Vince's shoot pot-shot to Canadians: "Bret Hart is NOT a National Hero"- He's right

[ThAwRe$tLiNgGaWd]

Here's what I want to do... take a poll from the 34 million people living in Canada and ask them who their "National Hero" is. When the census comes back rest assured that 33,999,992 people will say someone other than Bret Hart. Eh?

 

[Chadmw]

Being a Canadian, and a Bret Hart fan, I never viewed him as a national hero. Was he someone to look up to and admire, sure he was. But I guess it also depends on your defination of a Hero. But the reasone back than he was called and considered a Canadian Hero, was because of his Anti-American / Fighting for Canadians stance his character was taking at the time.

As for Hogan, yes now he is seen more as a reality tv / somewhat washed up wrestler, but in the 80's and eraly 90's he was viewed as an American Hero.

Heck Stone cold Steve Austin was viewed was an American hero when he was feuding with the Hart Foundation

Now as for the moron here who posted that the Americans deserved what happened 9/11, please do not take his opinion as those of most Canadians. 90% of Canadians were just as scared, shocked and angry as most Americans were. Unfortunately you do get the few idiots that like to say things like that. And these idiots are not just Canadians, there were even some religious nut cases in the States saying it was deserved because of all the sinning, blah blah blah

 

[[email protected]]

This is a very interesting thread, and while I haven't read EVERY reply in here, I felt compelled to research it, at least what little I could.

I worked in Canada for 6 months, about 3 years ago. I managed to make a few friends whom I still keep in touch with on a regular basis. So, I called them.

I called 7 people. Out of those 7, only 2 even knew who Bret Hart was. Of the two, only one said he could possibly be considered a hero, to the lunatic wrestling fanatic fringe.

And he is the one who lived in Calgary.

The other one who knew who Bret was, said that he was "only a wrestler" and while yes, it is the habits of Canadians to boost up the famous on their national shoulders, using the word hero might be a little extreme in Bret's case.

Now, that is just 7 people out of millions of Canadians. I am sure they don't speak for the whole of the country. But these are 7 working class everyday jeans and t-shirt wearing guys. you gotta figure if Bret is a hero, its to people like these.

 

[Undar8d]

Vince loves to get his pot shots in against Canada whenever he gets a chance, and he got another dig in on them last night on Raw.

Vince told Bret that despite what Bret thinks and despite what the Canadian fans think, Bret Hart is NOT a National Hero. This is exactly one of the things I have gotten on the Canadian fans for, for several years now with this obsessive nationalist mentality of theirs .... and how anyone who apparently is a celebrity
is all of a sudden hailed as a "Canadian Hero". And that is clearly because the country and its citizens have an inferiority complex with how they are viewed around the rest of the world and is obsessed with its image in not wanting to be viewed as the stepchild of the United States. I don't know if they think America cares how the country is viewed, but frankly we don't.

However, Vince last night attacked Canada's ass-backwards view of treating celebrities as if they are "Canadian heroes" and it's long time treatment of Bret Hart as a Canadian Hero. This was music to my ears. I couldn't believe when I first heard this back in 1997 that Bret did not want to lose in Montreal because he is regarded as a Canadian Hero. I honestly thought this was Bret's preposterous ego in not wanting to lose the title, but apparently he was correct in that this was the way even Canadian professional wrestlers who sign with a national company are regarded up there.

Shame on the Canadian citizens, I suppose, for treating Bret Hart like an actual "Hero" all this time, and feeding the man's ego all these years. And where it's clear that some of this "hero" stuff is starting to die down, it still is apparent to a degree. Especially when there is an unknown wrestler in a mask called the Calgary Kid, never seen before, but decked out in Canadian colors, who can come down to the ring to a standing ovation in a Canadian arena.

I enjoy Vince's little worked shoots. He did it last week when he blasted the IWC for supposedly knowing what is better for business more so than him, and I guess this was this week's little worked shoot comments.

As this is a second-time post that I've seen of you downgrading Canadians, I don't get what you're trying to make out of this. An American disagrees that Canada should not view Bret Hart as a national hero. I should now put shame on myself, because since we're watching a wrestling show, and you compared Bret Hart to soldiers who die every day, I should feel bad.

Bret Hart is no more seen in Canada as Hulk Hogan in America. I don't see Bret Hart as a national hero, but that doesn't matter. Some people will argue that Bret Hart is a national hero. You don't have to try to be superior and bash them. Hulk Hogan dominated back then and made a huge fanbase and now whenever people see him, they cheer. Bret Hart was very dominant in the 1990's and guess what, he was the only dominant Canadian on television. They cheer also.

With that being said, what are your views on Vince's comments towards Bret, as well as the mentality of Canadians in treating Professional wrestlers in a scripted form of entertainment as a "National Hero" compared to those in the Armed Forces, Policemen, Firemen, Doctors, Politicians, etc. ?

Of course the Armed Forces, etc. are national heroes. You sound like we don't appreciate them at all. As people have already mentioned, Terry Fox day, Coach's Corner, Highway of Heroes, etc. are just a few examples.

You are counting Canadians as a whole having the same views, which is in my opinion, stupid.

 

[Cookie]

I'm surprised by the ignorance of some of the comments from both parties in this discussion.

It's not like America is saying Hulk Hogan's a National Hero because here in America were smart enough to know who the real heros are. It can be our parents, teachers, firemen, US Soliders defending our country that's a small example of who real heros are. No disrespect Canada but seriously find a real hero.

We do have real heroes. It's not like Bret Hart is our only hero (and he's not our hero anyways). Just because you don't know who the other ones are doesn't make them any less valid. No disrespect but go find some information about our real heroes. Hopefully you'll see that there are parents, teachers, firemen, soldiers, politicians, humanitarians, etc. honoured here too. It's not a foreign concept.

Vince told Bret that despite what Bret thinks and despite what the Canadian fans think, Bret Hart is NOT a National Hero.

I agree. He's NOT a National Hero. To those Canadian wrestling fans and those inside the wrestling bubble he might be a national hero. I'm a Canadian fan and I don't consider him to be a national hero. So not all "the Canadian fans" think the same way. To Canada as a whole- I assure you he's not a national hero. If people outside the wrestling world do recognize him, which they very well may, he still wouldn't be the first person they cite as their Canadian hero. Hell, he wouldn't even be in the top 25.

This is exactly one of the things I have gotten on the Canadian fans for, for several years now with this obsessive nationalist mentality of theirs .... and how anyone who apparently is a celebrity is all of a sudden hailed as a "Canadian Hero". And that is clearly because the country and its citizens have an inferiority complex with how they are viewed around the rest of the world and is obsessed with its image in not wanting to be viewed as the stepchild of the United States. I don't know if they think America cares how the country is viewed, but frankly we don't.

But why assume that this is how everybody ("the country and its citizens") feels? I'm sure many people are obsessive nationalists (as I'm sure there are many American obsessive nationalists and obsessive nationalists from other countries) and that's good for them, but that doesn't mean all of us spend every waking hour thinking of ways to appear less inferior to the United States of America. It's silly to think that. And it's silly to think that we choose our heroes to create an image that appears more satisfying to the countries who view us because we feel inferior. We have plenty of heroes who people from other countries wouldn't recognize and if we were indeed so concerned about our image, we wouldn't bother honouring those no-name guys, would we? We'd shove them aside for our lavish and much more important celebrations such as National Chris Jericho Day.

 

[Canadian Ninja]

The creator, and his defenders, in this thread is nothing but disgusting display of self righteousness and a Superiority Complex. As a moderator of this site, you show nothing but a complete and utterly low example of this forum.

Now onto the topic at hand;

Bret Hart is NOT considered a National Hero to all Canadians. To those who know of him, very few would consider him a hero and are more inclined to respect him and his contributions to wrestling for Canadians. Yes, during the time leading into the Montreal Screw Job he called himself a "National Hero" and had an ego, but tell me. Does Hulk Hogan not have that very same ego? I remember at WrestleMania 20 when 'Mean' Gene Okerlund introduced Sgt. Slaughter, he was introduced as a 'Real American Hero' when, in reality, he never fought in a war. So, we're bad for calling Bret Hart a Canadian Hero, but its perfectly fine for you sleazbags, insults to Americans, to do so? Talk about a double standard.

Seeing as you so blatantly like to say we don't care about true Canadian Heroes, do you have a day to commemorate a man who with one leg, dying of Cancer, rose awareness for Cancer research by running across Canada?? How about a major highway dedicated to your soldiers who died in Afghanistan? We greatly respect our heroes.

 

[Rip]

Canadians, hold on. Let's take Bret Hart out of the equation for a sec.

Let's address the other point he was making, because I'd like to see your opinion on the matter. Like I said in an earlier post, I don't know about Canadians or the UK, but there are some places that seem like they sensationalize their celebs to the point where they seem like some kind of icon to represent them on the world stage and yes a bit like a hero. It's weird to me, because we don't really do that here in the states.

Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with the thread starter, I think it's silly to just say "Canadian citizens feel this way" unless you've based it on something more than what you see on TV.

 

[The Phenomenal One]

I reside in Houston, Tx. I am an American. The way I see it, if you want to consider Hogan, Hart, Beyonce, Michael Jackson, Brad Pitt, ect a hero to you...then go right ahead. We're all different people. What I consider a hero doesn't have to be what you conisder one. And even though I've never visited our neighbors to the north, I will still say that I highly doubt that every Canadian views Bret as a hero. And even if they did, so what? It's their opinion. Hell there are many singers of this generation that viewed Whitney Houston as a hero. They looked up to her. She was their role model. Nothing wrong with that. It's their opinion.

Alot people viewed Michael Jackson as a hero. (before the media destroyed him) Alot of people in America did that. There's nothing wrong with that. It's their opinion. Then there's Michael Jordan. He was viewed as a hero in America. I just don't think it's right to bash Canada for something that's been going on in America since forever. And a hero is who you want it to be. It's your opinion. There's no law that says that in order to be a hero, you have to be a Doctor or be in the military. If a person has impacted your life in a positive way so much that you consider them a hero, then you have every right to do so. Hell to me, my Mother is a hero. She's not a Doctor, nor is she in the Miliatary. She may not be one to yall but she is to me. The significance of a person shouldn't be bashed b/c I or somebody else don't agree with it.

 

[Hitman_Attitude_Era_Forev]

I love how people who aren't Canadian are debating whether Bret Hart is a Canadian hero or not. Why don't you leave that up to Canadians to decide? He has inspired many people here have been inspired by him. And for your information McMahon was speaking in character! Remember wrestling is scripted? Vince McMahon the person has said he's a Canadian hero. Since when do you believe what you hear on a wrestling show?

 

[psykohurricane]

Vince loves to get his pot shots in against Canada whenever he gets a chance, and he got another dig in on them last night on Raw.

Vince told Bret that despite what Bret thinks and despite what the Canadian fans think, Bret Hart is NOT a National Hero. This is exactly one of the things I have gotten on the Canadian fans for, for several years now with this obsessive nationalist mentality of theirs .... and how anyone who apparently is a celebrity is all of a sudden hailed as a "Canadian Hero". And that is clearly because the country and its citizens have an inferiority complex with how they are viewed around the rest of the world and is obsessed with its image in not wanting to be viewed as the stepchild of the United States. I don't know if they think America cares how the country is viewed, but frankly we don't.

However, Vince last night attacked Canada's ass-backwards view of treating celebrities as if they are "Canadian heroes" and it's long time treatment of Bret Hart as a Canadian Hero. This was music to my ears. I couldn't believe when I first heard this back in 1997 that Bret did not want to lose in Montreal because he is regarded as a Canadian Hero. I honestly thought this was Bret's preposterous ego in not wanting to lose the title, but apparently he was correct in that this was the way even Canadian professional wrestlers who sign with a national company are regarded up there.

Shame on the Canadian citizens, I suppose, for treating Bret Hart like an actual "Hero" all this time, and feeding the man's ego all these years. And where it's clear that some of this "hero" stuff is starting to die down, it still is apparent to a degree. Especially when there is an unknown wrestler in a mask called the Calgary Kid, never seen before, but decked out in Canadian colors, who can come down to the ring to a standing ovation in a Canadian arena.

I enjoy Vince's little worked shoots. He did it last week when he blasted the IWC for supposedly knowing what is better for business more so than him, and I guess this was this week's little worked shoot comments.

With that being said, what are your views on Vince's comments towards Bret, as well as the mentality of Canadians in treating Professional wrestlers in a scripted form of entertainment as a "National Hero" compared to those in the Armed Forces, Policemen, Firemen, Doctors, Politicians, etc. ?

No disrespect to you but i don't agree with you at all. First of all Bret HArt isn'T an National Hero because he made it in the U.S. or anything else relate to his fame and celebrities. He a National hero because of what he stand for and what he great of a role models he is inside and outside the ring. That's why he a national hero, just like Wayne Gretzsky is.

Why is it to bad to treat an celebrity has a national hero? That the question i would like an answer to. Another question i would like an answer to is why do you americans always think that we have a backward mentality because we put athletes on an higher platform?

Finally what makes Politicians national hero. Name a politicians that did anything for america that make him worthy of being name a national hero in the last 50 years? Sure fireman, policeman and something the armed forces can be considered national heroes because they do extraordinary things but if the only criteria for being a national hero is do something brave and selfless then i could be a national hero, just like everybody else in the entire world that actually go out and do something brave for somebody else. My definition of a National hero is somebody that his a great role models for other peoples and Bret Hart is a national hero to us canadian for that reason, because throughout is career, he was a good role models for everybody. He always did the right things for his fans inside and outside the ring and never ask anything in return. He survive a lot of tragedy in his life from losing his brother Owen to his concussions and stroke that almost left him paralysed for the rest of his life. The guy went throught alot and never surrender and fought his way back, that why Bret Hart is a national hero in canada, not because he's a celebrity, not because he's a canadian wrestlers that made it in the u.s but because of the type of men he his and if vince McMahon or any american wrestling fan don't understand that, that's to bad but the main thing is that we backward minded canadians fans understand that and that the only thing that matters.

 

[XgringolocoX]

I think it's funny that the OP is ripping on Canadians for being proud of their country men just like everyother country on the planet is of theirs. This is why Khali is a mega star in India. He's their people, period. Your opinion on whether or not Bret Hart is a hero in his own country doesn't rate Bub.
As an American who LIVED in Canada I think I can say on behalf of my frosty friends the Bret Hart is a recognized hero in Canada. Just like Don Cherry.

 

[Cookie]

Like I said in an earlier post, I don't know about Canadians or the UK, but there are some places that seem like they sensationalize their celebs to the point where they seem like some kind of icon to represent them on the world stage and yes a bit like a hero. It's weird to me, because we don't really do that here in the states.

Do you have an example of someone that fits that description? I'm genuinely curious to know who because then I might better understand how to respond and if I agree or disagree with what you're saying.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

I really don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth, Sidious. I came into this thread and responded to your topic so I expect some semblance of respect from a mod on these forums. If you can find where in my post I said that Bret Hart is our only national hero and screw anyone else, please point that out. You may have a hard time.

Well, I don't care if you appreciate it or not, it's something you are going to have to suck up and live with.

Now, lol, let me get this straight. There was a sentence I placed in bold with your comments. However, there is one word in particular I want to focus on. That word is "only". You said "tell me where I said that Bret Hart is our ONLY National Hero".

I never said that Bret Hart was your "only" National Hero. I said that he isn't a National Hero at all ... Period.

The fact that you can't even take the word "only" out of your comments and actually by doing so admit that you consider him some sort of a hero, is downright laughable.

And for people who claim that I have no right to criticize Canadians for who they consider "Heroes" and who they don't, I don't give a damn, frankly. I can criticize whoever in the Hell I want to criticize. So deal with it.

You don't know anything about our nation, our culture, or our beliefs to come in here and state something you have no knowledge of. You think we appreciate only wrestlers?

Terry Fox. Arguably one of our greatest heroes. We honour him every year with the Terry Fox run to commemorate what he did in his life.

Have you ever watched Hockey Night in Canada, specifically Coach's Corner? I don't think so. After every episode, Don Cherry sits there and they run a slideshow of fallen soldiers and he sits there and holds back tears as he mentions who they are and recognizes them for their ultimate sacrifice.

So don't you sit there and belittle our country for holding Bret Hart as a hero and thinking that we have no respect for people who sacrifice their life for us. This isn't about taking criticism because I can take it, this is about you running your mouth on a subject you have no idea about. Respectfully of course.

I'm not belittling your country. I am belittling your people, and mostly your wrestling fans, like you, for actually thinking Bret Hart is some sort of a hero to your country.

But I'll play your game. You tell me why you consider Bret Hart a "National Hero". And please, when you do so, give me your absolute most compelling case on why you feel he should be a National Hero to the Canadian people.

"Hacksaw Jim Duggan was cheered back in the day for his patriotism, true. He is cheered in the modern day because of his legend status, whenever he does appear, which is pretty much not anymore anyway."

Yah Jim Duggan is such a legend!

I mean he did win the 1988 Royal Rumble!
Or he was WCW TV and US Champion.

That's merit to be considered a legend!

It's great that Sidious accuses Canadians of calling Bret Hart a hero and then he calls Jim Duggan a lifetime midcarder a "LEGEND"

Oh, please. You are one to talk. Take a look at your damn avatar right there, and that is exactly what I mean by Canadians being marks for their country.

You guys have such a massive inferiority-complex with your image, it's pathetic.

Now as far as your comments regarding how I referred to Jim Duggan as a legend ... you are absolutely correct. I referred to him as a legend. I would also refer to Bret Hart as a legend, as well. Obviously, Bret Hart is a far bigger legend than Jim Duggan ever will be, but notice how I didn't refer to EITHER of them as a "hero"? Good. Because they aren't.

The creator, and his defenders, in this thread is nothing but disgusting display of self righteousness and a Superiority Complex. As a moderator of this site, you show nothing but a complete and utterly low example of this forum.

Well you can claim that I have a Superiority complex. I say you have an Inferiority complex and obsessing over your image in how you are viewed in comparison to the U.S.

We DO NOT care. Get it through your head. This isn't some damn competition between us. Frankly, in terms of being a World Superpower, there is no comparison, and I think you know that. With that being said, we do not care about you so stop trying to compete.

Secondly, as far as moderating this site-- you are more than welcome to be entitled to your opinion. However, nobody said being a Moderator, you have to be "unbiased" and "not have opinions". Moderators are free to express their opinions, and they are mine and mine alone. They are not Wrestlezone Forums' opinions. They are mine.

As long as my views do not get in the way of moderating, which they don't, then that's something you'll have to deal with. Quit complaining.

 

[Hacksaw Highway]

Man, America is the most nationalistic country in the world. If you ask 100 people from various countries what country is most nationalistic, I guarantee you America would be the hands down #1. As for the whole Canadian inferiority complex, i don't see it, for this reason. The difference between making it big in Canada in whatever your field of entertainment is and making it big in America is absolutely huge. America is such a bigger market, with so many more acts competing and so much more attention placed upon the entertainment, that for someone from a comparatively (population wise) tiny country like Canada to make it big, it is cool for us Canadians. i don't think we cheer so much for Canadian wrestler/athletes/whatever because we are so nationalist and think we're a big deal, I think it's because we realize that for the most part our country is very insignificant to America and most of its citizens, so when one of our countrymen can make some kind of impact on your country, it brings a sense of pride. As one final point, from someone who is a Canadian, I consider Bret Hart a "Canadian wrestling hero" if there is such a thing. By and large, most people I know don't really know who Bret Hart is, he's far from idolized by the masses up here outside of the demographic of wrestling fans.

 

[Rip]

Do you have an example of someone that fits that description? I'm genuinely curious to know who because then I might better understand how to respond and if I agree or disagree with what you're saying.

OK well the first to pop into my head is the band Jet. Now, I'm not saying they're Aussie heroes but I talked to several Aussies (when I was in Fiji of all places) and basically, the way they talk about them it's like they came onto the world stage of rock music and made it big, and that is somehow representative of them. And I remember telling them "Uh... they're like a one hit wonder in the States". I also remember having a similar conversation about Hugh Jackman.

Now I'm not taking anything away from Jet or Jackman, but they act like "They show what we Australians are all about", like that. Whereas, if you get an American band that's world famous like Aerosmith, I don't think to myself "What a legendary American band, I'm proud to have them represent us". I just think "What a legendary band"

Sidious... seriously, no one said you can't have an opinion or be biased or unbiased towards anything, but you mods ARE representative of the forum and you should set an example. That's all.

 

[jrob1113]

Bret Hart could be viewed as a Canadian hero because he was one of the greatest wrestlers in the most important American-based wrestling organization which is enjoyed internationally all over the globe. Americans don't understand this pride because the WWE and TNA, like almost everything else in the entertainment realm, originates and makes the most money on American soil. Lets say, for example, wrestling entertainment was as huge as it is today but instead based in Canada and was predominantly made up of Canadians. Under that reasoning i would agree with the lot of you about Bret not being a Canadian hero. If wrestling was made up of 95 percent Canadians and then one guy, say Hulk Hogan, came from Venice Beach California and made an enormous mark on Canadian based wrestling (in which under this scenario Americans and the whole world were watching), then Hogan would be twice the American hero he is today and Americans would be proud of his heritage. That is why i believe Bret Hart is considered a national hero by a lot of Canadians, it has nothing to do with an inferiority complex (which, being a fellow Canadian, i believe a large number of Canadians really do have).

 

[simpsons_fanatic742]

Well, I don't care if you appreciate it or not, it's something you are going to have to suck up and live with.

Now, lol, let me get this straight. There was a sentence I placed in bold with your comments. However, there is one word in particular I want to focus on. That word is "only". You said "tell me where I said that Bret Hart is our ONLY National Hero".

I never said that Bret Hart was your "only" National Hero. I said that he isn't a National Hero at all ... Period.

The fact that you can't even take the word "only" out of your comments and actually by doing so admit that you consider him some sort of a hero, is downright laughable.

And for people who claim that I have no right to criticize Canadians for who they consider "Heroes" and who they don't, I don't give a damn, frankly. I can criticize whoever in the Hell I want to criticize. So deal with it.




I'm not belittling your country. I am belittling your people, and mostly your wrestling fans, like you, for actually thinking Bret Hart is some sort of a hero to your country.

But I'll play your game. You tell me why you consider Bret Hart a "National Hero". And please, when you do so, give me your absolute most compelling case on why you feel he should be a National Hero to the Canadian people.

I won't give reasons because, personally, I don't really consider him a "national hero". I think he's a role model for alot of kids in Canada and he's also very respected. I fall into the latter category. I respect the hell out of him. The reason I responded to this thread wasn't because I necessarily believe him to be a national hero, but rather to defend the people who do. Who are we to tell someone that they shouldn't have Bret Hart as their hero? It's just the same as someone who's hero is a sports athlete. If some kids want to be a wrestler and they see what Bret Hart has accomplished, of course they would see him as a hero.

Look, I don't really want to get into patriotism and the battle of Canada vs. USA because no one would win. Canadians are proud when one of their own become successful, it's no different than any other country. If some people in Canada want to give Bret Hart the title of national hero, so be it. I still fail to see what the big deal is, but apparently you see a problem with Bret Hart being a hero.

 

[Rip]

Hmm, that's actually a good point ^^^^ jrob1113

It's hard for me (and probably most Americans) to relate because everything is on our home soil.

Where is the mecca for music? Here. Movies? Here. Wrestling? Here. I guess I can see that if UFC was in Japan instead of here, I probably would be proud of any Americans fighting there. But since it's here, I don't think "Brock is a great American fighter, I'm so proud" I think "Brock is a great fighter".

That's a good good point. For many things in entertainment and sports, if you haven't made it in America, you haven't really made it.

 

[Platypus Palsy]

I've never been a Hart fan, so I have to say he isn't a National Hero. I also I have to say I'm not living in Canada, so I have no idea what they view as a hero or what makes someone a hero up there. I honestly don't care either. I only started watching wrestling in 98, so I never saw Hart really do much as it was happening.

Was Vince correct, that's obviously up for debate. Personally I feel that he was. A Canadian may disagree, and I think they have the true answer to this. Treating him as a hero is fine by me. As a kid, I felt that Stone Cold Steve Austin was one of my heroes. Then again, I was a child. I still love his character and everything he did, but I wouldn't put it in hero status anymore because of the fact I know it was fake.

 

[CaptainZaltan]

Trolling this topic yet again, Sid? I thought we had been down this road before.

Someone from the only country with it's own chant that's repeated again and again every time someone who even looks foreign enter the ring (U S A !) is hardly in a position to criticize fans of other nations for showing favoritism towards performers of their own nationality. It happens in every country on the planet, and you're repeated denial of this just betrays your bias.

Like other posters here, I've mentioned Hacksaw Jim Duggan, the Patriot, Hulk Hogan, not to mention the re-billing of many Canadian faces as being from the U.S.A. You continue to say that the nationalism that led to those performers popularity and these trends is a thing of the past for the USA, yet reality disagrees with you. It's not even a debatable point; we see American news and American media all the time here, and we KNOW as well as you do that fervent patriotism is alive and well in the States. The U.S.A chants continue to this day, and always will. Because cheering for the 'home team' is a part of sport, period. And that extends to fake sports. You just don't want to be wrong, and will reject any argument even in the face of all logic.

As for Vince's 'shoot' on Canadian fans, every damn time Vince Mcmahon cuts a heel promo you get on these boards blabbing about how he's 'shooting' on someone. Vince is a heel, period. And a moderator on a wrestling board should probably have enough sense to know the difference between cutting a shoot interview and cutting a heel promo. Vince says things to make the crowd hate him. Vince's job is to present the perceived strengths of the faces, often in an exaggerated and mocking manner, and ridicule them. For example, Vince ripped Shawn Michael's about his religious faith: does that mean Vince is an atheist or that Shawn is a priest? Even assuming that every single word Vince says in his heel promos is Vince's actual opinion aimed at belittling or humiliating those that he dislikes, and even if Vince calls Bret Hart a 'Canadian hero', that doesn't make it anything more than his opinion.

I have told you this before: Bret is not on the Canadian dollar, he does not have a statue here, he does not have a park or a road named after him, he does not have a national holiday, and most Canadians (ie: the group that DON'T CARE about pro wrestling) don't know who he is. Bret Hart is a beloved national athlete and entertainment personality. The 'Canadian hero' vision of Bret Hart is a perception in the minds of some wrestling fans in the same way that Hulk Hogan is an 'American hero' to some American wrestling fans. The notion was dragged into the public consciousness by Michael Landsberg (host of Off the Record) throwing it out as against Vince during an interview. Other than a perception in the minds of these fans (and you, who can't get over it) it means NOTHING. If you want to see how we treat heroes in Canada, google 'highway of heroes'. We have as much respect for our armed forces, our policemen, our firefighters, our doctors and nurses as those in your country do. Screw you for questioning that.

 

[Rip]

Trolling this topic yet again, Sid? I thought we had been down this road before.

Someone from the only country with it's own chant that's repeated again and again every time someone who even looks foreign enter the ring (U S A !) is hardly in a position to criticize fans of other nations for showing favoritism towards performers of their own nationality. It happens in every country on the planet, and you're repeated denial of this just betrays your bias.

Like other posters here, I've mentioned Hacksaw Jim Duggan, the Patriot, Hulk Hogan, not to mention the re-billing of many Canadian faces as being from the U.S.A. You continue to say that the nationalism that led to those performers popularity and these trends is a thing of the past for the USA, yet reality disagrees with you. It's not even a debatable point; we see American news and American media all the time here, and we KNOW as well as you do that fervent patriotism is alive and well in the States. The U.S.A chants continue to this day, and always will. Because cheering for the 'home team' is a part of sport, period. And that extends to fake sports. You just don't want to be wrong, and will reject any argument even in the face of all logic.

As for Vince's 'shoot' on Canadian fans, every damn time Vince Mcmahon cuts a heel promo you get on these boards blabbing about how he's 'shooting' on someone. Vince is a heel, period. And a moderator on a wrestling board should probably have enough sense to know the difference between cutting a shoot interview and cutting a heel promo. Vince says things to make the crowd hate him. Vince's job is to present the perceived strengths of the faces, often in an exaggerated and mocking manner, and ridicule them. For example, Vince ripped Shawn Michael's about his religious faith: does that mean Vince is an atheist or that Shawn is a priest? Even assuming that every single word Vince says in his heel promos is Vince's actual opinion aimed at belittling or humiliating those that he dislikes, and even if Vince calls Bret Hart a 'Canadian hero', that doesn't make it anything more than his opinion.

I have told you this before: Bret is not on the Canadian dollar, he does not have a statue here, he does not have a park or a road named after him, he does not have a national holiday, and most Canadians (ie: the group that DON'T CARE about pro wrestling) don't know who he is. Bret Hart is a beloved national athlete and entertainment personality. The 'Canadian hero' vision of Bret Hart is a perception in the minds of some wrestling fans in the same way that Hulk Hogan is an 'American hero' to some American wrestling fans. The notion was dragged into the public consciousness by Michael Landsberg (host of Off the Record) throwing it out as against Vince during an interview. Other than a perception in the minds of these fans (and you, who can't get over it) it means NOTHING. If you want to see how we treat heroes in Canada, google 'highway of heroes'. We have as much respect for our armed forces, our policemen, our firefighters, our doctors and nurses as those in your country do. Screw you for questioning that.

OK but now you're doing the opposite. Sidious is wrong, there is no doubt there, but now you're just saying Americans are just like the way he is describing. You're just going on the opposite extreme. Just because pro-wrestling fans chant USA is a stupid way to gauge it. You say you KNOW that "fervent patriotism" is alive and well in America? Because you get American media? Really? Well show me some clips of whatever you speak of, because we have some people that are blindly patriotic sure, like any country. But for the last 8 years (the Bush administration) people had to whisper being American because of the shame and image the president brought us. The "fervent patriot" is a STEREOTYPE that people like to feed of so when people say "Patriotism is rampant in the US" then people just accept it, but it's load of shit ESPECIALLY in the liberal states!
If YOU want to see heroes honored, look at our memorials because I assure you, we have FAR more than any other country. Not just soldiers, but for firefighters and policemen.

We can't base any kind of national outlook on professional wrestling fans!

 

[CaptainZaltan]

OK but now you're doing the opposite. Sidious is wrong, there is no doubt there, but now you're just saying Americans are just like the way he is describing. You're just going on the opposite extreme. Just because pro-wrestling fans chant USA is a stupid way to gauge it. You say you KNOW that "fervent patriotism" is alive and well in America? Because you get American media? Really? Well show me some clips of whatever you speak of, because we have some people that are blindly patriotic sure, like any country. But for the last 8 years (the Bush administration) people had to whisper being American because of the shame and image the president brought us. The "fervent patriot" is a STEREOTYPE that people like to feed of so when people say "Patriotism is rampant in the US" then people just accept it, but it's load of shit ESPECIALLY in the liberal states!
If YOU want to see heroes honored, look at our memorials because I assure you, we have FAR more than any other country. Not just soldiers, but for firefighters and policemen.

We can't base any kind of national outlook on professional wrestling fans!

You either misread my post, or I failed to write my ideas coherently.

I'm not saying that the U.S doesn't respect it's heroes or that every American is a mindless patriotic drone. I'm saying that those things EXIST in the U.S, the same way they exist in Canada, and that this is undeniable. Sid has implied in the past and in this post that nationalism and patriotism are a uniquely Canadian phenomenon. This is not the case. The 'fervent patriotism' that I describe certainly isn't something that every American displays, and I know exactly what you are saying about the liberal states and such. Still you cannot disagree that such an attitude exists in some States, and is displayed frequently by the 'U.S.A' chants. Xenophobia and Nationalism are a reality, both in Canada and in the US. I pointed this out because Sid has argued here (and the last time he dredged this up) that Americans don't cheer American wrestlers simply based on where they are from, or vice versa for heels, and that Canadians do. This is untrue, and that's what I'm trying to say. Sid's argument was presented in such a manner that refuting it involved pointing out it's inherent hypocrisy.

Note that I also have no problem with people cheering or booing someone based on where they are from. As I said, it's an inherent part of sport that people will cheer the 'home-team' or the person or team that represents them the most. There's nothing wrong with that. Therefore pointing out that this happens in the U.S just as it does in Canada wasn't a shot at the States.

Again, sorry for the misunderstanding. I don't like this topic and I don't like the way it's been phrased with generalizations and blatant biases. It really has no place on a pro-wrestling forum, and does nothing but stir up ill-will and misunderstandings between wrestling fans of different nationalities, as in this case.

 

[ahbooya]

Fair enough, we can definitely agree on not liking this thread. Like I said earlier, everybody here seems to be talking about something different. Nobody wants to answer "What defines a national hero?" and "Who gets to choose a national hero?" Oh well.

I'll define who gets to choose a national hero. People from said country get to choose who national heros are. For WWE fans in Canada, Bret Hart is a national hero, and his accomplishments show it, even if they are scripted. It is however very wrong for a person of another country to state who a national hero is, and quote unquote "belittling" Canada/Canadians is borderline inappropriate and offensive, especially for someone who is a moderator. I know that it's Sid's personal opinion, but last time i checked a forum moderator is supposed to keep people within the rules of the forum and follow them as well.

 

[CaptainZaltan]

Fair enough, we can definitely agree on not liking this thread. Like I said earlier, everybody here seems to be talking about something different. Nobody wants to answer "What defines a national hero?" and "Who gets to choose a national hero?" Oh well.

My take on that is that a National hero has to be a hero recognized by the nation at large, as in by the majority of the people of the nation. National heroes receive honors from the government and the people, such as memorials, ceremonies, medals, dedicated parks or highways or other such symbolic gestures. Even if the majority of the people in the nation don't know the names of every soldier, doctor or firefighter, we know enough about the professions that they are involved in to recognize them as heroic by nature. Bret Hart is a celebrity. While some celebrities can be heroes, there is nothing inherent in celebrity that make it an absolute. To be a 'national hero', a celebrity would need to be recognized and to have heroic virtues in the eyes of the majority of the nation. In that sense, Sid is right to say that Bret Hart is not a national hero. Wrestling is popular in Canada, but not so popular that Bret is known to most Canadians.

It's a subjective thing, of course, and some would argue that Hulk Hogan is a 'real american hero' or that Bret is a 'canadian hero', but personally I disagree in both cases. Either of these individuals may be a personal hero to any given person, but the opinions or feelings of some individuals cannot be read as representative of an entire nation.

 

[Canadian Ninja]

Well, I don't care if you appreciate it or not, it's something you are going to have to suck up and live with.

Now, lol, let me get this straight. There was a sentence I placed in bold with your comments. However, there is one word in particular I want to focus on. That word is "only". You said "tell me where I said that Bret Hart is our ONLY National Hero".

I never said that Bret Hart was your "only" National Hero. I said that he isn't a National Hero at all ... Period.

The fact that you can't even take the word "only" out of your comments and actually by doing so admit that you consider him some sort of a hero, is downright laughable.

And for people who claim that I have no right to criticize Canadians for who they consider "Heroes" and who they don't, I don't give a damn, frankly. I can criticize whoever in the Hell I want to criticize. So deal with it.




I'm not belittling your country. I am belittling your people, and mostly your wrestling fans, like you, for actually thinking Bret Hart is some sort of a hero to your country.

But I'll play your game. You tell me why you consider Bret Hart a "National Hero". And please, when you do so, give me your absolute most compelling case on why you feel he should be a National Hero to the Canadian people.





Oh, please. You are one to talk. Take a look at your damn avatar right there, and that is exactly what I mean by Canadians being marks for their country.

You guys have such a massive inferiority-complex with your image, it's pathetic.

Now as far as your comments regarding how I referred to Jim Duggan as a legend ... you are absolutely correct. I referred to him as a legend. I would also refer to Bret Hart as a legend, as well. Obviously, Bret Hart is a far bigger legend than Jim Duggan ever will be, but notice how I didn't refer to EITHER of them as a "hero"? Good. Because they aren't.




Well you can claim that I have a Superiority complex. I say you have an Inferiority complex and obsessing over your image in how you are viewed in comparison to the U.S.

We DO NOT care. Get it through your head. This isn't some damn competition between us. Frankly, in terms of being a World Superpower, there is no comparison, and I think you know that. With that being said, we do not care about you so stop trying to compete.

Secondly, as far as moderating this site-- you are more than welcome to be entitled to your opinion. However, nobody said being a Moderator, you have to be "unbiased" and "not have opinions". Moderators are free to express their opinions, and they are mine and mine alone. They are not Wrestlezone Forums' opinions. They are mine.

As long as my views do not get in the way of moderating, which they don't, then that's something you'll have to deal with. Quit complaining.

Listen you inbred munroe doctrine pea brain. Taking pride in your country and countrymen IS NOT SHOWING AN INFERIORITY COMPLEX. It shows that you take great pride in your country. Do you take pride in being American? Do you take pride in your celebrity level countrymen? If you said yes to any of those, then using your very own arguement, you have an inferiority complex. As a moderator of several other sites, you are to follow the rules and 'belittling' someone is AGAINST THE RULES. For a moderator, you sure are an idiot. Yes, we wrestling fans take pride in Bret Hart being Canadian. Just because you are spoiled with so many celebrities being American, doesn't put you on a pedestal of greatness and its Americans like you that the World hates. I have no issues with any country, I have an issue with inbred morons like you. And if Vince had a legit issue with Canadians, Edge wouldn't have won 9 World Championships in 3 years.

For any Americans here that do not agree with Lord Monkey Brains, I feel bad for you guys having him as a part of your country. As for Lord Monkey Brains, get of your high horse because you're making yourself look like an idiot. You've been told by both Americans and Canadians that Bret Hart isn't seen as a Canadian Hero, but more of a respected person for what he did.

Lesson for today: Vincent Kennedy McMahon's on screen heel rants are all scripted and predetermined and do not reflect the views of the company or the real man.