Was Taz Ever Legit Tough or a Big Fraud?

[Mouthy Idiot]

Ok well I remember when Taz was in ECW and he was like a legit "killer" bad dude from the streets. Had that Mike Tyson intensity. Of course wrestling is scripted so not all the guys are tough but I really wonder about Taz. I know his reputation was pretty good back in the day but in recent years and especially seeing how he ended up im beginning to wonder if he was a complete fraud.

Reason 1 is I heard from a New Jack shoot that one time in ECW in the locker room , Rob Van Dam walked up to Taz and told him to pick a hand and Taz refused so Van Dam smacked him anyway and Taz stood there and did nothing. Then Bob Holly said in a shoot that WWE removed Taz from Tough Enough and put Holly in there as a trainer because they were afraid Taz was gonna get his ass kicked. I remember Taz on Tough Enough being the mean guy that nobody would talk back to. I remember like season 2 I think some young dude was talking in his audition tape about how he wasnt scared of Taz and they had Taz walk up to the dude and get right in his face and basically dare the dude to mess with him, the dude backed down big and Taz looked legit then.

I know Taz also had a training center back in the day and he had a amateur background in some combat stuff. The fact is hes a short guy and his career was probably ruined by his height. But I see how goofy and lame he became as a commentator in WWE and TNA. Paul Heyman had a promo with Vince back in the early 2000's where he shot on Vince and Taz right there in the ring. It made Taz look so bad. Anyway my point is I wonder if Taz was a big fraud who talked a big game and wasnt very tough or maybe some of these stories are misconstrued. I wanna know the real story on Taz. Is he legit badass tough or a big fake?

 

[nightmare]

I wouldnt rely on much of what New Jack says. He will do damn near anything for attention. Bob Holly has some more credibility in my eyes, but I cant really believe that would be a reason to pull him from TE. He might have been pulling the guys leg or maybe halfway serious hinting toward some inside joke among the guys about his height. Who knows.


Which brings us to the height comment. I dont care how tall you are- does not mean you are tougher than a smaller guy. In fact, the bigger guys are usually *****es. Tall, muscular gym-rats who have likely never really fought someone- run there mouth quite a lot. Just look at MMA. Some of the smaller guys are the most dangerous. My point? The Gracie family. Go back and watch some old matches where they completely dismantled guys that were bigger, stronger & looked mean. They had their asses handed to them. The smaller, tougher, more skilled guys can destroy a bigger opponent who 'thinks' they are a tough guy.


Tazz being a 'goofy' commentator in TNA is just a result of him being older, not an active wrestler & having fun with his job. It does not mean he is\was a pussy or not tough. Im sure the guy is lighthearted & likes to joke around- but he would hurt you. The man has a pretty good background in Judo. Plus if you have doubt on ability- look at the way he executes some of his moves. Crisp & powerful.


Is he the most dangerous guy on the planet? No. Can he handle himself in a legit fight? More than likely. Is he a tough guy? Considering he has come out of some brutal battles still walking on his own- I would say yes.

 

[justtxyank]

This is a nuanced question.

He was a legit fighter in the sense that he had a judo background. It's widely accepted that he bought into his booking and took himself too seriously, buying the hype that he was this baddy who could whup errbody. In reality he was tough, but there are DEFINITELY tougher guys out there.

 

[fenderjapan]

I think there is a third option here...he may not be the toughest guy in the world, but he is an entertainer and a pro wrestler and he did a great job at portraying an intense tough guy wrestler. Even if hes not the ultimate tough guy that doesn't make him a fraud, it makes him good at his job!

 

[nightmare]

There are also varying opinions on what 'being tough' is considered.

People often mistake intimidation for toughness. Someone can look mean & scary, but may be completely soft hearted. The big guy who runs his mouth is intimidating & might seem tough, but likely not a credible threat & can be knocked out with a single shot.


Now I say someone who is legit tough would be able to handle himself in a fight. Someone who knows when to stand up & when to back off. Able to take a lot of punishment & keep going. Courage, skill, durablility & endurance type of tough- rather than just looking tough. Someone who is more bite than bark if you will- or maybe a balance of both.


Taz once was dropped on his head in a match & it was bad. Piledriver I think, early in his career. Most guys would have never stepped back into the ring after such a close call injury. Taz walked himself into the emergency room, took some time to heal up & moved on with his career. Thats tough. Remember when HHH tore his quad & still finished the damn match? Thats tough. What about SCSA? I am willing to bet he is a legit tough guy. Terry Funk? Him too. Bruno Sammartino, Harley Race, Stan Hansen, etc.


Those are legit tough guys. Guys that arent tough because they can take a chair shot, run off at the mouth or can lift weights- they are tough because they can take a beating & keep coming. Guys that could legit hurt you.
All those guys would be, IMO, considered legit tough guys in wrestling. They all can take a beating & dish it out. They also know the difference on 'acting' tough and being tough. Just because they have shown to also have a heart or act goofy\funny once in a while- do you consider them to be less tough? Likely not.


Now im sure Taz played his part somewhat over the top at times, but that is what being a wrestler is. Playing up your gimmick & making it as real as possible. That should not take away from any attributes, skills or personality traits that the man has. Im confident that the man can back it up & handle his own if he must. Im also confident that in real life- he doesnt go around boasting or picking fights. Thats not being tough- thats being a loudmouth.

 

[6timehitta]

He could choke people out quite quickly. He was a stocky, powerful, and hard hitting son of a bitch who I think people respected. Was he going to eat half your damn face like Haku or be freakishly crazy like Bruiser Brody? Of course not, but he was respected. Plus like previously stated he has a judo background and I'm sure he is deceptively strong for a "small man", despite him being under 6 foot and about 250 lbs.

 

[Slash-LN]

Wasn't him and Tommy Dreamer that almost got into with Green Day at a hotel around the time Green Day was first becoming popular?
I believe it was and it went like this.
GD: "There's three of us and two of you."
Taz: "There aren't enough of you."
If he was willing to get into a fight with less people on his side and back up what he had to say then I would say either he's tough or crazy.
Sure he's kind of a goof now but he's aged and matured. He probably doesn't feel the need to come off as a tough guy. Same with Meng. I'm sure he's still tough as hell but he doesn't have to constantly prove it.
I do remember a shoot that Damien Demento did where he called out Taz and his toughness though. Damien is bitter though so it's hard to take him seriously.

 

[Brewski]

He was short but thick, I would consider him pretty intimidating. I can't really say how "tough" he was but the match between Bam Bam tells me enough about his physicality. It was a brutal match and I can't take anything away from him.

 

[GameOver]

you only have to watch the Legends of Wrestling rounds on youtube to know the answer, he is tough but he is not a mean person nor did he ever seek out trouble, in the ring he could take it and dish it out be he was of the mindset we aren't here to kill each other, we are entertainers and should be having fun first and foremost

So the answer is yes

And do some people forget b4 Angle came to wrestling Taz was wrestling with a Broken Friggin Neck and then walked into a hospital to seek attention, if that aint legit tough i don't know what is.

 

[Mitch Henessey]

First and foremost, I wouldn't believe anything that came out of New Jack's mouth. The guy is a shameless attention ****e, and he'll say anything to create some buzz.

Others already touched on it, but I feel the need to throw in my two cents. I think some fans have trouble separating fiction from reality. Don't be fooled by what you see on TV, because I'm sure the wrestlers are more than capable of defending themselves in real life. Robbie. E would put up a fight, if he had to defend himself, and I'm sure Bully Ray wouldn't start blabbering about his "Twittah Machine," or his calves if you challenged him to a fight. I've heard the same complaints about Daniel Bryan before. If you push him, do you think he's just going to stand there, and scream "NO, NO, NO"? I highly doubt it. In the end, simply assuming everyone's not tough, because of what you see on TV is foolish, and it just sounds like tough guy internet talk.

As far as Taz goes, why wouldn't you buy into him as a tough guy? He never came off as a whiny and insecure man with a Napoleon Complex, because he had the perfect look, and more importantly, he could back up his words in the ring. Standing toe-to-toe with Bam Bam Bigelow is a prime example of this.

Taz's comedy doesn't bother me. He's an older guy now, and he's not an active competitor anymore, so of course he's going to take a more lighthearted approach at life.

 

[Doctor Awesome]

I have to start by agreeing with most on here and say anything out of Jack's mouth about another person is slightly suspect. That is always a case of him selling the gimmick, shoot or not that he is the toughest guy alive. Moving on, anyone that has had any kind of extended career in pro wrestling is legit tough for the simple fact that working hurt year round and performing at a high level earns you that distinction.

When I was in college and looking into dojo's while on my summer breaks I wanted so badly to join the team taz dojo. I loved the style and heard he kicked your ass from pillar to pillar, but did it in all the right ways. I went to Johnny Rodz gym as well, and he validated everything about Peter Sinercia that we all have seen, heard and assumed. He said he was equally tough mentally and physically. Did he sell the gimmick? Of course, that's how you become a star and make money. I remember on the rise and fall of ecw dvd or the forever hardcore someone saying that he mellowed out considerably after getting married and starting a family, as most men do (or at least should) as it's a sign of growing up. Whatever the case, we have never heard stories about anyone kicking his ass...

 

[vampxx24]

I wouldnt rely on much of what New Jack says. He will do damn near anything for attention. Bob Holly has some more credibility in my eyes, but I cant really believe that would be a reason to pull him from TE. He might have been pulling the guys leg or maybe halfway serious hinting toward some inside joke among the guys about his height. Who knows.


Which brings us to the height comment. I dont care how tall you are- does not mean you are tougher than a smaller guy. In fact, the bigger guys are usually *****es. Tall, muscular gym-rats who have likely never really fought someone- run there mouth quite a lot. Just look at MMA. Some of the smaller guys are the most dangerous. My point? The Gracie family. Go back and watch some old matches where they completely dismantled guys that were bigger, stronger & looked mean. They had their asses handed to them. The smaller, tougher, more skilled guys can destroy a bigger opponent who 'thinks' they are a tough guy.


Tazz being a 'goofy' commentator in TNA is just a result of him being older, not an active wrestler & having fun with his job. It does not mean he is\was a pussy or not tough. Im sure the guy is lighthearted & likes to joke around- but he would hurt you. The man has a pretty good background in Judo. Plus if you have doubt on ability- look at the way he executes some of his moves. Crisp & powerful.


Is he the most dangerous guy on the planet? No. Can he handle himself in a legit fight? More than likely. Is he a tough guy? Considering he has come out of some brutal battles still walking on his own- I would say yes.

as an AVID mma fan i will tell you...that is NOT the reason royce dominated... it pretty well document in mma that royce was doing so well because no one at the time knew brazilian jiu jitsu. royce was doing things no one saw before and caught by suprise.... as the sport evolved, everyone started learning bjj and gracies advantage dwindled and dwindled to as you see in the end of his career he didnt do very well at all. another sign of the sport evolving is int he striking aspect, you had your killers in that realm such as wanderlei silva, chuck liddell who were known to go in their and want to take your head off with a rather "brawler" style....against a modern day top striker which they were considered. such as anderson silva, overeem,jds theywould get their head knocked off as the brawler style is easily countered by a technical style of striking which is why we saw the decline of both.

theres a reason in mma theirs weight classes and why theirs a vast compliant of how big guys really are to what division they fight in. bj penn is going to go down as one of the best mma fighters of all time, but even as that, when he faced gsp and just recentl rory he was wayyyyy too small for them.. at fighting at welterweight(170lb weigh in) bj weighs 168 naturally.... gsp and rory walk over 200 and they had their way with him.... so no that belief is not true.... do you know what would happen if you put cain v or alistar overeem (hws) against a lw(155), it would be horrific. and the whole lesnar getting tapped by a lw thing, the fighter admitted lesnar was not sparring serious and after he caught him offguard lesnar proceeded to toss him across the gym seriously sparring.

onto main topic................. as the last poster said ... is taz as tough as his wrestling persona.....i wouldnt goto that extreme(no pun intended)....taz fully admitts he was scared to death to wrestle angle in his wwe debut...... but taz wouldnt be someone for just a regular person to mess with...and as far as what new jack said.....even if that did happen 1) taz could of just acted professional and not want to cause issues 2) they both knew it was a joke 3)rvd himself isnt a joke, rvd held or maybe still does hold the guiness record for being able to lift 225 while doing a split.

 

[knocturnal]

I say anyone that can get in the wrestling ring and put their bodies through what wrestlers go through have to be tough. Now if you mean tough when compared to other wrestlers I say with his martial arts background and his ability to stretch people out I think he probably is pretty tough.

 

[jmt225]

It doesn't matter if he was legitimately tough or not... Taz made the smarkiest, most cynical wrestling fans alive really believe he could whoop anybody's ass in and out of the wrestling business, despite the fact the man is only 5'8. To me, that's way more impressive then if he would have went on to win some ******ed Brawl for All contest.

In hindsight you can question Taz's legitimacy all you want, but it's still pointless. Anyone watching ECW back then would have truly believed he was the baddest motherfucker on the planet, and that's all that matters.

 

[Ovaltine]

I'd probably guess that he was a pretty tough guy. If you watch his ECW matches it is evident that he had quite an extensive amateur background. However, he did say that during his time in ECW that he never left his apartment because he was afraid of some jackass starting something with him. Does that mean that he was afraid to fight? No. It means that he didn't want to be bothered with lawsuits and constant fighting to prove he was a legit tough guy. There is a true story about Chuck Norris going into a bar and sitting down for a drink and some guy (not realizing who he was) came up to him and said your in my seat. Chuck said "Okay" and moved. After a short while the guy realize who he was and said "My God, Chuck you could have killed me!" to which Norris responded "And what would that have proved?" So, despite the fact that Taz just spoke with RVD over their differences instead of beating the crap out of him doesn't mean he wasn't a legit tough guy. It just meant that he was mature enough to know that there was a better solution to the problem. Also, Taz is in his 40's now and he has a family and I have heard that having his first child REALLY changed him. I have heard the same about this happening to Scott Steiner. Steiner was pretty much feared by everyone in WCW. You want to talk about a legit ass kicker? Steiner was one, but I heard that he mellowed out A LOT upon getting married and having his first child. As for Taz's height being a factor... Well, a good friend of mine owns a Brazilian Jujitsu Dojo and he is only around 5'5 and he is a killer. When I was younger I did quite a bit of martial arts training (one belt away from black at the time) and I sparred with him. Before starting I said do you want me to take it easy on you and not throw things full force(take into account that this was the mid 90's and I had no idea what Brazilian Jujitsu was) he told me to thrown everything full force. So, begrudgingly I obliged him. Well, This 5'5 dude tied me up in a pretzel every time I threw something at him. It was quite an interesting experience. Afterward I said "Damn, I tought I could go anywhere and not have a problem fighting anyone. I guess I was wrong." To that he replied "You still can. The odds of someone who can fight like me looking to start a fight with anyone usually doesn't happen." So, height has nothing to do with toughness. Also, take into account that this 5'5 dude was one of the funniest guys I ever met. No one would have figured that he was a legit killer by the way he acted.

 

[Pedigree1]

Again New Jack is a bitch and ****e whos opinion on well anything dont mean shit. Taz IMO is a legit tough dude. You gotta remember in a match in 1995 this man was spiked on his head and ruined his neck. The man finished the match and walked into the hospital. Taz has a background in Judo and still is pretty stocky to this day.

Yah he has gone a little soft but it happens when you get older. But still i think if you provoked him and he had no choice but to fight you i think you be very sorry u provoked taz. I like his lighthearted attitude now nice to see him calm down quite a bit

 

[nightmare]

as an AVID mma fan i will tell you...that is NOT the reason royce dominated... it pretty well document in mma that royce was doing so well because no one at the time knew brazilian jiu jitsu.

So the reason the family dominated is not because they were smaller & more skilled like I said? You said it was because of BJJ- which is a skill. Used as an advantage to dismantle those that were bigger & considered tougher.

They were smaller.

They were more skilled. (BJJ)


What i said is exactly what you said.

 

[HBsam31]

There are also varying opinions on what 'being tough' is considered.

People often mistake intimidation for toughness. Someone can look mean & scary, but may be completely soft hearted. The big guy who runs his mouth is intimidating & might seem tough, but likely not a credible threat & can be knocked out with a single shot.


Now I say someone who is legit tough would be able to handle himself in a fight. Someone who knows when to stand up & when to back off. Able to take a lot of punishment & keep going. Courage, skill, durablility & endurance type of tough- rather than just looking tough. Someone who is more bite than bark if you will- or maybe a balance of both.


Taz once was dropped on his head in a match & it was bad. Piledriver I think, early in his career. Most guys would have never stepped back into the ring after such a close call injury. Taz walked himself into the emergency room, took some time to heal up & moved on with his career. Thats tough. Remember when HHH tore his quad & still finished the damn match? Thats tough. What about SCSA? I am willing to bet he is a legit tough guy. Terry Funk? Him too. Bruno Sammartino, Harley Race, Stan Hansen, etc.


Those are legit tough guys. Guys that arent tough because they can take a chair shot, run off at the mouth or can lift weights- they are tough because they can take a beating & keep coming. Guys that could legit hurt you.
All those guys would be, IMO, considered legit tough guys in wrestling. They all can take a beating & dish it out. They also know the difference on 'acting' tough and being tough. Just because they have shown to also have a heart or act goofy\funny once in a while- do you consider them to be less tough? Likely not.


Now im sure Taz played his part somewhat over the top at times, but that is what being a wrestler is. Playing up your gimmick & making it as real as possible. That should not take away from any attributes, skills or personality traits that the man has. Im confident that the man can back it up & handle his own if he must. Im also confident that in real life- he doesnt go around boasting or picking fights. Thats not being tough- thats being a loudmouth.

This is one of the best descriptions I have read on this forum. The part about Taz being dumped on his head bad, finishing the match and then taking himself to the ER really stands out to me. That is tough. Like nightmare said, I am sure Taz over played his gimmick at times, but that is what wrestlers do and what makes them stand out. There is no doubt in my mind though that Taz and most other wrestlers are tough. Just the fact that they wrestle night in and night out IMO makes them tough.

 

[Just Do It]

All wrestlers are tough compared to a regular guy. However Taz did have some formal training in certain martial arts, so I dare say he could handle himself against many.

RVD by all accounts did him him a good smack - however RVD is fucking legit by al laccounts - you've never heard of a story of somebody being a dick to Rob and getting away with it.

 

[BaconBits]

So the reason the family dominated is not because they were smaller & more skilled like I said? You said it was because of BJJ- which is a skill. Used as an advantage to dismantle those that were bigger & considered tougher.

They were smaller.

They were more skilled. (BJJ)


What i said is exactly what you said.

In actuality, the early (pre Zuffa) UFC's were funded in large part by the Gracie family. The made damn sure that Royce was going to have plum matchups and would look good. The shows were basically infomercials so they could sell you on their Gracie bjj system. And it worked in spades, too, because Gracie bjj schools are rampant and still really well attended, even though there are better trainers of jiu jitsu than the Gracies.

Think about it, as soon as the opponents had even passing knowledge of bjj, Royce stopped competing in the UFC and went over to Japan to armbar a bunch of kickboxers.

On topic, Taz is probably tough. Of course, there's a possibility that he isn't. I'm not going to obsess over it like an irrelevant New Jack, though.