show wrestling on their networks anymore, Bischoff would have bought WCW, and I truly believe it would still be around now and there would not be a TNA. So if you want to complain about Hogan and Bischoff being the ones who killed WCW, do a little more research first. While obviously every source is going to be biased in some form, don't just take the WWE POV as the unquestionable truth. Read Eric Bischoff's book, watch some of the shoot interviews with guys like Kevin Sullivan who were in the know of what happened at the end of WCW. Or even the Vince Russo ones, and then between all of those along with what was on the Rise and Fall DVD you should be able to get a better idea of the real truth. Because like it or not, had it not been for Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff, WCW would not have ever mattered as much as it did, and would have died off much sooner than it did.

And so if Hogan and Bischoff are doing what they did to WCW to TNA, then that only means that they are in the process of growing it into a success. It may take a while longer to do it, since they are working with a smaller budget, not to mention the economy was much better back in the 90's than it is now, but I think they are on the right track to make TNA a success, and I personally have been enjoying it more than Raw for quite sometime.

 

[whoopin' ass]

if i remember right, executive producer is a meaningless title in movies. usually it it is just someone whose name gets atteched for marketing or such - think "wes craven presents" for all those movies where he had nothing to do with it. in tv, it is the opposite. usually the exective producer has the final say or, in the case of Sutherland in 24, is so vital to the show that they have say over the character and are therefore given the position. if Bishoff is the executive, he does have some say. but again, how do we know if it is true or not? both him and hogan have flipped back and forth between saying they had some input and that they were just talent like everyone else. you don't really know.

ultimately what i think is going to happen is that ROH is going to sneak up and replace TNA as the wrestling alternative. then TNA might get their act together and we will see them and ROH fight it out instead of TNA tring to take down wwe, which would probably be the best thing all around since it will force both TNA and ROH to up their game. it is really simple - quit trying to take down wwe and be the best company you can be. if you are really good, you will become that competition to wwe that you want to be.