Vote CM Punk

[One Punch Doug Crashin]

No, Crashin, it's because you're wrong and I'm trying to save what little reputation you have.

I don't think I even had a reputation to begin with.

 

[The Doctor]

Better a slightly bad reputation than a completely horrible one.

 

[Razor]

Lulz.

 

[Tenta]

I vote Punk, if you vote Andre. Win-Win

 

[The Doctor]

I was debating Wight/Andre in my head just before you posted that. Andre would probably win, though I like Wight. Father vs. "Son"...I honestly mtfo'd at this match.

 

[klunderbunker]

Well, I watched the match and I was right with my suspicions (and yes I know JMT likely knows already what I'm about to say): Great Antonio simply stopped cooperating. Pay attention to some of the shots that he hits on Inoki before Inoki beats the crap out of him. Very clear that they're legit as I'm sure you know.

Now that being said, what would you expect Inoki to do? He's in a match against a man that could likely rip his arm off (Great Inoki being a legit strongman that could pull buses and trains) and he was being legitimately attacked. He fought back and beat the other man until he was sure that the other man was no longer a threat to him. Now, let's also look at the rest of the match. Inoki did very standard stuff and his opponent stopped cooperating at all. Inoki tried many things and Great Antonio wouldn't do anything. He then attacked Inoki. If you were Inoki, what would you do? If the answer is anything other than running or defending yourself, you're either lying or not telling the truth. Inoki did what anyone would do: he defended himself. Yes it was bad, but he was backed into a corner by a man completely lacking any sort of professionalism.

Now as for his legendary status, keep in mind that any criteria can be used to validate a vote. Something I noticed while watching the match was a match on the related videos link: Muhammed Ali vs. Antonio Inoki. That match/exhibition brought worldwide attention to wrestling. The same can be said for the Wrestling For Peace festival, both of which were major events in wrestling. My point is, Inoki may have been a businessman that pushed himself, but he made an impact on the wrestling world. While he may have been booking himself over such top stars, he was still beating such top stars. Those wins are on his wrestling resume if you will. Punk, while my favorite wrestler, simply doesn't have such things on his yet. To be fair though, Punk is about 31 years old and has a lot more time ahead of him. At the moment though, Inoki's legacy, no matter how much he built himself up, is still too big for a great star like Punk to overcome.

 

[jmt225]

I vote Punk, if you vote Andre. Win-Win

Not only that, but I'll make a post in favor of him, as well, sometime tonight.

And KB, I'll respond to your post a little later when I have some more time on my hands.

 

[klunderbunker]

Gotcha.

 

[Pepe Silvia]

I dare anyone to watch this match all the way through. I guarantee you won't be able to do it, even though it's only 6 minutes long.

[YOUTUBE]9lXAGZtMxU8[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Lee]

I was debating Wight/Andre in my head just before you posted that. Andre would probably win, though I like Wight. Father vs. "Son"...I honestly mtfo'd at this match.

I voted Wight...why? He told me to in Harrods...he was like "Hey mo fo vote for me in the WZ tourney" I said "Show, I'm a G-mod on WZ" he then said "You should be doing this signing instead of me" and was never seen again.

 

[Big Sexy]

You should all just vote Booker T and call it a day.

 

[jmt225]

Well, I watched the match and I was right with my suspicions (and yes I know JMT likely knows already what I'm about to say): Great Antonio simply stopped cooperating. Pay attention to some of the shots that he hits on Inoki before Inoki beats the crap out of him. Very clear that they're legit as I'm sure you know.

Now that being said, what would you expect Inoki to do? He's in a match against a man that could likely rip his arm off (Great Inoki being a legit strongman that could pull buses and trains) and he was being legitimately attacked. He fought back and beat the other man until he was sure that the other man was no longer a threat to him. Now, let's also look at the rest of the match. Inoki did very standard stuff and his opponent stopped cooperating at all. Inoki tried many things and Great Antonio wouldn't do anything. He then attacked Inoki. If you were Inoki, what would you do? If the answer is anything other than running or defending yourself, you're either lying or not telling the truth. Inoki did what anyone would do: he defended himself. Yes it was bad, but he was backed into a corner by a man completely lacking any sort of professionalism.

Bottom line though man, it was a shitty, shitty, shitty match. And unless they were tag or against a top American, most of Inoki's matches were shit.

Now as for his legendary status, keep in mind that any criteria can be used to validate a vote.

Very true. However, I can call out that criteria and show that that's not how other people should look at it, otherwise what they're saying is that they would vote for Eric Bischoff over CM Punk as well, or Mark Cuben over Tim Duncan in a basketball tournament.

Something I noticed while watching the match was a match on the related videos link: Muhammed Ali vs. Antonio Inoki. That match/exhibition brought worldwide attention to wrestling.

Very true as well. But, that match as well was shit. All it was was Inoki laying on his back, kicking Ali's legs. It brought World wide attention to the sport, sure, but I don't think many people took it seriously since it was such a joke of a match (and very clearly fake).

The same can be said for the Wrestling For Peace festival, both of which were major events in wrestling.

Also true. Like I said... Inoki was a wonderful business man and did a ton for the business. I respect the fuck out of him for that (plus what he did for MMA). Not enough though to vote for him over a MUCH superior wrestler.

My point is, Inoki may have been a businessman that pushed himself, but he made an impact on the wrestling world.

Yes he did, and I respect that. However, my point to everything is that, that does not make him a great professional wrestler, as everyone seems to believe he is.

I have no qualms with your logic, KB. At least you're speaking truth, unlike some others who spout off bullshit when they have no idea what the fuck they're talking about.

While he may have been booking himself over such top stars, he was still beating such top stars. Those wins are on his wrestling resume if you will.

I know, and if somebody is voting strictly off kayfabe, I have no argument for Punk. I can and have admitted that.

Punk, while my favorite wrestler, simply doesn't have such things on his yet. To be fair though, Punk is about 31 years old and has a lot more time ahead of him.

Don't you think though it's simply incredible what he has been able to accomplish at such a young age, and more than justifies reasoning for someone like me to vote him over a wrestler who was much more of a business man than he was a professional wrestler?

At the moment though, Inoki's legacy, no matter how much he built himself up, is still too big for a great star like Punk to overcome.

His legacy is great, but it's as a business man and someone who squashed his opponents and was carried in tag matches. That's his legacy to me, and I absolutely cannot vote for someone like that over the caliber wrestler that is CM Punk. And I plea for others to do the same, unless you're strictly voting off kayfabe for every single match.

 

[klunderbunker]

Bottom line though man, it was a shitty, shitty, shitty match. And unless they were tag or against a top American, most of Inoki's matches were shit.

I would say that's a VERY broad generalization especially considering the guy he's in there with. Just looking at him and his man boobs that are bigger than Trish's, something tells me that late 80s Flair couldn't get a good match out of him.

Very true. However, I can call out that criteria and show that that's not how other people should look at it, otherwise what they're saying is that they would vote for Eric Bischoff over CM Punk as well, or Mark Cuben over Tim Duncan in a basketball tournament.

Certainly you can. That's the point of this whole shindig. You kind of lose me on the basketball analogy though.

Very true as well. But, that match as well was shit. All it was was Inoki laying on his back, kicking Ali's legs. It brought World wide attention to the sport, sure, but I don't think many people took it seriously since it was such a joke of a match (and very clearly fake).

Hogan vs. Andre was shit and it's the biggest match of all time. Hogan vs. Sheik was shit and it changed wrestling forever. Match quality doesn't mean as much when that many people are watching.

I have no qualms with your logic, KB. At least you're speaking truth, unlike some others who spout off bullshit when they have no idea what the fuck they're talking about.

Appreciated coming from someone of your knowledge.

Don't you think though it's simply incredible what he has been able to accomplish at such a young age, and more than justifies reasoning for someone like me to vote him over a wrestler who was much more of a business man than he was a professional wrestler?

In a world of three legitimate world titles at the fewest and MITB contracts, not really. World titles mean far less than they used to as do most championships. Think about it: Cena has 8-9, Edge has 9, HHH has I believe 12-13? Those numbers are absurd at best and flat out ridiculous at worst. Punk having 3 doesn't mean as much as it would have no matter what he's done so far.

His legacy is great, but it's as a business man and someone who squashed his opponents and was carried in tag matches. That's his legacy to me, and I absolutely cannot vote for someone like that over the caliber wrestler that is CM Punk. And I plea for others to do the same, unless you're strictly voting off kayfabe for every single match.

Some will be and some won't be.

 

[jmt225]

I would say that's a VERY broad generalization especially considering the guy he's in there with. Just looking at him and his man boobs that are bigger than Trish's, something tells me that late 80s Flair couldn't get a good match out of him.

Fair enough. But the majority of them are boring.

Certainly you can. That's the point of this whole shindig. You kind of lose me on the basketball analogy though.

Basically just pitting a great business man who has a HUGE role in the sport against a workhorse player.

Hogan vs. Andre was shit and it's the biggest match of all time. Hogan vs. Sheik was shit and it changed wrestling forever. Match quality doesn't mean as much when that many people are watching.

Well, I'd watch Hogan vs. Andre over Inoki vs. Ali any day of the week, but your point is dully noted.

In a world of three legitimate world titles at the fewest and MITB contracts, not really. World titles mean far less than they used to as do most championships. Think about it: Cena has 8-9, Edge has 9, HHH has I believe 12-13? Those numbers are absurd at best and flat out ridiculous at worst. Punk having 3 doesn't mean as much as it would have no matter what he's done so far.

But what separates CM Punk is this: What long-term indy wrestler from this decade has been able to go to WWE and succeed AT ALL? You cannot name one, man. London and Kendrick are really the only two, and we all saw how they were treated in WWE. The fact that CM Punk had the indy stigma with him, but was still able to accomplish what he has accomplished speaks VOLUMES to me.

 

[klunderbunker]

But what separates CM Punk is this: What long-term indy wrestler from this decade has been able to go to WWE and succeed AT ALL? You cannot name one, man. London and Kendrick are really the only two, and we all saw how they were treated in WWE. The fact that CM Punk had the indy stigma with him, but was still able to accomplish what he has accomplished speaks VOLUMES to me.

Remember who my favorite wrestler is again.

Thing is though, as much as he's accomplished, he's still second tier in WWE even to this day. He's a big deal, but he's still far from what Inoki added to the sport.