Victims of Circumstance?

[Thriller Ant]

So, in case you have been living under a rock for the last couple days, you know the Mr. Kennedy...Kennedy has been released. I was never a huge fan of his, but I am sad to see a guy who did seem to have potential leave the company. But, to be honest, he was probably screwed from the start.

I'm not that good with my recent wrestling history, but I've always operated under the influence that Vince McMahon was one of the kingpins in getting steroids all over pro wrestling. He wanted guys to be bigger and bigger, and this is how it ended up happening. Pretty soon, steroids were everywhere, and the government stepped in and tried to at least slow it down if not stop it. (If I am wrong on any of this, please call me out and I will be sure to fix it asap)

What does this have to do with Kennedy? As most of you know, Kennedy was suspended in 2007 for using steroids. He has also admitted in interviews that he used them in the indies to get about 10 more pounds of muscle (thanks Wikipedia). He claims that he stopped juicing around the time he joined WWE so he wouldn't be suspended, which, by the timing of his shipments, was a lie. What this tells me is that he stopped for a while after he joined WWE, but suffered his first injury soon after his debut. He continued off steroids, but again got injured, this time losing the MITB case. The time he was off for this injury is the time that he was found to have been receiving steroid shipments. He got suspended, presumably stopped again, and had injury after injury. As was pointed out in the main release thread, guys who take steroids then stop often leave their bodies weaker than they were before. If this is true, then Kennedy is the poster child.

The point I'm trying to make here is Kennedy (and to much, much greater extent, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Test, and the rest R.I.P), while being dumb enough to risk their lives and careers by taking these substances, also could be considered victims of the steroid laced world that Vince McMahon created.

So, without spamming of course, tell me what you think. Are these men victims of the circumstances in their industry or not?

 

[jokeboy624]

I would say absolutely not. Let me ask, all opinions aside, is CM Punk over with the crowd? Or at least was he? I have read some places that the crowds for whatever reason are souring on him and I don't get to watch Smackdown as often as I'd like. My point is that Punk neither looks nor acts like he takes steroids and is still over. It is also my opinion that Kennedy had the charisma and mic skills to get himself over without looking overly muscular. This to me means he didn't "need" to take them to bulk up and was therefore completely laid on his shoulders.

I do understand that some people take them to heal faster or to avoid injury. Again these things can be done through better training and fitness regimens. I understand also that genetics plays a large part in a person's body and thus the ability to withstand the violence of wrestling, but come on. Do the work and don't take shortcuts, you're better off in the long run, clearly. Anyways, I say, no they are not victims of circumstance because it is and always was their decision to do steroids. Based solely on what I've heard and read there are plenty of people who have made it without, so the decision is all on their shoulders as much as I may love or hate the individuals you mention.

 

[HHH19KK]

IDK about the whole government stepping in fact but as mare as the men that used steroids and they payed for it with their lives Vince already puts pressure on the the entire roster to perform at a high standard and these guys thought that alone they couldn't meet those standards so they used steroids so yea its not cuz vince pushes for steroids but he pushes the superstars to perform and thats why they basically in their mind have no choice but turn to steroids

 

[HartAttack]

I think part of the problem is that Vince has always had a man-love for these big, mammoth men, and that pressures some guys to take steroids. Not that CM Punk would be as big as The Great Khali or something, but they would be big-ger, and thus appease more to the McMahons.

I remember the main reason Christian got released was because Vince thought he was too lean and didn't like his figure, totally ignoring the fact that he's a good wrestler and great on the mic.

It's one reason why the WWE product has turned to crap the last couple years. Too many big men lead to too many awful matches.

 

[HHH19KK]

I would say absolutely not. Let me ask, all opinions aside, is CM Punk over with the crowd? Or at least was he? I have read some places that the crowds for whatever reason are souring on him and I don't get to watch Smackdown as often as I'd like. My point is that Punk neither looks nor acts like he takes steroids and is still over. It is also my opinion that Kennedy had the charisma and mic skills to get himself over without looking overly muscular. This to me means he didn't "need" to take them to bulk up and was therefore completely laid on his shoulders.

Yea true that punk doesnt do steroids and he is over, but for some people they can mentally do it alone and some cant. Unfortunealy for kennedy he wasnt mentally strong or he wouldnt have the need to do steroids

 

[jokeboy624]

I agree that some aren't mentally strong enough to do it with sheer will and hard work, but the blame should be put squarely on their shoulders and no one else's. Unless we get pictures tomorrow of McMahon handing steroids to , or even injecting Mr. Kennedy himself I can't see how anyone can place the blame on him.

And it's true that McMahon thinks the body builder type sells best, but love or hate him, Rey is a big part of the money making machine in the WWE. Christian is the ECW champ, Edge is the World (or WWE, I forget) champ. These guys are not on steroids, at least, I think it's pretty safe to say they aren't. Enough people do it that "Vinnie loves the big men" isn't a valid argument anymore. I believe it's sheer laziness.

 

[HartAttack]

I agree that some aren't mentally strong enough to do it with sheer will and hard work, but the blame should be put squarely on their shoulders and no one else's. Unless we get pictures tomorrow of McMahon handing steroids to , or even injecting Mr. Kennedy himself I can't see how anyone can place the blame on him.

And it's true that McMahon thinks the body builder type sells best, but love or hate him, Rey is a big part of the money making machine in the WWE. Christian is the ECW champ, Edge is the World (or WWE, I forget) champ. These guys are not on steroids, at least, I think it's pretty safe to say they aren't. Enough people do it that "Vinnie loves the big men" isn't a valid argument anymore. I believe it's sheer laziness.

Well, I think for awhile it was very, very true. I don't disagree that using it now is weak, but guys like Khali and Batista are just boring and don't have very good matches. Part of wrestling is watching matches. Would you rather watch Batista wrestle/feud with the Big Show, or Shawn Michaels take on Chris Jericho?

I won't say ALL, but most of the big men have no charisma, no personality, and no wrestling ability, and it contributes to a stale product.

 

[HHH19KK]

Oh no its not Vince to blame for superstars to turn to steroids. Its the fact that the machine is only for the mentally strong. Yes some of the greatest world champs were not that big (HBK, Edge, Rey, Jericho). Its all about how much u want to be the top dog and if your willing to work for it the hard way. If your not ment to be big, then dont sweat about it work with your natural abilities and you will get what u want

 

[Pepper Wadman]

I remember the main reason Christian got released was because Vince thought he was too lean and didn't like his figure, totally ignoring the fact that he's a good wrestler and great on the mic.

This ^^^ never happened. I'm not a Vince fanboy but it's been stated (several times even on this site if I'm not wrong) that Christian was offered a contract negotiation and decided before his was even up, that he was going to TNA.

I hate when people bash Vince just for the sake of it.

Personally, I think he's insane but to go out of your way with rumours is asinine.

Rest of your post though, I have to agree on. BTW I did not intend to sound like I was bashing you. This is my first post and don't want to piss anyone off. Just stating my opinion.

 

[HartAttack]

This ^^^ never happened. I'm not a Vince fanboy but it's been stated (several times even on this site if I'm not wrong) that Christian was offered a contract negotiation and decided before his was even up, that he was going to TNA.

I hate when people bash Vince just for the sake of it.

Personally, I think he's insane but to go out of your way with rumours is asinine.

Rest of your post though, I have to agree on. BTW I did not intend to sound like I was bashing you. This is my first post and don't want to piss anyone off. Just stating my opinion.

It's ok. I thought that it was correct. I wouldn't post something I didn't think was true. I can't remember for the life of me where I saw that, but I thought it was legit. If it's bogus, then I apologize.

I don't go out of my way to bash Vince. I have done it only on the issue of getting too obsessed with the big man stuff. But that's been beaten to death already.

Regarding the Christian stuff, even if Vince did offer him a new contract, it still wouldn't surprise if what I said was true. I always got the impression anyway, that he really didn't care for Christian, and I thought Christian himself said one of the reasons he left was the fact he never got pushed as much as he liked.

 

[Spunky]

I think part of the problem is that Vince has always had a man-love for these big, mammoth men, and that pressures some guys to take steroids. Not that CM Punk would be as big as The Great Khali or something, but they would be big-ger, and thus appease more to the McMahons.

I remember the main reason Christian got released was because Vince thought he was too lean and didn't like his figure, totally ignoring the fact that he's a good wrestler and great on the mic.

It's one reason why the WWE product has turned to crap the last couple years. Too many big men lead to too many awful matches.

I heard an interview that at the time of Christian's departure, Vince couldn't promise him a World Heavyweight Championship shot, Nor would Vince give him first class travel expensives, Even though Vince told Christian he was going to bleed him into the main event. (Like the triple threat matches, He, Jericho, And Cena had, When Cena first joined Raw, And lead to Jericho being fired). He was slated to win the "Smackdown" title they was going to create, Before they decided to ship over Batista.

 

[jus2sik]

I agree that some aren't mentally strong enough to do it with sheer will and hard work, but the blame should be put squarely on their shoulders and no one else's. Unless we get pictures tomorrow of McMahon handing steroids to , or even injecting Mr. Kennedy himself I can't see how anyone can place the blame on him.

And it's true that McMahon thinks the body builder type sells best, but love or hate him, Rey is a big part of the money making machine in the WWE. Christian is the ECW champ, Edge is the World (or WWE, I forget) champ. These guys are not on steroids, at least, I think it's pretty safe to say they aren't. Enough people do it that "Vinnie loves the big men" isn't a valid argument anymore. I believe it's sheer laziness.

im pretty sure edge and rey rey got busted for steroids a couple years ago, although rey was injured at the time so we didnt see a suspension

 

[jokeboy624]

im pretty sure edge and rey rey got busted for steroids a couple years ago, although rey was injured at the time so we didnt see a suspension

I don't recall that, but I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'll have to do more research, but if Rey was doing while injured it very well could have been prescribed by a legitimate doctor. That would hardly count as someone doing them to get ahead of the game or because they felt Vince or the business pressured them into it. It's still a decision that rests solely on the person taking the drugs. If documentation comes to light showing that Vince made these guys sign a contract saying they have to take steroids, then yes, part of the blame could be put on him and the business, but not until such a document is shown to exist. Still not Victims of Circumstance.

 

[JenovasWitness]

It's true, the wrestling business is hard on performers. This is an image based business where, as Triple H said in the first season of Tough Enough, wrestlers tell a story in the ring with their bodies. A wrestler's body is one of the first things that is noticed by wrestling fans as he goes to the ring, even before he locks up with his opponent. Sometimes, all a wrestler needs to become popular is a great body and a little bit of charisma eg. the Ultimate Warrior. (This is not to say that I liked the Ultimate Warrior, but it cannot be denied that he was incredibly popular in his first run in the WWE.)

So it can be concluded that there is a great deal of pressure on performers to look their best and one of the ways to accomplish this quickly is to utilize steroids. Now, is this Vince's fault? True, he owns the company that these performers are contracted to and yes, he is the man who makes the decisions about who will be pushed and how things are run...but each wrestler is an independent contractor. This means that they were free to CHOOSE how to conduct themselves, what to eat, drink or inject themselves with.

Heath Ledger died from prescription medications allegedly due to the time he spent researching his role for the Joker. Who is to blame in this situation? If we hold the people in charge of the movie such as the director, the producer, etc. should they not be standing trial for murder? No. Heath, very unfortunately, made some bad choices in his life that took him down a road he should not have gone down until much later in his life. We were robbed of a great performer who dazzled us with his performances.

Sounds familiar, I know. I still miss Eddie Guerrero. Gone too soon.

 

[Razor]

More excuses for Kennedy.

McMahon never pushed steroids on people, from what I've gathered. Sure, he may like to push big men more. Case in point: Batista and Cena. But he's pushing Kofi Kingston. Matt and Jeff Hardy. Edge. Umaga. They aren't incredibly huge, nor are Ted Dibiase or Cody Rhodes.

He may not say "No," and he may do everything but say "DO IT," but even if he did it still would not be Vince's fault. Kennedy is the one who took those steroids. Kennedy is the one who chose to continue to take them even after the steroid busts were made obvious (Even if they were prescribed by a doctor, he could have gotten a medical waver under the Wellness Policy. He didn't, so they weren't legit). That, and he's the one who can't work a match without almost injuring someone or himself.

Kennedy is the one who came back from a 10 month injury and almost injured not only his wrist, but the WWE Champion's already vulnerable shoulder. If he took steroids before or not, it doesn't matter. If you're proven a consistent danger to yourself and fellow workers, you deserve to lose your job.