Vince not happy with RAW Ratings. Could this lead to even more BIG changes?

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Here's why the ratings weren't as good as Vince thought that they should be: The guys competing for the New WWE championship are the same boring guys that have the ratings in the high 2's every week. CM Punk is fantastic, Ziggler, Kingston, Rey, R. Truth, The Miz, haven't inspired people to watch in years. You can't undo 4 or 5 years worth of mediocrity in two weeks.
 
The people who begged and cried until they got their way finally got it at MITB and "apparently" even they didn't watch afterwards.... interesting.... I was happy to see the nagging fans get their way because I was certain that it would once and for all prove that the good old star system existed for a good reason.... It's funny, people say that the low ratings aren't because of the Punk angle... Wonder what they would have said if raw had have garnered a 5.0 rating??? Face it you (Cena and The Rock suck but Zack Ryder is the most entertaining man ever) "fans"... You just had a major FAIL and I, for one, am loving it.
 
it doesn't help that aside from the opening and closing segments of RAW, the show was extremely uninteresting. they have to realize that one big angle isn't going to pop them 4.0 ratings. build interest in other divisions. and then freak out if you dont get the ratings you expect.

This is the only post you need in this thread. Itsums it up perfectly. Even the first 5 minutes of RAW were extremely unimpressive. Vince was boring, uninspired...it was a total letdown right from the beginning.

Without HHH at the end, I'd have said it was one of the more forgettable RAWs of the year.
 
Here's why the ratings weren't as good as Vince thought that they should be: The guys competing for the New WWE championship are the same boring guys that have the ratings in the high 2's every week. CM Punk is fantastic, Ziggler, Kingston, Rey, R. Truth, The Miz, haven't inspired people to watch in years. You can't undo 4 or 5 years worth of mediocrity in two weeks.

I can't wait until Rey retires...he's such a boring character. And as you mentioned, here's the problems with the other guys.

Ziggler: Actually, this guy is decent, I'd like to see him be given a chance, but everybody knew he was going to lose since he's holding the IC belt right now.

Kingston: I don't care how good he is in the ring, it hurts my ears when he opens his mouth. I wish he'd go back to Smackdown.

Truth: I don't believe his character now, and I didn't like his character before. Yes, I'm impossible to please when it comes to R-Truth. Great, he "gets got" by every "Jimmy." Wow, that's going drive PPV buy rates, huh.

Miz: So boring now. So very boring.

They seemingly have a really good opportunity to push Alex Riley, who in my opinion is still fresh, and they waste it.

And so what if ADR won the MITB match...the guy is all they have left on RAW after Cena. Even after the PPV win they're burying him. He was better off on Smackdown.

I still don't kow what Vince is doing.
 
I don't see what kind of numbers Vince is expecting to throw up anymore... the big 4.0 or 5.0 numbers just aren't there because there aren't nearly as many wrestling fans. Fans born in the 80s and early 90s have grown up and not as many have stuck around, particularly when the business itself decided not to cater to them, leaving only the real die hards, who coincidentally have also turned into the IWC for the most part. A lot of them are streaming, getting results online, downloading, and dvr'ing. So there is a part of your audience not watching at a time to affect the ratings, and the kiddies, how many are even allowed to stay up till 11 to watch wwe? Summer or not the john cena crowd are hardly up watching wrestling late. The numbers just aren't there, the fact that 4 million people tuned in to watch a crappy tournament, a boring Mr McMahon (who btw was supposed to be gone as a character years ago, yet here he is back again), and like a previous poster said, HHH coming out was the only big surprise that made it somewhat memorable.
 
The people who begged and cried until they got their way finally got it at MITB and "apparently" even they didn't watch afterwards.... interesting.... I was happy to see the nagging fans get their way because I was certain that it would once and for all prove that the good old star system existed for a good reason.... It's funny, people say that the low ratings aren't because of the Punk angle... Wonder what they would have said if raw had have garnered a 5.0 rating??? Face it you (Cena and The Rock suck but Zack Ryder is the most entertaining man ever) "fans"... You just had a major FAIL and I, for one, am loving it.

How old are you exactly? Cuz I shudder to imagine what kind of taste you have. Are you one of those people that justifies going to see Twilight movies because they do huge box office? I can't think of much worse than John Cena's personality and I've been a fan for years. He's literally a black hole and I don't want to watch a program where Cena is money and CM Punk isn't. I'd just as soon quit watching. Yet you "love" it?

That said, I can't make any excuses for the rating. It's just baffling. I'd love to see a quarter hour breakdown. I'm sure they'll shift direction and I'll go watch something else. Won't be the end of the world?
 
A 3.2 post MITB Raw, with the effort put into the build is alarmingly bad. It is NOT moderate, as a poster above wrote, lol. For the first time ever (?) raw went into the 2's on two occasions recently. The holiday and game mean ziltch if you compare to 2010 and years past.

The fact is CM PUNK does not draw. He doesnt look believable or athletic at all. Since his well done promo (content was GREAT delivery very good so if others were allowed to deliver the same CONTENT would punks promo be that great?) the ratings have TANKED. Yes he is a great commentator, ok in the ring if one can get beyond his look and very good on the mic, but should he be compared to greats like Stone Cold? NO

The Rock was right, he will draw more which is why he is in the main event.

For those that somehow convinced themselves ratings mean nothing.. ratings are what keeps tv shows on tv... Yes they mean EVERYTHING.

That said, I can't make any excuses for the rating. It's just baffling. I'd love to see a quarter hour breakdown. I'm sure they'll shift direction and I'll go watch something else. Won't be the end of the world?

The quarter hour breakdowns are out there and they tell the truth.

CM PUNK doesn't draw. The FIRST hour opened with LESS than the finish. Obviously any punk fan would tune in right away to see what is going to happen w him and the championship.
 
The quarter hour breakdowns are out there and they tell the truth.

CM PUNK doesn't draw. The FIRST hour opened with LESS than the finish. Obviously any punk fan would tune in right away to see what is going to happen w him and the championship.

CM Punk wasn't on the show. Was he supposed to draw people to the Cubs game? If not, your point is somewhat moot. How are you gonna judge CM Punk by a show he wasn't even on. What's more, he said over and over again that he was leaving. Vince started the show saying he was through with Punk forever. Then he mentioned that they were crowning a new champ. So this is Punk's fault again how?

Haha @ he doesn't "look" athletic. Who are you, Jim Crocket? What year is this? Who doesn't he look athletic to? Kids are into MMA these days, not bodybuilding. You judge a tough guy by his moves, not by how much his ripples make you wet. Who does have the look exactly? The first hour is supposed to open with less than the finish? That's always how its worked.

I think it's more of an indictment of Cena than it is of Punk. The people wanted to see Punk win, yet this big muppet runs around sticking up for him. Who's the heel here? They made it all about John Cena getting fired and Vince and his decisions.
 
Assuming you know a little about pro wrestling one would think that by now you know not to listen to what a pro wrestler SAYS, lol.. it's a work, as if you dont know. Most tuning in probably expected to at least have a cm punk appearance...after all he was crowned the champion the night before... Contrary to your opinion, most that watch RAW do not spend hours on wrestling forums and therefore wouldn't know about punk being at a cubs game. If they did then forums would have MILLIONS of members not a few thousand, true? As far as 'look' and mma, lol.. thats a joke considering mma fighters are real athletes and YES THEY DO LOOK THE PART. Jon Jones, st pierre, overeem, lesnar, carwin and on and on.. cm punk does not have a look that screams athlete.. say what you want. As a matter of fact mma is dominated by wrestlers and if you know anything about wrestling training it produces gritty tough very legit looking athletes. Like I said in my post above, cm punk is obviously talented, but just hasn't drawn much interest from the mainstream and these past few weeks ratings prove that because they were built around one person....CM PUNK. Ask Vince I'm sure his opinion is the same.

Also, to reiterate... Raw GAINED viewers after Vince said CM Punk wasn't gonna be there and a new champ would be crowned. Again, I LIKE PUNK.. but these are facts...
 
Also, to reiterate... Raw GAINED viewers after Vince said CM Punk wasn't gonna be there and a new champ would be crowned. Again, I LIKE PUNK.. but these are facts...

Might be 'facts', but you dug yourself a hole with what you said. You said that the majority don't see forums and therefore wouldn't know Punk was at the game. You can flip what you said and say Raw gained viewers after Vince said Punk wasn't going to be there and a new champion crowned, because they were expecting Punk to do something during the show. They watched waiting for Punk before the HHH swerve.

The problem is Vince sees rating through his top story plot, forgetting that there is nothing wrong. It's the weak midcard, undercard and the joke of a tag division that is not interesting and like someone said you could watch the beginning of Raw and watch the end without missing anything.
 
I agree with what deanandterry has said on the first page. It basically takes time to start getting huge ratings. They aren't going to happen overnight. This CM Punk angle might be a part of the big picture, it could be the point after which the wheel starts turning in the right direction all over again. But it won't happen overnight. There has been no wrestling angle, no surprise comeback, absolutely nothing that has resulted in a 4.0 rating or beyond. Tell me guys, how much did Bret Hart returning to a WWE ring after 13 long years draw? How much did Rock coming back to the WWE after 7 years draw? Just a bit more than what Mr Punk did and that too at the time WWE is at it's hottest. The more important thing is how much the rating increased as compared to last week. That's a 0.3 which indicates that people are getting more and more interested in this angle by the day.

If I were Vince, I would not really change much around. I'd sure as hell not make any changes to the plans that have been made for this angle. Because if it ain't broke, why fix it?
 
i think more that Punk was a good wrestler and a lot of people liked him..but i think that they now made him a star.All this situation about him leaving helpt to create Punk being more famous.So i think it was a smart move.The only thing what isnt working is putting on a good show.but they are trying,i think the last 3 Raws and MIB where simply great.But they need to keep on doing this so that new fans also want to see it.


Like I sayed before...they away the Divas..nobody really cares about them,there only shouting like hell.Let the Divas fight in Smackdown and Superstars or something like that.Then you have more time for new angles and longer matches.
 
Every year is the same.. Summer starts, ratings fall, people complain it's the WWE's fault.
Does no one know that a lot of families go away on vacation?

I can honestly say I am not even a little shocked that the ratings were low. Not in the least. If anything, I'll be shocked if they go over 5 any time before August.
This can't be blamed on VKM, WWE, UFC, TNA, NASA, or any other combo of letters I can think of at the moment.
 
Every year is the same.. Summer starts, ratings fall, people complain it's the WWE's fault.
Does no one know that a lot of families go away on vacation?

I can honestly say I am not even a little shocked that the ratings were low. Not in the least. If anything, I'll be shocked if they go over 5 any time before August.
This can't be blamed on VKM, WWE, UFC, TNA, NASA, or any other combo of letters I can think of at the moment.

This is what I was getting at in the first post. VKM has to realize that you aren't going to have a huge following in the summer months because you're core group of viewers, kids, will want to enjoy not having school as much as possible. I doubt a lot of them would want to sit in front of a TV when it's 85 degrees outside. If Vince can keep this going until September and ride the low ratings, he'll see them come back up again.

The problem I have is that there had been numerous times where it was reported that a ratings drop would cause Vince such paranoia that he would keep creative in a strangehold and never let them develop a storyline further.

If RAW's rating keeps going this way up until SummerSlam, I'm afraid we could see a Cena/Punk rematch and Cena getting the strap back.

I wish they would allow other storylines to develop. Like Mark Henry and Big Show. Okay, they hate each other. But why do they hate each other? They have been trying to do this with Riley and Miz, but they aren't that good to watch in the ring. Not sure what happened to Miz, but he's tailed off since he lost the belt.

It's not like the 80s where you can have one guy hate another for no reason. Wrestling fans are smarter than that.

Right now it's Cena, the guy he's in an angle with and then everyone else.

And to the posters who are bashing the others for "panicking;" Personally, I'm not panicking. I thought it would be an interesting topic to talk about. And at 7 pages in a day, I see it was well worth it.

It's called a discussion. If you don't like the fact that we are talking about it, then stay the F out.
 
I haven't followed the WWE since 2003, but have recently been sucked back in once I heard The Rock was returning. After I realized it wasn't permanent, I stopped watching until I heard about the Punk angle.

The fact of the matter is that WWE lacks big name appeal and the roster split (I never understood it) doesn't help things. Cena and Orton should be on the same show and should be this generation's Stone Cold-Rock.

WWE just seems to have gotten too gimmicky. Whole PPV's devoted to hell in a cell and TLC? Raws where fans vote? The 8-man raw tournament was all you needed to know about the lack of big name appeal in wrestling right now. None of those 8, with the exception of The Miz, are really world champion worthy.
 
@closet_fan - do you really think Vince doesn't know how the summer effects TV ratings? I don't think he was pissed that they didn't get a 4 or 5 rating. But it is realistic for him to be pissed that they only got a 3.2 while running one of their most hyped storylines and coming off one of their best PPVs.
 
The reason the show wasn't a draw was because big pops in rating don't happen overnight. Raw is gonna need to sustain the level of awesomeness its been at for at least 4 months before it reaches a 4.0 Austin the biggest draw ever was gold for around 8 months before the ratings showed and Punks gonna be no different. Besides one program alone aint gonna do it they've improved but they've got a long way to go. IMO
 
I don't want to say ratings are meaningless because when rock returned they shot up to a 4, but at the same time dvr has killed the ratings system. American Idol and DWTS get huge ratings because people are stupid, but you can look at the ufc ratings and see there's not much difference between them and any other show. Whenever ufc has a fight on tv they get 3s and sometimes 4s as well so it's just the nature of the beast at the moment. If the wwe continues to try and reinvent itself and seriously commit to it then they should see a payoff later this year. For people wondering if vince will panic and go back to the same old formula he's been using remember they were getting low ratings before punk came to the forefront.
 
If anything shouldn't it being summer help the ratings? Baseball's it's only athletic competition in the 18-49 demo

The ratio of baseball fans to wrestling fans is likely 10-2. Baseball still bigger than wrestling right now.

The only ones who still watch wrestling on a weekly basis are the very hardcore fans who will spit in your face if you tell them that another sport is more important to other people.
 
The only ones who still watch wrestling on a weekly basis are the very hardcore fans who will spit in your face if you tell them that another sport is more important to other people.

If you're 8 maybe.. Seriously. Baseball and Football are just as important to most wrestling fans in the States. Hockey is WAY more important to us Canadians. And we all know about Soccer across the ocean..
If there was a Stanley Cup game on a Monday? I'd catch RAW on a reply.
 
WWE has for past several years done everything in their power to make their product as "uncool" as humanly possibly, against all odds, against everything, they have managed to make their show more steril and bland than even the biggest teenybopper MTV reality show out there

What was once the most cutting edge TV show in the world is now the opossite, your sister/niece is watching a edgier product when she tunes into Jersey Shore than you are when you watch WWE

One good angle, with a great performer such as CM Punk who spent the last 2 years being the jobber ****** to anyone, getting beat by Cena on RAW in mere minutes and tapping out to everyone. Remember when Punk was jobbing with his faction to the Big Show?

To the troll who said CM Punk is not a "big star" he is actually right, he is not a big star because WWE has done little to promote him, instead they spent money promoting the likes of Lesnar, Batista, Cena, Orton throughout the years, 4 men where only 1 can barely wrestle and none of them can give a good promo if their lives depended on it.

And now when they finally decide to push a guy who can: Wrestle and Talk, they expect 4.0 ratings and up?

Luckily for us, WWE cannot go back to "Cena overcoming odds!" ratings have in general been on a downward spiral, god knows what their ratings would have been if this CM Punk story wasent here, they would stay below 2.8 for sure.

They pretty much have no choice, they cannot make their product anymore bland and stale and kid friendly, the only thing that is missing is banning physical contact alltogether and just have pillow matches.
 
I'm gonna flip my lid at people if they call this a "failure" because it didn't draw "this rating" or "that buyrate". To older fans viewing this thread, would we consider Bret/Austin a failure?? Sure it was at the lowest drawing 'Mania of all time, and outside of to much for there own good HBK marks, and Hitman haters, I really can't recall too many people calling that match a failure. And here's why:

At that point, Vince McMahon was starting to realize that what they're doing, isn't working. And he had to do something to shake things up. WCW was kicking his ass, and he needed to try a different appproach, Ausitn's rise and the heel turn of Bret was just that very thing. Only Hogan's heel turn the year before, was the only one of the 90's that was more appalling and hateful than Bret's. The WWF was getting interesting in the main event scene again, and bit by bit, things started to happen, The Undertaker was having good matches as champion building up his stock day by day and the Kane buildup began (yeah the feud is basically a self parody now, but back then I remember every wrestling fan I knew being captivated), Shawn's downward spiral which may very well have been real, but made for some VERY entertaining TV, and the formation of D-X. Then it went on and on and on, the chain reaction kept on going, guys like Foley, HHH and a youngster known as The Rock, were all rising in prominence.

When the Bret/Austin double turn began, Raw was averaging in the 2's up and down throughout the year. By January '98, post screwjob, they were well into the 3's. That was nearly 10 months later. My point? It took THAT long to get there.

I don't understand how ever supposed "smarts" like Wade Keller or Dave Meltzer and even the big boss himself Vinnie Mac can expect results after Punk had only really caught fire in recent weeks. Yes, Punk has always been appealing, and unique, and connected with the fans wether they were booing him or cheering him, and always got his charachter over in different ways, he was never portrayed on the "big guns" level until recently. The highest level he was ever built as an equal too was Jeff Hardy.

Now, as for the Pay Per View buys. I hate to break it too most, but the last time a B-PPV increased from a previous B-PPV, with a six digit number (slightly over 100 000), was 2006. Since then the largest B-PPV increase from the previous month is 60 000.

The 10 largest B-PPV buy increases of all time, 7/10 were in the Attitude era, and generally involved Austin, only one was in the last 5 years. (This took me FOREVER to research, this is what happens when you work a front desk and nobody comes in on a horrid humid day).

Despite R-Truth's recent antics and as entertaining as they may be, I don't see it making Capitol Punishment a major domestic success. I'd say at the MOST, 90 000. I think MITB can make 150 000, I would like it to do better, but I'm not holding my breath.
 
@Hitman-HBK. Your right, Attitude did take a while to catch fire but it also highlights a couple of other things; 1) They were fighting another wrestling company, who will they steal viewers from 'x' number of months down the line this time? 2) The Attitude era had several compelling storylines going at any one time, at the moment RAW has one.

RAW cannot expect good average ratings across two hours when people have been trained to only care about John Cena. If they rush Punk back, their chances of botching this storyline Nexus style increases incredibly. Years of reducing the credibility of the IC, Tag and Womens Belts is biting their ass now and ONE feud cannot fix this.

The Summer of Punk is a damn good start but until the whole product gets this creative attention, ratings will continue to be 'disappointing'.
 
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