Vince McMahon does NOT hate Christian!

[Unrated Superstar]

I know there's already a topic entitled "Christian" that discusses Christian's current and future career in general, but I thought it was worth starting a topic to specifically address a commonly believed idea throughout the IWC that I personally disagree with...there are actually a few variations of it that I will list...

1. Vince McMahon doesn't see enough in Christian to make him a main eventer.

2. Vince McMahon is mad at Christian for jumping to TNA.

3. Vince McMahon hates Christian.

Well in my humble opinion, and as far as I can tell, these rumors are BULLSHIT. Actually, 2 and 3 are bullshit, 1 is CURRENTLY bullshit.

First off, let's review how these rumors started. Christian was never pushed very well in his 8-year run in the WWE (I'll list more specifics of that if necessary in further posts) despite being pretty well over with many fans, so then he went to TNA, where he got pushed damn well and had two world title runs with the company during his 3-year TNA career. Then after 3 years left and signed with WWE again. Why is anybody's guess, but you could speculate that he felt he had done all he could do in TNA and felt he was ready to another crack at shining in WWE...or maybe he just felt like making more money. Either way, as soon as the rumors surfaced that Christian's WWE return may be in the works, reports started about Vince not liking Christian that much. They seemed to even continue through after his debut. I haven't heard any of those reports in a while though, and I think it's very telling. Thing is, a lot of members of the IWC are STILL clinging to those rumors.

WHY? Because he's still in ECW within a mere 10 months? Because he's not the captain of his team at Survivor Series? Umm...you do realize he's spent more than half of his ECW career, including the last 4 months as the champion of the brand? How about the fact that he's always been booked as a strong champion and contender, and even recently picked up a squeaky clean win over current unified tag team champion and co-captain of Team Smackdown at Bragging rights, Chris Jericho? Sure, it was on Christian's show, but that only gave Christian a relatively small edge in the match...aside from that, do you realize how big that is? In every match Christian ever had against Chris Jericho before he left for TNA, Christian has been booked as the weaker opponent, win or lose (and mostly lose). But a few weeks ago Christian was booked as a legit competitor against the current main eventer, Chris Jericho. And everyone talks about how he isn't ready to be considered at Edge's level in a feud...why not? If he can beat Jericho CLEAN when he has a pretty substansial history of being booked as the weaker opponent, why not Edge? Their history may be on a larger scale, but I personally don't see too much of a difference. The match with Jericho really clinched it for me.

Vince McMahon does NOT hate Christian. Maybe he didn't see him as legit main event material in the past, but I'm convinced that he sure as hell sees it now. And Vince is NOT resentful toward Christian, nor is he punishing him, for going to TNA. Christian is a valuable asset to WWE, he has the potential to be an even bigger asset, and Vince knows it. If he hated Christian so much or were still mad at him, why sign him back to WWE? I'll tell you why, because despite Vince's ego, he's a businessman. Hell, he resigned Jeff Hardy after Hardy had a run in TNA and made him world champion down the road on three different occasions! And Hardy was a well-documented drug user! But let's not get too far into that, it's just an example.

People jump ship, it happens. If Vince were really mad about it but just had to go ahead and sign him, why have him debut and challenge right away for the ECW championship? There ARE worse places he could be, people! Why not just have him challenge the Boogeyman and then have him lose and eat worms? Why not have him become a crappy late-night talk show sidekick who laughs stupidly every now and then? IT COULD BE WORSE!

The only validity to the rumors this topic is centered around could be that Vince USED TO not be very high on Christian. But have you ever though that maybe, just maybe it's possible that Vince has changed his mind? Vince's company may not acknowledge TNA on TV, but he's familiar with them, to say the least. If he weren't, he probably wouldn't sign as much talent from their company and wouldn't have thrown a fit over the Hogan/Bischoff deal. Christian really showed what he was made of in TNA, and has proved himself even further in ECW.

If you ask me, Christian couldn't have asked to have it better. There's more to becoming successful in the wrestling business than becoming a main eventer or even a world champion on Raw or Smackdown over night. It's about development and buildup just as much as anything. The Great Khali won the world title on Smackdown after a year in the WWE and look where he ended up. Christian came in at just the right spot, not TOO far up on the card, but at the top of ECW, which was a good middle point for him. He had a chance to build up again while getting fairly decent exposure and being booked as a strong competitor. Even if he's not an official "main eventer" yet, I can buy him as one much more easily now than I ever could during his first run. And yes, I do believe Christian has major potential to become a future world champion on Raw or Smackdown, sooner or later.

So I ask you, with everything Christian's done in his run, when you really think about it, how can you say Vince McMahon doesn't like Christian? The way I see it, every reason I hear now is because of some petty nitpicking about a minor setback or flaw in the way he's booked. What can you possibly be thinking when you spread these rumors?

Is there something I missed? If there is, I beg you to let me know.

 

[WWEIsLife]

I agree 100% with you on this, I also too never understood where this Oh Vince hates Christian or he has never gotten a fair shake in the WWE. First off he & Edge were pushed to the moon as the Top Tag Team in 1999,2000,Early 2001. Edge might have the better Singles career of the two but Christian hasn't done too bad either. Christian has been IC,European,Light Heavyweight,and now a 2X ECW Champion. Thats not bad if you ask me and I think he could get a run with the WWE or World Heavyweight Title one day. Why not? Edge did,Jeff Hardy did so why not Christian?

I think too TNA missed the boat on Christian. Yeah he was TNA Champion 2 or 3 times whatever it was but they could done alot with him. So if Vince hated him why did he Resign him?

 

[image1986]

Thank you Unrated superstar finally someone in these forums with some common sense I couldn't say it better myself. Christian is a viable asset to the company. Not everyone who returns to wwe needs to shoot to main event as soon as they debut, thats the logic that causes wrestlers to become stale very quickly. Christian has a opportunity to have a fresh start in ecw. Not only has he become a credible champion but hes has build a fan base and booked extremely well. Throughout his first run in wwe he spend most of his career as heel and a CLB where he wasn't taken seriously as a viable main event star. He was able to show from his success in TNA that not only can he be over and champ also that wwe may have drop the ball when it came to his singles stars push in his first tenure. In addition prove that he maybe more over as a face then as a heel.If the information about vince not thinking christian is a main event quality wrestler in the past is true, it will be tough to argee to that being true anymore. Im my opinion leave smackdown to edge put christian on raw I believe putting him on smackdown may overshadowed by edges return

 

[Neuntoter]

I would think that Vince has done well with Christian. Christian essentially has his own show. Every week he's on TV on ECW and has a match every week, and usually a promo too. While ECW isn't that high in the ratings, it's still got about as many viewers as TNA gets many weeks. This gives Christian a relatively high TV profile. He seems incredibly over with the fans, being cheered over Regal even in England and is one of the strongest (and currently longest reigning) champions in the WWE.

 

[bxbigshow]

I think Christian is doing well for himself in ECW. And if the previous 'rumors' were correct, then Vince had bigger plans for him when he initially returned.

Wasn't it 'suppose' to be Christian as the attacker of Jeff Hardy? But according to rumor Vince changed it because it got leaked. IF this was true then he would've been debuting in a high profile feud with Hardy and MAYBE he would've been in the IC Title hunt by now.

But because of the rumored switch he is king of ECW as the champ. And the ECW Title is probably on-par if not slightly above the IC/US belts.

 

[Leafy]

I don't think he hates Christian at all. He just sees what Christian really is, an average worker who excelled in the tag team division. I would think he likes Christian because how long has he had the ECW title? Like 4 months, technically a world title, this man is being made to look like a dominant champ.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

I think word got around from inside the Creative Team, and it was reported that ... and I quote "Vince cares more about his doormat at home than he does about Christian." There have been other reports that the Creative team had to fight tooth and nail just to get Christian into the Money in the Bank Ladder Match at Mania, because McMahon didn't want him in there.

So yes, Vince McMahon does indeed hate Christian. And one has to be blind not to see it. Well, put it this way, he clearly is not very fond of the guy.

He puts him on ECW. And for everyone saying "well, he is the Champion for that Brand." .....

... well, that is true, but it is a Developmental Brand, and that is exactly how Vince portrays that show. Don't complain to me ... I absolutely despise the concept of ECW being a Developmental Show. That is what FCW is supposed to be for. But not in Vince's eyes, I suppose.

So basically Christian is a "Developmental Champion".

And for the others that say that "Christian has an entire show revolved around him, so clearly Vince thinks highly of him."

Again, this is the WWE's least watched Brand. In the past, Superstars even came close to beating it on some weeks. What good is it to use Christian and make him your "Developmental Champion" of your least watched show?

Vince is smart enough to know that Christian has a small Internet following. Therefore, he uses that to his advantage as the "hook" to tune into the show and see the stars of tomorrow. And some feel as though that should be a great honor. But again, it really isn't.

Christian, in the very least should be on either Raw or Smackdown. I can understand concerns of him not being suitable for a WWE or World Championship run. I have seen him in matches against people like Batista and clearly there is a large size advantage ... and Christian doesn't look believable in the ring against guys like him. Same with Rey Mysterio, though.

So I would have to conclude that Christian is a better fit for the Intercontinental and US Titles. And if he was kept as a regular champion in those roles ... essentially he would be used to be training the "future Main Eventers of WWE" as they graduate into the Heavyweight Division. Guys like John Morrison, Jack Swagger, The Miz, etc. And training those who are selected as the future Main Eventers, in my view, is a far greater honor.

So does Vince hate Christian? Pretty much.

 

["Cool Guy" Jensen]

Vince McMahon hates Christian? I've heard that dozens of times over the past 12 months. The way I look at it is... we can't really find out if Vince does indeed "hate" Christian until after he leaves ECW. Since debuting on ECW, Christian has only spent about 6 or 7 weeks without the ECW Championship around his waist. That's a good sign... for now. He's had the most title defenses of any other current champion with 6, he's always showed that he can make a great champion, but wasn't exactly given enough of a chance.

We cannot find out Vince's "feelings" about Christian until he leaves ECW. If you are a big star like Christian, than I would think that it would be easier for you to succeed on ECW. That could be said for Christian. However, if Christian moves from ECW to Raw (Please, God... NO!) and manages to find even the least bit of succeed, then that should be just enough proof to show that Vince doesn't really hate Christian.

Christian's time on ECW has been just remarkable! So that could be the reason why some may think that Vince doesn't hate Christian. However, look at it this way... if Christian was not the face of ECW, do you think any one on the roster is as deserving as him to lead the brand? Shelton Benjamin? William Regal? Tommy Dreamer? Goldust? Zack Ryder? Vladimir Kozlov? The Hurricane? There aren't many people who are as capable to lead ECW than Christian.

So, as of right now... it does not seem that Vince McMahon hates Christian, however the wonderful treatment he is receiving on ECW could all change after he is switched. Especially to Raw.

 

[Kanye South]

I think word got around from inside the Creative Team, and it was reported that ... and I quote "Vince cares more about his doormat at home than he does about Christian." There have been other reports that the Creative team had to fight tooth and nail just to get Christian into the Money in the Bank Ladder Match at Mania, because McMahon didn't want him in there.

It was also once reported on a certain wrestling site (not WZ) that John Cena and Shawn Michaels had to have wild sex in front of Vince McMahon while he *********ed, just so they could main-event WrestleMania 23. Now we both know that HBK and Cena got to main event WM23 because of Triple H's injury and because they were the top stars on Raw at the time. My point is, you can't believe everything you read on the internet.

So yes, Vince McMahon does indeed hate Christian. And one has to be blind not to see it. Well, put it this way, he clearly is not very fond of the guy.

Yeah, because he's not world champion and getting constant screen and promo time.

He puts him on ECW. And for everyone saying "well, he is the Champion for that Brand." .....

It's true.

... well, that is true, but it is a Developmental Brand, and that is exactly how Vince portrays that show. Don't complain to me ... I absolutely despise the concept of ECW being a Developmental Show. That is what FCW is supposed to be for. But not in Vince's eyes, I suppose.

I'm tired of people acting like ECW is fucking OVW. Just because Cena or Undertaker isn't on the show, it's automatically a developmental brand? Just because it's only an hour? Please tell me why ECW is a developmental brand.

So basically Christian is a "Developmental Champion".

The last time I checked, Christian has never been an active competitor in FCW.

And for the others that say that "Christian has an entire show revolved around him, so clearly Vince thinks highly of him."

You're adressing me, apparently.

Again, this is the WWE's least watched Brand. In the past, Superstars even came close to beating it on some weeks. What good is it to use Christian and make him your "Developmental Champion" of your least watched show?

TNA is a less watched show than Raw. Does that make AJ Styles a less important champion than Melina?

Vince is smart enough to know that Christian has a small Internet following. Therefore, he uses that to his advantage as the "hook" to tune into the show and see the stars of tomorrow. And some feel as though that should be a great honor. But again, it really isn't.

Why would he try to hook people into seeing guys like Yoshi Tatsu and Zack Ryder, when the majority of his new young talent is on Raw and Smackdown? I'm sure the constant bitching about John Cena as Champ is a good indicator of who Vince should be worrying about "hooking" into the show.

Christian, in the very least should be on either Raw or Smackdown. I can understand concerns of him not being suitable for a WWE or World Championship run. I have seen him in matches against people like Batista and clearly there is a large size advantage ... and Christian doesn't look believable in the ring against guys like him. Same with Rey Mysterio, though.

It took Rey Mysterio four years to win his first World Title. After he flirted with success in WCW for years. The way I see it, Christian is in the same predicament. He was in WWE and TNA for a long time, and is now starting over, just like Rey-Rey did with WCW. Let's face it, he was never anything special before TNA. So now, he's getting a second chance and becoming more over with the crowd each week, just like Rey. The way I see it, Christian is getting a better deal, because in a year, after the draft, Christian will likely be a former World Heavyweight Champ, and all of the "Vince hatez Christianz" guys will feel very stupid.

So I would have to conclude that Christian is a better fit for the Intercontinental and US Titles. And if he was kept as a regular champion in those roles ... essentially he would be used to be training the "future Main Eventers of WWE" as they graduate into the Heavyweight Division. Guys like John Morrison, Jack Swagger, The Miz, etc. And training those who are selected as the future Main Eventers, in my view, is a far greater honor.

Training people to become main eventers is a far greater honor than becoming one yourself?

OK, I catch your drift now.

So does Vince hate Christian? Pretty much.[/QUOTE]

No. Not at all.

 

[Blade]

Yeah, he does hate Christian. It's been obvious ever since Edge and Christian broke up. Edge became a cool face upper midcarder, Christian became a comedic heel jobber. Yet Christian still managed to get over, so Vince had no choice but to bump him up to the midcard and give him a few bad IC title reigns. But by this time, Edge was on the verge of breaking into the main event. Now, I think Edge and Christian are pretty much the same in terms of talent. Both guys have lots of charisma, great mic skills and they can get the job done in the ring. But Vince liked Edge, so Edge became successful.

Now, I'm not sure why Christian was given that WWE title shot in mid 2005 against John Cena. I guess they needed someone for Cena to beat up before going into the next feud. But even when Christian got his title shot, Jericho was put in the match too. I'm thinking this was because Vince believed Christian wouldn't be able to pull off a good match.

And then when Christian left for TNA, Vince actually had an excuse to hate Christian, he became the traitor. If Christian had flopped in TNA, and gone back to WWE, I have no doubt he would've been made a jobber. But Christian learned how to become a main eventer in TNA, and he became a star and started getting a decent sized fan following.

So when Christian returned to WWE, Vince had to decide what to do with him. Christian was too big to become a jobber, he was a decent money maker. But Vince hated him too much to put him on one of the "main shows". So he became the face of ECW.

Now, obviously I'm just speculating. I don't know anything about Vince or Christian. And unlike many people, I'm not gonna pretend I do. But what I said makes sense. It makes much more sense that Christian is on ECW because Vince doesn't like him rather than Christian is on ECW to train the young guys or whatever.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I have no idea whether Vince hates Christian or not, but I think he's placed him exactly where he should be...... in the middle.

People generally only understand extremes: the very best as opposed to the very worst........the top guys vs. bottom guys. We understand the performers at the elite level and we understand the jobbers. It's the 'tweeners that folks have a hard time getting a handle on. We shout: "Why isn't this guy a star?" or "How come this guy is a star?"

It's no disgrace to be a 'tweener. It's steady employment and a way to shine (or flop) once in a while. Christian surely understood where he would be placed when he returned from TNA. I think he would have been a 'tweener whether Vince hated him or not.

I imagine that some of the 'tweeners have a problem with their status. A guy like Carlito seemed to think he belonged at the top and has shown the desire and work ethic of a paper napkin after he wasn't elevated.

Then, there are guys like Koslov; the company tried to push him to the top to see if he would catch on.....when he didn't, he went to the middle, and I wouldn't be surprised if he knew all along that's where he belonged. (What was he gonna do.... refuse the push when it was offered?)

If you read wrestling forums, you get the notion that Vince McMahon spends most of his time in a state of rage. (Clinically speaking, a man his age shouldn't indulge in that too often). Even so, he's proven to be a bigger person than I would be if I were in charge; taking back people who (he feels) betrayed him. I never thought we would see guys like Scott Hall and Kevin Nash back in WWE, but it happened.

Christian fits in this category, too. Vince may (or may not) hate him because he defected to TNA, but I honestly believe it's made no difference in how Christian has been used since he returned.

 

[Alex]

Vince may not like Christian that much, but he doesn't hate him, If he hated him he'd have buried him like anything, regardless of his following. Vince will give Christian a WWE or WHC reign when Christian is MEGA popular. (and he seems to be on the way now) So long as money is going into Vince's pocket he doesn't mind to much who's champ

 

[Suneeboy]

Hate is a very strong word, and to say Vince "hates" Christian just sounds ridiculous to me. You have to take everything into context here. Christian was gone for 3 years, and then made his return to the WWE with all of us expecting him to be Jeff Hardy's assailant. Think of how far that would have went for the Christian character?

• He would've been a heel, and he would've been working 2nd fiddle to Edge who would've had the title. Would've been much harder for him to get over as a legit main eventer as a heel, especially with the way the WWE books heels nowadays.

• Think of how many main events he would've been in. He is too big for the IC Title or the US Title, unless he's feuding with guys like Jericho or Mysterio for it.

• Where would he have went storyline wise after feuding with Hardy throughout the Rumble into 'Mania. Where would that have left him? No where. Probably drafted to RAW and into the mid card.

ECW isn't a developmental brand. ECW is the proving grounds for the WWE. There is a difference. Last I checked the true shining young stars were on Smackdown and RAW. Developmental is OVW, FCW or wherever they are training people. Christian with 2 strong title runs now will have a legitimate claim at the main event when he goes to RAW or Smackdown and will be a believable contender. Previously, he would not have been. I dislike a lot of what Vince and the WWE creative team does, but putting Christian on ECW was a very smart move and will ultimately benefit the Christian character in the long run. Let's hope this draft sees him on one of the bigger shows.

 

[VKO]

Christian is being booked very strongly on ECW right now. Thus I can't see why one would think Christian is hated by management in WWE. I've never read any reports of this so I chuck them up to being rumors. Christian is being tested out on ECW right now until he is ready to be moved up to Raw or Smackdown.

 

[Unrated Superstar]

Yeah, he does hate Christian. It's been obvious ever since Edge and Christian broke up. Edge became a cool face upper midcarder, Christian became a comedic heel jobber. Yet Christian still managed to get over, so Vince had no choice but to bump him up to the midcard and give him a few bad IC title reigns. But by this time, Edge was on the verge of breaking into the main event. Now, I think Edge and Christian are pretty much the same in terms of talent. Both guys have lots of charisma, great mic skills and they can get the job done in the ring. But Vince liked Edge, so Edge became successful.

I'm quoting this post because it kinda stood out to me on a number of points that I'd like to address...and Lord Sidious's post was already picked apart by JKO. First off, just because Christian didn't go as far as Edge after their split doesn't mean Vince hates him. Ok, maybe he didn't see as much potential in Christian at the time. I've already conceded the point in my initial post to start this thread that Vince McMahon may not have seen a lot in Christian in the past, but that's why the title of this thread is "Vince McMahon does not hate Christian", and not "Vince McMahon didn't hate Christian". Not that I think he hated him then either, because like someone else mentioned, hate is a strong word. But my guess would be that Vince sees a lot more in Christian now than he saw in him years ago.

Now, I'm not sure why Christian was given that WWE title shot in mid 2005 against John Cena. I guess they needed someone for Cena to beat up before going into the next feud. But even when Christian got his title shot, Jericho was put in the match too. I'm thinking this was because Vince believed Christian wouldn't be able to pull off a good match.

No way. This had nothing to do with Christian's ability to pull off a good match. It was never the original plan for Christian to get a one-on-one title match with John Cena. I believe the same night we found out Christian was the number one contender, they put Chris Jericho in the match. I think the match was mostly a way build up Cena's feud with Jericho before they had a one-on-one match at Summerslam. It could even be argued that it also served as a way of testing Christian out in a main event environment a bit at the same time. Of course in the storyline it was supposed to originally supposed to be a one-on-one match between Christian and Cena, but you've gotta remember that these things are planned ahead of time.

And then when Christian left for TNA, Vince actually had an excuse to hate Christian, he became the traitor. If Christian had flopped in TNA, and gone back to WWE, I have no doubt he would've been made a jobber. But Christian learned how to become a main eventer in TNA, and he became a star and started getting a decent sized fan following.

So when Christian returned to WWE, Vince had to decide what to do with him. Christian was too big to become a jobber, he was a decent money maker. But Vince hated him too much to put him on one of the "main shows". So he became the face of ECW.

That's right, Vince saw that he was too big to become a jobber. But "hated him too much" to put him on one of the main shows? Ever think maybe Vince McMahon just might rather have Christian succeed so he can make money off of him than have him fail by going directly to one of the main shows where he wouldn't have been ready to flourish? And when I say "wouldn't have been ready," I mean the combination of him being away for a while and not having been a main eventer before he left. You know, things that are reasonable as opposed to Vince just hating him because he feels like it.

Now, obviously I'm just speculating. I don't know anything about Vince or Christian. And unlike many people, I'm not gonna pretend I do. But what I said makes sense. It makes much more sense that Christian is on ECW because Vince doesn't like him rather than Christian is on ECW to train the young guys or whatever.

I don't think Christian's sole purpose on ECW is to train the young guys. But I sure has hell don't think he's there because Vince doesn't like him either. Of course I don't know Vince either, but Vince simply didn't have to resign him if he really didn't like him. You mentioned his decent sized fan following, but Vince McMahon doesn't have to sign someone he doesn't like just because fans like the guy. And like I said, the way he's been booked so far has been pretty stellar and I highly doubt it's just some trick so Vince can humilate the "TNA traitor" down the road. WWE has invested too much time and effort in Christian. It may "just be ECW", but last time I checked, ECW still had a televised weekly show that Vince wants people to watch.

Jensen made the point that we won't really know about Vince hating Christian until after he gets moved. I see what you're saying about that, as we don't know how things will pan out for him in the long-run until then. But if you think about it, he's already been booked strong, and like I said, the victory over Chris Jericho was huge in my opinion. So I think we know enough already to at least support the title of this thread. I maintain that based on what I've seen, Vince simply doesn't hate Christian.

 

[Crush1]

Hate is a strong word my friend and in Christian's case it doesn't apply. Maybe Vince isn't fond of the guy but it doesnt mean that we should all go scream that Christian isn't getting fair treatment. After all the guy is the ECW champion. Some may like it and others don't, but hey what do you expect? he's been absent for quite a while from the WWE and needs time to reclaim his spot.

I do agree on the fact that Christian's reign on ECW has been dragged out for too long. But I'd rather have him remain there then for creative to move him to another brand, while having nothing ''creative'' to back it up. And in the end the wrestler ends up getting burried in the midcard, i.e Evan Bourne, MVP, Carlito, Masters etc. I also agree on the overall message of you're post. Mcmahon is a strange guy and in these times he's bet on creating problems for up and comers. So I think he should remain at the level he's at for a little while and then move out of it.

 

[stygimoloch]

So Christian draws less than Edge? Sorry, but duh.

Edge is one of the best in the business right now. That's not a slight on Christian; most people draw less than Edge. Christian may be on the third brand, but he's being booked as being far and away the number one on that brand. I don't see him as being punished in the slightest. He looks incredibly strong right now.